Agreed. I think the GN color is lighter. Sky blue, or to put it into another way, Carolina Tar Heel Blue.
Regarding the EL box car, this is from the Greenberg Guide (red cover):
9726 Erie Lackawanna
a) shiny blue-painted blue body
b) lighter shiny blue-painted blue body
Here is the NW GP-9 from 1977.
By 1975/76 MPC switched from their more delicate and realistic side rails to the stamped metal side rails that were used in the PW era. Collectors applauded the move, even though the bulky stamped rails were not realistic. This was one of a number of exmaples where MPC had to deal with the fickle whims of collectors.
Here is the NW GP-9 from 1977.
By 1975/76 MPC switched from their more delicate and realistic side rails to the stamped metal side rails that were used in the PW era. Collectors applauded the move, even though the bulky stamped rails were not realistic. This was one of a number of exmaples where MPC had to deal with the fickle whims of collectors.
Personally, I think the PW style handrails look MUCH better and I AM familiar with the prototype.
CW, My Greenberg book lists the 8351 blue and silver Alco (5th row, left) as part of the 1383 set and also an uncataloged Sears set. It is somewhat hard to find.
The 8020 blue and silver variant (2nd row, left) is listed as probably part of a department store special. The particular store is not named.
The all blue Santa Fe with the yellow stripes (2nd row, right) is numbered 8022. It is also uncataloged, but was made for J.C.Penny. There are a quite number of variants for this unit, one of which did command a significantly greater price a number of years ago. Whether or not that is still true, I do not know.
Chris
LVHR
Here is a couple of more of my mpc coal hopper loaded with woodchips these were made back in the 70's
Ed,
No doubt about it -- that is indeed a blue and silver 8020 Santa Fe Alco in the Greenberg photo, and its existence has been a thorn in my side for a long time. It's either a prototype or a factory error, but given the nature of other items in that particular collection, it's likely the former. I've been looking for that particular piece (or one just like it!) for at least 15 years, but the trail goes cold in the mid- to late 1980s.
I think everyone has figured-out the other Santa Fe Alcos, but here's the quick run-down:
8020 Santa Fe: "Warbonnet" red and silver. Offered three different ways -- A-A pair, A-B pair and as a single A. CW, the single A's came in the 6-1193 Sears set in 1971 and the 6-1292 Sears set in 1972. As you mentioned, variations exist with pilots (solid or open), windshields (clear or natural), number boards (solid or separate boards), location of the MPC builder's plate, etc.
8022 Santa Fe: solid blue and yellow. The only official offerings of this piece were a single A in the 6-1195 JCPenney set in 1971, in addition to being offered separately by Penneys in a very scarce mailer box. However, there are at least three packaging variations (two different boxes for single A's and one for an A-A pair) and given the myriad variations of the piece itself (at least four major ones), it had to have been offered some other way. There's a lot of bad information out there on this one, and unfortunately, I think there's more to the story that we don't know.
8351 Santa Fe: "Warbonnet" blue and silver. Primarily available in the cataloged 6-1383 Santa Fe Freight sets, but was also available in the 6-1393/1394 Sears sets in 1973 and 1974. Lastly, Sears offered the unit separately 1974, packaged in a very scarce mailer box.
Oddballs:
For some reason, Lionel experimented with sprayed versus hot stamped lettering on a few of the 8020's. Apparently, only 100 pieces were produced. Very strange.
Here's an 8022 stamped for 8020.
Oops.
Enjoy!
Todd
I have a quick question with regards to the drumheads and decals that came with the "Baby Madison" Cars.
I know that the observation car for the first Milwaukee set came with a plastic drumhead (to fit into the black observation railing) and a George Washington decal.
I also know the similar drumheads and decals came with the Blue Comet, Chessie and Chicago & Alton sets.
But did similar items come with the Pennsylvania (1974), Baltimore & Ohio (1975) and/or Southern Crescent (1977) sets?
Thanks!
Todd
I have the Southern & the Pennsy sets w/ original boxes & I don't recall there being a drumhead with them, while the Milw & Alton sets (which I also have w/ the original boxes) the drumheads were either in the box or on the car when I bought them
I can only speak to the Presidential Campaign Cars which did!
Jon 
Guys - thanks for getting back with me!
Christopher - What particularly confuses me about the Southern Crescent set is that a part number for the drumhead was assigned - 9531-22 - but I'm beginning to think it was never used. (9531 is the combo car - go figure.)
Jon - I forgot about the Campaign Cars when I typed my note, and you're right - all three had drumheads. These three cars were really an ingenious use of leftover inventory!
Does anyone else have the Pennsylvania (1974), Baltimore & Ohio (1975) and/or Southern Crescent (1977) "Baby Madison" cars that can check to see if the observation cars have drumheads?
Thanks!
Todd
I used to have the Broadway Limited set, and it did not come with a drumhead. I used a PRR tie-tack instead, and it looked great!
Jon
I have the 8020,it seems to run faster in reverse than forward.Any ideas why?The bearings,wheels and gears all seem fine.
If everything else is fine it is probably the armature timing biased more toward that direction. When I used to race slot cars we would turn the commutator forward in relation to the poles to get more power and rpm forward but they ran slow in reverse, did not matter we only go forward, only problem was advanced timing made them run hotter, in your case this is good as long as it will pull a train, should run cooler. As long as the motor does not get hot and the brushes are not sparking, you are fine. I assume you checked you brush springs, brushes, and armature end play.
The first think I would look at is the brushes. When an engine is run in the same direction for a long time, the brush gets worn at an angle where it touches the commutator, and this seems to interfere with proper operation. I use some 600 grit sandpaper to square them up again and clean them thoroughly (mineral spirits or 90% alcohol) before reinstalling them. Take the opportunity to clean the copper commutator surface and remove any gunk from the slots in it while you are at it.
I had forgotten all about this engine until I saw this post. I bought it around 1975, but I don't remember where. I hasn't been run in about 25 or more years.
Hi Todd!
I have the 1487 Broadway Limited from 1974 & it never came with a Drumhead for the Observation Car. I recieved it new in 1974 for Christmas as a 10 year old too.
Christmas shopping, 1975 or 6. Grandma and Grandpa take me to Northwest Plaza in St. Louis County to buy my Christmas present, a new train. Both Sears and Pennys carried trains. 3 or 4 years earlier, they had got me a Sears Special set with the 8020 and a selection of cars including the dark blue 9010 GN hopper.
At Sears, not much is left on the shelves, except in a display case I spot a pair of blue warbonnet Alcos, an AA pair with one solid apron and one open. I note that, despite the color, they are Santa Fe, "just like mine at home." $25. I told Grandpa I wanted them. he said, "No, we're here to get you a whole train."
We ended up at Pennys getting a Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choo (that didn't run, nor did its first replacement) that misled me to a decade's disasterous flirtation with HO.
I still wish I had gotten that AA pair! Almost everybody tells me they must have been the D&H, but I remain convinced they were Santa Fe.
Just received an 8516 tonight. It runs and smokes very well. This was made in 1985, so it must be one of the last MPC era steamers.
My latest MPC acquisition. M&StL GP-9 to lead the 1978 Lionel Service Station Set.
Here is another fun and bright MPC train the 8303pulling a.Mixed MPC consist 
The PRR MPC Baby HW does NOT have a palce for a drumhead.
The ATSF did have 'bluebonnets". The blue replaced the red when the SF took their passenger EMD F units and placed them into freight service. Every so often, they did end up as power of the CHI-HOU Amtrak train.
Also, some F had yellow replaced for the red.
W/WBB has done the blue and yellow. MTH has done the yellow in RR.
Some more MPC era gems.
The lake Shore Limited Set from 1976 and 1977 marked the first use of the 2400 series small streamlined cars by the folks in Mt. Clemens....
I think these came first:
In this set:
Juts to clarify the Lake Shore Limited was the first regular production use of the 2400 molds.
In 1975 a special set was made for the TCA using a pre-production version of these cars.
You can tell the difference as the door windows were left open on these TCA cars.
The '76 and '77 Amtrak cars, like most of the modern era uses of these cars after have
what was the door window left closed. Special production runs aside.
These small streamlined cars did not see the light of day that much during the MPC era, as MPC tended to favor using the 9500 "baby madison" cars.
Another MPC era use of these cars is the Quick Silver Express set from the early 80's.
Ken
The '76 and '77 Amtrak cars, like most of the modern era uses of these cars after have what was the door window left closed...
The TCA cars were completely different from anything made since.
They are identical to regular postwar production cars - open vestibules, full metal frames and floors, die cast trucks and couplers, roofs held with the "ventilator" thumbscrews, etc. Lionel vowed never to make them this way again, and so far they have not since the TCA set was announced in 1973-74.
The "infamous" 8206 made from 1972 to 1975
Early examples suffer from wheel wobble, but many run fine.
This is a case where you are better buying this engine where you can test it.
I like the Baldwin drivers they used for this engine. Mine did suffer from the wheel wobble when I bought it, but my LHS pretty much fixed that for me. I just gave it a tune up about a month ago & she runs soooo smooth. The SoS quit working, but the whistle still works.
Why was that?
So it would truly be an exclusive, one time, last time offer to increase interest.
Williams, however, has built them this way.
Another interesting MPC release was the Texas and Pacific, Quicksilver passenger set from 1982 and 1983.
This set marked only the 3rd time that MPC used the 2400 series cars in a regular production run. The first was the Amtrak Lake Shore Limited set from 1976/77 and the second was (3) additional Amtrak cars from 1977.
The T & P Quicksilver Alco was the only Alco made between 1980 and 1986, and is VERY different from the Alco's released by MPC during the 70's. This alco has a DC can motor mounted in the power truck with the bridge rectifier making it operational on both AC and DC power, it also has an 3 position electronic reverse board mounted on a piece of foam board. The 70's alcos all had a pullmor motor, and most have a traditional 2 position e unit (the SP and later CN have a 3 position reverse).
Kudos to MPC for modeling a road not often seen in 0 gauge.
glad to see this thread updated!
Dave
Here are a couple of my 8003 Berkshire that I have had since new. I have the complete set but here it is shown pulling a B&O consist. My parents gave me this set for Christmas after we road the Chessie Steam Special the year before.
Here is one you dont see for sale very often, a 1971 SSS set. This one has the separate sale dummy also. Wish I saw this one before it ended. Great deal for $156.
I saw that last night too. I already have everything in the set except the set box, and I don't collect boxes, but it was certainly worth more than $166 with shipping!
Nice! What a deal!
Bump!
Hey, any of you MPC guys going up to York next week looking for anything? I've got a rather large collection of MPC era rolling stock, engines, and such that are in fantastic shape. If anyone is interested, I made a basic little inventory list website I can direct you to. I'll be going up to York next week, so I can bring whatever you'd like me to.
-J
With my companies annual Christmas break on, I finally have some time "train time", and time to run my MPC purchases from the past 1/2 year, or so.
First up is the CNW GP 8375 from 1983.
This was one the first MPC geeps with dual motors and the then new electronic
reverse unit.
Second is the handsome ACL 8006 from 1980, this was a JC Penney exclusive.
These units derived from the 646/2046 tolling have magnetraction and are pretty bullet proof.
A surprise was finding the 2125 whistle shed from 1971. This was cobbled together at the Hillside plant with leftover PW parts, and was only mad that 1 year.
The B & O Capitol Limited set was another great buy. The small atlantic steam engines were made from re-worked PW 2037/2029 tooling. The passenger cars, 2nd in the 9500 series were some of the best looking of that era.
KRA - You have nice equipment and took interesting shots of it.
I was trying to decide which engine to run on the "Under the Christmas Tree Layout" this afternoon and decided on my MPC 8002 UP Berkshire. What a coincidence to see this thread pop up now!
It's 32 years old and still running very well.
John Knapp
Erie, not Eerie
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