MTH Crossing Gate - Help Needed

Hi Guys - a few years ago I received much help from FM on wiring MTH crossing gates using a relay. Since then we moved and I am setting up my layout again. My problem? I lost the wiring diagram I made for the crossing gates. I already did a search and reviewed my previous posts regarding the gate wiring. The only problem I have - I can't find where to connect the red and black wires coming from the gate (see diagram). Here are 2 questions I have:
1. Where do I connect the red and black wires coming from the gate?
2. If I run 2 parallel tracks (see diagram of track A & B) and add another gate where do I run the common wire from the outside rail of track B?? (my thought was to "piggyback it to where the common wire is connected from track A OR run a common wire from the outside rail of track B to the outside rail of track A). My goal is that whenever a train passes on track A or B the 2 gates would operate.
3. Are the wires that show in the diagram connected correctly??
Always appreciate your help!


PaulDSCN0648

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

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Thanx John - I did have the red and black connected to power and ground but they didn't work.  I'm pretty sure the wiring I have is correct - I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the gates themselves.  I'm also thinking that maybe the track isn't insulated correctly.  I have isolated block set up and power going to each block.  I do have a common (ground) going to each block and I have "crossed grounded" both rails.  Anyway, I do appreciate your feedback and help!!  Thanx again -

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

Well to help on this, since there is another topic going I just replied to, which is about the gates not raising, well with what your mentioning here, look on the forum and contact STAN2004, he helped me on diagrams with knowing how to use relays and insulated rail to make a crossing gate work. If you look at this topic - you'll find STAN's reply being the 2nd one down from the top - https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...04#77311805194143104    and also to help, here's another topic he replied to - https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...es-and-signal?page=1      And to also help, here's a diagram he sent me early last year and I still had it saved.

azatrax%20mrapr-8%20with%20mth%20crossing%20gates

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John/Tom - OK - just checked my wiring again and it seems to be wired correctly (as per your diagram).  My guess is that it is the insulated track section that is the problem.  I have feeder wires going to the track with a hot to the center rail and a common (ground) going to the outer rail THEN I have a wire connected to both outer rails (to ground both rails).  I'm going to try insulating both outer rails tomorrow and see if that works - (don't have an ohm meter). 

Thanx again - 

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

John H posted:

The wire from the insulated rail goes to the relay. The insulated rail should have no connection to the other outside rail.

Thanx, John - my insulated rail has no connections to the other outside rail - going to spend the day in the basement working on this - thanx again!

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

OK - this morning I rechecked the insulated track - no problems there.  I disconnected wires going from gates to the relay and power.  I tested them using MikeCT's illustration by touching the hot and ground to the rails and then touching white to blue wire and yellow to blue wire - gates worked with no problem.  I am now thinking it may be a bad relay - although it was working fine on my old layout.  Oh well, to my LHS to buy a new one - 

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

You should hear the relay "click" when you activate it (roll a car or whatever across the insulated-rail trigger section).  Then "click" again when you de-activate it.  Can be faint so you might need to put you ear right up to it and turn down the train volume if those are going.  All this seeing as you don't have a meter that is.

For the record, what exactly is the part number of your relay?  I think I know what it is based on your diagram but might as well let us know.  I was going to suggest swapping the white and yellow connections to the relay (for the purposes of testing the relay) but this would typically require soldering which can be a bother.

How are the relay and gates powered? Just run a car over the insulated track. You should be able to hear the relay click, for starters. No click, use something with a light and hook it up the same as the relay coil and try the car again. 

John

Located in the real Upstate NY

I know the track is properly insulated and I know all connections are correct.  When train moves over insulated track there is no sound from relay and no action on gates.  The drawing in my first post is how the relay is wired - I have the red and black wires coming from the gate wired to my terminal block (AC power).  Pretty sure it's the relay!

Thanx for all your help

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

OK John - before I do that I have a question or three:  1) should I leave the power & ground coming from the gate connected to the bus?  2)  should I leave the insulated track ground wire connected to the relay?  3) should I leave the power wire connected to the bus & relay?

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

stan2004 posted:
Harleylito posted:

before I travel 40 miles to buy a new relay...

40 miles of winter driving.  
Many mail-order sources of course but after including shipping costs, if you "do" eBay, item number: 232611175804, US seller:
 
nte 12v ac dpdt relay
 
 
 

Thanx, Stan - I appreciate you taking the time to help me - if I need one I'll order from the bay

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

Your accessory voltage is 12 volts, be sure to check.  You also need a connection from accessory common to track common to make the relay work,  if you are using a separate 12vac accessory transformer.  Multiple voltage outputs on larger transformer usually have a common connection already done internally.  

John H posted:

Paul, I would just undo the power and insulated ground to the relay. If no action with the separate hookup, the relay isn’ Working. 

OK - the relay clicks when I apply separate hookup - so the relay works!

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

Mike - I have the accessory common (B for black) running directly to the common bus bar terminal (see diagram) -  Is this the accessory common wire you are referring to that needs to be connected to the track common?  Or are you saying to connect an additional wire (from your wording that's what it sounds like) from the track common (outside rail) to a common terminal on the bus bar??  

Paul

 

 

DSCN0650

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

I'm getting the "Image Not Found" in your last posting. 

DSCN0648

You should be able to click on above image to enlarge.  There may be some confusion on using the terms common, ground, etc..  Perhaps this diagram based on your original photo will help.  I believe you've identified and made the connections shown as (1) and (2).  What the guys are now talking about is connection (3).  The (-) of your Accessory terminal block must be connected to the common or outer-rail of the track.  This connection is typically made by running a wire between the Accessory transformer and the Train track transformer (common to common, ground to ground, or whatever you choose to call what is connected to the outer rail).

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Stan, John & Mike - Don't know why my diagram isn't showing up - it does on my computer.  Based on Stan's diagram I now understand (I hope) what needs to be done.  Need to connect the common on the train transformer to the common on the accessory transformer (#3).  They are phased.  

I thank you Stan for the diagram as I am a visual learner and it helped greatly.  John's patience with me is to be admired!!!

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

I guess I can put the relay I had for you back on the shelf. We're going to stay with this until those blasted gates go down when a train goes by! I need to figure out how Stan does those eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles
And arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
One was, to be used as evidence against us.

 

John

Located in the real Upstate NY

SUCCESS!!  Found out that I didn't have my transformers phased after all (must of had another senior moment). Once phased, not only did the gates operate but a signal bridge that I couldn't get to work for the last month is now operational !!!  Stan, John & Mike - thanx for putting up with this PITA!  The diagram Stan posted made it all clear to this visual learner.  Thanx again guys for taking the time to help relieve my frustration !  

Paul

 

 

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early!" - Yogi Berra

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