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I really like our locomotives from 3rd Rail, Atlas, and Weaver, as well as a lot of the MTH and Lionel products.
And, as with all things electronic, some of them have had problems.
 
Currently we have three locomotives out of 50-60 which have a problem and are on the "deadline" for repair.
 
Over all, we're pretty satisfied with our power roster, but purchase fewer items these days as we're running out of room ... and money for trains.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals........

 

Those of you have Lionel and MTH engines, do you have Sunset 3rd rail brass engines, how do you like them ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

 

I'm late, as usual - 

 

I think that all the manufacturers/importers offer good to great product. I tend to

buy Lionel locomotives because I prefer their operating system. I think that MTH

tends to have my vote for rolling stock (sturdier, a bit). I admire Mr Wolf's willingness

to offer more "rare" items/roads.

 

I have had some problems with ALL manufacturers' products - from Williams to 3rd Rail and everybody in between - but not many with ANY of them.

 

This stuff isn't cheap, but as an old guy let me tell you how lucky we all are to

have the product to buy, the money to buy it and the time to whine when they're

not perfect.

 

It wasn't always that way, and not that long ago.

Originally Posted by D500:

This stuff isn't cheap, but as an old guy let me tell you how lucky we all are to

have the product to buy, the money to buy it and the time to whine when they're

not perfect.

 

It wasn't always that way, and not that long ago.

Great stuff you said here!

 

I can't afford a lot of stuff, no VL BB for me, or any steamers for that matter!  However, I am very thankful for what I can afford and I can still move around enough to use it after getting it!  I think the selection now days is just incredible also! After being away for many years, the selection, methods of control, sounds... unbelievable!

That's what got me back into the hobby. Really hoping it stays that way!

 

I've really had no problems with anything, so no whining here! I have almost all MTH diesels, rolling stock and DCS control system. I have been very pleased with all of it.

Last edited by rtr12

Yes it is an average of $15 each. Mike Reagan & all his people are GREAT, they always fix and return them in about a week. I even sent an E Mail to the CEO and said if you cannot build them any better than pay the shipping. The last new engine I purchased from Train Express in Indy before I gave them my $$$ I told them put it on your test track and be sure it all works. LOL!

hello TRAIN NERD AL..............

 

What was your WORSE engine that had to be shipped back for repairs?  Lionel should REFUND all shipping costs for their defective DOA trains to you.  I stopped buying lionel after dealing with 2 starter set engines (Berkshire with wobbling axle, wheels were press on crooked and 0-6-0 Docksider axle gear is shaped like a egg).  Lionel send the replacement parts free of charge.  I had to spend few hours of time to do the repairs and still had problems with running.  Its too bad because I really liked the Docksider and still want one.  I don't know how train companies keep getting away with this and stay in business.

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

Tiffany,

 

The WORSE engine was a Lionel NS Genset and there not cheep. DOA brand new wouldn't do anything, sent back, returned in about a week, worked great. Failed again, Lionel does pay shipping if it fails in 90 days of a warranty repair, the LEDs in the removable cab roof failed, I mailed just the roof & they sent a new one. After the 5th return Mike said send a receipt showing what you paid and we will mail you a check and they did, I loved that engine but whats a guy to do? VERY disappointing. 

 

Train Nerd Al

I just received my MTH Premier N&W 2-8-0 Consolidation. This was a long awaited engine and was originally announced before the MTH Steam hiatus. It most certainly was produced by MTH's "new"source.

 

The detail is outstanding and in general I am thrilled with the locomotive. It is not my most expensive locomotive, but will hold it's own with any of them.  I have a variety of manufacturer's locomotives. This one almost immediately went to the top of my list. It made one complete pass around the modular club layout (32x20) @ 3 SMPH before I brought it up to a more prototypical 20 SMPH. Very smooth, great sounds, and smoke. Pulled 11 scale cars at less than 1.5 amps. Couldn't have asked for more.

 

I look forward to thanking Mike Wolf personally for this engine if I catch up with him at Trainstock. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

 

Those of you have Lionel and MTH engines, do you have Sunset 3rd rail brass engines, how do you like them ?

All the above. I have four 3rd Rail engines, eagerly awaiting the fifth, and have sent Scott Mann a write-up for consideration of a sixth. I vote with my wallet, and 3rd Rail has received a good share.

 

Gilly

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Last edited by Gilly@N&W

Well....I recently took possession of an MTH Premiere ES44AC loco.  It is outstanding, but during my pre-run checkout I noticed the front roller would not move feely.  It was "deformed" and required me to use a hobby knife and cut away the outer plastic to remedy the situation. After a little lubrication... all was well. I also purchased a Dash 8 UP that required me to send off to MTH due to metal shavings in the worm gear. I sometimes wonder that my expectation of quality control is far too high.

I am an MTH service person, I do repairs for Barry's Train shop and Iron Horse Hobby Shop, and have noticed that the "out of box" failures of new locos has dropped off dramatically, ever since the 5 volt Proto 2.0 has been phased out. With Protosounds 3.0, the only issue I have run into is the infrequent wire not installed properly into the plug, and the tether problems occasionally. The locos seem to be a lot more reliable and have better sounds than their predecessors.  This seems to be a positive trend, IMHO. 

I really like MTH locos.Matter of fact,that's all I buy.However two of the last three had problems right out of the box.MTH and the hobby shop both worked with me to fix the issues,and all is well.But it taught me to always test before leaving the hobby shop.Please don't blast me Rich,I'm not a one post wonder.......or a hater.But at times,quality does seem to be a question with any manufacturer.
Originally Posted by ChessieMD:

Well....I recently took possession of an MTH Premiere ES44AC loco.  It is outstanding, but during my pre-run checkout I noticed the front roller would not move feely.  It was "deformed" and required me to use a hobby knife and cut away the outer plastic to remedy the situation. After a little lubrication... all was well. I also purchased a Dash 8 UP that required me to send off to MTH due to metal shavings in the worm gear. I sometimes wonder that my expectation of quality control is far too high.

Maybe your expectations are high because they cost so dang much!!

I've the MTH GN boxcab electric set and cannot get the panographs to work correctly.  They won't "turn off" and the "manual/auto" softkeys don't work.  Multiple resets, etc, etc., have not found the way to make it work. 

 

I want the pans to operate manually so the locomotive won't raise the pans coming out of the engine house, which rips the interior to pieces.

 

Latching them down is the only way I've been able to keep them down.

 

The problem with that is people say it ruins the raising/lowering mechanism to latch them down.

 

Another "bug" MTH doesn't seem able to fix ....

AMEN!
 
Originally Posted by Erie Express:
Originally Posted by ChessieMD:

Well....I recently took possession of an MTH Premiere ES44AC loco.  It is outstanding, but during my pre-run checkout I noticed the front roller would not move feely.  It was "deformed" and required me to use a hobby knife and cut away the outer plastic to remedy the situation. After a little lubrication... all was well. I also purchased a Dash 8 UP that required me to send off to MTH due to metal shavings in the worm gear. I sometimes wonder that my expectation of quality control is far too high.

Maybe your expectations are high because they cost so dang much!!

 

Kerrigan
 
Don't worry about damaging the mechanism. The erector mechanism pulls the pan down, so having the pan locked down simply takes the actuator lever out of contact with the cam. Your problem is most likely mechanical. The instructions caution you not to lock the pans down with the automatic actuator on, but it really doesn't matter. Also, check the bottom of your lead unit. There should be a switch there to turn the automatic pan actuation on and off. I can't remember if there's a separate switch on the rear unit or not. 
 
By the way, be sure that your firmware is up to date on both the remote and the TIU. If you have old firmware, that might cause the softkeys not to work. 
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan:

I've the MTH GN boxcab electric set and cannot get the panographs to work correctly.  They won't "turn off" and the "manual/auto" softkeys don't work.  Multiple resets, etc, etc., have not found the way to make it work. 

 

I want the pans to operate manually so the locomotive won't raise the pans coming out of the engine house, which rips the interior to pieces.

 

Latching them down is the only way I've been able to keep them down.

 

The problem with that is people say it ruins the raising/lowering mechanism to latch them down.

 

Another "bug" MTH doesn't seem able to fix ....

 

I have 4.2 (the latest release).  I'll look for the switch.

 

Did a full reset once and it worked, but the soft-key labels were reversed ... auto wasn't really auto mode. 

 

Next time it was powered up, it went back to raising and lowering with direction change.

 

Last time it was powered off and the pans were down I pressed them into latched position.  The pan motor still makes the noise like it's raising and lowering them ... is that a problem, the motor continuing to cycle with them latched down?

Last edited by Kerrigan
Not really. The motor will do its thing regardless of whether the pans are locked or free. Best if you just find the off switch - I'm pretty sure there should be one down there. You should be able to keep the pans in the down position with the softkeys, but since that is giving you problems, the off switch is your next best option. 
 
The pan mechanisms are poorly engineered. I have at least four electrics with the auto pans and only half of them work. My Milwaukee Road boxcar sets raise the rear pan to run forward - it should be the front one. The only motors the Milwaukee ran from the rear pan were the Bi-Polars. The pans were so close together that if something happened to the front pan it would wreck the rear one as well, so they always ran them from the rear pan. 
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan:

I have 4.2 (the latest release).  I'll look for the switch.

 

Did a full reset once and it worked, but the soft-key labels were reversed ... auto wasn't really auto mode. 

 

Next time it was powered up, it went back to raising and lowering with direction change.

 

Last time it was powered off and the pans were down I pressed them into latched position.  The pan motor still makes the noise like it's raising and lowering them ... is that a problem, the motor continuing to cycle with them latched down?

 

To kind of jump on what Scott said, you are going to have some problems with these units. First of all, these are complicated, with the electronics on board, and that introduces an element of risk right there, these simply are a lot more complicated that post war engines, for example. 

 

Secondly, these are relatively low run items. In some ways, it is a lot easier to produce items that work out of the box with large runs, because they produce so many, A)they are more willing to keep marginal equipment out of the retail flow and B)if they are using any kind of statistical quality control, given how many they produce, it is likely that they quickly will find the common production issues (bad parts, bad design, bad assembly steps) and fix them. The other issue with large runs is they aren't as concerned about high margins to make profits, you can make as much profit selling 1000 of an item at a buck margin, as 1 with 1000......

 

With the toy train manufacturers, it is a different story:

 

1)Small runs relatively, with complicated parts, doesn't even really allow much basis for statistical quality control.

 

2)With the need for large margins, they aren't going to spend a lot of time on quality improvement at the source, so you won't see lean production techniques and such, that lend themselves to quality, their model is based on using cheap assembly resources, with a relatively unskilled workforce. The biggest factor in quality and productivity is capital,i.e investing money and time in producing things from the get go with quality in it.

 

3)Inspection quite honestly only improves quality for items that are really DOA, where it is evident, it does poorly with marginal items. So if an engine comes off the ship, and whoever is their QC inspector runs it at the factor, running some basic checkout, it could work great, by the time it has sat in a wearhouse, gotten shipped to you or an LHS, and taken out of the box, that marginally connected wire, that chip who was marginal to start with, the circuit board with the tendency to crack, might fail.

 

For cheaper items, they might inspect at the factory, where if they put it on the track and it seems to run, it passes, they won't notice the rear light is out, the grabiron is bent, the paint is scratched, because quite frankly, their job is to see if the thing runs briefly, period, and they aren't exactly going to be hobbyists themselves.....

 

4)With limited markets like toy trains, the competition quite frankly is limited, and when all of them are using the same model, not surprising we may not always be happy with the quality (and again, I am not saying that the quality on these units is bad, good or indifferent, my experience has been good, but I don't run command and have relatively few new units).

 

What usually drives quality improvement is what is known as cost of quality (really, cost of low quality), which basically is how much does it cost us when a unit is defective? That cost is the cost to repair the item, plus the opportunity costs if the lack of quality causes them lost sales. If those losses still allow them to make money, if the cost of quality is less than the cost of addressing the issues, they don't do it. The US auto industry for years operated on a model where they didn't care about the cost of quality, they were making so much money, that the cost of quality in dealer repair work and such, and dissatisfied customers, didn't matter (in large part, like the toy train companies, they all used the same model and had the same issues, so jumping from Ford to Chrysler didn't help). It was only when foreign cars, with lean production techniques and true quality control, i.e a valid alternative, came into the picture that the big 3 was forced to change.

 

With toy trains, it is annoying, but quite frankly, it is something we will have to live with, until their is economic motivation in doing so, quality assurance/quality control is going to remain an issue at some level. It can be improved, few would say that PS2 or PS3, for example, is less reliable than PS1, changes in design will often get rid of old issues, I am just saying that there isn't the impetus for the kind of quality we have come to expect with other products, this is more like craft made stuff in some ways than modern mass production.

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