# MTH PS1 Gas Turbine Conversion to ERR TMCC

John,

I trust you.  Without you, I could not be able to do these projects.  I just was interested in what you had written.

Mark

()

John,

I installed one diode and found the smoke output to be much improved.  Would I be correct in saying the the voltage dropped from 18 volts to 9 volts with the single diode?  I assume with each additional diode it would drop an additional .7 volts.  I found the output to be good on my test track with an LW transformer.  When I switched to the layout, where I use ZW-L transformers, I found the smoke output to be a little more than on the LW at the test bench.  Is the ZW-L that much more powerful that I would notice stronger smoke output?  What is the optimal voltage for the MTH smoke unit?  I may add another diode.

()

The voltage dropped from 18 vrms to about 12.7 vrms which is the half wave value of a sine wave. Calculate that by 18 X 1.414 = 25.452 and divide that by 2.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

()

It's all about the voltage applied, the ZW-L puts out 18 volts, and I think the LW probably has a similar output.  So, I doubt the performance will be all that different.  Obviously, measuring the voltages would be a useful exercise.

()

John,

I finally succeeded with the Gas Turbine.  All the advice you gave me worked!  I finished it off with four diodes on the smoke units.  It now works perfectly.  Thanks!  I have another question.  I am doing a Coal Turbine now and the A unit has small lights inside the shell.  There is a spring attachment where the shell meets the frame for the power to transfer.  The wires are black and red at the point on the frame where the springs touch, which match the hot and ground from the pickups and axles.  These lights come on with the market lights and mars light.  Do you feel these grain of wheat size bulbs run off the constant voltage lighting board?  I have attached a picture of the shell.

Mark

#### Attachments

Photos (1)
()

No, they are markers.  Those wires need to be traced but they won't be AC despite color.  Either they go to the PS-1 board or a CV board but with a current limiting resistor on the output.  They are run off about 6V.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

()

They run off 6V, but they'd need a dropping resistor, which is normally on the CV board for the LED socket.

()

So the green lights in the shell should be connected to the constant voltage board in the front of the frame that runs the mars lights and number board lights?

()

gunrunnerjohn posted:

They run off 6V, but they'd need a dropping resistor, which is normally on the CV board for the LED socket.

John, Your repeating what I said, but it is not on the CV Board in this case.  Looking closely at your picture you can see the yellow connector with red and black wires on the side of the bottom board.  In this case MTH used the PS-1 bottom board marker connection.   You do not have a marker connection on  that CV Board.  You just have 6V outputs.  That is why I said you should trace where the leads go.

For a TMCC conversion where the PS-1 board comes out, yes, you can tap off the CV board.  You can use the LNB or IL plug since these are constant on, not directional.  Solder leads to the bottom pins, but install a 100-150 ohm resistor in line with one of the leads.  Send it back to the pad keeping Red +DC and Blck -DC and you will have markers lite and the ability to remove shell without having to unplug light connector.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

()

There's a socket on the CV board with a dropping resistor for marker/class lights if the unit is equipped with them.  They can, as George says, also be connected to the output on the PS/1 board, the yellow connector.  Easy way to find out, trace the wires from the spring contacts on the frame to where they go.  I'd guess the PS/1 board for this one as I don't believe that particular lighting board has the LED driver socket, the ones I have are all either MARS, headlights, or cab lights/number board outputs.  All the bulbs are 6V.

()
GGG posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

They run off 6V, but they'd need a dropping resistor, which is normally on the CV board for the LED socket.

John, Your repeating what I said, but it is not on the CV Board in this case.  Looking closely at your picture you can see the yellow connector with red and black wires on the side of the bottom board.  In this case MTH used the PS-1 bottom board marker connection.   You do not have a marker connection on  that CV Board.  You just have 6V outputs.  That is why I said you should trace where the leads go.

For a TMCC conversion where the PS-1 board comes out, yes, you can tap off the CV board.  You can use the LNB or IL plug since these are constant on, not directional.  Solder leads to the bottom pins, but install a 100-150 ohm resistor in line with one of the leads.  Send it back to the pad keeping Red +DC and Blck -DC and you will have markers lite and the ability to remove shell without having to unplug light connector.  G

Yep, I got there George, just slower than you did.   I just checked and those boards indeed don't have any marker outputs.  I'm more used to the CV boards used in steamers as that's where most of my work seems to gravitate.

()

GGG,

What does LNB or IL stand for on the plugs on the constant voiltage board?

()

Would I be correct in guessing LNB is lighted number board and IL is interior light?

()
Mark Girardi 121016 posted:

Would I be correct in guessing LNB is lighted number board and IL is interior light?

Yes.  I assume your moving the HL to the TMCC board.  But it is directional.  So to get the Markers constant power you have to use an output that is always on.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

()

Only steam CV board have the marker output because the PS-1 board is in tender.  Since the PS-1 board is in the engine on diesels, the markers feed off the bottom board.  Having said that, There are some engines that have a simple CV board that did have a marker output with resistor.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

()

So all I need to do is tap a 6 volt output on the CV board and put a 100 or 150 ohm resistor in line to the LED marker lights?  From reading your post I just tap onto the bottom side of the CV board where the plug is for the interior light.  Is this correct?

()

For your board, you can use either of the constant 6V outputs for the markers, number boards, or interior lights.  Yes, for the markers, you'll want something like a 150 ohm resistor.

()

John,

If you have an engine with four motors in one unit can an ERR cruise board support this load?

Thanks,

Mark

()

It's hit or miss.  Jon Z. stated flat out that it isn't supported and would likely not work well.  I've tried it several times, I have one example that seems to run fine, and another that it simply didn't work, lousy low speed performance.  It's all in the luck of the draw.

()

John,

If you had an MTH Veranda Proto1 with 4 motors, would you attempt to install two ERR boards to ensure the success, or would you not do the project at all?  I hate to ruin a mint engine.  Is there another way to do this conversion?

()

Oh, if I wanted it, I'd certainly do the project.  You can try one unit and see if it functions.  If not, one way I've seen this done is to simply parallel two Cruise Commander M modules off a standard R2LC on a steam motherboard.  In any case, you won't ruin the engine, you just may have to re-engineer your job if the first attempt doesn't work.  You learn by trying.

()

John,

I will give the 4 motor Veranda a spin.  I will get to it after I finish the Coal Turbine.  I may have to ask for help when I get to it.  I was able to successfully get the marker leds to work  with the suggestions from you and others in this post.  I appreciate the help very much!  I still have a long way to go to finish the coal turbine, but everything so far is working out great.  Thanks Again!

()

John,

If I need to use the Cruise M boards, where do I get the steam motherboard?

Mark

()

John,

I will try the single ERR board first, if it works I will be good, if it does not, I will ask for your assistance.  The two Cruise M boards would be a nice challenge for me, but I would need help.  I have been able to do all the work so far with your guidance.  Can I put put diesel railsounds in with a steamer motherboard?

Thanks,

Mark

()

John,

Thanks.  I will advise on the project when I get it all started.  This is going to be a real learning experience like the ones I am already doing now.

Thanks again!

()