New Lionel Legacy with Bluetooth Engines misconceptions.

Dave Olson posted:
breezinup posted:

One question:  I already have a LC+ universal remote, about 6 weeks old. Will the universal remote updates you mentioned be available to load into these pre-existing remotes?

Yes Sir. I'll post instructions when it's ready.

Dave, I have had a LC+ Univesal Remote since the end of December and have not been able to use it because of malfunctions. The last correspondence I received from Lionel stated: It has been determined that there is a bug in the code. The fix will be worked on by engineering but they could not give me an ETA on the fix. It could be up to 6 months. That was dated April 3rd...so have to ask...will the update that you are referring too, include the fix for the bug in the code so that operating multiple locomotives will be possible without them continually shutting down and having to repeat the startup procedure? My LC+ Universal Remote is actually getting closer to the end of the warranty coverage period...and this issue remains unresolved. Thanks

Paul

The Marshall & Michigan Southern Railroad

PDDMI posted:
Dave Olson posted:
breezinup posted:

One question:  I already have a LC+ universal remote, about 6 weeks old. Will the universal remote updates you mentioned be available to load into these pre-existing remotes?

Yes Sir. I'll post instructions when it's ready.

Dave, I have had a LC+ Univesal Remote since the end of December and have not been able to use it because of malfunctions. The last correspondence I received from Lionel stated: It has been determined that there is a bug in the code. The fix will be worked on by engineering but they could not give me an ETA on the fix. It could be up to 6 months. That was dated April 3rd...so have to ask...will the update that you are referring too, include the fix for the bug in the code so that operating multiple locomotives will be possible without them continually shutting down and having to repeat the startup procedure? My LC+ Universal Remote is actually getting closer to the end of the warranty coverage period...and this issue remains unresolved. Thanks

Yes, this update includes all known bug issues! I remember your video. Just a few more weeks. 

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

It's an exciting time in our Hobby, Blue Tooth or IPhone operation sounds like fun, and Years ago, when Lou Kovach introduced the TPC 300/400 connected to TMCC Cab 1, and he quoted, "now two or more operators can run trains together". Well, this will be great entertainment, a bunch of friends using their IPhones to have fun running trains....Wow, I am a player....Thanks Dave, it's Exciting...

shawn posted:
Landsteiner posted:

"Now all we need is for Lionchief+ locos to be upward compatible to be run with the CAB2."

I suspect there would be a market for a Legacy to LionChief "bridge" device.

You Think! What a novel idea?

Good grief. All this news about remarkable advances in control systems, and some want more!    There are plenty of options now. 

Upward compatibility with a Cab 2 Legacy system is a bit of a silly idea, really. Obviously, LionChief engines are less expensive products, with fewer electronics and functions. They're clearly not designed or intended to be run with a $350 control system.  Besides, add all those additional electronics, and you'll end up paying $500 for a LionChief engine! You've gained nothing. Just go buy a Legacy engine.

So here. Just skip a step, and ask for mind-controlled trains. 

Philips's brain-wave monitor with three electrodes enables the user to control household items through brain waves. [Source: Philips)

Using Human Brain Waves to Get Things Done

It may soon be possible for anyone, everyone, to control technologies using a wearable mind control device based on EEG or electroencephalogram technology. When neurons in the brain interact via chemical reactions, measurable currents called brain waves are created. The four main types of brainwave patterns are delta, theta, alpha, and beta, and these can be detected and interpreted and signals sent wirelessly to devices to control them.

shawn posted:
Landsteiner posted:

"Now all we need is for Lionchief+ locos to be upward compatible to be run with the CAB2."

I suspect there would be a market for a Legacy to LionChief "bridge" device.

You Think! What a novel idea?

From what I understand the idea behind LC and LC+ was folks wanted an easier to use, less expensive system, with less expensive trains.  Something that was a good fit for the newbie and intermediate railroader.  Lionel gave it to them and now folks want to operate those less expensive trains with the high end command system.

I certainly thinks it's a cool idea but I do find it interesting how this developed.  Are these the folks who have Legacy and now want to start getting into the LC+ locomotives?  I suspect we'll see something if there is a demand.

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

Thanks Moonman. That will make it tough in the future searching in a train shop of shelves with box ends of engines facing out, unless your shopping item specific. It would be nice if the icons they use in the catalogs that indicate the features were added to the box ends. 

Dave Z

Dave Zucal posted:

Thanks Moonman. That will make it tough in the future searching in a train shop of shelves with box ends of engines facing out, unless your shopping item specific. It would be nice if the icons they use in the catalogs that indicate the features were added to the box ends. 

Dave Olson stated earlier that ever Bluetooth engine box must carry the Bluetooth emblem similar to below.

From Dave Olson

"The online features as well as the features on the box will say Bluetooth. It will also be required for us to put the official Bluetooth logo on the box. The engines will also have the FCC statement on the underside as required by law. Probably under the tender on steams and in between a truck and frame on diesels."

 

BT

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

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Dave Olson posted:
You also have to keep in mind that the LC APP is a free APP, so there are business plans to keep in mind.

True, but it will help you sell more product, that's hopefully where the money is made.

I have played with the Bluetooth in Flyer engines for a while.  It is a very good system.  This is a great post to explain and answer any questions an operator may have.   I like to see Dave Olsen jump in these posts to help clear up any questions someone may have and keep all the information needed current.

 

 

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Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I have played with the Bluetooth in Flyer engines for a while.  It is a very good system.  This is a great post to explain and answer any questions an operator may have.   I like to see Dave Olsen jump in these posts to help clear up any questions someone may have and keep all the information needed current.

Marty

The first time I actually played with it was the PE starter set last week.  While I will always be a Legacy Users, I found the App very well done and simple with a nice variety of options. 

I also want to thanks Dave for jumping in here.  He's been a great asset to the forum and Lionel by giving us the information.  His video was great in showing everyone what the differences and operation of all the components are. 

For folks wanting a Legacy offering without a Legacy system and a decent set of operational features this is a nice command choice for them.

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

Goshawk posted:

They just posted a video showing the operation of a Legacy engine with the App.

Dave posted this yesterday here on page 1.  Good information to have it on page 2 also!

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

MartyE posted:
Goshawk posted:

They just posted a video showing the operation of a Legacy engine with the App.

Dave posted this yesterday here on page 1.  Good information to have it on page 2 also!

Oops, sorry!

Corey West

Aircraft for work, trains for fun.

Goshawk posted:
MartyE posted:
Goshawk posted:

They just posted a video showing the operation of a Legacy engine with the App.

Dave posted this yesterday here on page 1.  Good information to have it on page 2 also!

Oops, sorry!

By all means don't apologize...Good to carry on page 2!  Great information, well worth the repeat.

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

Dave Olson posted:
PDDMI posted:
Dave Olson posted:
breezinup posted:

One question:  I already have a LC+ universal remote, about 6 weeks old. Will the universal remote updates you mentioned be available to load into these pre-existing remotes?

Yes Sir. I'll post instructions when it's ready.

Dave, I have had a LC+ Univesal Remote since the end of December and have not been able to use it because of malfunctions. The last correspondence I received from Lionel stated: It has been determined that there is a bug in the code. The fix will be worked on by engineering but they could not give me an ETA on the fix. It could be up to 6 months. That was dated April 3rd...so have to ask...will the update that you are referring too, include the fix for the bug in the code so that operating multiple locomotives will be possible without them continually shutting down and having to repeat the startup procedure? My LC+ Universal Remote is actually getting closer to the end of the warranty coverage period...and this issue remains unresolved. Thanks

Yes, this update includes all known bug issues! I remember your video. Just a few more weeks. 

Dave, Thanks for the response...just a guess on my part, but short of sending all of the remotes back for servicing, will the updates be made through the new LC+ App?

Paul

The Marshall & Michigan Southern Railroad

PDDMI posted:

Dave, Thanks for the response...just a guess on my part, but short of sending all of the remotes back for servicing, will the updates be made through the new LC+ App?

No, it'll be done via it's own dedicated APP. Very simple to use. I will post details when ready.

For those without a smartphone, the option will also be available to send in to service for updating for a fee.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Good to hear that the Universal Remote upgrade that is coming will also make it compatible with all LionChief locos produced, thus obviating the need for the list of early locos not functional with the Universal Remote.  Also good to hear that from now on, the $50 universal remote will operate every single Lionel locomotive made from here on in (Legacy, LC, LC+) in command mode, thus making this the least expensive path to command control for a wide range of products on the market.  Nicely done!

MartyE posted:
shawn posted:
Landsteiner posted:

"Now all we need is for Lionchief+ locos to be upward compatible to be run with the CAB2."

I suspect there would be a market for a Legacy to LionChief "bridge" device.

You Think! What a novel idea?

From what I understand the idea behind LC and LC+ was folks wanted an easier to use, less expensive system, with less expensive trains.  Something that was a good fit for the newbie and intermediate railroader.  Lionel gave it to them and now folks want to operate those less expensive trains with the high end command system.

I certainly thinks it's a cool idea but I do find it interesting how this developed.  Are these the folks who have Legacy and now want to start getting into the LC+ locomotives?  I suspect we'll see something if there is a demand.

Although I'm not one of the those asking for LC or LC + to be operable by Legacy, I can understand the request. As was stated, my guess is that a lot of people started out in the hobby with LC or LC+ engines with one, two or a universal remote to get into the hobby at a less expensive cost and then upgraded to Legacy as they became more knowledgeable and "into" the hobby.

If they now want to run an LC or LC+ engine at the same time as a Legacy engine, they're into juggling remotes and it would be nice if just one remote (the Legacy controller) could operate the LC or LC+ engines, too.

Just my $ 02.

What I'd be interested in knowing is whether, perhaps in the future, a Lionel BT receiver could be retrofitted into an older Legacy or TMCC engine to make it operable under the new BT APP.  

 

 

dk122trains posted:

Excellent news, will the bluetooth app allow lashup of engines or will we have to use the Legacy app?

I also would like to know if the new App or the LionChief Remote will support multiple lash ups. 

Getting back into O Scale 3 rail, I am looking toward creating a roster of more modern diesels, and multi-engine consists are appealing to me, and, I’m assuming, many other users. 

Thank you. 

Carl Peduzzi

Dumfries, VA

Carl Peduzzi posted:
dk122trains posted:

Excellent news, will the bluetooth app allow lashup of engines or will we have to use the Legacy app?

I also would like to know if the new App or the LionChief Remote will support multiple lash ups. 

Getting back into O Scale 3 rail, I am looking toward creating a roster of more modern diesels, and multi-engine consists are appealing to me, and, I’m assuming, many other users. 

Thank you. 

Well it must somewhat support MUs because the E6 sets are 2 powered AAs.  @Dave Olson would have to explain how that works.

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

Carl Peduzzi posted:
dk122trains posted:

Excellent news, will the bluetooth app allow lashup of engines or will we have to use the Legacy app?

I also would like to know if the new App or the LionChief Remote will support multiple lash ups. 

Getting back into O Scale 3 rail, I am looking toward creating a roster of more modern diesels, and multi-engine consists are appealing to me, and, I’m assuming, many other users. 

Thank you. 

The goal of LionChief Plus is to give the user an extremely easy-to-use operating system. A speed knob, basic sounds, electrocouplers. This way, anyone can pick up the hardware remote and be running a train in seconds. The APP is the same concept, albeit with a few added features such as smoke on/off and individual volume control.

Our goal in adding BLE to the Legacy engines is to make them compatible with the APP and Universal Remote, in essence making them a LionChief Plus engine while still retaining the ability to be a Legacy engine. The Bluetooth will not give all the features you get with a Legacy controller.

If you have an original TMCC controller, you do not have access to all Legacy features with a Legacy engine. It is the same with using a BLE controller. We do not want to add things that will add complexity to the APP such as quilling whistle, lash-ups, running multiple trains at once, etc. If you want Legacy features on your phone, that's what the iCAB APP is for.

I can't count the number of times I've had people tell me that they love our scale engines, but do not buy them because they find using Legacy to be too intimidating or complex. This is something we completely understand. The Legacy controller is a complex beast that does wonders for us that know how to use it, but some people just want to run the train with simple controls.

The Legacy engines will get their own Bluetooth ID number. It is built into the code. When the APP attaches, it commands all locos that have that ID, up to 3. So you can "MU" 3 engines of the same sku only. In AA sets (and the separate sale B units), they get the same BLE ID number.

If you notice in the catalog on the F3/7 page, there's a note that says that only 3 BLE engines can be controlled at once. This is a limit of Bluetooth technology. So if you were to purchase the AA set and both B units, it will only run 3 of the 4 at once. The dummy units get the BLE board (as well as the Legacy board) so that you can control volume (on Super Bass), smoke on/off on the APP, electrocouplers, etc.

Hope this helps.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

All this looks like some pretty interesting new developments for train control. It all looks pretty cool and I am looking forward to it and seeing it all in action. 

Thanks MartyE for starting the thread and another Thanks to Dave Olson for participating and posting the video explaining operations. Some very exciting stuff to learn about!

I just got a new SD40T-2 with Bluetooth and the RPMs do not change when it goes forward or reverse. As it is running around the layout it stays in idle mode for sound. I called customer service and and they didn't know why it would do that.

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