New Lionel J3a Hudson Class Lights

Its doubtful they'll change it.

I asked if they could offer the H10 in "Pennsylvania" as opposed to the "Pennsylvania Lines" on the high side tender and Ryan said, once its cataloged they don't want to deviate from the picture.

Its an easy enough fix. They just need to use the tooling for the 6-38041 50th anniversary hudson which lacks the class lights.

It appears however they will be using the 6-28072 tooling:

It's far easier to replace the front cover and tuck them inside than it would be to add them I would imagine. It looks odd without them, IMO. I think we can all agree on the silver color issue though. I like the ones with the PT tenders and later lettering but don't like the discs or the mixed drivers.

It is easy to replace the front cover IF you can get them. The 5433 front covers have been out of stock for years. Filling the holes then matching the paint is not so easy.

Lionel has the dies for both. 

Pete

It would be a nice touch if Lionel supplied painted front covers with it so everyone could have it the way they like. Kind of like what they did once before on the 765 Berkshires with the Mars light.

Randy_B posted:

It would be a nice touch if Lionel supplied painted front covers with it so everyone could have it the way they like. Kind of like what they did once before on the 765 Berkshires with the Mars light.

Great idea, then they could ship them as pictured in the catalog and not disappoint anyone.

Pete

Fill the holes and paint it.

I hope they don't remove the class lights. They cataloged it with them and I'm really sick of production pieces being totally different from what was in the catalog. I'm not a rivet counter. I'm a toy train guy and for lack of a better term the locomotive has more "play value" with the colorful class lights.

Sort of knew I'd see this topic come up soon.

The classification lights tend to spoil the appearance of the engine, IMHO. They are oversized and a bit clumsy because they are too large and not positioned correctly, as modeled by Lionel. I prefer the "look" of my good old 6-38041. Looking through Staufer/May Thoroughbreds reveals that most of the J3a's pictured are sans class lights. If Lionel is going to execute a change by eliminating the class lights (at least on the as-built No. 5405 version) the time to do it is now before the orders get placed. Make the announcement as early as possible.  Not necessarily a deal killer, but I would say begone to the class lights if I could. 

I agree with everyone that Lionel needs to stay away from the Honda Civic silver at all costs.

Respectfully,

Bob

NYC Fan posted:

I hope they don't remove the class lights. They cataloged it with them and I'm really sick of production pieces being totally different from what was in the catalog. I'm not a rivet counter. I'm a toy train guy and for lack of a better term the locomotive has more "play value" with the colorful class lights.

Exactly!

Mike

I'm in the "I like the class lights" camp.  However, as suggested above, just a plain boiler front without them would be a worthwhile option.  I'm sure the folks that don't want them wouldn't have too much trouble paying $15-20 extra for the piece, and it's just a bolt-on, so installation is pretty simple.

I like the class lights. What I don't like is the white stripe. The catalog just shows the one model with the stripe. Hope they keep it that way.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm in the "I like the class lights" camp.  However, as suggested above, just a plain boiler front without them would be a worthwhile option.  I'm sure the folks that don't want them wouldn't have too much trouble paying $15-20 extra for the piece, and it's just a bolt-on, so installation is pretty simple.

Well, they could have extra boiler fronts, I do think that would be an excellent idea(as long as they make sure to include all the lighting hardware so you don't have to preform surgery switching them). I also believe that every 10 engines order they should pop in a Thomas face so they can have complaints about something that wasn't included in the catalog description.

Could you imagine popping open a brand new engine(home, club layout, or even a show) and here smiling at everyone is a big bright and shiny Thomas face? Of course I'm joking about the Thomas face, but maybe a great April fools joke.

How great are Al Stauffer’s books for reference I have most of them

Well here it is in the prototype. Lets do it Lionel 

The most beautiful Hudson Lionel ever produced. Stay true to the catalog photos!!!

I admit they look nice but it’s not right for a J3a

LIRR Steamer posted:

Well here it is in the prototype. Lets do it Lionel 

Now if Lionel cataloged this Hudson with roller bearing running gear, I'd be in for sure.

5305, 5409, 5447.  The last two are J3a's. Is 5305 a J1 or J2?

Lionel If you put the classification lights on them please mount them above the smoke box! Completely looks awful with them mounted too low and in front of the engine.

RLHarner posted:

 

Lionel If you put the classification lights on them please mount them above the smoke box! Completely looks awful with them mounted too low and in front of the engine.

Thank you. The gentleman has put his finger on "the problem".

Bob

Nothing wrong with an accurate toy.

I really have to agree on the way Lionel should mount the class lamps if they decide to do them.

Even though it's using the less detailed US tooling, the Vision Line 700E really gets the look of the class lights right, as did the earlier US tooled scale Hudsons - mounted at the edge of the smokebox front rather than towards the center.

And Dave, the NYC Hudsons numbered 5200-5344 were in the J1 class.

Bob Bubeck posted:

RLHarner posted:

 

Lionel If you put the classification lights on them please mount them above the smoke box! Completely looks awful with them mounted too low and in front of the engine.

Thank you. The gentleman has put his finger on "the problem".

Bob

Not gonna happen. Lionel has shown  with the niagara and H10 that they stick to the original blueprint on their locomotives.

The new J3a will be identical to the TMCC version, right down to the phillips screws securing the drivers.

I would prefer it without but its in no way a deal breaker. For the umpteenth time I just hope theres no casting lines or silver smokebox.

Hope you are wrong on that but I plan on asking Lionel at the big E tomorrow 

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

5305, 5409, 5447.  The last two are J3a's. Is 5305 a J1 or J2?

And then there's: 5411 and many others that had class lights at one time or another.

The Selkirk boiler front is sweet

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT mess with Hudson folks! Believe me, it is WORSE than messing with Texas! 😁

Remember the debate in 2000 on this forum about class lights on the J3A. Learned recently on this forum that the lights were taken off but in some cases put back on at a later time. Its OK to me that they come with lights - its only third rail - oops not supposed to say that.

ns1001 posted:

Remember the debate in 2000 on this forum about class lights on the J3A. Learned recently on this forum that the lights were taken off but in some cases put back on at a later time. Its OK to me that they come with lights - its only third rail - oops not supposed to say that.

Well actually it is Lionel and NOT "third rail", however it is a "3-Rail model", if that's what you are referring to. 

Tinplate Art posted:

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT mess with Hudson folks! Believe me, it is WORSE than messing with Texas! 😁

Well, who cares about Texas? 

I LIKE THE CLASS LIGHTS ON THE J3a HUDSON! 

I already have one, don't need another. So, I hope you fanatics get your wish.

I myself yank the marker LEDs on most of my stuff and try to fill the scale 3-4” holes that are usually hogged out for the leads. Lionel isn’t the only one committing aesthetic atrocities to give us overly large and overly bright and often incorrectly placed markers, 3rd Rail puts holes on top or even on the sides of the smokebox for their LED leads.

The abuse doesn’t end there though, take a look at what they do to the tenders.

Seems like all model progress kind of stopped in 2005 or so.

Catalog quote:

"Over two decades of service, the appearance of the class changed as well.  This new release, the first in over 15 years by Lionel, includes several of those changes, matched to photos of each locomotive in a particular era."

Here on the "Water Level Route" several die-hard seasoned NYC modelers have already said "NO" to pre-ordering this locomotive based on the published catalog illustrations.

RickO posted:

Bob Bubeck posted:

RLHarner posted:

 

Lionel If you put the classification lights on them please mount them above the smoke box! Completely looks awful with them mounted too low and in front of the engine.

Thank you. The gentleman has put his finger on "the problem".

Bob

Not gonna happen. Lionel has shown  with the niagara and H10 that they stick to the original blueprint on their locomotives.

The new J3a will be identical to the TMCC version, right down to the phillips screws securing the drivers.

I would prefer it without but its in no way a deal breaker. For the umpteenth time I just hope theres no casting lines or silver smokebox.

Well maybe that's Lionel not listening to there customer and that is not a very successful business model. If that continues Lionel will be the big loser. However its not only the classification lights, it is also the size of the nasty little front pilot wheels and tender gap on this model. At $1400.00 these small improvements should be expected. I hope that they do make the changes it would be awesome!

JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:

Catalog quote:

"Over two decades of service, the appearance of the class changed as well.  This new release, the first in over 15 years by Lionel, includes several of those changes, matched to photos of each locomotive in a particular era."

Here on the "Water Level Route" several die-hard seasoned NYC modelers have already said "NO" to pre-ordering this locomotive based on the published catalog illustrations.

As a dealer, I hope your not pointing it out to them! Also, do you have any inside contacts you can refer Norton’s excellent suggestion to about offering a separate sale boiler front sans the lights? That’s the best win win I’ve seen regarding this.

Were all the J3's New York Central? Any lettered New York Central Lines (subsidiaries)? Those would have markers in non-CTC territory?

IS LIRR's picture have a green boiler Jacket?

If Lionel offered a separate replacement boiler front to get rid of the marker lights, I would order a J3a, But I doubt they will.

And because of that, my dealer and Lionel will be losing my order for this one. Lionel needs to get with the times in the hobby. If you are going to make it an accurate Scale model. Don't stop short of that finish line. If I wanted maker light where they are not suppose to be, I would buy a Lion Chief engine.

Being from Detroit area, I'd like the New York Central Hudson #5434  (no marker lights) that ran from Detroit, Windsor, Buffalo, Syracuse, Albany and unto New York City.  Just dreaming'.

I would be ok if they offer a couple versions of the 5 in catalog WITHOUT class lights.

Or even have some DEALER ONLY versions without the class lights.  Then everyone can choose what they want.

I have NO PROBLEM with online catalog picture updates as long as it is done very soon, long before order deadline.  I dont really care about paper copy, as long as the online catalong is updated with the latest pictures of intended product so the customers that preorder are aware...

Just realized why I have been hoping that Lionel would bring back the NYC J3A last offered in 2001. Growing up I only got AF S gauge trains if any trains at all. My mother said I had enough trains and my father like the cheaper prices on AF trains. So every year I got the latest AF catalogue and the  most desirable loco to me was the J3A and not the top of line UP FEF-1 4-8-4. Think around 1990 or so Lionel/AF offered in a preview brochure the return of the AF J3A Hudson. But apparently lack of interest caused Lionel to substitute PA1s in the production set. Now in 2019 the O gauge J3A is being offered again and soon as I can will preorder one with the just the out of the builder's shop paint scheme. Some times patience pay off.

Super O Bob posted:

I would be ok if they offer a couple versions of the 5 in catalog WITHOUT class lights.

Or even have some DEALER ONLY versions without the class lights.  Then everyone can choose what they want.

I have NO PROBLEM with online catalog picture updates as long as it is done very soon, long before order deadline.  I dont really care about paper copy, as long as the online catalong is updated with the latest pictures of intended product so the customers that preorder are aware...

I absolutely like the classification lights. But, I'm not a big fan of some of the other options. Perhaps a more reasonable solution would be to eliminate some of the more unpopular choices. And give everyone what they want.

I personally would like 4 simple choices. Two like 5410 one with class lights and one without. And, two like 5452 one with class lights and one without.

Well, Friday I went to my LTS and I ordered the only one I liked, the set. Didn't like white walls, didn't like silver boiler, and didn't like the wheels on the two others. Class lights I'll settle for and hopefully in the future they'll offer either without the class lights or as it was suggested alternative boiler front without them or something like that.

I preferred the one in the set too, but I didn't want to get stuck trying to resell the passenger cars with broken trucks and worse  METRA GREEN tinted windows.

I figure I could always paint over the pinstriping with a small brush.

RickO posted:

From recent steamer deliveries, catalog photos guarantee nothing. We won't really know what the boiler paint will be until they show up. Black doesn't guarantee black when graphite indicates silver. We are at the mercy of the factory in China.

I preferred the one in the set too, but I didn't want to get stuck trying to resell the passenger cars with broken trucks and worse  METRA GREEN tinted windows.

I figure I could always paint over the pinstriping with a small brush.

 

Hopefully there won't be any of the brilliant misspellings, wrong colors, or accidental broken bits that seem to plague trains these days. Hopefully they'll offer some more Hudson's in 2-3 years from now at the least.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hopefully there won't be any of the brilliant misspellings, wrong colors, or accidental broken bits that seem to plague trains these days. Hopefully they'll offer some more Hudson's in 2-3 years from now at the least.

I don't know Dave....... Its been a whole catalog or two since the last run of Berkshires or Mikados hasn't it?

Its probably time to offer those again, LOL!

RickO posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hopefully there won't be any of the brilliant misspellings, wrong colors, or accidental broken bits that seem to plague trains these days. Hopefully they'll offer some more Hudson's in 2-3 years from now at the least.

I don't know Dave....... Its been a whole catalog or two since the last run of Berkshires or Mikados hasn't it?

Its probably time to offer those again, LOL!

Well, I don't have a Berk, lol. I guess we'll just have to sit and wait to be disappointed as usual if we fall into the disappointed category. I'm usually okay with a few things. Hopefully future offerings of steam will give us at least something we can hope for. Heck, I don't even know what NYC loco's I'd want more of other than Hudson's and Mohawk's.

It’d be nice if they just put a plain smokebox front in the packaging for those customers that don’t want the incorrectly mounted markers. 

Norm Charbonneau posted:

It’d be nice if they just put a plain smokebox front in the packaging for those customers that don’t want the incorrectly mounted markers. 

+1!

Bob

Personally, I would love to see a version with Selkirk Smokebox and Worthington system, with no class lights IN ADDITION to what's being offered....  That being said, I think I'll hold on to my 3rd Rail version for now... 

To marker light or not to marker light.  That is the question 

superwarp1 posted:

To marker light or not to marker light.  That is the question 

Actually, it's class or no class...

Rusty

Question - Request - I know this is a ways out there as the stuff is still in pre-oredr but If some one buys the 1939 set and wants to part with the cars - break the set up, please let me know as I am interested in buying them.

Thanks, 

Kevin