That is a sweet layout. I like it! Just keep going till you get the bugs out. Nothing better than knowing you can walk up to your layout, flip a switch and everything works, and you have confidence it will work every time. Keep your eyes on the prize. That is your motivational message for the day. No charge.
Cheers, W1
Thanks. 
My plan is indeed to work out any oddities with the switches before pressing forward with more changes. I think if I get the lighter springs for the few that are having switch machine stall issues, and get my new relay boards installed, I should have any remaining switch problems licked.
I did go around with my Dremel with the Cratex wheel and polish all the points, that actually helped smooth the transit through a number of the switches, there were some burrs on them that sometimes would catch a wheel. I suppose if you run enough they get worn off, but I'm wanting them gone before then. 
Hi John, specifically what parts on the switch did find that gave you the most trouble and that you had to polish? Was it the plastic frog or some of the end points on the metal rails like the common leads or powered center rails?
The parts I was polishing was the end point on the metal rails, the common rails are usually the ones that can pick a wheel. I also had one switch that the rail was not ground at all like they normally are, that one took a bit of grinding and then polish to get it right, it was derailing things at any speed because there was a huge "bump" as the wheel hit the rail head on!
Finally got started on my freight yard extension, the first steps.
The astute observer will notice this is a hybrid build, some of the beams are Mianne, and others are home brew. I had some of the necessary beam sizes and the legs, but the 30" cross beams were not in house. Since I didn't want to wait, they're made from scrap 3/4" lumber, plywood and pine. They were cut to the same size as the Mianne beams would be, and they're secured with screws through the legs. They'll support the top just fine and I didn't have to wait a couple months for the missing Mianne parts. 
As with my other benchwork, I'm leaving the open front for storage under the layout.
Looking great John! Good job on the hybrid. 👍🏻👍🏻
A blind observer would be able to tell my layout is a hybrid! 😉 Multiple materials.
John, once you put the plywood on top, and finish it off, who would know unless under the layout? It looks as sturdy as the Mianne would be so all is well.
My layout has dimensional lumber, 1x3, 1x4 and facia trim. Runs trains all day long with no earthquakes or tremors :-)
Admire it--have printed copy of benchwork really like the understorage area.
Very nicely done, @gunrunnerjohn! I believe you have some carpentry skills lurking as well. The upper level, while minimal, really blends with the boundaries of your layout. I know Tom helped quite a bit on the main layout but if I'm not mistaken the upper deck was all your handy work. The transition to the upper level cut into the homosote must really smooth out that transition. I'm taking notes.
You may have commented before on this but do you notice much difference in sound level on the upper deck without the homosote and only the foam roadbed?
Dan, the upper deck is indeed noisier, and I'm going to be addressing that. I have several ideas on the noise suppression, we'll see.
Looking forward to having the extra yard space, still some miles to go.
John, When you layout the deck material for the yard would you still have in the back of your mind to be considering an engine servicing yard on the opposite side of that portion of the room?
If so Maybe build in a node for an abutment like we did on the main layout corner. Plus another node on the opposite corner to provide a parallel edge for an lift out abutment. Maybe an asymmetrical sweeping curve to connect the two nodes? Something like:
I could stop over with some templates and long flexible lath to lay this out.
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but I’m wondering how you will connect the yard to the main layout. Lift out? Drop down? Also curious if you will use a Ross 4 way for the yard.
@Tom Tee posted:John, When you layout the deck material for the yard would you still have in the back of your mind to be considering an engine servicing yard on the opposite side of that portion of the room?
If so Maybe build in a node for an abutment like we did on the main layout corner. Plus another node on the opposite corner to provide a parallel edge for an lift out abutment. Maybe an asymmetrical sweeping curve to connect the two nodes? Something like:
I could stop over with some templates and long flexible lath to lay this out.
Always open to expansion possibilities, and perhaps a consultation before I stick the top on would be useful.
@Lehigh74 posted:Not sure if it was mentioned before, but I’m wondering how you will connect the yard to the main layout. Lift out? Drop down? Also curious if you will use a Ross 4 way for the yard.
I'm considering a hinged section, don't know if it will drop down or hinge up. I have two Ross 4-way switches for the eight tracks in the yard, they'll be fed by the two tracks coming off the main layout table.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Dan, the upper deck is indeed noisier, and I'm going to be addressing that. I have several ideas on the noise suppression, we'll see.
Looking forward to having the extra yard space, still some miles to go.
Thanks for making that mistake before I did! I'll cross that off my plans.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Always open to expansion possibilities, and perhaps a consultation before I stick the top on would be useful.
I'm considering a hinged section, don't know if it will drop down or hinge up.
Ever consider a corner table on castors? Swing open sideways. I'm sure Tom will have a plan.
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Thanks for making that mistake before I did!
Yep, I was pretty sure it would be noisier, but I think putting some sound block material on the underside will tame it a lot. In any case, right now it's not nearly as loud as Fastrack! 
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Ever consider a corner table on castors? Swing open sideways. I'm sure Tom will have a plan.
I think swing open sideways would be more complicated than simply a bridge between the two.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'm considering a hinged section, don't know if it will drop down or hinge up. I have two Ross 4-way switches for the eight tracks in the yard, they'll be fed by the two tracks coming off the main layout table.
If you are going for a drop down or hinge up, I highly recommend you read Mr. Barrett’s Backshop column in OGR Magazine April/May 2014. I copied his design and it had worked well.
How frequently will you need access ?
If the span is relatively small and will not need to be accessed more than once or twice a year, you may want to consider a simple lift-out rather than a hinged section.
The lift-out is also under consideration, I can use locating pins to insure exact alignment. You're right, I doubt I'll need to get back there a lot, and I can still duck under. I go in the middle a lot more, so the lift-bridge is really earning it's keep there.
Looks like another test bench to me. Keep up the good work.
Charlie
I have eleven bridges most over access ways some which are wired with mechanical provision to be lifted out but I choose not to. I simply position a roll away chair or stool under the track and swing back and forth. Simplicity makes my day.
One example, The height of the lifted bridge and the seat position work perfectly:
How-a-bout the two track lift out becomes a four track lift out? I am concerned about how much length the dual 4 ways will consume.
If the lift out was four track the each track would only need one switch on the other side. And the tracks can be splayed. They do not have to be parallel on the bridge. The bridge could be keystone in shape. Even wrap around the nose like so:
Maybe even chop up a 4 way to free the switches.
A tri-wye arrangement of three curved switches can make 4 sidings out of one feeder as below:
There are always custom made three rail turnouts:
Met GRJ recently and got the tour. Reminds me of meeting Phil Klop some years ago and getting the tour of his home layout. Mark
Plans change...
The yard is under construction, but it got changed up. Gone are the two 4-way switches and they were replaced with a bunch of #6 switches and a "Y" that allow a configuration with longer usable yard tracks. The switches will actually be pushed back to the main table or on the bridge section, the whole 12 foot yard will now be usable track space. Also, the yard went from 8 tracks to 9 tracks.
Looks nice, John!
A master craftsman at work! It looks great!
-Greg
@Greg Houser posted:A master craftsman at work! It looks great!
Too bad I'm just the goof with the camera phone, and not the real master craftsman! 
Hopefully I'll be able to get my switches fairly quickly and get the yard up and running.
Nice change, John... you can never have enough yard space!!!
I knew that going in Paul, this was planned practically from the beginning. It just took a few months to organize the room and take care of other priorities.
After this gets laying flat, I'm considering double-decking my hidden yard tracks at the back with another set above them.
And here I thought that was you with the sander, John!! I couldn’t make it look that good!
That's a great looking yard, John! Smooth, I like it better than with the specialty switches. The location with the rest of your layout blends well and I see now why you wanted that lift out section.
Beautiful, John. I absolutely love how it is coming together!
Peter
John,
I hope you have used all of your leg assemblies... see what happens when you have extras around-lots of work !!!!
Good place for a yard - a very useful yard it shall be.
Looks nice John. I like the new track arrangement too, one can never have enough yard space. You are lucky to have Tom nearby to lend a hand too. (Or do most of the work in this case) 
Next you can blast a hole through the wall do a run around the yard outside! 
Bob
Oh wow John, I sort of got lost on which topic this one was as there are a few layout topics I have been following. Nice fix for the yard.
Thanks guys, I'm really looking forward to having more yard space, it's a weakness in my initial plan. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have figured out a way to have a lower level hidden yard. However, that ship has sailed.
Looking great John! Its nice to have friends like Tom to be able to help you out. I like your idea of double layer yard tracks! I like others will be sitting here on the side and keep watching!
Beautiful benchwork and layout, John.
John,
I too regret not adding the yard space in my current layout, when I move the plan will get expanded to include yard space as well as lower storage even if it takes a small helix to accomplish.
Looking good, John. Can't have enough yard space, can't have enough yard tracks and yard tracks can't be too long.
More work today, made some nice progress.
Dropped the wood on and this is the process for creating the curved edges.
After the tracing, fire up the jigsaw and cut to our edge design.
This is a very valuable piece of real estate, a signed Tom Tee layout!
Tom insisted that we add a little bump-out "just in case" I decide to stick an O72 curve to yet more benchwork and who knows what!
I figured I'd better disown the idea, my better half might not be amused.
We trace all the cross-members from below, then turn over the sheets and drill small holes. This allows us to map out on the top where the beams are to nail down the top.
Next step is to route the Homasote edge after applying it, getting ready for the support blocks and fascia to be added.
All cleaned up, I have to add a couple hundred screws and then apply the filler to create a smooth surface.
This is the lip that the removable bridge will rest on, before fitting the bridge, we'll add the J-channel to protect the edge of the Homasote so it won't get dog eared.
Looks good John. By the way, whoever built your house did a great job on that wall. Looks extremely straight.
John, Just tell the CinC she will have so much more to see if you add additional trackage and destinations.
@romiller49 posted:Looks good John. By the way, whoever built your house did a great job on that wall. Looks extremely straight.
It doesn't look nearly as straight when you're here. There's quite a bit of wave to it.
@Ron_S posted:John, Just tell the CinC she will have so much more to see if you add additional trackage and destinations.
It's all in good fun, actually she has no issues with my hobby, so I really have no complaints!
Hi John - how messy was it when you routed the edge of the Homasote. What bit did u use on the router?
Bob, it's not as messy as you think, holding the vacuum right below it sucks up a majority of the dust. It still requires cleanup, but then all the stuff you do building a layout requires cleanup.
The bit is a straight Formica bit with the bearing on the bottom. The bearing rolls on the plywood and it trims the Homasote to the same line.
Looks great John and Tom. I see a curve in your future, bending around in front of the sliding door to the wall on the other side.
Chair rail in the basement? I guess it went well with the dress up columns. My wife stays busy quilting so she's never quite sure what I'm up to down in the basement.
I love curved layout perimeters - and you have a master - Tom Tee.
Why use Homasote in a yard area?
And, is the bump-out section where the a turnout will lead to the lift bridge to cross the isle, or what is its function?
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Looks great John and Tom. I see a curve in your future, bending around in front of the sliding door to the wall on the other side.
Chair rail in the basement? I guess it went well with the dress up columns.
Yep, you never know what might pop up on the end of that curve. I think Tom was just trying to let me know what the next project is.
The chair rail came with the house. I removed it on the opposite wall in that area where I'm putting shelves, but since it wasn't in the way for the main layout or this yard extension, I couldn't see going to the trouble of ripping it off. I kinda' wish I'd ripped it all off when the basement was empty, it's just a dust catcher, nothing more.
@Paul Kallus posted:I love curved layout perimeters - and you have a master - Tom Tee.
Why use Homasote in a yard area?
And, is the bump-out section where the a turnout will lead to the lift bridge to cross the isle, or what is its function?
It's great that the yard will match the main layout area with the fascia, etc. The Homasote helped level things, and I had it left over anyway. The bump-out will lead to a ??? It's really there in case I change my mind about yet more expansion. Tom had a great idea, we put a turnout there and suspend a broken locomotive in pieces from wire down to a bucket on the floor.
Yes, I saw your earlier post about the previous owners. I guess they had a vision. I know what you mean about dust collectors, I just painted the wainscoat molding in our foyer. Took some doing to get the top of the molding clean.
Homosote does make for a flat, consistent surface and it's easy to attach things to it. You guys are going to have to fill in ???, I have a bruise on my hip just looking at it.
Well, I don't walk back there too much, but I am contemplating adding the switch to nowhere just for fun to it. I think I'd pin the switch so it couldn't be thrown into the "out" position by mistake. I can just see it now, backing a string of my Vision Line Tank Cars onto that siding and having them cascade to the ceramic floor!
Some of the bit styles I used on john's Layout.
Router bit with bottom tracing bearing.
Router bits with top and bottom bearing.
When working with decorative hard woods or finished material like laminates I use a square bearing so it will not spin against the material.
You can add square bearings to your existing bits.
Or you could do a "fake" turnout and save a switch and the possibility of a disaster.
@Tom Tee posted:When working with decorative hard woods or finished material like laminates I use a square bearing so it will not spin against the material.
You can add square bearings to your existing bits.
Love the square bearings, never saw those before. Many years ago I did some Formica tops when Formica was all the rage, and I still have the bits I used for that work, but no square bearings.
Where did you get the homesote John?
@Tom Tee posted:Some of the bit styles I used on john's Layout.
I've done a lot of woodworking, but had never seen that design - thanks. The shearing action probably leaves a smooth cut.
Where do you source them?
Also, how long do they last? (Looks like they aren't easily resharpened.)
Duck, They are Infinity Mega Flush brand, available at better wood shops and Amazon. They provide a nice clean edge. Great for hardwood and expensive projects. Not really needed for bench work. They cost more than normal and last more than normal. I do not resharpen bits, Just move them to the back of the drawer.
It's a down shear trim bit. Tom's are top of the line Whiteside but I'm not sure if those specific bits are still available. Their ultimate trim bits are around $160 each, but compared to a Woodworker II saw blade they are still reasonable for the results. For my bench work a $35 Freud works ok.
My bad, I'm not familiar with that brand.
Homasote availability can be discovered by calling the Homasote mfg in NJ. They will let you know who the distributor is in your neck of the woods. Then call that distributor and ask them which retailer handles Homasote in your market.
Check with a better real lumber yard. HD and Lowe's can be variable in which store carries which product.
Even if you find warped Homasote, negotiate a better price and store it flat. It will assume the surface on which it is laying within two weeks.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:
Changed up the freight yard switch matrix. Now that I have a wider bridge, it was practical to use the 4-way switches that I already have, so I just need to pick up one #6 RH switch and I'm all set.
A few comments on the yard John. Not sure how you plan to use it but....
1- I don't see a run around for backing out an engine that pulls into the yard. I know you can run in both directions on the layout so adding a couple of switches between tracks 4 & 5 (from the top), might be beneficial.
2- Do you have enough lead track so that you don't foul the main when working the yard?
Bob
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:Where did you get the homesote John?
I got it at HD several years ago. However, when I was in HD a couple days ago, there was a stack of it in the lumber section.
@RSJB18 posted:A few comments on the yard John. Not sure how you plan to use it but....
1- I don't see a run around for backing out an engine that pulls into the yard. I know you can run in both directions on the layout so adding a couple of switches between tracks 4 & 5 (from the top), might be beneficial.
2- Do you have enough lead track so that you don't foul the main when working the yard?
Bob
1: Tom and I were discussing "escape switches" between some of the yard tracks, that would be easy to add.
2: I have all the lead that I have room for, so I don't have much of an option to add more.
I figured you have thought this through John. Just armchair modeling here
Everything looks great !
Given the space available for the yard, I tried to use all I could. Whatever happens here has to happen in this space.
John,
Like in the real world, you make do with what you got.
I like the yard extension, I'm keeping all my wyes left from my layout just for a bigger yard in the future at whatever location we wind up at.
Gunrunner John, the new yard is Fantastic, and very creative, you are blessed to have a great carpenter friend for help and ideas. Good tools to work with are a gift, one never has enough tools. Coupled with your electronic capabilities, this will be a fun to run model railroad and thank you for the updates. Happy Railroading Everyone
Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to having more room to play. In checking track spacing, etc. it appears I "may" be able to squeeze in ten tracks on my yard! Why not, never have enough yard space! 
John, for what it's worth to you, I was able to fit 7 tracks on a 24" wide shelf using 3 3/8" center to center track spacing.
Mine is double-deck, too. 
With a little help from the peanut gallery maybe, just maybe, we can encourage John to swing the 180 bridge now for increased yard space and additional engine facilities.
Go for it, John!! The peanuts have spoken. 😉
@Tom Tee posted:With a little help from the peanut gallery maybe, just maybe, we can encourage John to swing the 180 bridge now for increased yard space and additional engine facilities.
Let's leave the peanut gallery out of this! I want to get this part finished before I start adding more benchwork!
@Bob posted:John, for what it's worth to you, I was able to fit 7 tracks on a 24" wide shelf using 3 3/8" center to center track spacing.
I mapped it out, and it looks like 10 tracks fit just right. Shaving 1/8" doesn't allow for an 11th, so I'll stick with the 3 1/2" spacing.
@Bob posted:Mine is double-deck, too.
I don't have enough space to get down to a second level, that would be about a 10" drop from the surface. I suppose that bump-out could lead to an O72 circle of track to get me down to the lower level, that would be interesting.
Gunrunner John, I do not know if you’ve ever been to Bobs home (shown above) to see his really cool layout, however if I remember, a train can actually go in a tunnel and. have 6 or so curved siding tracks that will hold entire trains, one storage yard above the other, and one way in, and one way out, therefore allowing Point to Point realistic operation. One of his main features is Horseshoe Curve, a fantastic scenic site. Your layout is coming right along. Happy Railroading Everyone.
While I'm aiming for "nice", I have no illusions of matching some of the amazing layouts I see here and elsewhere, I have to temper my expectations. My space for the yard simply did not allow for entry/exit on both ends, so that ain't happening.
Moving along, got all the blocks for the base layer of fascia cut, getting out the clamps, PL3 adhesive, and nail gun for the next step, mounting them under the table.
Looks like you have room for a helix. Could go up or down or both.
Charlie
I think a helix permanently in front of the door would be a major problem!
Hi John ,
some nice work you guys are doing , I’m glad to see you are enjoying your layout.
Alex
Thanks Alex, I an eager to get my yard functional so I can break out some of the freight cars and have them available.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:While I'm aiming for "nice", I have no illusions of matching some of the amazing layouts I see here and elsewhere, I have to temper my expectations. My space for the yard simply did not allow for entry/exit on both ends, so that ain't happening.
Moving along, got all the blocks for the base layer of fascia cut, getting out the clamps, PL3 adhesive, and nail gun for the next step, mounting them under the table.
Ah John, nice is in the eye of the beholder. So what you have no entry/exit on both ends. Just get a great switcher in there to move stuff about. Whenever I get to building mine, I just have spurs on my design. No space for anything at all, but that'll do. Just needs some kind of functionality to provide something than a loop or loops. I remember someone saying(or most people), to have at least two main lines or separate running tracks so there is something other than watching one engine doing all the work. I just have to get things moving along. Guess I need a switcher for that, lol.
You can never have too many clamps, John!
"To Infinity! and beyond!"
George
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Ah John, nice is in the eye of the beholder. So what you have no entry/exit on both ends. Just get a great switcher in there to move stuff about. Whenever I get to building mine, I just have spurs on my design. No space for anything at all, but that'll do. Just needs some kind of functionality to provide something than a loop or loops. I remember someone saying(or most people), to have at least two main lines or separate running tracks so there is something other than watching one engine doing all the work. I just have to get things moving along. Guess I need a switcher for that, lol.
I have a bunch of switchers, both diesel and steam, so I'm set there. I'm contemplating some escape switches on several of the yard tracks so I can drive stuff in and then move the locomotive out from the end of the yard track. I think I can cut down the Ross Regular 100/101 switches so they'll work with 3.5" between centers, at least it looks like it'll work in my layout program.
Exciting! I think the most fun I’ve had is building the layout and fixing broken stuff. We used to have about 6 guys come over band run trains all at once which allowed for plenty of chances to have something to fix. Covid and some not surviving getting to 90 yo changed all that.
I'm hoping things return to normal, it's fun to get a few people together, looking forward to that again.
We have been fortunate, the club was restricted to 10 or less at once until this past May, I am hoping the current flare up does not restrict us again.
I live too far from club members to have run sessions, so when I move closer I am hoping to be able to have run days or nights with a group there.
What in the world are you building there?
Additional research would be needed, but perhaps if you leave them in the sun they multiply.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:Additional research would be needed, but perhaps if you leave them in the sun they multiply.
With the pile of those clamps that Tom has, I don't think he wants them to multiply, they're run him out of his house! In any case, the clamp crisis has passed, the blocks are all glued and ready for the first layer of fascia.
That is how I make curved valleys. Note the parallel lines.
The valley rough cut is inverted so as to align the top edge along the flat line of the table. This was for a demo I did at the Indy show a few years ago.
Then the next day I remove the clamps and cut along the lines with a fine tooth metal jig saw blade to make the outside fascia frame for a deep valley like this:
This is an elongated version valley for a long trestle from awhile ago.
More progress on the freight yard, got the bridge section cut, now you can see how the whole thing will come together. Obviously, more work to do, but I'm getting excited!
A couple of places have very sharp curves in the fascia, those had to be water treated to get the tight bends. After a couple of days drying, the fascia should take the new set and I'll glue it all on. Right now it's tacked or clamped to keep the shape.
It's neat working with you John. I make a mess, leave tools and sawdust all over the place then you clean up every thing nice and neat. My wife may just ask you to do the same here!
John/Tom,
Thanks for sharing. It's fascinating to see this layout unfold.
Mike
That tight nose is a 2" radius. Working with 3/8" bendable plywood I sand a tad off the back side to alleviate the squeeze a bit then mark the start and end of the curve. Take the material to a wash basin and hold it like a hammock and allow steaming hot water to flow over it for several minutes, first the front then the back, reversing several times. Spend ten minutes or so.
The take the fascia piece to the job and clamp the starting end and hand form it to the start of the nose. At this point go very slowly and firmly but gently bend the plywood around the nose while rubbing it with a dripping rag of steaming hot water.
Keep a quiet room so you can listen for any crackling. If you hear crackling it was not hot or wet enough or you are going too quickly. Correct your manner and continue. You should not hear crackling or see separation of the surface. It never hurts to re-wet it under hot water. I am talking hot hot. Take your time, the finished project is worth it.
Two other tight corners:
A waffle bottom module:
If you have lot of corners to do you can use a tall turkey fryer. If you want info I can explain.
Turkey fryers will allow you to wrap 3/4" plywood around a 1 gallon paint can:
Looking fantastic!!
You need to publish your work TomTee! PLEASE
Tom is certainly a wealth of woodworking ideas, and I can say for sure that progress would be much slower here without his expertise in the mix! 
John, I think you mean "without".
Chris
LVHR
TomTee is definitely an arteeest with wood! If I learn half of what he knows, I'll be lightyears ahead of where I am now!
Chris
LVHR
Wow! looking great so far. Glad you're enjoying your layout.
Alex
I am adding items to my list of wants for my next layout john, Hopefully when we move I will have more room to expand and layer my future trainroom.
It won't have Tom's elegant curves but I hope to have 3 levels, a helix or 2 and more around the room type layout. I'm just glad I built my current one on modular benches so I can reuse them.
Ron, I considered a helix, but I really don't have the space to fit one it. In order to run the big stuff, it would have to be O72 curves and be over six feet around, that takes a lot of space.
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