@MartyE posted:Do the requests have to be existing tooling or is / will there be opportunity for new tooling?
For now, we are most confident of custom run projects of existing tooling. Of course various enhancements of existing tooling should be expected from MTH as been the norm of the past several years.
@JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:Thank you!
OGR Forumites:
Why not give us some suggestions of what you would like to see MTH Electric Trains to produce and let us dealers know? The minimum quantities for custom runs isn't unreasonable and if there is demand for a particular idea it just may become reality. We have a bunch of ideas, but we are going to need your support of those ideas to make those ideas reality.
Here is my suggestion, which shouldn't be too hard since it could be constructed with a combination of existing MTH subway tooling (r-17 ends, r-36 sides, along with the doors from the r-11s) -
R-15 NYC subway in Maroon colors-
Maybe we could start a separate thread for all such suggestions.
@EscapeRocks posted:Please stop already. All the information you are postulating has been in various releases, including a podcast/you tube where the two guys continuing discussed these things.
If you bother to do some very basic research, you can find it like a bunch of us did. I have no idea why you keep popping up when DCS or MTH is mentioned, only to explain why you don't buy MTH.
As far as the so called separate companies you mention above.... again, you have absolutely no idea.
The old MTH was split into three spinoff companies, one of which is for parts and one of which is for DCS. It’s in the press release.
In the Trainworld presentation a couple of weeks ago, Rich Foster clearly stated that MTH will have absolutely no room for inventory at their new facility. He made the point that if you want something, preorder it because there will be no extras available at the new MTH.
I would not look for much new tooling or any new models being produced. I think this is the only way that Mike can keep MTH alive going forward. At first what we'll see is a lot of limited production runs of custom models from existing tooling.
If things go well we may see something new way down the road. Remember, This new company needs to produce enough motive power to keep the DCS group in business. Yes, I know Atlas will be licensing DCS for there O gauge offerings, however, Atlas alone can't carry DCS as there O gauge production runs are not very large.
All in all this is good news, as it keeps some competition in the O gauge market. But, I think the days of 150 page MTH catalogs are over. 
@Landsteiner posted:"Do we know the minimum quantities?
"
Many dealers are offering special runs of 25 locos. I assume rolling stock might be similar or a bit higher number. Used to be you needed 500 for the LCCA and TCA special runs. Apparently advances that lower the cost of decorating make smaller runs feasible, or so I'm told.
Well I think the lean and agile Post Mike MTH can do this limited production items for dealers. Get with your local dealer!! Anyone interested in Quebec North Shore and Labrador coal hoppers by MTH? I’m game if a dealer can be persuaded to make a run. Seriously. They can go with my QNSL Dash -9
I would love it !
Scott Mann has used this business model successfully for over 40 years.
So why can't it work for MTH?
@AlanRail posted:Scott Mann has used this business model successfully for over 40 years.
So why can't it work for MTH?
Sure it work . It could work very well if people take advantage of it. For example, I would like some QNSL coal hoppers. Will Lionel produce them? Who knows but I will buy some if a dealer can produce a limited run from Post Mike MTH. I recommend that we have a section or thread where people can team up and commit for special MTH runs so we can make them come true.
@JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:OGR Forumites:
Why not give us some suggestions of what you would like to see MTH Electric Trains to produce and let us dealers know? The minimum quantities for custom runs isn't unreasonable and if there is demand for a particular idea it just may become reality. We have a bunch of ideas, but we are going to need your support of those ideas to make those ideas reality.
I have a few thoughts for products that haven't been done in a long time... Please let me know your thoughts!
- Railking Scale F40PH in a plain Phase III Amtrak (This hasn't been done in a while, all the new PS3 models are in different phases or heritage schemes...)
- Railking NYC RDC Budd set (last time it was done was the PS1 era)
- Railking NYC MU set (last done 2008)
Long shots:
- Premier R-1 Subway set (last done in 2004)
- Premier AA16 AFB/NOHAB diesel (only done once 2009)
- Premier NJT APL-44 (AEM-7 mold)
Bryce
@AlanRail posted:Scott Mann has used this business model successfully for over 40 years.
So why can't it work for MTH?
As long as there is a catalog of the products being offered, I'm fine with it.
In line with the OP’s request for suggested special runs; since JR Junction is in New York State, perhaps some freight equipment in the livery of current or defunct New York shortlines. Two that immediately come to mind are Bath & Hammondsport and Greenwich & Johnsonville.
Curt
@Arthur posted:With color schemes that won't match the actual production.
Their recent release of CP 6644. In a nut shell it's lime green instead of army green.
But all in all I'm happy to hear that MTH will still be producing in some form or another.
@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:- Railking Scale F40PH in a plain Phase III Amtrak (This hasn't been done in a while, all the new PS3 models are in different phases or heritage schemes...)
Lionel did one a few years ago.
Well, this is truly great news! While I've bought many MTH Premier items over the years, both rolling stock and engines, most of the larger Premier steamers require O72 minimum curve diameters, which I don't have and don't anticipate ever having. Consequently, with the exception of smaller steamers, e.g., Atlantics, I've always bought RailKing steamers, which I've been very pleased with. I'm hoping that these plans will result in continued production of RailKing steamers with PS3 (and perhaps any future versions of Proto-Sound beyond PS3). I couldn't be more pleased. Hopefully, this is good news for the dealers as well.
Chris
My concern now is that can they DELIVER on all these new offerings... 
@Trainlover9943 posted:As long as there is a catalog of the products being offered, I'm fine with it.
If the new lean MTH is going to concentrate on short runs and hobby shop specials, I doubt there will be catalogs. Just periodic web/email announcements and/or brochures.
It's a brave, new world...
Rusty
Just got this in an email from MTH. It sure looks like MTH is producing their own offerings, so all may not be 'dealer only' production runs? Note that it says to contact your authorized MTH dealer, not just one specific dealer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 18, 2021 - M.T.H. Electric Trains will be releasing several limited-edition releases of the Premier 55 Ton All Steel Drop Bottom Gondola Car in four different liveries. The cars will be available in two different car numbers and will begin arriving on M.T.H. Authorized Retailer shelves in December 2021.
Check out each of these offerings HERE.
These items are available to order from your local M.T.H. Authorized Retailer.
And there was another one was in the sidebar:
M.T.H. Electric Trains will be releasing several limited-edition releases of the RailKing Boxcars w/Power Meter in four different liveries later this Fall. These unique releases, including entries in our series of Halloween and Christmas series, are expected to arrive in October 2021.
Check out each of these offerings HERE.
These items are available to order from your local M.T.H. Authorized Retailer.
As for catalogs, for what these must cost in full color, printing, shipping, distributing to dealers, etc. I am truly surprised ALL the train companies haven't gone to an 'online only' catalog by now. This has to be an enormous expense, even more when putting out two per year. I like the print copies as much as anyone, but I think there will come a time when it is just no longer cost effective to produce a print catalog. Who knows, maybe the money saved from going to online only catalogs could be put to new tooling for some new and never before produced O gauge items?
As posted by J&R Junction earlier, tends to confirm my earlier comment that a great deal of the RailKing line of engines will just be warmed over locos using existing tooling. New scaled down selectively compressed tooling for RailKing is very expensive even if the tooling and design work already exists in the Premier line. Premier is probably more profitable than RailKing but does RailKing's volume contribute more to the bottom line? Only the insiders know.
So while there may be a wait for newly tooled RK sized (meaning not full scale) locos:
1) Continue the 44 tonner but offer it 3 ways: with DCS, with a simple E unit, and without any electronics (for ERR, DCC fans, & others)
2) Offer a RailKing sized PRR E-6 Atlantic steam engine - possibly in a mix of brass, ferrous metal & plastic? - if it can be done w/o expensive tooling costs, and again in DCS and conventional. This engine has never been done in a RK size before and PRR stuff always sells well.
3) Offer RailKing sized NH DL109 & EP3, and a PRR P5 again in DCS and conventional.
Rationale: 44 tonner limitless possibilities as far as road names and the choice of electronics (and concomitant pricing levels) broadens the potential customer base.
The others: electrics and northeastern RR's always have been good bread & butter sellers and the above reasoning applies to the electronics.
Just my $.02 WORTH.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Lionel did one a few years ago.
Yes they did (2016) for ~$550. I missed out on it, shame on me....
From what I recall, many had issues out of the box (to name a few: wire harness rubbing a flywheel, drive mechanism issues, marker lights not working, etc)
To my knowledge, MTH has not made a plain-Jane, Railking scale Phase III since the early 2000s.
There were two recent Railking engines with Phase III but they had "extras":
30-20471-1 - Dells Hiawatha with all the logos on the front
30-20602-1 - 50th anniversary logo
In my opinion, a Railking Scale Amtrak would be an attractive offer. These engines can take 0-31 curves, they have PS3, and would cost less than a Premier or Legacy version. Phase III is always popular so I thought that would be a good paint scheme. Just my two cents.
Bryce
The more MTH the more competition and the better for consumers! Let's hope they succeed.
I’d love to see some early 1900 Chicago subway trains. Not ever done.
Picture removed by moderator due to copyright
@Madockawando posted:In the Trainworld presentation a couple of weeks ago, Rich Foster clearly stated that MTH will have absolutely no room for inventory at their new facility. He made the point that if you want something, preorder it because there will be no extras available at the new MTH.
So price gouging on the secondary market will probably continue albeit at a lower level (if we're lucky).
I'm pretty sure they could get storage if they needed it, to say they have "absolutely no room for inventory" sounds like a cop out, and yes I know storage comes with a price.
Any word on the fate of the tinplate lines?
Jerry
@baltimoretrainworks posted:So price gouging on the secondary market will probably continue albeit at a lower level (if we're lucky).
Any word on the fate of the tinplate lines?
Jerry
I don’t recall any mention of the Timplate lines. If they still have the tooling perhaps a dealer can be persuaded to produce some. I would like some O gauge rolling stock to pull behind my 226e
@Allegheny posted:I don't see what few mom and pop shops that are left will be able to continue to carry MTH products - simply due to the warranty obligations by the seller.
These shops aren't geared for repairs unless they hire a staff person to address issues. Hiring of a staff person even part-time isn't cost effective.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, just the massive downsizing of the remaining MTH organization is sure to greatly reduce the amount of MTH product!
@Madockawando posted:Finding good repair help is tough right now. But since there are no catalogs and all orders will be dealer directed special runs it seems that any New MTH inventory Mm and Pop have to sell will have to come from teaming with larger dealers who can fund special runs .
Maybe Mike/MTH has the production QA data to share with dealers that makes them comfortable handling the small amount of warranty issues. So far a lot of dealers seem to have jumped on the small custom run bandwagon.
@modeltrainsparts posted:2) Offer a RailKing sized PRR E-6 Atlantic steam engine.
Why? Their existing Pennsylvania E6 Atlantic already runs on O31.
@NYC 428 posted:I would not look for much new tooling or any new models being produced. I think this is the only way that Mike can keep MTH alive going forward. At first what we'll see is a lot of limited production runs of custom models from existing tooling.
I'm beginning to think the new "lean" MTH with limited and dealer custom runs is simply a method of keeping the unsold tooling active (and not lost or scattered in a warehouse somewhere) until a buyer comes along for the remainder of the company.
Rusty
Sure the existing Atlantics may run O31, but they overwhelm other RK proportioned engines and traditional sized Madison cars.
@modeltrainsparts posted:Sure the existing Atlantics may run O31, but they overwhelm other RK proportioned engines and traditional sized Madison cars.
I don’t think they do. I have a RK 2-8-0 and some RK Madison coaches and they look fine together with my PRR E6.
FYI - The RK 2-8-0 is either scale sized or very close to it. It is not selectively compressed like the RK 4-6-2 K4s Pacific. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
@JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:For now, we are most confident of custom run projects of existing tooling. Of course various enhancements of existing tooling should be expected from MTH as been the norm of the past several years.
Hey JR! What are the odds of us getting a custom run of Quebec North Shore and Labrador quad coal hoppers? I would order at least four and I am willing to help design them.
Guys....I am getting PLENTY of alerts to this thread. Keep the discussion to MTH. Speculation about Lionel, catalogs, etc. belong in another thread. Go start one just not in this thread.
@Rusty Traque posted:I'm beginning to think the new "lean" MTH with limited and dealer custom runs is simply a method of keeping the unsold tooling active (and not lost or scattered in a warehouse somewhere) until a buyer comes along for the remainder of the company.
Rusty
Maybe, but the list of engine tooling sold off to Atlas
Diesel Locomotives
holds zero interest for me. I'd rather see more VO-1000s and Baldwin AS-16s ( yes I know MTH made everything as AS-616s whether they really had 6 wheel trucks or not ) Alco RSDs and other oddball engines they have the tooling for. I can't be the only one sick of F-3s.
@Rusty Traque posted:I'm beginning to think the new "lean" MTH with limited and dealer custom runs is simply a method of keeping the unsold tooling active (and not lost or scattered in a warehouse somewhere) until a buyer comes along for the remainder of the company.
Rusty
I agree. I think (roomers I don't have any inside knowledge) there may have been some interest in MTH after Mike first announced his intention to retire, however, aside from the little that Atlas bought and the sale of the HO and S lines interest waned. We will never know the real reason, but some factors could be price, insisting in selling the company whole, wanting royalties on every item sold and not including DCS as part of the sale.
So as Rusty states we will see limited custom runs using existing tooling, further evidence of limited supply is the announcement that the company will not have any storage space for stock. So dealers orders will be filled to whatever the contract calls for and not one additional piece.
Hopefully, they will get enough orders for power units to keep DCS in business, because a few hundred units wont do the trick.
Third Rail is different, all there steam models are hand made brass, with very little tooling required and they use TMCC as there operating system. This enables them to produce a few short runs a year without warrying about supporting the company producing there operating system.
MTH has a lot to offer, subway sets, steam locomotives like the triplex and European models not to mention tin plate. Hopeful, someone will come along and revive the company.
Best hobby news of the year!!!!
@JET posted:This reminds me of what the owner of my local hobby store told me a long time ago. They were early MTH authorized dealers but stopped when MTH changed their policy and had some sort of minimum dollar amount you had to purchase each year to be a dealer ( they were "pre-selling" their production, putting much of the monetary risk on the dealer. ) Now they seem to be taking that further and producing only custom orders for dealers without a catalog. I guess if they can get enough dealers to agree on something new to be produced, it'll get produced, which is great for PRR, Santa Fe, UP, NYC modelers, for those of us who want a CNJ Babyface Baldwin, not so much.
This is one of the reasons I quit buying MTH. When MTH got started they seemed to be pro-dealer. I’m very faithful to my LHS. When MTH changed their dealership policy, I cut back on my purchases.
Steve
@dPrasse posted:Hoping the H10-44 switch engines stay around !
fantastic loco !
Agreed! I have a Monon one myself.
After reading through the 4 pages of this thread here are my thoughts.
Every so often a business needs to be right sized. This seems to be what MTH has done.
Build to Order is a smart move. Significantly reduces costs to manufacturer. Little to no unsold inventory.
Custom runs .... check out the MTH Products thread. Remember, this is day 1 of the new MTH. As to my wish, I would like to see a Premier 1860-1880 Camelback style track inspection locomotive, with 4-2-2 wheel arrangement.
As to long term interest in these trains, judging from the photos of forum members we are a fairly old bunch of guys. In 10-15 years many of us will be gone. An In Memorandum thread already exists.
For spare parts, a Pareto Analysis would likely show the top items as boards, traction tires, LED's and maybe draw bars. Still, Midge will be missed.
Risks in the coming years is qualified service personnel. The forum has, in my humble opinion, 10 or fewer members that offer great technical advice and repair service. The rest of us are writing, looking for answers.
As to catalogs, I really will miss them.
All things considered, today was a great day for operators of MTH trains.
Bill
@SPSF posted:Nice, now hopefully they'll improve some of the Scaleking models.
SD60, C30-7 & FP45 all need scale fuel tanks.
SW1500 & SD45 both need the Proper paint scheme of the railroad which owned the largest number.
In addition to your suggestions, I'd love to see the 6 axle scale sized offerings either get an optional flanged inner wheelset included in the box or the ability to switch the inner and middle wheelsets. Atlas does this with their locomotives. The same applies to several of the Premier 6 axle diesels that they've retained, Alco PAs and DL-109s, SD9s, etc.
"Why not give us some suggestions of what you would like to see MTH Electric Trains to produce and let us dealers know?"
19th Century rolling stock
36' Reefers
64' Woodsided passenger coaches
Western Maryland Scenic Railway new passenger cars and C&O steamer.
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