NEWS: MTH Electric Trains to continue producing Premier, Railking and One Gauge trains

For the most part, I respectfully disagree with Bill, even though he too is from upstate NY (i.e. north of Westchester County).

The lifeblood of this hobby has been the local train store. For me it was the department store layout next to Santa, the layout in the window of a hardware store known as "Noah's Ark," and long gone LHS such as Sperry's, Sam's Hobby , and  Ed Guth Hobbys, all in Syracuse in the 50's. Like fishing, they dangled the bait and my dad and I got hooked. (Syracuse still has a LHS,  but I at best I infrequently pass through Syracuse on the interstate.

I'm in NW PA now and we have lost two stores in Erie (one recently and one a while ago) and of course Mercer Junction. i.e. no LHS within a reasonable drive to fulfill some immediate need or to  simply talk trains and usually walk out with some "treasure."

Bill is absolutely correct on the demographics, there are far fewer years ahead of many of us (myself included) , that's reality.

The "new" MTH business model may be a wonderful as an academic study,  but does absolutely nothing to for the future of our hobby's future.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

"Why not give us some suggestions of what you would like to see MTH Electric Trains to produce and let us dealers know?"

19th Century rolling stock

36' Reefers

64' Woodsided passenger coaches

According to a large dealer, the 64' Woodside coach tooling was sold to a yet to be announced buyer.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

"Why not give us some suggestions of what you would like to see MTH Electric Trains to produce and let us dealers know?"19th Century rolling stock, 36' Reefers, 64' Woodsided passenger coaches

Additionally, anything that is well detailed from the turn of the century steam era.  Composite hoppers, single sheathed boxcars, composite gondolas.

@rplst8 posted:

In addition to your suggestions, I'd love to see the 6 axle scale sized offerings either get an optional flanged inner wheelset included in the box or the ability to switch the inner and middle wheelsets.  Atlas does this with their locomotives.  The same applies to several of the Premier 6 axle diesels that they've retained, Alco PAs and DL-109s, SD9s, etc.

I looked around in the parts section and was surprised to find the 2 rail - 3 rail version of the               SD-90 MAC truck has blind center drivers and flanged outers, so MTH is / was moving in that direction.

https://mthtrains.com/part/da-2050016

http://extranet.mth-railking.c...loded/20DL18635E.pdf

@JET posted:

I looked around in the parts section and was surprised to find the 2 rail - 3 rail version of the               SD-90 MAC truck has blind center drivers and flanged outers, so MTH is / was moving in that direction.

Yes, I'm aware - which is why I didn't include them in my list of hopes.  AFAIK, all of the modern EMD SD and GP 30 series and newer got Proto-Scale 3-2 trucks, and maybe even a few of the earlier F and GP ones.  For whatever reason, the E6, E8, SD9, six axle Alcos did not.  Proto-Scale 3-2 trucks were introduced around 2006 or 2007 so they're not new by any means.  I definitely would have bought some PRR SD9s if they were, and probably some E8s.  The latest SD24s do have flanged inner/blind center wheelsets I'm told - but they are not convertible to 2-rail for whatever reason.

It would be less possible for an unequal spaced axle truck ( FM Trainmaster,  AS 616 ) to have blind centers unless you only want one driven axle with traction tires and one undriven for power return and the center blind.

I'm not sure what the wheel spacing has to do with it, could you elaborate?

@rplst8 posted:

I'm not sure what the wheel spacing has to do with it, could you elaborate?

I take that back, they'd just have to choose their idlers properly and stretch or compress the spacing.

Has anyone heard specifically where in Elkridge Maryland the move will be too?  Another train idea for MTH would be an Annapolis & Elkridge steamer and cars from the Civil War era.  

Without getting off track, but the nature of retail has changed across the spectrum, shopping malls in some ways were like the local LHS, they were places people hung out, and the stores there literally "fished for customers".  LHS's are great, and I really wish there were a lot more of them, but online retail is the way many or most are shopping now.  I can't say what the future will hold, this is a niche market, but while we don't have LHS, You Tube does a pretty good job of acting to reel people in, something that didn't exist back in the day (sure, there were layout dvd's and VHS tapes, but you had to buy them).  IDK numbers, but a lot of us in the hobby I suspect (I am in my late 50's) came into it well after you had the department store layouts and the local hardware store hawking them and the like. I suspect the market is going to get smaller over time and the new MTH sounds like it is adapting to that, rather than assuming a market size, are doing it build to order. The lack of MTH repair raises a question, if the local LHS continue to decline, what will the online people do? Will they handle it in house, or will they get others to handle warranty repairs?  And will local LHS be required to handle warranty repairs, much like car dealerships, even if the engine wasn't bought there? If so that would be pretty crappy for them.

In terms of what I would like MTH to produce, I am another fan of railking steam, would love to see them continue to produce those. Would love to see some more oddball stuff, like the NYC electrics (S2, etc). Would love to see them do a PS3 version of the old DLW MU's, the old green monsters, I have the older Lionel version, but would love a model of that. I also am fond of small engines, docksiders, plymouths, 44 tonners, but there are already a lot of them out there.

This is a response to John Nagurney.

I am not against local train stores, but here has been my experience.

I currently have an item in for repair (wheel reattachment) at a local train store. I was told this should be a quick turn around. They have had the unit for about six weeks now.

Several years back I took an MTH engine to the same store for repair. They had it for over 100 days and it was returned without the problem being corrected. That was when I hooked up with GGG of this forum. The repair was done in short order and the problem was resolved.

Last Autumn I needed a DCS software update. One of the 10 individuals mentioned previously did the update. I shipped it out on Monday and had it back on Friday.

As to purchasing new MTH product or any other new manufacturer, the local store simply does not have it. However a quick call to any of the advertisers in O Gauge Rail Roading will likely have it. It will be shipped within a day and arriving 3-5 days later.

Some local train stores may handle MTH/DCS or others repairs in an efficient manner, but my local store leaves a lot to be desired.

Bill

So what happened to the 3-2 trucks?  Were they sold with the tooling to Atlas?

@Jdjones24 posted:

Can they just make another run of the Amtrak Pacific Surfliners. That's all I want. Crazies on ebay want ridiculous prices for them.

what I want is another run of the NORX/Nipsco gold "meatball" coalporter hopper cars.  At least a 6-pack.

But overall, great news!

Yeah! I now will feel free to buy some railking and mth products. I was worried about parts/dcs. I hope to continue to see Ma&Pa (and other md railroads) and the Christmas light buildings!

@IC EC posted:

So what happened to the 3-2 trucks?  Were they sold with the tooling to Atlas?

Best guess, Atlas will use it's own design trucks so it can easily swap 3 rail and scale wheel sets.

Arcade and attica 44 tonner! Please and thank you.

It doesn't look like Atlas purchased the Premier SD45T-2 & SD50 - These had the convertible 3-2 trucks.

@SPSF posted:

It doesn't look like Atlas purchased the Premier SD45T-2 & SD50 - These had the convertible 3-2 trucks.

So did the SD70MAC, SD70ACe, SD40-2, U30C, Dash 9, ES44AC, and ES44DC, which they did purchase.

It’s anyone’s guess which trucks they’ll use.

Guys I wouldn't get too excited about this announcement, although it's nice to know that MTH will still be around it will not be in full production.  There is no guarantee that parts will be available, with short runs and no inventory they're no extra locomotives or rolling stock available for parts ( since this is where most extra parts come from).

The company is basically on life support  ,

In time I think you'll see less and less MTH stock at your local dealer as they sell off there inventory.  Only dealers willing to take a gamble on a particular locomotive or piece of rolling stock, will have any product, as I don't think the company itself will  be offering anything for general distribution.

So asking for models here probably won't help, you need to talk to your dealer or the dealers offering specials runs.

Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't take MTH word at face value nor any other of the stakeholders. Instead @NYC 428 is correct and has the real answers.........

You know, it took Mike W. a long time to get MTH up and going, there were probably some folks thinking it would never be a successful operation, Well, I’m a very positive person and I think this is Great news, start small, Grow your plan, listen to your customers, have Customer Satisfaction as your best product and that’s a road to success. You build the product, Quality Control Standards upheld to the highest expectations, the customers will buy, and the happier they are, the more they will buy. It’s all about competition, (MTH made Lionel get competitive in the O gauge marketplace) and a good quality product at a fair price, a good Warranty and a department to take good care of defective products. The better the quality control, the problems of defective products is greatly reduced keeping us, the prospective buyers very happy. I look forward to seeing these products on dealers shelves, made right the first time. Yes, it’s a new day, very refreshing. Happy Railroading Everyone

According to this email from MTH it looks like they will be offering items MTH produces for general distribution.

@TexasSP posted:

Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't take MTH word at face value nor any other of the stakeholders. Instead @NYC 428 is correct and has the real answers.........

Thank you for recognizing that !~!~

@rtr12 posted:

According to this email from MTH it looks like they will be offering items MTH produces for general distribution.

I hadn't read that, but that's good news!

@Bill from Rochester posted:

As to catalogs, I really will miss them.

All things considered, today was a great day for operators of MTH trains.

The old catalogs are still on the MTH website, and you can download pdfs of them, going back over a decade. Lots of RR history in them, too.

MTH continuing in its new form is good news for the hobby. Mark

@RickO posted:

Oldest trick in the book. KISS has been doing it for 40 years.

Recently, KISS has been acquired by Märklin and is marketed as KM-1, very expensive and very nice. Mark

@NYC 428 posted:

So asking for models here probably won't help, you need to talk to your dealer or the dealers offering specials runs.

You mean like the person who started this thread, who is a major MTH dealer and has the ear of the "new" MTH, did?

This is great news.  I've been following the unfolding drama.  I gather the new entity "MTH Electric Trains" is marketing in part via the All Scales Catalog ?  I noticed a Christmas Trolley with LEDs (30-5200) listed but I don't see it for sale or pre-order anywhere.  I'd like to pre-order but I don't know where ? 

@Mike H Mottler posted:

If Midge at MTH stays on in the parts department, MTH-ers will be well served at her desk. Carry on ...

.

I received an email from Midge yesterday in reply to a parts inquiry and she told me she will not be transferring to the new parts division. 

@EscapeRocks posted:

You mean like the person who started this thread, who is a major MTH dealer and has the ear of the "new" MTH, did?

Oh he's not the only "dealer with an ear to the new MTH"

In time all will be revealed.

@NYC 428 posted:

Oh he's not the only "dealer with an ear to the new MTH"

In time all will be revealed.

Oh boy!! “I got a secret!!! I got a secret!”

No secret, just that time reveals all things

We need to just wait and see.

@wmrrfan posted:

Western Maryland Scenic Railway new passenger cars and C&O steamer.  

Hi, wmrrfan.  I know that the artwork has been done for six WMSRR cars.  The Community Model Railroad Club in Frostburg, Maryland has been working with MTH for a number of years on special runs for club fund raisers.  In the past, I got a Northeastern caboose, flatcar with 2 WM lettered pickup trucks, and in 2017, '18, '19, they did 2 different cars each year of the smooth side passenger cars.  I do not know how many they did for each run, but I know Joe with the club worked with MTH on the artwork.    Last year they offered the WM Circus GP38 #501 in leu of a special run.  I got one of those also.

That brings up a question or perhaps observation.  It would seem to me that a club would have to work through a dealer to get a special run done especially when considering the new warranty.  I can see that certainly could be done.

Dear new MTH, I personally would love to see a Green Bay and Western caboose made to go with the GB&W RS’s you’ve built in the past. Although I am mostly familiar with their transfer cabooses, I would be happy with ANY style.

Thank You,  Joel

I have to admit this unnamed buyer thing has got me curious. Usually, such transactions aren’t kept under wraps if the deal is done. What buyer would delay the release of that kind of information and why?

I had been pooh-poohing the suggestion that John Menard or Menards Inc. would be interested in buying any extensive tooling because of his age and the company’s primary purpose (mass-market home improvement). The suggestion that he would purchase the whole of MTH was certainly outlandish, given the scope of MTH’s product lines at the time Mike Wolf announced his intentions in 2020.

But, now, given MTH’s recent info, I can see either John or his company acquiring some or all of the RailKing line, particularly for the production of traditional-sized train sets. Given the impact such an announcement would have on business operations, I could see the company wanting to delay the release of that information, either to allow the company to orient its private shareholders or to get a marketing edge by announcing the deal just prior to the fourth-quarter selling season.

It’s still kind of whimsical idea. But I’m no longer a complete doubter.

@Jim R. posted:

But, now, given MTH’s recent info, I can see either John or his company acquiring some or all of the RailKing line, particularly for the production of traditional-sized train sets. Given the impact such an announcement would have on business operations, I could see the company wanting to delay the release of that information, either to allow the company to orient its private shareholders or to get a marketing edge by announcing the deal just prior to the fourth-quarter selling season.

It’s still kind of whimsical idea. But I’m no longer a complete doubter.

Interesting speculation.  Menards with MTH starter sets would be a huge boost for our hobby.  I really like their buildings.  I just bought  2 more M&M flats to customize, their motel and the strip mall.  They are great values at the prices they're at.

I'll faint dead away if Menard's does anything with locomotives, the support implications are massive!  Right now they have an attractive business model with the stuff they do, it's cheap enough that any issues they simply replace it.

If Menard's was buying the railking line or any part of MTH, I doubt it would be that big a deal to Menard's bottom line either as a cost or as a profit center. They are a big company, and being privately owned, I assume mostly family, they don't have to worry about stock analysts and the like (If Menards were public I doubt they would be putting out the train stuff) so they could do it pretty easily I suspect if they otherwise wanted to. What Menard's does is a wonderful thing, and if they do decide to buy part of MTH would be a good thing, but I don't think the fact we haven't heard who the buyer is indicates it is Menard's doing due diligence and the like, my guess FWIW it is some of the employees taking it over and that what may be holding up final word is things like how it will be financed and the like, not a surprise buyer (This tidbit, and 1.50, won't even get you mugged on the subways any more, they charge a lot more for that privilege these days).

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'll faint dead away if Menard's does anything with locomotives, the support implications are massive!  Right now they have an attractive business model with the stuff they do, it's cheap enough that any issues they simply replace it.

I’m of a similar thought given the infrastructure needed to repair locomotives versus simply replacing (and then tossing) freight cars and buildings.

Like Jim, the unnamed buyer for more of (the rest of?) MTH’s O-gauge tooling is intriguing to me. I’m still of the guess it’s Lionel and the “later this summer” announcement will coincide with some of it showing up in the July catalog.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'll faint dead away if Menard's does anything with locomotives, the support implications are massive!  Right now they have an attractive business model with the stuff they do, it's cheap enough that any issues they simply replace it.

IMO, that's why I think that Williams locos might work for Menards - simple and inexpensive enough for them to just replace the bad units.

@Mallard4468 posted:

IMO, that's why I think that Williams locos might work for Menards - simple and inexpensive enough for them to just replace the bad units.

You have apparently not looked at the Williams prices lately.   Truthfully, I don't think Menard's wants to open that can of worms.