Now Comes the E6 from 3rd Rail

I'm in for a AS&SF powered B unit w/Sound (3R) 

That L&N looks terrific. Too many good looking schemes.

Your flyer shows two Southern units - No 2800 Tuxedo and the more 'common' Green Tennessean. I have a No 2800 that I had painted some years ago. Was a Lionel CB&Q

I might spring for a powered Black & white one as mine is a dummy at present.

The Green SR emblem isn't prototypical but I liked the added color...  :-)

Scott - Will your PAs have 'stainless' side panels on some roads (AT&SF/D&H) like the F units that are so nice?

Laidoffsick posted:

Powered B units for 3 Rail. Just like the F7s...powered Bs with sound and no tether. 

Thats has been the biggest complaint for Lionel E unit sets, 1 pwrd, 1 dmmy. Especially with heavy 21" cars, 2 powered units are better than one, and will make those traction tires last longer.

 

I agree. At the last Lionel half price sale, I bought the motors and trucks to power two dummy E6 units. Now I have three sets of Lionel E-6 units, so which one gets left out?

Was the "City of New Orleans" ever pulled by E-6's? I have so many Santa Fe locos ordered from Scott, perhaps it is time to order the Illinois Central E-6's and build the train I have never owned, but would like to. Those passenger cars could be a problem, though.

Eliot, IC had to have used their E6's on the City of New Orleans at some time.  However, I am not aware of their being regularly assigned to that train.  They only had 5 E6A units, and one of those did not last long.  It was wrecked in the 1940's and sent to EMD for repair, returning as an E7.

After the IC had purchased its fleet of E8's and E9's (by the mid-1950's) The E6's and E7's were more commonly seen on the Iowa trains, the Green Diamond, and the Shreveport trains.  However, the IC E6's were well-maintained right to their last day, and made occasional appearances on the New Orleans trains.  

OK, will change the ordering to Powered E6 Bs in 3R. Attending the O Scale West Show. Lightly attended, but the core crew are there. Nice to see the familiar faces. Lots of collection pieces on sale. I brought a few gems as well. Come if you are near Santa Clara.

Scott

RoyBoy posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Powered B units for 3 Rail. Just like the F7s...powered Bs with sound and no tether. 

Thats has been the biggest complaint for Lionel E unit sets, 1 pwrd, 1 dmmy. Especially with heavy 21" cars, 2 powered units are better than one, and will make those traction tires last longer.

 

I agree. At the last Lionel half price sale, I bought the motors and trucks to power two dummy E6 units. Now I have three sets of Lionel E-6 units, so which one gets left out?

RoyBoy,

Good idea to buy motors and trucks for the dummy units.  Probably a lot cheaper than buying two complete Lionel AA sets (powered + dummy) to get two powered As like I've done.  Still trying to figure out what to do with the dummy AA sets.

Do you run command control?  If so, how did you set up your "new" powered units to run with the factory built powered units?  Probably doable with DCS but I don't see how with Lionel unless you gut all the engines and rebuild with ERR products.

ADDED:  Scott, maybe producing a limited number of power/command upgrade kits for those that want powered B units instead of making all B units powered.  That way those who don't want power (either cost or operation) can get what they want, and those wanting powered units can buy the upgrade kit. 

ecd15 posted:

Matt Makens posted:

 I would like a set of C&NW units but alas no train to pull behind them puts me in a spot

Unfortunately, in this BTO world, when and if a proper C&NW train comes along, will it be too late to obtain the proper motive power?

what cars would be right for this engine?

did it pull the hi level commuter cars?

Below is a close up but partial picture of the E6 demonstrator with some information.  Scroll down a few pictures to get to it.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/19490

Actually the first picture in the link above is the best picture.  When I took a quick glance at it, I thought it was just one of the buildings.  Not sure how 3rd Rail would do the very visible interior...

Thank you John for the link to the demo color photo. Now I can stop searching.

If Scott makes that paint scheme, I will purchase one.

Also hoping the MP version will have the porthole windows on the side and the Milw version will be in the 'as delivered' scheme. This is going to make the choices more complicated, except for my must haves of ACL, FEC, and SAL to pull my passenger trains.

Looks like a real BEAST.    

I hope somebody in our Club gets an A-B set.  I would enjoy watching that combo on the point.    

I am too tapped-out to even consider such a purchase.   

I want a Santa Fe AB, but its too early to commit. I wanna see if the Alco's get a second run. If the timing is right I'll get them hoping for a re run of the 50's Super Chief. There are not that many road names, and I think that's good. More room for accuracy!

Thanks for offering these, Scott! They are definitely on my radar.

If you are offering this as-delivered paint shecme for the MILW, I'd be happy to match the colors from my Key E6 with the Pantone system, the colors on this one are trrrrricky!

Thank you John H. for that link! I'm in it for sure! I placed my reservation!

This one is the 1939 world fair:

I thought I was pretty much finished buying equipment, but Scott keeps tempting me to add more.

Adding powered trucks to dummy units is a great way to go, and have what you wish.  I have done so with PW F3 units that have been repainted for certain roads.  It would be easier to do so with modern can motors and putting in ERR electronics is never a problem.  Having done so, to have two powered A units, and no tether necessary, is very simple and quite effective.  With the "nudge" feature of ERR TMCC units, getting the two A units to run in synch is very easy to perform.

Jesse    TCA   12-68275

Going to order AB set of Missouri Pacific with the correct port hole windows. Time to sell the MTH set with square windows. I like the Rock Island E6 and TA sets but I already have too much on order now. Those will go down to the wire on ordering.

Joe

The picture of the E6 on Third Rail's web site is not very good.  I wonder what engine number choices will be on the Rock Island A units?  I think it would be good if they used #628 and #630 then they could be used to pull K-Line's Golden State set; even better if GGD produced accurate scale length GS cars for the engines

CAPPilot posted:

The picture of the E6 on Third Rail's web site is not very good.  I wonder what engine number choices will be on the Rock Island A units?  I think it would be good if they used #628 and #630 then they could be used to pull K-Line's Golden State set; even better if GGD produced accurate scale length GS cars for the engines

Ron,

If you wouldn't mind, could you send your preferred engine numbers to my email.  It is in my profile.  Then I can catalog it when it comes time for this project to go into design.

Thanks!

Jonathan

I think we need some clarification as to which paint schemes are likely to be produced. The brochure and web site show 2 different Southern schemes, neither of which I would prefer. Also it would be nice to be able to choose between schemes on the reservation page. The ACL had 3 schemes purple / silver with either small or large lettering and black with yellow stripes. I like them all and would likely order all 3 if produced.

My thanks to Scott and Jonathan for taking on this icon of passenger diesels.

Leon

Im going in for a seaboard air line. But I agree, clarification on certain schemes would be great. Also L&N had these in a beautiful royal blue scheme. Can we get L&N added? I would reserve an A unit in L&N

Clarification of which model/version of the engines being produced would be great.  I have been doing some web browsing and there are significant differences between versions of the ATSF E6.

AT&SF E6AB Set Warbonnet Scheme
          Nos. 12L/12A, 13L/13A, 15L/15A as delivered
          April/May 1940 and May 1941.......

AT&SF E6AB Set Warbonnet Scheme Nos. 12L/12A, 13L/13A, 15L/15A
  As modified mid-1950s

I personally prefer the looks of the "as delivered" model and I hope Scott makes that version.  I am no expert but there are many obvious differences in the two versions that I can even see. I am a sucker for the sleek streamlined front end! The additional headlight and the exposed front coupler detracts from the front end in my opinion.  Speaking of....was the rake on the E6 front end the same as the E3?  Just curious.

The general thinking at this time is that the ATSF E6 will be the as delivered version as it pulled the Chief up to 1946.  There are plenty of passenger car sets for that time period.  They were assigned to Midwest service trains such as the Texas Chief and lessor trains in 1947 through the end of their careers in the 60's after F3's took over Chicago to LA trains. 

As for other paint schemes, this project is still a ways out.  If there are strong feelings one way or the other and there is consensus on what those schemes should be, please make your feelings known.  As always, it takes 20 units to make any paint scheme move forward.  Pictures always help!

E3's, E4's (SAL only), E5's (CB&Q only), and E6's all shared the same nose profile and the EA and E1 are very similar. 

Blue Streak posted:

Going to order AB set of Missouri Pacific with the correct port hole windows. Time to sell the MTH set with square windows. I like the Rock Island E6 and TA sets but I already have too much on order now. Those will go down to the wire on ordering.

Joe

Did Scott say they would do the MP with the portholes?  Best to verify and not assume.

Yes, I am also a sucker for the sleek front end (with no coupler) of the as delivered ATSF E6.  If that is the version (with the number 13 as shown in the photo above) I am all in!!

Sunset does show the MP units in their reservation ad as having portholes,however changing the tooling for these units only may not be a viable option, only Scott can answer that.

I emailed Scott to ask about the how the front coupler would be treated on the ATSF E6.  Here is his reply..

We can have this discussion after we have been through the design
phase of the E6s. Since the nose of the E6s stick out farther I am
inclined to have a 2 Rail pilot with a rotating door. But that 2
Rail pilot would be an extra cost for 3 Railers wanting this
feature.

Scott Mann

I think having the option of a closed door front pilot is great.  If you agree email him to let him know it is worth the effort to provide it.

thanks

kevin

T4TT posted:

I emailed Scott to ask about the how the front coupler would be treated on the ATSF E6.  Here is his reply..

We can have this discussion after we have been through the design
phase of the E6s. Since the nose of the E6s stick out farther I am
inclined to have a 2 Rail pilot with a rotating door. But that 2
Rail pilot would be an extra cost for 3 Railers wanting this
feature.

Scott Mann

I think having the option of a closed door front pilot is great.  If you agree email him to let him know it is worth the effort to provide it.

thanks

kevin

1. Agreed. Option of closed pilot is definitely wanted. I wish it was also possible on the yet to be produced Alco PA as well.

2. Throughout the 40's the closed pilot was fundamental to the sleek shovel nosed features distinctive to the E6 for so many 'glamorous' named passenger trains they headed.

3. I don't object to a reasonable extra cost for an optional closed door pilot for the lead unit of an A A pair in 3R. Obviously, an open door pilot with functional 3R coupler on the second A unit would be necessary in such a configuration.

4. I reserved 2 A units as soon as they were announced. Your 'email Scott' recommendation is a good one for anyone serious about purchasing these. He's always given me upfront responses. I am sending one today.

http://morphotoarchive.org/rvn...20Western%20Railroad

CNW E6 AA pair no. 5005A & 5005B in 1947:

(Photo:  Ron V. Nixon Collection Image Record -RVN12753. Museum of the Rockies, Montana State University-Bozeman).

Edit 6/6/17: Per his response to my email, I sent Scott photos and link for closed pilot references.  CNW pilot doors different in style than ATSF and others.  Also photo evidence shows 1940-50s E6 pilot had the side step, not to be confused with the many photos of E3s cleaner pilot without step.   Lastly of note:  the lights in center lens are aligned vertically on this prototype. Hopefully more than 3 of us order sets so it doesn't get cancelled!

E6 (5005A,5005B,5006A,5006B): photo from mid to late 40's. This phase shows pilot with side step, single upper light & vertically aligned twin center lights

E3 (5001A,5001B,5002A,5002B): this photo '39 to early 40's shows narrower no step pilot, single upper and center light

Another vote for the ATSF E6 as delivered with the hope that "Fast 14" is offered as a single unit.

Allan

Scott says Mopac will have port hole windows as shown in there illustration. So I ordered an A & B unit set yesterday. Bye Bye MTH set with square windows.

Be fore we get to far along on the HO Ra for this models I would like to make a comment.

This is a great thing Scott is doing offering this model in Missouri Pacific livery. The MP only had 2 sets of the E6 delivered. #7002 and 7003 in AB. so those are your numbers. the Portholes are the key to this. The detail variations are they could do are abundant  in Pilots roof details and colors. Some models had  painted blue pilots during there life. But he has to have the numbers to make it work, the E8 that are now shipping there are only 20 done in MP. that was the cut off.

The E6 opens up many possibilities for future MP models in the E car body. He could do MP E3 these came in AA sets as MP 7000 and 7001 has portholes and chrome side moldings in lue of painted stripping. The roof details are different from the E6

Another neat offering could be the MP AA class E6 #7100 with Baggage door and only one prime mover.  This pulled the Delta Eagle 2 car passenger train.

I present this to spark interest in the Road of Blue and Gray lowey style painting. But like I said the numbers must make it work and I think it is 20 of each.

Bob Harris

Hot Water posted:

Maybe a CB&Q E5A and E5B, with the stainless steel, fluted sides???????

How about the brass one at Stout?

WITZ 41 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Maybe a CB&Q E5A and E5B, with the stainless steel, fluted sides???????

How about the brass one at Stout?

Yea, right!

First, it is 2-Rail, and second it will probably sell for $3000 or more. Third, it has the red strip scheme on the nose, which is for post 1960, and NOT my modeling era.

I am in with Hot!!!! CB&Q   E5a-b stainless!!! my plated overland set is pitting out

There were probably a half dozen Key E5s at OSW unsold.  How/where they will show up?

rdunniii posted:

There were probably a half dozen Key E5s at OSW unsold.  How/where they will show up?

That kills me, I want one so bad! But I'm already spending 6k plus in brass this summer... No way I can spend another 3200 on a Key early E this year. 

If 3rd rail offers the E5 in brass, offering several versions including the red nose may make the project more plausible. I'd take an AB and an AA set for sure. Scott is already giving us the great gift of the Rocket TA, it would be a dream to have the E5, but I understand if it doesn't happen. 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

If 3rd rail offers the E5 in brass, offering several versions including the red nose may make the project more plausible. I'd take an AB and an AA set for sure. Scott is already giving us the great gift of the Rocket TA, it would be a dream to have the E5, but I understand if it doesn't happen. 

An E5 in brass would be amazing. The key model is stunning. 

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

If 3rd rail offers the E5 in brass, offering several versions including the red nose may make the project more plausible. I'd take an AB and an AA set for sure. Scott is already giving us the great gift of the Rocket TA, it would be a dream to have the E5, but I understand if it doesn't happen. 

An E5 in brass would be amazing. The key model is stunning. 

Even a plated one in plastic would be pretty cool and the price would be more friendly for many people.  I'm not normally a Burlington modeler or operator, but this would make a stunning locomotive for any layout.