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chatam sqThis is a great pic  The Third ave and Second Ave El's met here  That is a Forney steam engine pulling the coaches

 

Third ave El

10993389_606731266094544_4361320812137719150_nthird 3-23





Interior of a Blue Bird

blue bird interior



Brooklyn El construction

ind 4th ave

Connecting the culver

construction

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Last edited by bluelinec4
Original Post

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Ben

 

You really come up with some great photos.

 

The first one is at Chatham Square before the rebuild with the flyover for the South Ferry branch. When this photo was taken, third ave trains going to and from South Ferry crossed on grade

 

The second Photo is at the W 23rd street Ferry Terminal. That is a NY Railways Green Line car running on the 23rd st Crosstown line. This car had the distinction of stopping in front of Madison Hardware. Service ended in 1936 when parent, 5th ave coach substituted buses for the service.

 

The third photo is during the great 1947 snowstorm, december 26th i think/

 

The Blue birds were a real modern car way ahead of their time. In the 1930's They worked on the Fulton Street line in Broolyn before the A train was built.

 

Not sure about the Brooklyn El photo. It almost looks like downtown Brooklyn near Sands Street.

Ben

 

I was thinking that the large buildings in the background were downtown brooklyn but i suppose it could look like that from about 36th street looking towards downtown. From the photos i have seen of the station and trackage at the location where the 5th ave and culver line trains split at 36th street, it could have been a substantial structure like in the picture that could have stretched between 5th and 4th ave. West end trains operated through here before being connected to the 4th ave subway. Also i guess the 36-39th street yard was located in this area as well. Think it was constructed about this time

Ben

 

That photo is a puzzler. I looked at it again. Two things to consider in locating the photo. It appears to be construction associated with the Dual contracts and the structure looks like its at a pont where there is a station but not with a center platform. I would say its about 1915 or so in time, about 20 years earlier than the photos you posted later. The second point is that this construction was not in a street but on private right of way and there is no existing rail line in the street that one can see. The buildings in the backround suggest it is near downtown. The Culver line in the vicinity of 36th street ran on private right of way over towards Ditmas Avenue. If its marked 4th avenue, the location doesn't seem right. Did the 3rd ave extension of the 5th ave el have any non center platforms?

Hi Ben

 

The new picture is South Ferry The 2nd and 3rd avenue trains are on the left while the 6th and 9th ave trains would be on the right. There was a connection between the two systems and you can see that in the foreground. Looks to me it was taken about the point in time when these lines were being electrified.Interesting to see telephone pole in Manhattan!

 

As for the earlier photo, the only place the Myrtle ran on Private Right of way was North of Wycoff avenue and it was two track in there with center platforms I believe. This photo shows an el structure with 3 trackways but local platforms.

Bob

Wallabout would be a pretty cool modeling subject  The Lackawanna, Erie, Pennsy, NYC, Lehigh Valley, CNJ , NYO&W, BEDT and B&O all had a presence there.  The Lackawanna owned its pier and yard but the others shared it ala a union terminal.  The Federal government claimed it in 1940 to expand the Navy Yard.  That 4001 loco looks pretty weird with that giant pantograph on top of a little engine.

th



I like this Ny scene too

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Last edited by bluelinec4

Here is a photo of BEDT 15 down at Wallabout Market. That is the Erie terminal in the backround. Interesting street running in Brooklyn. BEDT locomotives would be floated over from North 6th street engine terminal on the first float of the day. At the end of the day, they would return to North 6th street on the last float of the day. The Pidgeon Strret yard in Long Island city also worked this way.

 

wallabout bedt 15

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OK I got it from a very reliable source  Joe Frank posted these for me. it is looking SE (in direction towards Prospect Park further SE) along 10th Street from between 3rd Avenue towards 4th Avenue and the building of the sub-steelwork of the new IND 4th Avenue Station (later encased in concrete and brick) of the IND huge viaduct portion over the Gowanus Canal.  View is about 1929-30.

 

ind 4th ave 

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Last edited by bluelinec4
Originally Posted by CNJ 3676:

Not exactly "vintage" material but since we had a few **** Gate Bridge posts, I thought this impressive night view of CP's Holiday Train on the bridge was worthy of inclusion:

 

cp

 

Bob

What year did this happen?

 

I've seen photos of CP's train, but never so much as a suggestion that it ever got near the Northeast, much less actually within NYC's boundaries.

 

---PCJ

 My old NY -

http://steves3roscale.shutterfly.com/pictures/5177

 

1961 dongan hills, knickerbocker class steam ferry. 

1961 dongan hills

 

1970 Billboard / Batwing bus - St. George  Ferry city bus terminal.

Billboard _ Batwing Er...

 

One of eight S2 diesels sent off Island, mid 70's due to the MTA take over. 

SIRT 9032 Off Island. ...

 

St. George Yard. now replaced by a baseball stadium and park.

ST GEO Last Days

 

 

Old SIRT cars, long gone.

With Screens Joe Test...

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Last edited by SIRT
Originally Posted by bluelinec4:

Hey Steve  Did you recognize Staten Island in one of my pics

 

Yes Ben, I have a few photos of that trade zone area. There were 2 gated sidings between the T-VILLE pool and the tunnel. Always a box car or two parked back there.

If you could get in there, I think a few sections of the rails can still be seen today.

I noticed them on the Google earth satellite a few years ago.

Originally Posted by SIRT:
Originally Posted by bluelinec4:

Hey Steve  Did you recognize Staten Island in one of my pics

 

Yes Ben, I have a few photos of that trade zone area. There were 2 gated sidings between the T-VILLE pool and the tunnel. Always a box car or two parked back there.

If you could get in there, I think a few sections of the rails can still be seen today.

I noticed them on the Google earth satellite a few years ago.

Steve

There is a great site that has a lot of info on this  It was called American Dock  Here is the site

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/adc.html

 

The BMT  formerly BRT had an extensive system and transit complex in Downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan and over the Brooklyn Bridge. All of the BRT els in Brooklyn came into this area and trains from the various lines operated into Manhattan at various times during the period this operation was in existence. The service was during the period 1908 through 1944. In 1940, a substantial portion of the Brooklyn Elevateds were closed. Fukton Strret line trains continued to make the run from the Lefferts blvd station in the east , through Broadway junction onto the Broadway Elevated then onto the Lexingtin ave Elevated , then onto the Myrtle Ave Elevated into Sands street and over the Brooklyn Bridge. The IND A Train did not reach as far east as it does today.  The last train to make the trip was a Myrtle Ave train . The Myrtle ave El truncated at this time to Jay street, continued to operate until 1969 with the Q cars being used.

At Sands Street in Brooklyn, their was a two level complex which served through service to Manhattan on one level and a loop for trains not serving Manhattan on the other level and tracks for trains terminating at Sands Street. Each level had multiple tracks and platforms.Sands Street Terminal had four tracks and four island platforms and a wall platform on the East. This was on the lower level to the West fo the Loop tracks and platforms Sands Street Loop had platforms on High Street(one island and two wall with two tracks) and on Sands Street (also two tracvks and one island and two wall platforms) . This too was on the lower level Sands Street to Manhattan had four tracks and two wall platforms plus two elevated street car platforms to the side of the outermost islands. This was on the upper level.

 

On the Manhattan side there initially was a station with two tracks and three platforms in a large railroad style train shed. This was expanded to include two separate platform areas and additional tracks. The BRT's Williamsburg bridge line also came into this area but was a subway installation with the Chambers Street Station adjacent to this area but below ground. LIRR trains also used the Chambers street terminal.

 

There were two tracks for El Trains on the Bridge in the center of the span. On Either side of the El Tracks was a track for streetcars which aslo ran from Brooklyn into Manhattan. The Trolley service lasted into 1950. PCC cars were the last to operate on this line.  Here are photos of Sand Street and Brooklyn Bridge Stations.

 

 

Sands Street

699px-BRT_Park_Row_c1905_

 

 

broadway junction

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Last edited by LIRR Steamer

 

Bob,

 

Great Highbridge photo.

 

In the early fifties my father and I would visit that area to watch the construction of the Major Deegan Expressway. Too bad that the highway construction destroyed much of the railroad infrastructure in the area.

 

The most fascinating thing about the tracks of the Putnam Division was the lack of electrification. It was the only place in the Bronx where we could explore the area along tracks. Everywhere else had that third rail that made the area off limits to kids with any common sense!

 

It was also the only place where there was any steam in our part of the Bronx, although memories are vague since I was only 5 years old when diesels took over in the very early fifties. 

 

Jim

Thanks for the greayt photo Bob. Just across the bridge we see in the photo was the terminal station for the Putnam division trains on the New York Central. There really were a number of transit choices for New Yorkers during these days.

 

Here is a photo of the station, 9th ave line in the forefront with the NYC station just behind.

Sedgwickside.photo

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Last edited by LIRR Steamer

Ben That one is easy. It was called Pidgeon street Yard because that was the name of the street on which it was located . The yard opened in 1906 and was in operation until 1976 operated by the BEDT. Freight cars were received at the Kent avenue yard and sorted  and reloaded on a BEDT carfloat and brought to and from Pidgeon street by the BEDT.Capacity was about 100 cars and there were quite a few customers served.

 

Customers served at Pidgeon street included National Sugar better known as "Jack Frost"  and the Daily News. There was never any direct connection between the LIRR and BEDT although it was discussed initially when the BEDT bought the property Pidgeon street was eventually renamed 55th avenue when Queens went to numbered streets and avenues. It is no longer a mapped street today.

 

In your photo, No 13 is switching the yard. 13 and 14 were identical locomotives. The Bridge in the backround is interesting . It is a double Bascule . It connected Manhattan Avenue in Brooklyn with Vernon Boulevard in Long Island City. The No 61 Crosstown and No 62 Graham ave trolleys used to cross it. I remember seeing it in service , opening and closing quite frequently as there was a lot of traffic on the Newtown Creek. The attached photo show the Bridge open.

 

PidgeonStreet1919map

bedtPidgeonStOct111943b

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Originally Posted by CNJ 3676:

 

 

crrnj1001oncarfloat

Jim:

 

That was the CNJ car float which ran between Jersey City and the railroad's off line terminal in the Bronx. The locomotive is the 1001, purchased second hand to replace AGEIR boxcab 1000. By this point in time, due to the increasing problems in the neighborhood, the railroad found it prudent to remove the locomotive to the relative safety of Jersey City when the day's work was done.

 

Bob 

Wow, I didn't know they were moved that far upriver. I always thought they were designed for lateral W-E and back. Thanks for the info.

 

Bob

I did some additional research on that Pennsy facility at E. 125th Street. During the early 40s, the railroad offered both LCL and CL services here. Also, during the same period, Lehigh Valley hosted a similar operation at E. 124th Street. Evidently, both facilities were physically gone by the late 50s. I've been unable to locate a photograph of either operation.

 

One of the truly fascinating aspects of waterfront railroading was the ability to conduct operations without the physical presence of tracks on land. Shove the railroad owned vessel - carfloat, barge or lighter - to pier or ship side and away you go.

 

Here's a great color photo of the B&O's facility at West 12th Street with a substantial number of cars on floats taken in 1972. It was taken by Mr. Tom Flagg, the gentleman who authored the outstanding Morning Sun books about New York Harbor railroads.

   

bopier

 

Bob

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Bob

 

I agree the Books by Tom Flagg are great . You need to see these to see what Nautical railroading was like in its era. The B&O photo is interesting. The three floats we see here had the center platform. Notice the rolling doors on the building that they face. The platforms lined up with these doors so that cars could be unloaded to the platforms and then into the warehouse structure at the pier line. These type of facilities were considered by the railrroads as freight stations . Most of the rail-lines serving New York City had such facilities on both the Hudson and the East rivers to deliver freight for truck pickup at these stations. I believe once empty, cars might be reloaded with freight that was left for outgoing shipments and the float then returning to the railroad's yard  for forwarding on the railroad.

As part of the Dual Contracts, The city brought rapid transit to the borough of Queens when it provided for the IRT and what became the BMT to operated joint service to Flushing and Astoria. As part of the expansion, the largest El Station on the system was constructed at Queensborough Plaza at the foot of the Queensborough Bridge. It was on two levels , had 4 island platforms and 8 tracks. The West 4th Street station on the IND subway replicated this arrangement below ground but the Queensborough Plaza Station had more lines serving it.

 

IRT lines coming from Manhattan included the Steinway line which is today's # & route and the 2nd El which was discontinued in 1942. The BMT 60th st Tunnel provided Manhattan BMT service. Going out to Queens were the Flushing Elevated and the Astoria Elevated.

 

On the IRT side , both Steinway trains and the 2nd Ave El had through trains to both Flushing and Astoria, Steinway trains using lov's and 2nd ave trains operating MUDC's or composites . The BMT side from Manhattan terminated at this station. The service used the BMT Standards, the Triplex cars and R-1-9's in the 1940's . Going out to Queens, BMT Q cars and earlier, Gate cars operated from the plaza to both Astoria and Flushing. The Q cars when rebuilt were painted in the Blue and orange city colors in 1939 and handled the special Worlds Fair service for the BMT while the IRT had a fleet of 50 cars it bought for the Worlds fair service which were known as ...well you guessed it.. Worlds Fair cars.

 

The elaborate service arrangement lasted until 1949 when the dual operations were eliminated and the Flushing service became all IRT and the Astoria service became all BMT. Astoria line was shorter and its platforms had to be cut down to handle the wider BMT cars. I suspect this is how the BMT got the Astoria Line because there was less work and cost associated with the platform modifications.

 

Here are afew photos.

 

The station at the Plaza, the IRT Steinway line is in service but the BMT line is still under construction.

 

img_77461

 

A Flushing Line train coming from Manhattan. You can still see the second ave el track.

 

img_114453

 

BMT Standards arriving from Manhattan on the now gone North side of the station. Astoria Train is behind it. The IRT 2nd ave El track is still in place in this view and was probably the last part of the 2nd ave line existing.

 

img_112982

 

At the East End of the North Side of the station, a R-1-9 set is heading to the layup track to turn around for the trip back to Manhattan.

 

img_23234

 

Again on the North Side now beyond the station, we see a group of BMT Q cars handling trains to and From Astoria and to Flushing. Thats a Steinway Transit car in the street. The Bridge line was the last Streetcar line in New York City closing in 1957.

 

img_75913

 

On the Flushing Line heading EAST . the trackwork is now much less complicated. The crossover is still there and represents the only link for the No 7 line with the rest of the NY subway System. The Flushing line heads over Sunnyside yards at this point and in those days, one had quite a panoramma of the PRR long distance trains GG1s and the LIRR Freight yards.

 

img_75804

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Great Photo Bob

 

I think we are looking at Atlantic Avenue. The tracks on the North in front of Howard House are the LIRR line to Atlantic and Flatbush Ave. There were two routes to the Rockaways from Here, one being the LIRR and the second being the Brooklyn and Rockaway Beach RR. The elevated would be the Fulton Street El which ran to the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

The sign on the building on the right in the photo is insteresting advertising I W Harper a distiller offerring Whiskey for Medicinal purposes. Todays scene is quite a bit differrent. The El is still there except those Brooklyn and Rockaway RR trains are now using it as part of the MTAs Canarsie line. Atlantic Ave is elevated here and the LIRR is below grade and the East New York Station is here. Some of the buildings on Atlantic Ave that we see in the photos are still there at this time.

 

Thanks for posting

Hi Bob

 

Thanks for posting that photo. I am thinking that this the 39th street yard on the SBK . Its still there but diesels do the work now . Cars can still be received and sent out to and from the Subway system.

 

The R-17's started arriving in 1955 . Most went to work on the Lexington Pehlam line . There were a few that did come to the Flushing Line for a short period in the 1950's . Heres a Photo of R-17's at Willets Point.

 

on flushing

 

After the 2nd ave el closed in 1942, The Flushing Queens IRT  operation was isolated from IRT operations in Manhattan so Coney Island became the base for heavy repairs of their equipment for this line. When cars were sent to and from the IRT routes in Manhattan, they did go by car float to Bush Terminal and then stret running via SBK to the SBK's operation at 39th street. These are LoV's from the Flushing line heading to the Bronx in this photo

 

Lovs on float

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Last edited by LIRR Steamer

Hi, LIRR Steamer.

 

As always, thanks for the enlightening information.

 

The R-17 was one of my favorite car types. During the 80s, I spent a lot of time photographing the IRT West Side Line which, at that time, was dominated by the R-21 and 22 classes; however, as the new R-62 cars were placed in service on the Jerome Avenue and Pelham Lines, R-17s displaced from those services began showing up on the 1 Train much to my delight.

 

Here's the 6560 which I shot at the 238th Street Station with Manhattan College in the background in 1985:

    

r17

 

Returning to the South Brooklyn Railway for a moment, I found this early 20s image of Gravesend Avenue looking south from Ditmas Avenue. Of course, the tracks were a very prominent feature of the street:

 

gravesend

 

I'm sorry I never got to see an SBK train run down Gravesend/McDonald Avenue in person.

 

Bob

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CNJ I traveled that line to Manhattan in the 1960's . Think it was the R-21-22's in those days, green color. Transferred at 168th street from the A train R-10s .

 

The tracks on McDonald Ave were used also by the BQT's McDonald ave car which ran from the Parade Grounds to the Culver trolley terminal in Coney Island. It was one of the last lines in Brooklyn and PCC's were used from the late 1930's to 1956 when buses came. I like the grade crossing in the photo foreground. Hard to imagine that such things existed in Brooklyn . Photo looks like it might have been in the early 1920's

Great shots of the Broadway line. In those days when you were in the city and rode the R-17s or loV's or standards to go to Lionel aor Flyer showrooms and madison hardware, when you needed to take a refreshment break, you might have had lunch at a Horn and Hardardt Automat. Remember those? I was always amazed at the folks in the change booth. You gave them a dollar and they rolled out of their hand 20 nickels. Never 1 more never 1 less.

 

enjoy the automat

automat pc

historicalAutomat

coffee

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Over the Williamsburg Bridge, the BMT Broadway El carried BMT standards in Manhattan which ran down to Chabers street in the City Hall area. When the bridge opened to the El Traffic, the LIRR and BRT operated joint service to the Rockaways over the bridge up until  about 1917.

 

There were also tacks for the BRT , later BQT trolleys which ran into Manhattan from Bridge Plaza . These are visible in this photo. There was also a pair of tracks on the North Side of the Bridge which served trolleys from the Green Line which was a Manhattan Trolley company. It was the forerunner of what became 5th avenue coach. 

 

On the Bridge at Bedford ave, there was a trolley station where you could ride a car over the Bridge for just 2 cents when the regular transit fare was a nickel . The Green line cars were gone by the 1930s while the BQT service lasted into the very late 40's when buses replaced the trolleys. The 2 cents bridge fare ended at that time as well. THe BQT cars terminated on the Manhattan side of the Bridge in a large underground trolley terminal with about 6 loops. You can still see this station from the J trains when they stop at Essex street in Manhattan.

 

In the photo we have Peter Witts which were relatively new when this photo was taken.

wb bridge trolley

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PCC's operated into Manhattan on the Seventh ave line which ran accross the Brooklyn Bridge to Park Row. This one is on a fan trip in the 1940's and was in a one of a kind paint scheme before the Board of Transportation colors of Green and Silver were applied.

 

4345146842_bb85dae41c_o

 

Back in Brooklyn, we have a PCC in Board of Transport Colors on McDonald Ave. The car is waiting for the track to clear as a South Brooklyn Diesel is on the street doing a little switching I believe.

 

PCC waits for SBK motor on Mcdohald

 

Since we like Bridge line photos, Here is one sort of rare . It was a fan trip in the 1940's and the car is a double ended Peter Witt waiting in the Delancey street terminal on the Manhattan side of the Williamsburg Bridge. This terminal was below ground at Subway level but no connection. The Essex Street station of the Broadway Brooklyn BMT is in the background.

 

 

wb manh

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Bens view above is close to when the station was completed in 1913. Its amazing how busy this area was then. The Third Ave El 42nd street spur is in the view as well.

 

Here is the same scene just a bit later. The building that was on the right in the photo has been torn down. The Vehicle viaduct that goes around the terminal is still not in place.

 

GCT 3rd ave spur

 

One more, this time, the vehicle viaduct is in place over the tunnel entrance. You can see the temporary subway entrances at this location for what is today the 42nd street shuttle , but then part of the original IRT line opened in 1904.

 

GCT constr

 

Another viewof the construction. These are early in time as the 42nd street spur was removed in 1924.

 

GCT with viaduct

 

The 42nd street spur had two island platforms and there were three stub tracks. It was opened with the original 3rd avenue line in 1978 . It must have been a busy place even then.

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The large building in the photo looks interesting. Notice the flag flying atop the building. It must have been a foreign consulate. Also on the ramp coming down Park Avenue, there is a Horse car still in service. Electricity was a whole new technology in New York City when this was taken. Poles on the street bit the cars were powered from a conduit below ground.

Hi Bob

 

The discussion of the earlier Grand Central's referred to it as Grand Central Station and noted it was a stop along lines heading further South. At some point, New York City likely banned steam locomotives from coming further south of that station. Thus it would have been necessary to change to the Horse drawn cars that we see in this photo.

On Long Island , a similar arrangement existed for the South Side Railroad, where locomotive hauled trains ended at Bushwick Station near the present lumber yard on the West end of todays LIRR Bushwick secondary. Passengers heading west to the Broadway-Grand Street ferry changed to Horse cars at Bushwichk to complete the trip. That was in 1870. 

 

Interesting about the name Tryon. This is in what was likely the city center in those days. In Charlotte NC, the Main North South street is Tryon street with the intersection of Tryon and Trade street being the crossroads of Charlotte. The city is sometimes referred to as "Wall Streets back room" as it has a post civil war history of finance and insurance business. It is interesting that the same street name could show up in locations engaged in similar industry. 

Hi Bob

 

greats photos. The first shot has the 7th ave car in the original as delivered colors. The BMT El trains still crossed the bridge at this time so the cars shared the roadway with the trolleys.Check out that Packard in the photo. In your second photo, the BMT El is gone, the PCC is in Board of Transportation colors and its probably near the end of operations.

 

Heres a few more:

 

69 on bb

 

This is a Vanderbilt car on the old BMT EL trackways on the way to Brooklyn.

 

67 pr

 

a 7th ave car waiting at the Manhattan end at Park row. The 7th ave line was the last Trolley to operate over the Brooklyn Bridge in 1950.

 

pccs pr

 

Probably a seventh ave and a Vanderbilt car at Park Row. The car in the Backround is a 6000 series Flushing ave car. If you look just above the car in the foreground, just left of the pole, you can make out the Trainshed for the third ave el Park Row spur.

lv mqn

 

Leaving Manhattan . Great view of Downtown manhattan.

pcc bb

 

Looks like a seventh ave and a Vanderbilt car arriving in Brooklyn near Tillary Street. There was a third line which was equipped with PCCs and operated over the Brooklyn Bridge. It was the Erie Basin car. Two additional non PCC lines also operated over the Brooklyn Bridge, the Graham ave car and the Dekalb ave car. These lines used the 6000 series and Peter Witts. When the BMT El was in service , The Great Sands Street depot was about at this spot and the Trolleys went up a ramp and into a train shed with the El Trains.All of the Brooklyn Els with the exception of the Broadway line operated into Sands Street. It was a three level complex with loops and through tracks. It was torn down in 1944 with the El Service over the bridge. 

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Here are some photos looking North at the Metropolitan Ave station. At the far end of the photo would be the point where the Steam dummy was situated in Bobs earlier photo.

 

metro ave

 

In the lot to the left, we used to park our cars for the day when taking the Train to Downtown Manhattan. I think it was $2 for the week and the Lady who collected your 2 bucks on Monday knew who paid and who didn't later in the week.

The area to the right of the station was the cut for the New York Connecting Railroad. The New Haven Bay Ridge trains ran on this line , long freights pulled by heavy freight motors and frequently. Ben you remember these at the Southern end at the Bay Ridge 69th street yard.To the right of the railroad was New Farmers Oval. As teenagers , we played league Baseball on a field there . I can remember riding the Gate cars to get there from Williamsburg Brooklyn out to the wilds of Middle Village Queens. It was quite rural and there was a lot of new housing constructed there from the late 50's into the late 60's.

 

 

11-69

 

This is an R-11 fan trip about 1 month after the Myrtle Elevated below Broadway was discontinued. There are some Q cars up at the end of the track at the right.This was a stub ended station. The Platform was all wood and it had a covered Island about halfway which was ok for the three car Myrtle el trains that operated from here. The station building was wood construction and went back to the early 2oth century. The Lutheran Line when built operated from Ridgewood, around Wycoff ave North to the Cemetary entrances at Metropolitan Ave. Neidersteins a hotel and restaurant from the 19th century was just east of here on Metropolitan Ave. Here is a photo of Niedersteins. Was built in 1854 but now gone.

 

 

 

card00798_fr

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Last edited by LIRR Steamer

Continuing on the Staten Island Theme, the railway on the island was known as the Staten Island railway later to become known as Staten Island Rapid Transit It was originally owned by the B&O railroad, but today is part of the MTA. There were three lines, North shore South Beach and Tottenville. Only Tottenville remains in use for passengers today and the North Shore line has connection to CSX across arthur Kill via a lift bridge. Some scenes for you

 

Here is a system map from the early 1950s

 

438px-SIRT_map

 

A camel back with a train

 

SIRT-Steamer2-1925

 

A tank engine

 

image060

 

The South Beach station in 1953 when that line closed. Hard to believe its 60 years

 

Sbimage098

 

And to finish up we need a photo of a Staten Island Ferry. This one is the Miss New York a 1937 Steam Ferry and in Art Deco style. She is at the Manhattan end of the run. The City ferry service operates today and it is the best boating experience in New york City today. Twenty minutes on New York Bay and the passenger fare is No Charge.

 

missny0

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Great stuff Ben. I remember riding on the North shore Branch. All trains leaving St George went South from the terminal.In the case of the train to Arlington, the train moved south out of St George on to the main and stopped. The crew changed ends and the tower threw the switch . The train then proceeded North past St George and then out on the North shore line. Return trip involved the same reverse move to get into St George.

And we have the South end of Staten Island at Tottenville. There was a ferry there to Perth Amboy. It remained operating for a while after the Outerbridge Crossing was completed. You can see the Tottenville terminal from the train station.

 

Tottenville train station - 1965

 

Here is the terminal in Perth Amboy

 

staten is ferry

 

Before 1950, this oldtimer did the Ferry chore on this route

 

PA Ferry

 

In later times a smaller simplified boat handled the route. This vessel may have gone out east on the Greenport- Shelter Island -Sag Harbor run.

 

picture-of-ferry-lab-in-paint-21

 

Heading Back North here we have a view of the CNJ's Liberty street Boat. This one is the Westfield.

 

Westfield cnj_z

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In 1827, a steam powered ferry line opened at Corlears Hook to connect Grand Street in Manhattan with Grand Street in Brooklyn. De Lancey was the owner of the lands in this area. He had a farm and was an early developer. On his street map he marked a Great De Lancey  square and from the River bank, he mapped a wide street which he called Grand Street. There was a street that crossed Grand which he called Orchard Street because it went to , you guessed it, an orchard on the farm. And so that was likely the beginnings of that lower east side community which today has a Grand Street, Delancey street and an Orchard street.

 

On the Brooklyn side, the ferry opened up lands in Williamsburg to development. Companies that started there were Pfizer which grew to a large Pharmaceutical concern and a Havermayer sugar business which became Domino Sugar. an additional ferry was established to Broadway Brooklyn which allowed this area to develop as an important commercial and banking center , ie the Williamsburg Bank. There were horse car lines emanating from the ferry slips, the Broadway Elevated and even a car line to Bushwick station which made a connection with Long Island railrroad trains to the east. The Grand street Ferry ran to 1910 shortly following completion of the Williamsburg Bridge. 

 

Here is a map of the area and an early stereo slide view of a Ferry.

 

ny east side

 

grand street ferry -ca.-1860.

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 A few shots of the ninth and sixth avenue els along the line. These lines startedn 1878 and were closed in 1938 6th avenue line and 1940 9th ave line. The section of the ninth avenue line from the Polo Grounds north across the harlem river remained until after the N Y Giants left for San Francisco and the Putnam line trains were discontinued.

 

This is the Southern end at South Ferry

 

El9SFerry8

 

The 6th ave El joined the 9th ave el about Rector street. In this view you can see the 6th ave on the right and the original stub end of the el. This place was just North of the battery Place station which was the 1st stop leaving South Ferry

 

 

L6Rector2

 

This is the station building on the downtown side of the Barclay Street Station on the 9th Ave line. The building was Victorian in style complete with the witches hat. It is a real cutie. Who is up for modeling this one on their layout

 

L9Barclay

 

All the way to the North End at the Polo Grounds. The station was a 5 track affair and had a complex switching arrangement with double slips in the throat leading to the yard next to the Polo Grounds. This was the largest El yard on the New York city system.

 

9th ave el 158st

 

 

Here is the yard itself. Look at all those el cars!!

 

El9Yard4

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In Brooklyn, cars of the B&QT ran over to Long Island City in Queens travelling accross the double Bascule Bridge on Manhattan Ave and Vernon Boulevard which spanned the Newtown Creek at this point. This bridge was fascinating to watch and did operate quite frequently since there was a lot of water traffic on the creek in the late 40's early 50's. It made quite a racket as there were two bascules opening and closing at the same time. On the Queens side, Vernon Boulevard was on a viaduct that spanned the LIRR Long Island City yards and station as well as an adjunct PRR yard to handle cars that could not be accomodated in Sunnyside yard. There were a lot of trains to see. The B&QT had a turnaround loop at Vernon and Jackson Avenue where you could get a Queens trolley or the Flushing Line at Vernon and Jackson ave. Station. The subway still stops there but the trolleys and double bascule are long gone. 

 

manhattan avd bdge

 

Heres a B&QT car and other traffic waiting on Vernon Boulevard while the bridge is open for water traffic.

 

vernon blvd

 

With the bridge closed, we have a Graham ave car coming off the Bridge onto manhattan ave in Greenpoint Brooklyn. The car is a 6000 series built in the early 1930s and was the last car designed by B&QT before the purchase and delivery of the 100 PCC cars. It is still in its B&QT red and cream colors before the Board of Transportation colors were applied. This route ran to downtown Brooklyn and continued through the sands street area onto the Brooklyn Bridge and to Park Row in Manhattan. It was one of a few routes that served three boroughs of the city. 

 

crosstown trolley-car-profile

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The Polo Grounds and the spur off of the #4......then and its remnant now, next to the new Yankee Stadium.

71

 

1941pologroundsshuttle

 

680101231_3030AF1A59D479702C7EDD6FBB7EAB07

 

On the north side of the new stadium

 

780101231_86629A0131A9553F59DD807CFFE6AF0D

 

polo155

 

Coming over the bridge with High Bridge in the distance.

 

polo-grounds-8th-av-sub-ext-demo-copy

 

580101231_5FDA21F06655E08567406ACD2DDA7780

 

just north of the new stadium

 

sp_AAIC091_16x20~Yankee-Stadium-and-Polo-Grounds-New-York-City-Posters

 

 

a magnificent overview.....you can easily see the trestle bridge over the Harlem River where the EL spur used to be. North of the Polo Grounds the subway car yard is gone and has been replaced by high rises (compare it to the 1st picture).

 

I'd be interested if anyone can date these B&W pics.  I took the color shots the summer of 2009.

 

Peter

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Last edited by Putnam Division

The second photo I believe is in 1940 when the 9th Ave el service ended. The trains are composites. The station at the PoloGrounds is still intact as it was when the 9th ave el used it and the Storage yard was just to the north. The first photo , the aerial view of the polo grounds is likely from about the same time The Yard is still in use . It was closed sometime about 1942. Check out the field with a magnifying glass. There are players on the field. Who played for the Giants in 1940 or so. 

 

Photos 5 and 6 are from about 1953-54 or so. There is a vehicle from that period in the street. We know its before 1958 since the sign board in the stadium is advertising a Giants Night game, Giants vs the Phillies. I wonder who won.

Last edited by LIRR Steamer

"Photos 5 and 6 are from about 1953-54 or so. There is a vehicle from that period in the street. We know its before 1958 since the sign board in the stadium is advertising a Giants Night game, Giants vs the Phillies. I wonder who won."

 

5/24/1955 Tuesday night game vs. Philadelphia.

 

Phillies 6 - Giants 2

 

http://www.baseball-reference....I/PHI195505240.shtml

 

 

They didn't play on Monday 5/23 (remember when baseball teams had Monday's off regularly and the Cincinnate Reds started every season.)  That picture may have been taken on 5/23. 

I don't remember the trolleys but there were the trolley busses in the 50's. I grew up on Graham avenue and as a kid, we would walk down to this bridge and straddle the gap between the two sections when a trolley bus would cross. It was sort of a dare with the creek below. That bridge would shake 3-4 inches between sections. It was torn down when the Puluski bridge on Oakland street was built.
 
Originally Posted by LIRR Steamer:

In Brooklyn, cars of the B&QT ran over to Long Island City in Queens travelling accross the double Bascule Bridge on Manhattan Ave and Vernon Boulevard which spanned the Newtown Creek at this point. This bridge was fascinating to watch and did operate quite frequently since there was a lot of water traffic on the creek in the late 40's early 50's. It made quite a racket as there were two bascules opening and closing at the same time. On the Queens side, Vernon Boulevard was on a viaduct that spanned the LIRR Long Island City yards and station as well as an adjunct PRR yard to handle cars that could not be accomodated in Sunnyside yard. There were a lot of trains to see. The B&QT had a turnaround loop at Vernon and Jackson Avenue where you could get a Queens trolley or the Flushing Line at Vernon and Jackson ave. Station. The subway still stops there but the trolleys and double bascule are long gone. 

 

manhattan avd bdge

 

Heres a B&QT car and other traffic waiting on Vernon Boulevard while the bridge is open for water traffic.

 

vernon blvd

 

With the bridge closed, we have a Graham ave car coming off the Bridge onto manhattan ave in Greenpoint Brooklyn. The car is a 6000 series built in the early 1930s and was the last car designed by B&QT before the purchase and delivery of the 100 PCC cars. It is still in its B&QT red and cream colors before the Board of Transportation colors were applied. This route ran to downtown Brooklyn and continued through the sands street area onto the Brooklyn Bridge and to Park Row in Manhattan. It was one of a few routes that served three boroughs of the city. 

 

crosstown trolley-car-profile

 

The Crosstown car #61 route continued as a trolley on Manhattan ave a bit longer after the trolley buses came. Trolley Buses were used on the Graham ave line, The Lorimer street Line which ran up Nassau Ave in Greenpoint, and the Tompkins ave line which went from Bridge Plaza down to Ebbets Field.The trolley buses went into service in 1949.  When the Pulaski Bridge replaced the Manhattan ave double bascule, Buses were used to cross that Bridge to go to Long Island City. The Graham ave trolley bus did not cross the Brooklyn Bridge as the predecessor trolleys did. 

 

Here is a Trolley Bus on the Lorimer street route. I believe this photo is at Nassau Ave and Manhattan ave.

 

Trolleybus2

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Last edited by LIRR Steamer

Charlies photos are all very interesting. The first photo is of the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge. It is probably from about 1905 as the Brookly Elevated lines are electrified. Location is about Sands street. Motorized traffic across the span is non-existent. The BRT ran its elevated trains to Coney island and Brighton Beach via the Culver , Fifth Ave and Franklin ave lines . Trains to east New york ran via the Fulton street El and out to Richmond Hill and Ridgewood via the Lexington ave El and the Myrtle ave El.

 

The second Photo is at Cortlandt street and West street , where the World Trade Center is located. Cortlandt street was known as " Radio Row" home to Leonard radio, arrow Electronics and Blan the Radio Man. That was well after this photo was taken. Looking up the center is the Cortlandt street station of the 9th ave El. The building just to the left and behind the station is 30 Church street which was in The Hudson Terminal Complex , the original station in downtown Manhattan for the Hudson Tubes or todays PATH . The tallest building in the photo behind the el and just to the right is the Singer Building. It was the Worlds Tallest Building in 1908-9. Down in the foreground on the right, we can see a sign for the Pennsylvania Railroad, The lehigh Valley railroad and the New York Susquehanna and Western. This was the terminal for the Pennsylvania's railroad's ferry that ran over to its Exchange Place terminal in Jersey City.

 

In Photo 3 we are on the Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge. The El Train might be a Culver train heading to Coney Island. The BRT's Park Row Train shed is in the background. Early photo, the El is electrified but the Municipal building is not yet in place.

 

The 4th Photo shows us the then new Times Building.several theaters in the photo including the Astor Theater and across the street , the Astor hotel. I am thinking that the photographer was probably right about at todays W 46th street where the TKTS booth is today.

 

Thanks for posting these Charlie.

How about some Fulton Street El in Brooklyn? This line served downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan , went east through the atlantic Avenue complex and east to Lefferts ave.We aredowntown Brooklyn near Borough Hall

 

millions-bwimg_16c

 

At the intersection of Fulton Street and Flatbush ave, The Fidfth Ave El passed under the Fulton Street line. The Fox Theathre is just to the right on Flatbush ave.

 

NYSA_A3045-78_Dn_BtC9-full

 

We are out at East New York now. The Fulton Train, C types has just left Atlantic ave and is heading east to Lefferts Blvd. The Carnarsie line is in the Foreground.

 

1131002

 

Herre we have a train of C Types somewhere in Brooklyn on the Fulton Street line.

 

millions-bwimg_78226

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