post war comeback

I don't know who said that, but they must have been crazy. Postwar engines are too reliable and fun to be on a shelf!

I love my PW super reliable and durable.
Dave

Decades after the modern offerings of today are relegated to shelf queen status, pre and post war Lionel trains will continue to run with the same reliability we have always experienced with these models.

They may not be prototypical, they may all have the same sound set and they may growl like wounded buffalo, but there is magic in those trains that may never be replicated.

"Growl like a wounded buffalo". You know, that exactly describes my '46 berkshire. And oddly enough, its my only "noisey" postwar engine. The next loudest engine is my dads '49 turbine and the only noise is the "tink tink tink tink" of the smoke chamber piston. The rest are pretty smooth quiet runners and I wouldn't trade them for anything

I only run postwar stuff. I like the "mechanicalness" of the trains and find it a relief from today's electronic society. My Dad's '46 2020 is the loudest engine I have and remarkably, my stamped tin Marx 898 is my quietest. In this day of disposable stuff, I like the fact that my trains are pretty much all older than me and they keep right on running. Running around in circles a lot like I seem to do as well!

quote:

Originally posted by handyandy:
I only run postwar stuff. I like the "mechanicalness" of the trains and find it a relief from today's electronic society. In this day of disposable stuff, I like the fact that my trains are pretty much all older than me and they keep right on running. Running around in circles a lot like I seem to do as well!

Exactly! Good point! When I read about these guys spending over a grand for an engine with out of the box failures only to send them back time and time again I can go ahead and just enjoy my old reliable postwar trains!

groundhogslayer: The growl from my '46 1666 is better than all the rail sounds put together. I love it.

Bud

My 726, 2025, 2046, 2055 and 2353 are always running on my layout. The postwar engines are easily maintained and repaired. One day I will add a scale Hudson. I like the look and the realism of today's engines but I have no use for the high-falootin' electronics.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Doyle:
Decades after the modern offerings of today are relegated to shelf queen status, pre and post war Lionel trains will continue to run with the same reliability we have always experienced with these models.

They may not be prototypical, they may all have the same sound set and they may growl like wounded buffalo, but there is magic in those trains that may never be replicated.

Don't see many post about those Pre-war trains running, not that they couldn't just that the folks who had them as children and adults have passed and the interest has naturally passed too.

Once the PW generation is gone it will be the modern stuff, even if converted with the latest command installed controls. It is just going to be a natural event, and many won't even know it occurred. G

A little like Pong on your IPad.
Joe

I have a few PW things I run, but I'm hooked on the
electronics. Especially the cruse control.
I still even run a pre-war set I have.

I guess the problem is I like everything I have
for different reasons.

..

.

quote:

I guess the problem is I like everything I have
for different reasons.

I don't see a problem

By the way, postwar never went away. There are lots of people that prefer traditionally controlled stuff.

quote:

they may all have the same sound set and they may growl like wounded buffalo,

I have unfortunately, or fortunately, never had the honor of hearing a wounded buff. But just out of curiousity, would that be an African Cape Buffalo, an American Bison or an Asian or South American Water Buffalo??

Someone once said a Cape Buff has a way of looking at you as if it thinks you owe it money.

And I'm told they can get a decided unpleasant attitude about them when wounded.

Anyhow, sounds like a "coffee grinder" is how I've heard our Post War described...

quote:

Originally posted by groundhogslayer:
post war engines belong on a display shelf and that the modern locomotives rule layouts.

Gone for a couple of months and the stupidity still lurks like a Musky in the weeds.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1Heli:

quote:

Originally posted by groundhogslayer:
post war engines belong on a display shelf and that the modern locomotives rule layouts.

Gone for a couple of months and the stupidity still lurks like a Musky in the weeds.

That quote isn't really accurately attributed, as the OP was quoting and dismissing a third party.

My dad's Lionel WP F3's are probably my favorite engines. I have no intention of buying a new set of them or upgrading the old ones. The growl of those motors is a neat sound. The reliability of the old pieces is hard to deny as well. Although I prefer to model with a certain look and prefer to buy certain products, in the end I run anything that seems fun.

That quote makes me look like the bad guy...... I prefer pw locos. The only thing I really like about my modern mth is the smoke unit and the sound set. The sound is easily installed in the tender of a pw unit but the smoke unit is the only drawback. Either way I Search the train shows for deals on post war locos.

Not to start a fight but i have several postwar trains and they might run good but there boring... Dcs and legacy please...

No offense taken, Legacy and DCS do make trains more interesting, but I just prefer the old stuff. The world would be pretty dull if everyone liked the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by jojofry:
Not to start a fight but i have several postwar trains and they might run good but there boring... Dcs and legacy please...

Opinions vary...

groundhogslayer,

Enjoyed the pics!

My opinion is that nothing belongs only on the shelf. I'm a firm advocate that if you own it, you should run it!

Doesn't matter if its pre-war, post-war, mpc, or modern.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by jojofry:
Not to start a fight but i have several postwar trains and they might run good but there boring... Dcs and legacy please...

No offense taken here Jojo. DCS and Legacy are the future of this hobby and hopefully it will bring in some of the younger folk. For me and many others, we prefer the nostalgia, the history, the quality, the weight and the magnetraction of the postwar locos.

I'm all postwar & MPC all the time. After so much trouble with all the modern engines, I went back to basics & have not been happier with my trains. It's what the magic of Lionel was built on. The new stuff is cool too, but I don't have the time/money to put into that.

SHHHHH!!!!

Guys!!! Keep quiet!!

Sheesh!

Do you want all the Modernites to start swarming to the Postwar places and buy up all the stuff for themselves before we get a chance at it?



Andre

I tried to run my 1960's 736 berk on the club layout at the last train show and the new TMCC control equipment couldn't handle it

Actually the layout is huge, the power all comes from one point and we had a tiny little extension cord powering it all. Even our modern engines were having issues that day. We kept having issues when my Williams TMCC 773 was running on the same line as an SD70 heritage unit (Lionel legacy).

I love postwar stuff and modern alike. Both have their high and low points.

Most of what I own is post-war but I have plenty of the modern equipment as well. I have found that over the last few years I have been running my post-war Lionels about 90% of the time with less and less operating time for the newer stuff. I still like the modern technology but just got tired of running the stuff. Conversely, I've never grown weary of running my F3s, Alcos, Berkshires, Turbines, Baby Hudsons, Lionel's unique K4 Pacifics and even the 2-4-2 Columbias. I guess its nostalgia. In fact, I'm headed for the train room right now to fire up some of my "Growlers".

Hey OHHIKER:

What kind of Alco's?

Alas, I can't head out to the train room to fire up some "Growlers". Instead, I gotta' go work the night job here shortly. Guess I'll fire up some different "growlers" within an hour or so.

quote:

Originally posted by laming:
Hey OHHIKER:

What kind of Alco's?


Alas, I can't head out to the train room to fire up some "Growlers". Instead, I gotta' go work the night job here shortly. Guess I'll fire up some different "growlers" within an hour or so.

The good FA Alcos from 1950 to 1953. Specifically the 2023, 2031, 2032 and 2033. These are great runners.

I tried to run my 1960's 736 berk on the club layout at the last train show and the new TMCC control equipment couldn't handle it

Did it shut the TMCC down ?
My 682 turbine did the same thing.
Come to find out it's the whistle in the
tender doing it....

Add a .1uf capacitor between the pickup and and frame.
cleaned the problem right up....

I've had hand cars do the same thing...

quote:

Originally posted by Stoshu:
I tried to run my 1960's 736 berk on the club layout at the last train show and the new TMCC control equipment couldn't handle it

Did it shut the TMCC down ?
My 682 turbine did the same thing.
Come to find out it's the whistle in the
tender doing it....

Add a .1uf capacitor between the pickup and and frame.
cleaned the problem right up....

I've had hand cars do the same thing...

No, we just didn't have enough power to run it. We used all the modules which make a real big setup and power is really only connected at one spot and fed around the modules. We still lost a lot of juice at the far end. My TMCC GP9 (pull-mor motor) wasn't running either and it did most of the running at the show before the 736 trial. I might try again at the show this weekend to see if it will cooperate on a slightly smaller setup with fewer layout modules.


Are you a Glancy club member (just curious since you're in plymouth)? If you are and you were at the Gratiot Valley show in November you probably saw the engine in the roundhouse on the layout.

quote:

Originally posted by SantaFe158:


No, we just didn't have enough power to run it.

Jake, that particular day we also were dealing with a flaky TPC.

Are you a Glancy club member (just curious since you're in plymouth)? If you are and you were at the Gratiot Valley show in November you probably saw the engine in the roundhouse on the layout.

YUP....
I attended the show but did not run. I did the festival of trees
and GFV over December....
I'll probably run at the Troy show on the big layout.

We still lost a lot of juice at the far end.

I'm surprised to hear that. Maybe it's from all the crud
and candy cane residue from the holiday's

quote:

Originally posted by MichRR714:

quote:

Originally posted by SantaFe158:


No, we just didn't have enough power to run it.

Jake, that particular day we also were dealing with a flaky TPC.

I know we had some issues. You'd know better as to what they were I still had a lot of fun that day and can't wait for this weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Stoshu:
Are you a Glancy club member (just curious since you're in plymouth)? If you are and you were at the Gratiot Valley show in November you probably saw the engine in the roundhouse on the layout.

YUP....
I attended the show but did not run. I did the festival of trees
and GFV over December....
I'll probably run at the Troy show on the big layout.

We still lost a lot of juice at the far end.

I'm surprised to hear that. Maybe it's from all the crud
and candy cane residue from the holiday's

We probably met at the show then (I can't remember ).

quote:

Originally posted by GGG:
Don't see many post about those Pre-war trains running, not that they couldn't just that the folks who had them as children and adults have passed and the interest has naturally passed too.

Once the PW generation is gone it will be the modern stuff, even if converted with the latest command installed controls. It is just going to be a natural event, and many won't even know it occurred. G

Ever look at the Tinplate Forum? Prewar still rides the rails.

John

I guess, I misinterpreted the original post about about "comeback". I have a nice prewar 224 that I add pieces too. Runs excellent, I also have a varied sample of Postwar engines I run.

Is it coming back and taking market share of the Traditional O or Command O?

Arguments about preference are useless because to each his own. But I do laugh at the comments that come in about how the "PW will still be running". My comment is by who when the current forumites are dead?

None of this is meant to denigrade those who prefer Pre-War or Post War.

I just think there are far more Grandparents and Parents, running Command controlled modern engines with their children and grandchildren, then the old stuff. Not that they don't run some old stuff. But the young kids I see want to operate the smoke, make sounds, uncouple cars. Even a 6 year old taking about smoke volume.

"I'll just consider the source." Pappy, what did you mean by this post? Do you know me? Did my original post attack you? Maybe you need to try some of MTH's new Tinplate with PS-3 DCS?

G

Postwar doesn't have to come back because it never left.

Seems there will always be people who:

1) Love postwar and won't consider the modern, high-tech, detailed stuff, and

2) Those that love the modern high-tech, detailed stuff and feel postwar should be placed on the display shelf of history.

3) Eveyone else in-between.

I suspect many fall in the in-between catagory.

Rusty

Rusty, Amen to that. I'd still rather own the genuine article as opposed to the crappy Chinese made repro's. Give me a good old fashioned buzzing mechanical e-unit anyday. Lionel can keep its PWC and Conventional Classics. Half the fun of the hobby is the search for PW trains. Just wish there were more LHS's that specialized in them. They are a rare breed these days.

I had to laugh at another thread going to never never land because it got political, that is the Lionel price hikes and inflation discussion. What those folks REALLY need to worry more about is their modern locos losing over half their value through obsolescence. Just look at the MTH PS1 loco's... I got burned on them and will never go back. Do they think their PS2's will fare any better now that PS3 is out? I know how the game works... I worked for Intel for over a decade.

PW will hold up pretty well regardless as long as there are folks like us who appreciate them. While I enjoy some modern innovation (I've pushed for it) I reallllly appreciate the solid enduring quality of the American Made stuff. And when you buy PW from an American, you keep the money working in America. Unless of course the seller goes out and spends it on the Chinese crap.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

quote:

Originally posted by Tommys_Trains:
PW will hold up pretty well regardless as long as there are folks like us who appreciate them. While I enjoy some modern innovation (I've pushed for it) I reallllly appreciate the solid enduring quality of the American Made stuff. And when you buy PW from an American, you keep the money working in America. Unless of course the seller goes out and spends it on the Chinese crap.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But I think that is the point, PW prices have not held up unless absolutely mint in the Box, part because there are less and less PW folks buying, and more and more as they age selling.

I know several of the Greenberg show dealers who moved away from it because of Price instability.

So all new stuff is "junk", you don't buy any new Lionel or MTH? G

quote:

But I think that is the point, PW prices have not held up unless absolutely mint in the Box, part because there are less and less PW folks buying, and more and more as they age selling.

From what I see on Ebay, postwar prices may not be at their peak, but quality postwar items certainly aren't going for peanuts.

Interest in "O" gauge model railroading and collecting is going to continue to drop. That includes all brands and all eras. Sometime in the future, those still interested are going to be able to pick up trains for close to nothing.
It will be great times for those who actually like trains, and aren't buying as an investment.
Arguing over "my train is better than your train" isn't going to change anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Christopher2035:
I'm all postwar & MPC all the time. After so much trouble with all the modern engines, I went back to basics & have not been happier with my trains. It's what the magic of Lionel was built on. The new stuff is cool too, but I don't have the time/money to put into that.

Amen! I'm back to postwar for good as well after dumping my hi-tech trains and guess what? I'm happier as well!

Lionel is making some awesome looking stuff these days but too bad it's rather troublesome for the price you pay. Nowadays I sit back and skip over on the posts regarding the never ending debate over quality control. I don't need the frustration, I can get that for free in other areas of life.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommys_Trains:
I'd still rather own the genuine article as opposed to the crappy Chinese made repro's. Give me a good old fashioned buzzing mechanical e-unit anyday. Lionel can keep its PWC and Conventional Classics. Half the fun of the hobby is the search for PW trains. +++++++++++++++++++

I'd have to agree there. I've got some of the Conventional Classics stuff and it's nice, but it just AIN'T THE SAME.

I had a decent but average PW collection about 20 years ago (no rare or super-rare stuff) that at the time made economic sense to sell off.

(Still got my modest PW Flyer collection, though.)

One of these days I'll get back in the hunt.

Rusty

quote:

Alas, I can't head out to the train room to fire up some "Growlers". Instead, I gotta' go work the night job here shortly. Guess I'll fire up some different "growlers" within an hour or so. Big Grin

Was this photo taken in Fort Smith? Mark

quote:

quote:
Alas, I can't head out to the train room to fire up some "Growlers". Instead, I gotta' go work the night job here shortly. Guess I'll fire up some different "growlers" within an hour or so. Big Grin

Was this photo taken in Fort Smith? Mark

Or maybe Van Buren ?

I'll probably be wrong, but Springdale AR will be my "official guess". That's where we boarded.

..Only Andre can announce the winner..

quote:

Originally posted by Happy Pappy:
As for my owning a new MTH Tinplate piece, YES I do. My family (children, grand-children and great grand-children) gave me a new, "Baby State Set" for Christmas. Yes, it sure is pretty, however, I will never run it because it is, "Made In China".

Boy, talk about disrespecting your family by that statement above about the gift they gave to you. Might as well just spit on it in front of them after you opened the box. If anyone in my family ever disrespected me that way, they sure as heck wouldn't be getting any gifts from me anymore, that's for sure. Did you even tell them you refused to run it based on the principles you stated here on the forum?

I wonder if you even thought about that when they bought it, they also supported MTH's American employees here in the states. You know, apart from the executives, the tech support people, sales team, engineering staff, shipping/receiving, secretary, and even the custodians they pay to clean the offices at night, the money they got out of that purchase helped retain their jobs.

Unbelievable.

quote:

Boy, talk about disrespecting your family by that statement above about the gift they gave to you.

There's no disrespect there. He said it was pretty. He doesn't have to run it.
Haven't you ever gotten a gifr you didn't really like or want?
Lots of people must, otherwise there wouldn't be so many returns after christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by C W Burfle:

quote:

Boy, talk about disrespecting your family by that statement above about the gift they gave to you.

There's no disrespect there. He said it was pretty. He doesn't have to run it.
Haven't you ever gotten a gifr you didn't really like or want?
Lots of people must, otherwise there wouldn't be so many returns after christmas.

It's disrespectful by making a statement about his refusal to run it because of where it was made and grandstanding it on a public forum.

I've never returned a gift from my family that was train-related, even if it was something I didn't necessarily want. I've run it for them too, because I appreciate the fact that it was a gift. You know, the whole thought-that-counts thing? Even if I did, I wouldn't go and make a statement on it behind their back on the Internet. Not fully the point anyway, they knew he liked tinplate, so that's what they got him, right?

I used to have a 2383 set also. It was my first F3. I've frequently had seller's remorse about swapping it to a repair guy for train repairs and work years ago.

At the time I wanted to have it repainted into a local roadname, add a Mars light, sound and put in glass portholes.

Well, I did the sound part - an Ott analog system. I guess few here remember those...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Happy Pappy:



As for my owning a new MTH Tinplate piece, YES I do. My family (children, grand-children and great grand-children) gave me a new, "Baby State Set" for Christmas. Yes, it sure is pretty, however, I will never run it because it is, "Made In China".
________________________________________________________________________________
This by far the most ignorant statement i have ever seen on this board and i have been here since the beginning. What a great gift from your family and all you did here is disrespect it. Next time it would be best if you said nothing at least on a public forum. If i were part of your family i would be very, very angry. Being older is no excuse for bad behavior.

Dave

quote:

As for my owning a new MTH Tinplate piece, YES I do. My family (children, grand-children and great grand-children) gave me a new, "Baby State Set" for Christmas. Yes, it sure is pretty, however, I will never run it because it is, "Made In China".

And if it runs marvelously you'll be too horrified?

Pete

And another thread goes down the toilet...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Happy Pappy:
And yes, my children know exactly how I feel about non-American made products. QUOTE]

Boy, your house must either be full of really old stuff or not much of anything at all! Or you have a ton of money to have things custom made here. Just curous, what make of computer are you using? I think most are made overseas and even if they are made here most of the components aren't.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by mlavender480:
And another thread goes down the toilet...

well put

i can make this simple on why i like the old stuff
brand new top of the line preorders s-3 runs for 45 seconds(we've all seen that thread). $995.00
beat up rough looking 2029 with the tender shell held on by medical tape 39 bucks of the bay lubed it put it on the track runs like a top!
that's why i tend to stick with the older stuff, i have some newer stuff i really like as well my BANG comes to mind i also run my SF 0-8-0 quite abit and i run the wheels off starter engines i just can't see taking a oplunge for a grand or more for something that i would fir is going to fail. i love the looks and detail of the modern stuff but i just can't get past all the failure threads i read on here. give me PW any day.
oh yeah almost forgot the whistle in that taped up tender works great as well
Dave

quote:

Boy, your house must either be full of really old stuff or not much of anything at all! Or you have a ton of money to have things custom made here. Just curous, what make of computer are you using? I think most are made overseas and even if they are made here most of the components aren't.

with computers,and all that other stuff there really isn't much choice. With toy trains there are.

I'm curious, does anyone make a slow starting, smooth running conventional steam loco? And a digital whistle that sounds like a postwar air whistle? Or a postwar looking steam loco like a 726, that runs on Legacy?

I'd love to have some Legacy postwar steam options.

quote:

I'm curious, does anyone make a slow starting, smooth running conventional steam loco?

Good question Woo, I've been waiting more than 20 yrs and haven't seen it yet. I would like to add "traditionally-sized" to your wish list. The K-Line 3000 series 4-6-2 (from the Marx mold) were ok for their time, but lacked a flywheel. Maury Klein was too stubborn to even consider a redesign. RailKing steam with PS2 might be another option. But compared to Lionel Postwar, IMO most aren't that artfully rendered, the "selective compression" just isn't as good. Also they have no more than two closely-spaced pickup rollers, and are quite sensitive to voltage drops, because the circuitry interprets the track voltage as a speed command. (There's a LOT of electronic gimmickry inside that can fail, and conventional transformer operation gives a distant "drive-by-wire" feel.)

At October York, Williams by Bachmann revealed a new 4-6-0 steamer that might be the most promising example yet. Smooth and slow, with modest gearing and no gimmicky electronics! Unfortunately it's a 19th-century prototype. I really, really hope Bachmann develops a new, similarly-geared chassis for the Berkshire and Hudson clones which have been part of their Golden Memories line for years. That would give us what we're asking for. C'mon Bachmann, 30:1 or bust!!

I've bought only scale trains since 1996, mostly hoping for the promise of better performance. Unfortunately, scale steam is about as housebroken as a pet dolphin! It looks totally out of place on a Plasticville layout with sharp curves. If you don't have 20 feet on a long wall, forget about building a layout. If someone builds a smooth starting, slow running postwar clone with a strong mechanical pedigree, my check is in the mail!!!

Heck, all someone would have to do is design a replacement mechanism for the 736 or 2046 chassis. There are plenty of die-cast shells out there, and tooling for the boiler shell is the most expensive part! With all the folks out of work, I guess there are no machinists willing to step up to our challenge?? Good question!