Powering options for new starter layout

Really nice layout!  I don't personally like the 54W adapter OR the CW-80, I feel that they're both underpowered.  At least some of the CW-80s have a voltage "ramp" feature that makes it hard to execute some control sequences that are occasionally required by locos with modern electronics.

Since it sounds like you'll be controlling the speed with a remote, all you really need is a rock-steady 18-19V on the rails.  Eventually you'll want larger steamers or dual-motored diesels, so I would look for two postwar Lionel 1034s or even a 1034 and an LW.  Another option might be the MTH Z-1000.  Turn them on and set to 19V.

If you opt for a vintage postwar transformer, inspect the wall cord.  Also you should add a modern circuit breaker or fuse between the transformer and the track to prevent anything from getting burned or zapped in the event of a derailment.  Have fun!

If you are not operating switches from the track power, and not running passenger cars with incandescent bulbs that draw a lot of power, I think you could get away with the LionChief wall wart for one loop and another similar wall wart power supply for the second loop.  Lionel sells them in two wattages, including one that is more powerful than the set wall wart.  Possibly the least expensive approach and very simple to set up if you are using Fastrack and a Fastrack terminal section for each separate loop.  Might need something else for the trolley if it is not Bluetooth/LionChief or other command control.  A CW80 would be fine for the trolley line, but so would the recommended refurbished, modern circuit breaker equipped postwar transformer. A powerhouse is a good choice and will provide you for enough power for most future layouts. However, it provides a fixed voltage which would not be suitable for a trolley that doesn't have some sort of command control.  You need a variable voltage transformer for that line perhaps.

@David_NJ posted:

Good day everyone! I'm just getting started with a 5x9 layout based on an old D-264 dealer display (attached). I want to make sure I enjoy the hobby before I go hog wild, so I'm looking for starter/intermediate options that won't be complete throwaway. The layout has a standalone outer loop, a standalone inner loop & a small trolley track designed for Fastrack.

I purchased the Lionel PRR Keystone LionChief set so I have the 54W power adapter that the set comes with. I'm guessing 54W is enough to power the inner or outer loop but not both, and I that I will need additional power. Is that accurate?

At this point, a second engine I will get will likely be a LionChief or Legacy w/ Bluetooth as I wait for the Base3 to be released since the Base2/Cab2 base/remote is silly expensive.

If the 54W power isn't enough for the entire layout, would I be better off getting the CW80 (~ $160) that also provides a transformer to power the 2nd loop & trolley or would it be a wiser intermediate/longer term decision to get the 180W PowerHouse (~ $180) and wire that to the 2nd loop & trolley?

I appreciate any guidance and suggestions!
- David

My recollection is that both the 54W and 72W wall warts are DC power.

If you do intend on getting a Legacy engine in the future, I do not believe Legacy engines are designed to run on DC power - only AC.

I've used the wall warts to run Legacy locos, without apparent problems, but am willing to hear alternate information/experience.

The first page is from a circa 2016 manual for a Legacy engine and the second is from a more recent manual.

Looks like whether you should use DC power depends on when the Legacy engine was manufactured and whether you will be running it with BT. The OP said he was planning on running it with BT, so that should be ok.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful & helpful replies. As called out, in order to run the trolley, I will need a transformer and not just power, so that rules out just another brick/wall wart on its own. Though an older or more powerful transfer might be a better long term option, maybe now I get the CW80 and run the "accessory" output to one of the loops and run the variable to the trolley track. A "local" dealer might have some alternative used options I can look at this weekend and maybe consider something larger even at the start.

The reason I'm looking at just bluetooth right now is I don't have any command control equipment to run a non-bluetooth engine and I can use the smartphone app to run a bluetooth engine, or so I understand to be the case. I have considered the 990 and maybe will get it, but for ~$1,000 I would rather invest elsewhere right now and wait on the Base 3 with the hope it comes out this calendar year. If it was a year ago, from what I read, the 990 was half the cost if not less and I would have already picked one up.

Any further input from those that replied or others is really very appreciated!
- David

$1000 to control two loops seems an overkill.  All you need is conventional control and a couple of  LW 125 watt transformer.  Cost less than $100.

Display layouts are designed to hold interest for 15 minutes or so in a hobby shop or public display at a train sale meet.  Just looking at two trains loop will get old fast.  Also most do not have a way to reverse a train or move a train from one loop to another.  Consider what you want want the layout to do.  An oval and figure eight will give reversing in both directions and require 4 switches.  9 x 5 is enough room to add a second loop around the oval and figure 8 and with another pair of switches, move trains from loop to loop.  An addition pair of switches will allow operation in between loops in each direction.   Marc 1590 O27 remote switches can be bought for as little as $10 a pair.

Also consider adding operating accessories like the milk platform and milk car that kids love to operate and can operate.

As an example is my track plan that is 11ft – 2 in  X  5ft - 9in and shows an oval and figure 8 with an outside loop with two inter connections.  This board has 10 operating accessories.

You can build a turntable like above for $10 for your size train layout.  Post 9, page 1 below along with details of how to build the whole layout.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ra-027-layout?page=1

Charlie

Maybe go with an old Postwar ZW Transformer. 275 Watts, two track outputs, and 2 accessory outputs. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Accessories are a good idea, too. They add fun to any train layout.

The issue is that you're sort of in the sweet spot between a beginning layout (where your power requirements are minimal) and an intermediate layout (where your power requirements are more) but not at the very highest level, so picking an appropriate transformer can be challenging.

If I were going to stick with a relatively modest-priced modern transformer, I would choose the MTH Z-1000 over the CW80. It has most of the same features and more power for about the same price.

I would also consider a post-war transformer like the Lionel KW which has all the power you will need and can grow with your layout as you expand. They are reasonably priced and if you buy from a reputable dealer like one of our Forum sponsors where the electronics have been gone through and replaced as necessary, it will only need some inexpensive electrical protection to run perform well.

Dave your layout looks good! Last Fall I was in the same boat as you except I had a mid-2000s conventional El Capitan starter set and a conventional mix-and-match. I spent some time figuring out how I could fit two reverse loops and a passing siding into a 5x9 table top  I could run both simultaneously. I powered my layout with a $300 refurbished ZW.

I agree with Choo Choo Charlie, with a small layout eventually you will want something "to do". Tying the two loops together will give you an opportunity to operate the layout. Using a ZW or traditional train transformer will also allow you to run conventional trains that you will inevitably add to your collection.

@Choo Choo Charlie that's a cool layout. You have a lot of action. I like it!

David and Stephen

Thanks for the comment.  Details on how to build my layout and $10 turntable very inexpensively are below and have been added to my post above.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ra-027-layout?page=1

Charlie

D-264 - one of my favorite dealer layouts.

Steve

@Stephen Sharpe - is your design in SCARM? Would you mind sharing your file for me to review?

Everyone else - also appreciate your replies. Consensus across the board a higher output controller, even if used, would be more optimal.

Here you go... its got buildings with lots of parts so it exceeds the free version. If you want one without the buildings let me know.

https://oasispalmsca.com/wp-co...ds/DesertOasis.scarm

Thank you @Stephen Sharpe ! I have the full version of SCARM so I can review what you shared. I really appreciate it.