Prototypical or Non prototypical?

Just a little note on those "Green" locomotives.

Back before all of this exhaust emission stuff took hold, the working units at least smoked enough that you could tell that they were working. When an alarm bell came up, it was nice to be able to look back and see which unit had shut down by the lack of smoke.

Now, so many of the new units hardly smoke at all and you can't tell if they are working or not.

If you like realism a lot you really should turn off the smoke unit completely.  Real sd70ace's make very little visible smoke (diesel exhaust) and it is black.

Anyways that smoke fluid is condensing somewhere on you tracks or layout, and it builds up over time.

This begs the question (yet again), fantasy or reality?  One only needs to determine what one likes, then run with it.  Katey bar the door.   

They are toys, and as such I play with my toys, enjoying every feature they have to their fullest.  And when I get the new Lionel Big Boy, I'll be putting everything I have behind it, scale, non-scale, and tin plate all on the same train.

Prototypical accuracy is way down the list of things I value.  Prototypical size (scale size) I do want alot - enough that I buy little else anymore, but beyond that the fun factor and the look (if it looks attractive) and much more important.  An example: I have the 3rd Rail ATSF Northern 2929 which is very accurately done - gorgeous model.  And I have, and run most often, an MTH PS1 model of that same class (2921) that uses a casting for the 5001 class, which is longer by nearly half an inch.  It makes for a better looking loco and thus I like it more.  

As to smoke - it it's worth doing, it's worth doing well.  

Toys they are and will be mixed and matched with toy accessories from all of my grandchildren favorite TV shows.

To put it simply - when it comes to trains I love doing what I love doing!

Prototypically, if a current generation diesel is smoking, that's a unit with a serious mechanical problem. This has, however given me a great idea. I have a SD70ACe and ES44AC that will be "donating" their MTH fan driven smoke units to a couple of my steamers currently running Seuthe smoke!

Gilly

This is simple, kind of like "common sense", but few today even know what it is.  This subject is a perfect example of "too each their own".  Simple, neither is wrong and both are right, depending on each individual preference.  Everyone in this hobby and anything else is different and we should all respect their efforts.

Steve, Lady and Tex

"...they are toys..." Over and over.

Speak for yourself. Yours may be toys; mine are not. Even when a child of 7 and up, my

2055 Hudson and it's attendant layout looked real, and that's why I liked it. It looked

big, heavy and powerful, and the cars were dark, railroad colors. Imagination, yes; fantasy, no. 

Mine is a mix.  I like toy trains and have a 027 passenger set, a Lionel Dockside and Baby Madison cars, but my main focus is a nostalgic big city trolley line with no hard prototype or setting.  My cars are generally early 30s because they are my favorites. Trucks and buses are mid-30s to early 40s. Building selection focuses on places I encountered during family vacations in the late 50s and early 60s. A little bit of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles (even though I did not see Los Angeles until the 80s).  My layout, my rules.

In the real world, a diesel locomotive emitting copious amounts of white or blue smoke is a locomotive in desperate need of maintenance.

I never have liked the idea of a smoke unit in a diesel. It's just silly...

Imagination vs fantasy, don't see too much difference.  Yep, we're all enjoying playing with our toys.

Thank you all for the really wonderful replies. I agree that smoking units on diesels are to some degree silly and quite frankly not prototypical. However, they do add some dimension and are a little fun when running your diesel on the layout. Personally, I like a small puff has the diesel is started up and just a hint from there on in. Once she is at speed then nothing at all until she hits a grade. That is realistic and that is what one should strive for if they want a prototypical modern diesel to look realistic.

PS I must take exception that they are "toys". Something that cost $500 dollars on up and replicates its 1:1 cousin is hardly a toy, but rather a well detailed model that happens to actually work. Though I do agree that 0-27 sets for children, young adults and yes even us older guys and gals is more a toy versus a scaled down version of the real deal. Just my opinion though.

Thanks again, Pete

everyone tired of hearing the word prototypical raise your hand!

I agree we all should simply enjoy the hobby as we like.  There are so many ways to enjoy it and all are valid.

I am incredibly interested in prototype fidelity for my personal enjoyment of the hobby (i.e. correct number or rails, exacting detail where possible, replicating trains and scenes from photographs, etc.).  At the same time I'm running a Marx 333 with a Lionel 1060T tender pulling a 1949 Lionel gondola, an MPC PC gondola and a modern era Lionel Reading caboose around my companies Christmas tree.  Which one is more fun?  It's all fun!

From a professional perspective though, I must say that my part time employment in the industry demands immense research and prototypical accuracy whether the purchaser knows the difference or not.  There is always the vocal minority that won't hesitate to point out when something is wrong.  That is who I need to design for and having the knowledge to successfully do so is very rewarding. 

Was very careful not to say they were the same.  

Man you need to chill out.

There are two types of hobbyists, O gauge model railroaders and O scale builders that always have the ruler out. The later group is composed of the "rivet counters" meaning that they want prototypical realism down to the smallest detail. Nothing wrong with true scale but with Lionel, MTH and Atlas, very little is prototypical. Even the scale Hudsons are not 100% true to scale and certainly anything running on three rail track in itself is not prototypical.

Looking at the arguments for true prototypical scale, I see no reason for it. When you build a layout it is viewed in the context of the whole and presented as a scene on a stage. As such, few if anyone viewing it will notice the minute detail or if everything is in perfect scale. Collecting and operating toy trains are a fun hobby.  If we have to worry that much about everything being prototypical and in perfect scale it would take the fun out of it. As for running diesels, I prefer no smoke.

A layout with grass paper filled with Lionel accessories can be as fascinating as a detailed 3 rail scale layout. They are very different but equally valid. One layout is inspired by the old Lionel showroom layouts, the other by a desire to accurately model a particular time, place and railroad. One layout is for play value; the other a work of art. Each layout is built with the purpose of bringing enjoyment to its builder.

The measure of the success or value of a layout is the amount of joy it brings to its builder, not the opinions of others.

O-27 sets for example are not prototypical. Does this mean they are not fun? Of course not. In fact, quite the opposite. I happen to like details that capture the "essence" of that which I like. For example, I am going to replicate a typical modern freight yard. Well, there really is not allot to a freight yard, unless you want to get down to the most minute, inane details, but in reality, for me, I am after the essence of the freight yard where there is activity. Diesels running, lights on at night, a work shed that is lighted and several workers inside. Little things that make what I am trying to do both interesting and yet simple enough for me to keep up with.

A 0-27 set is not prototypical, but I love those Lionel sets because they remind me more then anything else of my childhood. Just trains on the floor and moving everything around to make believe you are command of a real live railroad without all the fuss and technology and gimmicks.

Pete

It is fun prototipiical or not. Even the Island of Sodor of The Railway Series has been modeled, in that case by the author himself. Using real railroad rules mixed with several fantasy, but based on real rolling stock and locomotives.

Me I just like running trains.

So, it really varies, some want real operations, some what to recreate the grande vistas, some what a ultra detailed model that sits on a shelf, create imaginary railroads and what if situations and even more flavors and all are fun.