PRR G5

A simple internet search might answer your question.  Here is a side shot of a real G5:

Here is a side shot of the Max Gray model:

Real one looks longer, rides lower, and has a much leaner look.  

Is your buddy afraid of this forum?

Weaver also did the G5.  (Three rail)

Weaver did it in both 2 and 3 rail.    Sunset also did it in 2 rail, don't know about 3 rail.

The perspective and lenses  used in the photos may leave to illusions.   The best bet would be to measure the MG model and compare it to the major dimensions on Rob's PRR site equipment diagrams.

To me the MG looks right compared to many photos in the Stauffer books, but I have never measured.   I might have to do that.

John Sethian posted:

Real one looks longer, rides lower, and has a much leaner look.

Is your buddy afraid of this forum?

There is a rumor of an infestation of Vermicious Knids here......

IMO the three above mentioned O scale G5's fail to capture the look of the PRR prototype because of dimension errors throwing off the boiler proportions and shape.

The MG G5 boiler smoke box diameter is too fat (KTM reused an I1 sized smoke box front casting)

The Weaver smoke box and boiler is the right diameter but Samhongsa  enlongated the courses to accommodate tinplate flanges on the leading truck and drivers.  The pilot also sticks way forward of the smoke box.

The Sunset G5 has a straight vice classical PPR conical boiler and the cylinders and rodding are undersized.

At one time or another I've owned all the above versions of G5's, but never was satisfied with. their appearance.  The human eye may not be able to detect slight dimensional errors, but if the proportions are off your mind just knows something is wrong.  

For years several SPF's have suggested to Scot Mann that Sunset 3rd Rail  do a PRR G5 -  but the market imay be too saturated with previously imported G5 models.  Two years ago I gave up waiting for a commercial model and engaged master builder Frank Miller to scratch build a scale dimensioned boiler mated with a Sunset G5 chassis and tender. Other upgrades included correct size/ shape air tanks, cylinders, stack, and domes, and rods.  The model is in my  lineup of PRR power awaiting DCC and painting.  When I get the chance I'll  take some photo's of Frank's work and post them on the forum.  

Keystoned Ed posted:

IMO the three above mentioned O scale G5's fail to capture the look of the PRR prototype because of dimension errors throwing off the boiler proportions and shape.

The MG G5 boiler smoke box diameter is too fat (KTM reused an I1 sized smoke box front casting)

The Weaver smoke box and boiler is the right diameter but Samhongsa  enlongated the courses to accommodate tinplate flanges on the leading truck and drivers.  The pilot also sticks way forward of the smoke box.

The Sunset G5 has a straight vice classical PPR conical boiler and the cylinders and rodding are undersized.

At one time or another I've owned all the above versions of G5's, but never was satisfied with. their appearance.  The human eye may not be able to detect slight dimensional errors, but if the proportions are off your mind just knows something is wrong.  

For years several SPF's have suggested to Scot Mann that Sunset 3rd Rail  do a PRR G5 -  but the market imay be too saturated with previously imported G5 models.  Two years ago I gave up waiting for a commercial model and engaged master builder Frank Miller to scratch build a scale dimensioned boiler mated with a Sunset G5 chassis and tender. Other upgrades included correct size/ shape air tanks, cylinders, stack, and domes, and rods.  The model is in my  lineup of PRR power awaiting DCC and painting.  When I get the chance I'll  take some photo's of Frank's work and post them on the forum.  

Sad but true Ed. 

O scale can really showcase beautiful and accurate models.   Too bad that they often do not exist, even for the "Mighty PRR".

Well that tears it

I can expect something painted for Seaboard to be off but a PRR engine?!?!?!  You SPFs must be slipping in your efforts to keep the makers in line (or maybe the makers are slipping one, or two, by you!)

The Weaver engine looks nice though, maybe cause it's glossy.

That's some fine looking tire rims on those MG wheels, can hardly see them. (So THAT's what 2-rail looks like )

Bob Delbridge posted:

  You SPFs must be slipping in your efforts to keep the makers in line (or maybe the makers are slipping one, or two, by you!)

A dying breed... 

What?  No comments on the MTH versions?  I have one from about 2000......it must be way out of proportion.   I sometimes wish that my eyes would see what you guys see.

Norm

Here's a thought: Maybe a thread with a list of PRR steam detailing what is good and what is bad might be in order. I'd start it, but my knowledge on the subject leaves something to be desired. It's sort of one of those "Catch-22" kind of deals where you need the model to compare it!

Simon

Just back from a vacation and am now able to post some additional info related to PRR G5s' now that I have access to The Keystone Dec 69 article on standardized PRR smokebox fronts..

For classes C1, E6s, G5s, H8/9/10, K4s, and L1s the PRR used a standard design smokebox front 82" in diameter.  For Classes I1s, K5, M1, M1a, M1b the PRR used a standard 88 1/2" smokebox.  As previously noted KTM built E6s, G5s, K4s, L1s models imported by MG and later USH used the same the 88 1/2" smokebox coining as on their I1s and M1 models.  The 8% larger than scale smokebox diameter combined with undersized headlight castings serves to give those models a fatter than prototype look from most viewing angles.  For some  unknown reason the MG C1 was built with a scale dimensioned  82" diameter smokebox while the later USH C1 had the incorrect 88 1/2" smokebox. 

The first steam locomotives I ever saw were G5s on the LIRR.  After church on Sunday's I'd ask my dad to take me down to the Ronkonkoma, LI wye ready tracks where on summer days there would be several G5's steamed up for the evening run back to Jamaica.  On one occasion the hostler invited me up into a cab - I was thrilled but Mom didn't appreciate the soot on my clothes. 

With that background perhaps you can understand my special interest in having a G5s on my railroad.  Over a 45 year span I've owned a progression of O scale G5s models starting with the Max Gray, later Sunset, and then a Weaver 3 rail version (Bob Delbridge bought the mechanism).   Last year I found a painted Sunset G5s on eBay at a very good price and engaged Frank Miller to scratch build a prototypically dimensioned boiler for it.  The tender, cab, and mechanism are from the Sunset model.  The smokebox front casting is from the damaged Weaver boiler.  The domes and cylinders were scratch built.  Assorted PRR lost wax castings from PSC, Cal Scale, Trackside Specialties, and Sunnyside were used to detail the model.  Below are several photos which I hope highlight Franks workmanship.  One nice detail Frank puts on his PRR models is brass angle edging on the walks.  Also note the 90 degree whistle deflector unique to postwar E6s and G5s locomotives.' 

For the past several years scenery has been top priority for my modelling time, but hopefully next year I'll have time to strip, blast (Aluminum Oxide), paint and add DCC and sound to the model.  

Beautiful model Ed, thanks for sharing

Really nice work  !!

Yes.  Thanks!  Beautiful model.

 Now I have to check my C1 to see if it is MG or USH.

An exceptional G5 Ed. Your fortunate to have the service of such a craftsman as Frank Miller obviously is. I look forward to seeing this piece in paint and decals when that time comes. Thanks for sharing the photos of a proper G5.

Bob