PS3 upgrade problem need help

Gunrunner John is doing an upgrade for me and has had similar problems.  Works fine in conventional, but no engine to add in dcs.  Also reset remote, even reset tiu.  Funny thing is he said it loaded just fine on his work bench.  Anyway hopefully he can figure this out and post some more info.  Weirdly in conventional, using the the dcs remote I could fire couplers and even trigger the proto-sequence, just could not find the engine to give it an address.

I just got this back yesterday afternoon, so I'll be looking at it in the next couple of days.  This ran fine on the bench and the tracks before I shipped it out, so I don't know what happened.

First, it is very possible your PS-2 board can be repaired at the component level if all you did is loose sounds.  Now to your current problem.  You did a PS-3 Diesel upgrade correct?  Not a PS-32 board from a steam kit?  Did you change out the bulbs to LED? Did you load a sound file or just using what is installed in the board out of the kit?

Conventionally it runs, but no sound or smoke or lights?  Did you do a conventional reset (Your CW-80) probably will not work to do  a conventional reset.

I am confused when you say it runs smoke in DCS, but you can't add it to DCS.

DCS issues to check are the switch has continuity when in the on position (both wire connected is DCS mode).  Open is DCC mode.  Check the 40 pin connector to make sure those 2 pins (1 and 40) are not bent or damaged.  Reseat 40 pin connector fully.  Check the inductor toroid near the relay.  Not damaged and clear of wire interference from 40 pin harness.   Volume pot turned to on?  Other wise best to send to tech to test.   G

Mystery solved for John's engine, the DCC/DCS switch is indeed bad.  The odd thing is that it worked fine before shipping, must have taken a shot in shipping.  It's bad in both directions, so the switch is totally killed.  Jumpered the switch and away we go. 

Yes the unit still runs the smoke unit in dcs, it comes on by itself. I have not checked the switch to see if it's no good. Not sure I understand why you have to change to led. I left the old bulbs in but only have the rear light hooked up cause that was my next question. Do you have to install the led's? I'm assuming yes at this point. I'm stuck at work til Thursday so won't be able to swap the led's check the switch. I removed the 2 rail/3 rail switch because the trucks aren't capable being original ps 2

The PS/3 diesel upgrade will ONLY power LED lighting, it won't drive the incandescent lighting.  That's why the upgrade kit comes with all those LED's.

Check the DCC/DCS switch, it will prevent the unit from running in command, but it'll run in conventional.

I'd also try the conventional reset that George suggested for the sounds, 5 bells, one whistle, spaced at 1/2 second increments.

I'm hoping it's the switch, like I mentioned before it works in dcc and convention just not dcs. I will also change out all the lights. Not til Thursday night though. Thanks again guys. 

Well, that's screaming out the switch, you're exercising pretty much all the hardware.

Well, the results of this will be interesting.  If smoke runs on own it sounds like something may be damaged.  So the question is did the over current from bulbs damage the board or not.  Yes a PS-3 upgrade must use LEDs (corrected).  The correct repair board is the PS-32 which is PS-3 based but uses a daughter board to allow bulbs to be used.  G

GGG posted:

Yes a PS-3 upgrade must use bulbs. 

I'm sure you meant to say LEDs.

Yes I did.  G

Do you guys know if the restriction to LEDs only also applies to the #1 scale PS3 upgrade?

Thanks, Greg

Yes,  The PS-3 diesel or pure PS-3 Steam boards require all LEDs.  G

do away with the DCC/DCS switch and connect the wires together to get DCS.   Like the guys stated--LEDs no bulbs.  

My first diesel PS/3 install...  bad DCC/DCS switch.  I'm going to do exactly what Marty recommends from now on unless the customer specifically wants DCC capability!

I test switches as part of installation.  But agree that eliminating switch also works for a 3 Rail DCS only engine too.  G

I did test the switch, it obviously made contact as the engine ran in DCS mode without any issues.  When it came back, nothing I could do to it would make it make contact.  We won't have that problem again, the wires are soldered together!

John,

I assume that you just cut off the switch and soldered the leads, so as to leave a jumper on the board that can easily be removed if DCC operation is advised, similar to how RK PS3 engines come from the factory.

I did indeed, if he ever wanted DCC, just replace the switch with a working one.

John,

just replace the switch with a working one.

Or just remove the jumper.

John, I have been in the hobby for many years and do not know one DCC guy.  I know what it is all about and ask why when we have DCS.

Gotta' be pretty rare in 3-rail.   I do know a couple folks that run O-gauge 2-rail that use DCC, AAMOF I'm probably going to do a couple of PS/3 upgrades for one of them on 2-rail engines.

john what does AAMOF  stand for never heard of that one?

Alan

As a matter of fact to those of us who don't speak acronym.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

John, I have been in the hobby for many years and do not know one DCC guy.  I know what it is all about and ask why when we have DCS.

Hello Marty & John

"I have been in the hobby for many years and do not know one DCC guy" • I am a DCC guy • Yes - I use DCS at home and at the Detroit Model Railroad Club (DMRRC) I use MTH / DCC. Mike's Train House is now the leading manufacture for 2 - Rail / O Scale locomotives.

 "I know what it is all about and ask why when we have DCS".  •  The DMRRC now has over 8000 feet of track. It is all managed with DCC.  The switch on the loco, DCS / DCC allow me to run DCS at home and at the DMRRC, I have to use DCC.  The scale wheel locomotives by MTH allows for both types of operations.  Page 73 of the MTH Catalog 2016 Volume One, explains how this works.

In this case, if you are only going to be using 3 rail track with Hi-Rails Wheels, then like you said bypass the DCS / DCC Switch.  Scale wheels can be an issue on 3 rail track, and I would not recommend Scale Wheels on 3 Rail Track.  It is OK for what I am doing, but if you are 100% of the time on 3 Rail Track, Do not order Scale Wheels.

On the plus side of MTH Scale Wheels, No Traction Tires are needed. Can pull over 50 cars on a 2% grade.  Below is page 73. Click on image to enlarge.

Gary

Ok I made it back. I have installed the led's and ohmed out the switch. The switch works. I tried adding engine to my dcs controller with no luck.  Reset the controller and tried again with no luck. Placed a jumper on the switch still with no luck. Engine just sits dark, no movement, no smoke. 

Connected conventionally and the lights come on, smoke comes on, get the correct directional lighting for each movement. Tried doing the conventional reset with no luck, at least from what I can tell.  I'm not sure what if anything the engine will do when reset. I also get no sounds in conventional running. 

I hooked tiu back up to see if I could add and still could not. Hope I didn't fry the board but it's not looking good. 

Any and all thoughts appreciated. Thanks

Ok I have sound no. Checked volume duh. Should a new PS3 board come with sound? Thought I was suppose to load it myself?

Im really enjoying this no matter how frustrated I get. Love learning new things. 

Have you tried a Recover Engine? If not:

• Make sure that the TIU is TIU #1 and that the DCS is 4.20 or later
• Connect a short piece of track to the output of Fixed Channel #1 and place the problem engine on it
• Put power to the input of Fixed Channel #1
• Make sure that the problem engine is the only one getting power from any TIU channel
• On the DCS Remote, press: Menu/System/Engine Setup/Recover Engine and press the thumbwheel.

If the engine is "Recovered", try to add it to the remote.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

I am only using short piece of track. Verified tiu and remote. Added a sp2 engine just fine to make sure system was working. Have tried recover a couple times now with no luck. Also am running dcs 5.0 tiu and remote. That was whole nother story getting that one figured out. The 3rd edition bible helped on that one. Good book. 

Greg Elmassian posted:

Gary, pardon the stupid question, but the scale wheels have better traction? Is it the wheel contour?

Thanks, Greg

Hi Greg - Not a stupid question, we talk about this very issue this past Tuesday. It works like a prototypical railroad. It is my under standing that HO and N scale operators to not use traction tires. It is also very important to keep the track clean. Below is a video from my YT channel that may help with this issue. It is an overview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU78pCmnqTU

My main point is, Do not order MTH Scale Wheels if you are on 3 Rail Track.

Gary

trainroomgary posted:

It is my under standing that HO and N scale operators to not use traction tires.

I've seen lots of HO locomotives with traction tires, I even have several, so that's certainly not a universal fact.   For instance, most of the MTH HO steamers list...

Traction Tire-Equipped Drive Wheels

Cogguy posted:

Ok I have sound no. Checked volume duh. Should a new PS3 board come with sound? Thought I was suppose to load it myself?

Im really enjoying this no matter how frustrated I get. Love learning new things. 

When you do a conventional reset, 5-bells, 1-whistle, you should get the acknowledgment horn honks.  If that doesn't happen, you have the timing off, it's at roughly 1/2 second cadence for the button pushes.

The PS/3 boards apparently come with a sound file loaded, the diesels have the SD-70 sounds.

I think at this point, it may be time to take or send this to someone with the PS/3 test-set and let them check the board. 

I tried the conventional reset multiple time. Are we sure a Lionel controller can do the conventional reset on a PS3?

When you operate conventionally does it run or no motion and no sounds?  If no sounds it would be hard to know reset took.  Additionally Reset must occur in neutral, so if no motion make sure you try it after you have first started up.

Also when you apply power conventionally do all the lights come on at once or just headlight until about 15seconds and than start up?

Are pins 1 and 40 straight, did you inspect and reseat the 40 pin connector?  You can measure continuity at those pins to ensure the switch and wiring and connectors are all good.

NO sounds is an issue though, so I am with John this needs to be tested.  I also have PS-3 Diesel boards if you need a replacement.

PS  Barry,  PS-3 Diesels do not have a DCC/DCS Jumper.  Only PS-3 Steam Tender boards and PS-32 boards via the Daughter board.  PS-3 diesels are via the 40 pin connector.   So either use switch or have to connect those 2 wires.   Hence damage to the 40 pin connector or pins could keep a PS-3 diesel board in DCC mode.  G

I think he said he now has sounds if I read between the lines.

Cogguy posted:

Ok I have sound no. Checked volume duh. Should a new PS3 board come with sound? Thought I was suppose to load it myself?

I believe the no was supposed to be now.

Yes sorry I have sound lights smoke and movement in conventional. Nothing in dcs. 

When the lights come on it take 10 seconds or so and it starts up. I was going to pull the 40 pin plug last night but was tired. I will continue the troubleshooting tomorrow. 

It's normal for conventional mode for PS/3 to take 10-15 seconds to charge the supercaps before sound comes up.

Be careful pulling the plug, do NOT pull on the wires.  They're very small and you can easily pull them out of the connector, then you have more problems.

George,

PS-3 Diesels do not have a DCC/DCS Jumper.  Only PS-3 Steam Tender boards and PS-32 boards via the Daughter board.  PS-3 diesels are via the 40 pin connector. 

Got it - thanks!

Well that is good news to see it runs in conventional, now we need to attack the DCS.  The other is the signal transformer near the Relay.  Donut with wires and 4 legs.  Is it damaged?  Check it after the 40 pin connector.  G

Alright guys, I checked the 40 pin connector no damaged or bent pins. Wire to wire on connector through switch ohmed out good.  The signal transformer looks good no broken wires and also ohmed out. Looked over the board real good and no sign of burning or even any dis colorization. I did try to do the conventional reset still with no luck. I also double checked dcc and everything works in dcc. 

Also installed board into known good unit, strange thing when I hit horn the horn would go off even with no engine programmed into remote. Still would not see engine but can hear processor board working.  

Just not convince the board is bad, does western depot in yuba city, CA have a way of testing? 

Hoping for the best. 

What happens when you try to load it in the remote?  You can try clearing out address 1 in the remote and retry adding.   G

If it works in DCC, that certainly suggests the DCS/DCC switching is the issue.

I have had the remote cleared of everything when trying all this. Every time remote only say "no engine to add" 

i wasn't convinced that it wasn't the switch or connection that's why that board is in another engine for testing.  Still only get "no engine to add"

I must have lost everyone here. Think it did a conventional reset. Finally got a horn at the end but still won't see engine in dcs. 

Still "no engine to add!"

Try using a small jumper wire and shorting the two pins directly at the 40-pin connector.  Poke it right into pin 1 & 2 on the top of the connector.  Power up with that jumper in place and see if it adds.

I put a known good board in the unit last night  and now everything functions as intended. I'm assuming the board is fried. Don't know. Now I've moved on for now to a ps2 dash 9 that does nothing at all and ps2 gp60m that sounds likes its in a tunnel and quiet all the time. Volume is all up. And then a 4-8-4 with PS3 won't move. 

Thank you all for the help. If you think there is something more I can do let me know. I don't even know where to send boards to have them fixed. Hoping one day I will be able to do all the repairs. 

You can send bad boards to me I can evaluate and repair if possible.  E-mail in profile.  For you other engines model numbers matter.  PS-2 5V with 9V battery know to have bad speakers for sound issues, 3V boards with bad batteries can also cause issues with sound, PS-3 do a conventional reset.  G