Pull out the MPC!

I wonder about that depressed center car with the transformer that came with the Mid-Atlantic Set. It must be one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made. Or maybe the longest?  I have that set but it's packed away. Should get the car out and measure it.

@johnstrains posted:

I wonder about that depressed center car with the transformer that came with the Mid-Atlantic Set. It must be one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made. Or maybe the longest?  I have that set but it's packed away. Should get the car out and measure it.

Regarding MPC, there were two different cars that had four trucks.  A xfmr car and a bridge girder car.   Both of those cars are still usually pricey today.   Other than passenger cars,  I can't think of any car that had more distance between the trucks.  And nothing with more trucks.  The fast angle wheels were a huge innovation in the MPC era, especially on these cars and pass cars.

@joe krasko posted:

right you are Ed...

Stand corrected.  But the 60's CN noodle livery, especially on cab units, have survived the test of time.

On Sears sets, there could have been swaps for their sets.

The paint job on the Chessie diesel out of the Royal limited set is unbelievable. My favorite MPC tank car is the British Columbia from the Maple Leaf set. My favorite MPC caboose is the New York Central bay window from the New York Central Empire Express set. Also, from the Empire Express set is my favorite box car the Great Northern. Except for the electronics and the remote control features, these sets are far nicer than the sets they are making today.

Hello All:

Here is the MPC portion of my overall collection to date. I'm always looking to add to the roster constantly.  Quite a few items I purchased from fellow forum members.

Michael

A few more top of the line sets, these are all from mid 1970s. Looking closely at the Chessie U36B, the engine shell appears to be a mockup, especially the top of rear radiator.

@Tommy_F posted:

After a day of battling ‘smart’ everything just to start a car, call someone or watch TV, it’s nice to go downstairs, move one throttle and it all just works.  

MPC was Lionel when I returned from Germany in the mid-70s.  That was back when Mike Wolf was a simple retailer of Lionel before he established a competing brand.  Ordering from the price lists when they were first released, I ensured that MPC became and remains a stalwart part of today's O Gauge Paha Sapa Lines RR in eastern Wyoming.  An almost complete collection of 9200, 9700, and 9400 series boxcars provide most of the wall decor in the train room.

Wow, Bill, that layout is impressive.

Nice collections, all!

As to the four truck depressed center flats with transformers or bridge girders, they were first made in the mid-fifties post war era.

Here is the B&O set and cars.  Lets see the other two.

I wish I could show my MPC. I have just about the entire collection of all the top of the line sets, service station sets, limited editions,  engines, cars, JC Penny items, variations etc and about 30 sealed 6-8190 Diesel B unit horn kits :-)....Unfortunately it is currently in a warehouse storage until my fiancé and I build a new house with a big basement for me....I would love to get another updated MPC guide out someday

Did somebody @ZWPOWER13 say JC Penny? Here are two uncataloged engines.

@Rich Wiemann posted:

Did somebody @ZWPOWER13 say JC Penny? Here are two uncataloged engines.

I have two of those SD18’s- one with the case and one without.  Thought the first one had a bad power truck and got a good price on the second… fixed the truck and now keep one on display while I run the other lol.

ZWpower13, make sure that when you get your new train room, you start a post and show some pictures.

@mlavender480 posted:

I have two of those SD18’s- one with the case and one without.  Thought the first one had a bad power truck and got a good price on the second… fixed the truck and now keep one on display while I run the other lol.

Picked up the pair of used Santa Fe SD-18s for $15 a few yrs ago because the pwr truck was stripped.   Found a NOS pwr truck for $30 at York.   I had a set MOB but was afraid to run them.  The trucks were non repairable (basically) with the side frames swedged on.  I had been told the worm gear was plastic.  So I never ran them to avoid stripping the gear out.   When I bought the NOS truck at York for $30 it had a metal worm gear and I thought it was a later production piece.  I got home to repair the $15 unit and found it had a metal truck also. The armature was not bolted into the motor making it seemed to be stripped.  I looked at my brand new unrun Sd-18 and it had a metal gear also.  So I had not run the SD18’s in fear of stripping out a plastic gear that turned out to be metal after all.  I like the 6 wheel trucks.  MPC 6 wheel cranes also look good to me.

@HSD68 posted:

ZWpower13, make sure that when you get your new train room, you start a post and show some pictures.

Absolutely!

Here's the depressed center transformer car that I mentioned above from the Mid-Atlantic Set.

16 inches from coupler to coupler. Easily one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made.

aussteve  You said,"I am slightly embarrassed to say that 60% of my trains are MPC."

It is my understanding that "MPC" stands for "My Personal Collection" - so the only question I have is,"Who owns the other 40%?"

  I will always view MPC trains as being something special because when I returned from the service shortly after a Thanksgiving a long time ago and went over to the local hobby shop it was MPC trains that welcomed me back from exile.  The dealer had a number of sets and various cars and engines for sale.  I was interested in the Milwaukee Road Heavyweights but I didn't care for the engine that came with the set.  The dealer said no problem - pulled the cars out of one set box - and asked me what my pleasure would be with respect to head end power.  I chose the #8206 Hudson and that train was the first thing I ran after assembling a layout on the rec room floor.

I received this MPC set for my birthday in April 1980:

Long live MPC!

I love my MPC-era rolling stock, but have replaced my MPC engines with LionChief Plus or LionChief Plus 2.0 engines.  Love the speed control and improved sounds and lighting with the new LionChief Plus engines.  LionChief Plus engines running with MPC-era rolling stock is my happy place. 

Here's my MPC Milwaukee Road passenger cars running with a LionChief Plus Milwaukee Road Hudson:

This is about 1/3 of my MPC Stuff, poor photo but the shelfs are 24 feet long and the Southern and Blue Comet set both have the add on Diner Lionel brought out over 20 years ago and the Milwaukee Road set also has the Diner, FDR Car and all the add on and coupon cars. That little locomotive can't even think about pulling all of the cars. The 9700 Series cars are on the other side of the wall and most of the Motive Power is in a display under glass. Nothing wrong with MPC it is some great stuff and very well done.

@johnstrains posted:

I wonder about that depressed center car with the transformer that came with the Mid-Atlantic Set. It must be one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made. Or maybe the longest?  I have that set but it's packed away. Should get the car out and measure it.

@johnstrains posted:

Here's the depressed center transformer car that I mentioned above from the Mid-Atlantic Set.

16 inches from coupler to coupler. Easily one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made.

Here's one I have on display, with a custom load I fixed for it. Yup, 16 inches long coupler end to coupler end; body is 14 7/8 inches. Great cars. It should be mentioned that these are all diecast metal! I added some decals to letter it for Union Pacific, and also painted the deck ends with a textured paint to give those more of an appearance of wood.

If I remember correctly, I believe a lot of those cars came with broken insulators. Lionel also made this car with two plastic girders. The car came with blue rubber bands. A lot of the rubber bands came dry rotted. Both of these cars were also made back in the fifties.

Lionel MPC era RDC cars.

I have a lot of MPC and just about everything they made with New York Central inscribed on it.  This is the set that lured me back into the Lionel Train hobby at the ripe old age of 24 in 1977. Still warms my heart to look at this set.

@jim sutter posted:

If I remember correctly, I believe a lot of those cars came with broken insulators. Lionel also made this car with two plastic girders. The car came with blue rubber bands. A lot of the rubber bands came dry rotted. Both of these cars were also made back in the fifties.

I had several of those plastic transformers, but the insulators were ok. The transformers were easily available. The no. 6509 was a grey depressed-center flatcar with two tuscan colored bridge girders. I think the rubber bands were just to hold the girders in place in the box during shipping.

@johnstrains posted:

Here's the depressed center transformer car that I mentioned above from the Mid-Atlantic Set.

16 inches from coupler to coupler. Easily one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made.

Not only is it long, its quite heavy with a diecast frame and 4 diecast trucks.  I remember having the 8770 EMD NW-2 switcher from the 1977 Cargo King set and with the transformer car and just one or two other pieces of rolling stock the 8770 had a tough time getting the train moving.

@franktrain posted:

Here’s a recent acquisition that has wet my appetite for MPC. 1971 Illinois Central set.

Boy, does this bring back memories!  My first Lionel train set was the 1972 incarnation of the Cross Country Express.  In addition to the IC GP9 and caboose, it had a Southern boxcar, B&O silver double door boxcar, a brown N&W hopper, L&N flat with bulldozer and scraper kits and Shell tank car.  I got it for Christmas that year.  It turned out to be a "Family Gift".  When I opened the box on Christmas morning there was only the locomotive, caboose, Southern boxcar, N&W hopper and Shell tank car, along with an oval of track and the transformer.  My grandparents (on both sides), aunts and uncles proceeded to give me the remaining components later in the day at various Christmas parties.

I still have the train set, but the locomotive power truck failed several years ago.  i just haven't taken the initiative to get it fixed.  The transformer is in use on my current layout as an accessory power supply.

I sure had a lot of fun with the MPC stuff!

Tom

@NYC Fan posted:

I have a lot of MPC and just about everything they made with New York Central inscribed on it.  This is the set that lured me back into the Lionel Train hobby at the ripe old age of 24 in 1977. Still warms my heart to look at this set.

That was a hot set back in the day, with some very desirable cars, particularly the colorful Great Northern boxcar, the Southern Big John hopper, the chrome Pennzoil tank car, and the NYC "Road to the Future" bay window. I remember there was a lot of discussion back then about the "P & E" annotation on the caboose, and what division of the NYC that represented.

@ed h posted:

A few more top of the line sets, these are all from mid 1970s. Looking closely at the Chessie U36B, the engine shell appears to be a mockup, especially the top of rear radiator.

I fell in love with the 8470 Chessie U36B locomotive when I saw it in the catalog.  I had to have one, so I asked my parents for it for Christmas.  I was told that it was only available in the set and they could not afford to get me another set.  I resigned myself to the fact that I wouldn't own this engine.

A couple of weeks before Christmas my father asked me to get something out of the trunk of the car for him.  Being we kept the car in our attached garage, the keys were always left in the ignition.  When I went out to the car the keys weren't there.  Puzzled, I reached under the seat thinking they might have fallen on the floor.  My hand ran into a box under the seat.  Lo and behold, there was the Chessie U36B locomotive.  After admiring it for several minutes I carefully put it back where I found it and spent the next weeks playing dumb.  I acted surprised on Christmas morning when I opened the package.

I still have this locomotive and it still runs like new.

Tom

@RJT posted:

This is about 1/3 of my MPC Stuff, poor photo but the shelfs are 24 feet long and the Southern and Blue Comet set both have the add on Diner Lionel brought out over 20 years ago and the Milwaukee Road set also has the Diner, FDR Car and all the add on and coupon cars.

If you want to complete that Milwaukee set, you may want to check out the no. 52402, a special issue ice car reefer put out by the Lionel Milwaukee Railroad Club a number of years ago. It's meant to go with the MPC era Milwaukee passenger cars, and matches the colors. Pretty hard to find, although Grzyboski's has one listed for sale right now. Kind of fun that this car was issued, long after the MPC cars were made. I have these Milwaukee cars running behind a MPC era no. 8558 MIlwaukee EP-5, which is a perfect color match, and the set looks like the shot below.

I put the Milwaukee EP-5 shell on a PWC (Post War Celebration) series EP-5 chassis (was a New Haven EP-5) (very easy to do), which gives it TMCC, RailSounds, directional constant lighting, electrocouplers, and crew figures. I'm a big fan of PWC, and besides the EP-5, have also converted some MPC F3s and Geeps with PWC chassis'.

@John Meyncke posted:

My favorite MPC...it took me forever to find the B unit.

John

I got this locomotive set when a local hobby shop was going out of business.  They had the AA set at MSRP and I wasn't going to pay that much for a locomotive that I didn't find particularly attractive.  I went into the shop several times to buy rolling stock during the going out of business sale and eyed the set every time I was in there. It was starting to grow on me. One day several weeks later my brother came home and told me that they had just announced that everything was 75% off.  We jumped in his truck and made a bee-line for the shop.  I walked in and grabbed the locomotive set.  As I was walking toward the counter a gentleman walked in the door and stopped in his tracks as he saw me holding the F3's.  He dropped his head and turned around, walking back out the door.  As I was leaving, another gentleman saw me in the parking lot and approached me, inquiring if I was interested in selling the engines.  Needless to say, I turned him down.  It turned out I made a good decision as these units had dual motors and were extremely good pullers.  I found a B unit at Trainworld to complete the set.

Tom

breezinup,

The tank car in the N.Y.C. Empire Express Set was a chrome Sunoco Tank Car not Pennzoil. Also back then the chrome on the Sunoco tank car got funny looking.

Take away the electronics and remote control features the sets that Lionel is making today are not as nice as these.

@jim sutter posted:

breezinup,

The tank car in the N.Y.C. Empire Express Set was a chrome Sunoco Tank Car not Pennzoil. Also back then the chrome on the Sunoco tank car got funny looking.

Take away the electronics and remote control features The sets that Lionel is making today are not as nice as these.

Right, Jim, it was the Sunoco tank car. I completely agree that the MPC sets are unsurpassed by what's made today.

The annual Limited boxed sets, including the Milwaukee Road, Chessie Royal Ltd., Southern Pacific, Great Northern Rocky Mountain, Reading Quaker City, CP Maple Leaf, among them, were all extremely nice, with very attractive colors and variety of cars. The FARR (Famous American Railroads) series was also great, including the Great Northern, UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy, and Southern. A number of those had Berkshires for engines, built the same as the highly-regarded Postwar variety. Better, in fact, because of their interesting prototypical paint schemes.

Acquiring some of these sets, or even just the cars and running them behind a LionChief engine, if command control and cruise is desired, would yield a lot of railroading enjoyment.

@breezinup posted:

Right, Jim, it was the Sunoco tank car. I completely agree that the MPC sets are unsurpassed by what's made today.

The annual Limited boxed sets, including the Milwaukee Road, Chessie Royal Ltd., Southern Pacific, Great Northern Rocky Mountain, Reading Quaker City, CP Maple Leaf, among them, were all extremely nice, with very attractive colors and variety of cars. The FARR (Famous American Railroads) series was also great, including the Great Northern, UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy, and Southern. A number of those had Berkshires for engines, built the same as the highly-regarded Postwar variety. Better, in fact, because of their interesting prototypical paint schemes.

Acquiring some of these sets, or even just the cars and running them behind a LionChief engine, if command control and cruise is desired, would yield a lot of railroading enjoyment.

Since I have the Royal Limited set, I picked up the LionChief Chessie U36B from set 82324 for a very attractive price and can run it with the Royal Limited cars.  Kind of like having a retro set with modern features.

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

I assume the cars have plastic wheelsets?  I had some of the low end cars like this and I switched the wheelsets to metal ones.  Made a big difference in the tracking of the cars. 

Tom

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

@Tom Densel posted:

I assume the cars have plastic wheelsets?  I had some of the low end cars like this and I switched the wheelsets to metal ones.  Made a big difference in the tracking of the cars.

Tom

This Black River Freight set was a very inexpensive basic 0-27 starter set. Even the steam engine is made of plastic, not heavy diecast metal like most Lionel engines. That is a big reason it doesn't track very well. The cars are small and very light, with fixed couplers - as basic as you can get.  It was really made for small children as a starter set, so you shouldn't expect a lot out of it. The majority of MPC sets that have been discussed here are in a completely different league.

Tom Thank You for that information I just ordered it. To think for all these years I thought I had the complete set.

I've had a crescent limited set for a while and the SOS in the tender was shot. I just added a pickup to the tender and installed a railsound package. I'll have to get the matching cars out for a video.

@ed h posted:

Since I have the Royal Limited set, I picked up the LionChief Chessie U36B from set 82324 for a very attractive price and can run it with the Royal Limited cars.  Kind of like having a retro set with modern features.

I considered getting a LionChief Plus D&H RS3 to run with my Coastal Freight set.  Those LTI service station sets seemed to have nice cars with die cast trucks etc, but cheaper starter-set locomotives.  I wonder why?

@RJT posted:

Tom Thank You for that information I just ordered it. To think for all these years I thought I had the complete set.

Glad you got it. Interesting that Grysboski happened to have one when this topic came up. They don't show up very often. They sold out pretty quickly when they came out a number of years ago, I recall. I run it as a head-end car as an express reefer.

@breezinup posted:

Glad you got it. Interesting that Grysboski happened to have one when this topic came up. They don't show up very often. They sold out pretty quickly when they came out a number of years ago, I recall. I run it as a head-end car as an express reefer.

Unfortunately, Grzyboski’s is my local bad influence of choice I keep saying that I have to stop looking at their website, but I haven’t learned how to just yet... every couple of weeks I feel an undeniable urge to search their site. Lately, I have found some amazing NOS items such as a Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson, a set of Lionel aluminum 15” D&H passenger cars, a set set of MTH D&H passenger cars, and a set of MTH NH passenger cars. I really need to stop!!!

@mlavender480 posted:

I considered getting a LionChief Plus D&H RS3 to run with my Coastal Freight set.  Those LTI service station sets seemed to have nice cars with die cast trucks etc, but cheaper starter-set locomotives.  I wonder why?

During the LTI period, the Service Station engines were pretty much the same as the normal production engines, not cheap starter set locos. Picking up a LionChief Plus version of the D&H RS-3 seems like a good idea to get upgraded features like command and cruise.

Here's a link for some great information on the history of Service Station sets, and a complete list of all Service Station sets produced, which was meticulously documented by Bill Schmeelk for the LCCA publication "The Lion Roars:"

https://www.lionelcollectors.o...alogs/SSS%20sets.pdf

Figured I'd ask here since this is probably the best thread to do so, I recently got my hands on the MPC era Bicentennial locomotive. It ran fine, until it decided to cook it's E unit on me that is.... Would I be able to slap it's shell on one of the newer Lionchief U36bs or are there some differences between the old and new frames? I've currently got it's shell sitting on a conventional GP-38's chassis so this isn't super urgent but figured I'd ask for the heck of it.

@breezinup posted:

During the LTI period, the Service Station engines were pretty much the same as the normal production engines, not cheap starter set locos. Picking up a LionChief Plus version of the D&H RS-3 seems like a good idea to get upgraded features like command and cruise.

The RS3 that came with the set isn’t bad, but not great either.  Plastic trucks, cheap can motors, lightweight.  As mentioned earlier I also have the Great Lakes Express, with the 2-6-4 engine.  Again, it’s ok but not great.  Runs with a lot of gear noise and the lightweight tender has a sticky coupler.  Both sets have nice cars with die-cast trucks and good graphics.  

Thinking about it now, though, those were the engines Lionel was offering then.  Most diesels were the motor-in-truck variety, and they had several 2-6-4 steamers for separate sale.  They weren’t cheap, either.  For a “good” diesel, you had to step up to the dual-pullmor SD40 or a bit later, the GE Dash 8’s.  A step up in steam power was probably the various 2-8-4 and 4-8-4’s they produced… and I think some of those had their own problems.

Hi Guys, this is a super great thread!!  I still work full time and am always late and a dollar short to these parties.  This got me thinking about the set that got me back into the hobby, the Famous America Railroad #3 the Great Northern from 1981.  The 4-8-4 engine and five cars were sold separately and did not come in a set box.

They engine and cars are back in their boxes, so all I have is pictures of the engine box.  It is a majestic running engine and has the "Electronic Mighty Sound of Steam" in the Tender.   

So, in previous threads about the Sound of Steam it has been pointed out, that the foam insulation that protects the board from the tender's metal frame degrades over time and eventually causes the board to short out because the underside of the board will touch the metal frame. The board is difficult, if not impossible to find.     I have been putting off repairing this problem before it happens to my set, until this thread started.  Last time I ran the engine was five years ago. Sure enough, the foam insulation was bad.  It was not evident until I took the board off the frame, it was a mess, I have cleaned it up. I think this exists in multiple tenders, for different road names.

Here are a few pictures:

Below is a close up, the foam was probably 3/16th inch thick at some point, but it was just pile of dust with rubber membranes when I cleaned it. I have some thick double sided foam tape that I will use as a replacement.  I should be good to go for another 40 years! 

Mark Holmgren, I agree that much of the MPC trains were low quality, especially the first few years.  Even some of the higher end stuff with the cheezy snap off pickup rollers, plastic drive gears, and non repairable power trucks.  And the poor quality probably soured some kids on Lionel as a result.  In your case, I wouldn't hesitate to put weights in the cars or even swap out the plastic wheel sets with the all metal wheel sets.  Those things can always be reversed.

But MPC did keep Lionel afloat and ultimately produced some higher quality trains as well as some not so great train sets.  I didn't get back into trains until 1988 or so.  I missed the bulk of the MPC period.  And I learned quickly what to stay away from.  So most of my purchases of MPC were things that were already issued and had peer reviews on.  I guess I dodged the bullet in a sense.

Still your first train will always be your first and have significant charm and memories.  Enjoy

Some other MPC items (mostly) 

For this display shelf, the tracks are powered so they cars will light up.  The set on the bottom is a Northern Pacific service station special. 

A shelf of MPC boxes, (not sure how those red dot sight boxes got in the picture, sorry). 

More MPC boxes. I am trying to emulate Jim Sutter. LOL

On my small 0-27 layout, I have a sectioned devoted to porthole cabooses. 

Another display shelf of MPC box cars with cabooses in the back.  I use some 0-27 rails as an end-stop to keep the cars on the shelf, in case we get an earthquake, which happens from time to time in the Pacific Northwest. It has been a long time since one happened so, I should have not said anything.

This is a lot of fun!  Best, Dave

Brewman 1973,
Enjoyed looking at all your freight cars. Do you have the non-powered Northern Pacific diesel that matches your service station set? I believe the number was #8668.

I think Lionel should rerun all their tobacco cars, all the pop cars and all the billboard reefers. I would also love to see them make any new pop, candy, beer, tobacco, food product cars that are very colorful. Examples Maxwell House Coffee, Starbucks Coffee, Nestles Quick Chocolate Drink, Grape Crush, Dad's Old Fashion Root Beer, Hires Root beer, Blue Buffalo Dog Food, Del Monte or Libby's can Peaches, Betty Crocker and Duncan Hines cake mixes.   

Excuse the flash, MPC EMD Erie Lackawannas

PRRick, is the "B" unit MUd to the Pacific to help keep that excursion train moving?

"I really need to stop!!!"  Har har hardee har har!

Patrick B, the MPC shell probably attached to frame with screws through both ends whereas current production seems to connect shells to chassis with screws up through the chassis into bolsters (bosses) on the inside of the shells.

@jim sutter posted:

I think Lionel should rerun all their tobacco cars,... beer, tobacco...

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

@ADCX Rob posted:

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

MTH sells beer cars with no such labeling.

@breezinup posted:

This Black River Freight set was a very inexpensive basic 0-27 starter set. Even the steam engine is made of plastic, not heavy diecast metal like most Lionel engines. That is a big reason it doesn't track very well. The cars are small and very light, with fixed couplers - as basic as you can get.  It was really made for small children as a starter set, so you shouldn't expect a lot out of it. The majority of MPC sets that have been discussed here are in a completely different league.

Perhaps, but the set I described is very much of the same make-up, including some identically built (though differently liveried) rolling stock.  And yet I did not have that problem.  For example, I have found that track assembled carefully on a hard surface or even screwed down to a board is a very important step toward reliable operations with the cheaper rolling stock (though it will always benefit even the best).  Even my plastic-wheeled, light-as-a-feather hopper tracked reliably for me.

Anecdotal evidence is hardly conclusive, but broad-brushing obscures the wide variability in circumstances, leading to the inaccurate generalizations that have damaged MPC's reputation.

@jim sutter posted:

Brewman 1973,
Enjoyed looking at all your freight cars. Do you have the non-powered Northern Pacific diesel that matches your service station set? I believe the number was #8668.

Hi Jim, Yes I Do!  It has a prominent spot on the "wall of fame" in my large train room.  The upper and lower shelves are MPC Boxes mainly with the 9700 series of boxcars.  Both of my granddads worked for the Northern Pacific Railroad, so it is my favorite railroad. 

Brewman1973, so glad you have the matching Northern Pacific non-powered diesel.

@ADCX Rob posted:

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

Hi Rob, that is what Lionel is doing with the Budweiser items that they have cataloged over the last few years. The box has the "FOR AGES 21 OR OLDER" on it.  The catalog has similar language.  The reefers have the look and feel as the MPC era cars with upgraded trucks.  Kind of funny, while I am Brewman" I rarely drink, and when I do it is usually vino.  The set is more of shout out to the Clydesdales, rather than beer.  I did not have any MPC beer cars, but have added a few now, so in a way this has helped the MPC secondary market.     

Well, I don't have one of the "top of the line" sets, but this one is still fully intact including a fair amount of "paper" goods that they packed inside.  It also has a plain cardboard inner cover to protect the trains, which is something that I did not find in my other sets.

So here is the Wabash Cannonball set from 1970-72

OOPS--I Pulled the switch before I had entered the pictures and there is no way of deleting an entry (at least as I found) so anyway here are the pictures that were supposed to go in the post above - SORRY!!

The MPC "Wabash Cannonball" set from 1972-73  Here is the set box.

Here is the inside of the box with both the trains and all of the "paper items" that came packed with the set.  Note the List of Authorized Service Stations 1972-73, Track planning and operating instructions for the trains, instructions for wiring and operating accessories (none included), an accessories catalog and a warranty.  By the way, we have talked about cost.  Well this set had a price list included for the items you could buy individually.  The most expensive steam engine (a 4-6-4 Hudson) was $97.66, the most expensive diesel (IC GP-9) was $44.99, all the rolling stock was between $4.68 (CN Hopper) and $9.30 (9700 series box cars ), track sections were 50 cents each straight or curved, RCS and crossings were $6.99.  (In case you are interested, inflation factor from 1972 $ to Dec 2021 $ is 6.78)

A little closer view of the trains / track / and transformer.  Note one difference between the box cover picture and the trains included.  The picture shows a sloped back tender, in fact the tender included is a more traditional square tender.

Here is a close up of the #8040 engine.  Which after lubrication ran fine.  Probably been sitting in that box for 20 years!

Here is the caboose.  It like most of the rolling stock is on the low cost end is almost fully plastic. However the train had no trouble negotiating my level layout and 0-22 switches.  Nothing came off the track.

Here is the full train.

So most certainly not one of the top of the line sets, but somewhat above a "starter set"  I think it gave good value.  My engine ran well but did not have smoke, light or whistle.

@coach joe posted:

PRRick, is the "B" unit MUd to the Pacific to help keep that excursion train moving?

"I really need to stop!!!"  Har har hardee har har!

Patrick B, the MPC shell probably attached to frame with screws through both ends whereas current production seems to connect shells to chassis with screws up through the chassis into bolsters (bosses) on the inside of the shells.

Darn, ah well. Funnily enough that GP38 frame playing host to my Bicentennial shell actually had the "screws on the bottom" bit but after I got the shell off I saw it had the two "on the end" screw brackets hidden away under the shell. I'm tempted to gamble and buy one of the Lionchief ones regardless but don't want to accidentally add another engine to my collection when I need to actually be fixing one.

I recently acquired  this set. I had some of it as a kid. This one has all the paper and cardboard accessories. I would love to get a James gang set, and the Southern Pacific daylight steam and f-3 set with aluminum passenger cars. Those were so amazing to my 12 year old mind...

I’m hooked! MPC sure is colorful and addictive. Added these three today.

They still need to be lubed and checked they have been sitting in boxes for a while.

franktrain,

You did very well today. You purchased three very nice locomotives.

Here's some more MPC's still hard at work after decades of service. Those B&O's are my wife's favorites because of their beautiful paint scheme at the GG-1 runs like a watch!

Is anybody else still running their MPC GG-1?

Don W.,

I can understand your wife liking those B. and O, diesels. They are sharp looking. Your Pennsylvania GG-1 is a favorite for a lot of people.

@brr posted:

I recently acquired  this set. I had some of it as a kid. This one has all the paper and cardboard accessories. I would love to get a James gang set, and the Southern Pacific daylight steam and f-3 set with aluminum passenger cars. Those were so amazing to my 12 year old mind...

Nice set!

Here's some of my better MPC pieces:

MPC is one of the eras of Lionel I have the most of, along with Postwar and items made during Richard Kughn's ownership. I can understand why it's not liked by every 3-rail collector, but for a while I've believed that MPC in general is kind of underrated. I think the biggest advantage they have over Postwar was the variety of road names, which I think is one of the Postwar era's biggest weaknesses. I mean, most of the hoppers were Lehigh Valley. Love to know what that was about, haha!

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

MTH sells beer cars with no such labeling.

The settlement the tobacco companies have with the USA really limited their advertising ability and where their brands and logos could appear.  They could no longer sponsor sporting events or teams, logos could no longer appear on die- cast collectibles.  Many brands were involved with NASCAR and even sponsored the top series.  That all had to end.  According to that settlement I'm not sure if Lionel could re-produce those reefers even with an "Adult Collectible" or age related disclaimer.

@Patrick B posted:

Darn, ah well. Funnily enough that GP38 frame playing host to my Bicentennial shell actually had the "screws on the bottom" bit but after I got the shell off I saw it had the two "on the end" screw brackets hidden away under the shell. I'm tempted to gamble and buy one of the Lionchief ones regardless but don't want to accidentally add another engine to my collection when I need to actually be fixing one.

Maybe start another post asking those with LionChief locos to see if the LionChief  locos have those brackets before you gamble.

Here is a unit trains worth of MPC shorty box cars from Toys R Us exclusive sets.

My first GG1...

Here are 4 different versions of the Cracker Jack car.

Silver Lake - nice run - so now that you have all of the inanimate versions are you going to try to get the animated version?  It is my understanding these cars are supposed to have variations as well.

Robert S. Butler : WOW!  This is a "red letter day" for me, it is not often (perhaps never) that I can supply some information to you as you have MANY TIMES to me.  So in answer to your question, YES there is at least one (2 is rumored but I have never seen the 3 rd one) variation of the "Toys R Us" Giraffe car with "Geoffrey" the giraffe.  Here it is, the Lionel 7912, from 1983, generally called the "STAR" car for obvious reasons.

However before we leave this delightful venue, let us not forget our Japanese friends.  This tiny car has no makers mark and is just labeled "made in Japan".  I suspect due to the rather high quality lithography, that it dates from the late 1950's to the 1960's

Best Wishes to all and Robert thank you for all the help you have sent to me in the forum

Don

Full smile and half smile Mickey Mouse TCA cars.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Silver Lake - nice run - so now that you have all of the inanimate versions are you going to try to get the animated version?  It is my understanding these cars are supposed to have variations as well.

For my own sanity since I am trying to make the full transition to 2 rail scale O scale and building most things myself, I put hard limits on my 3 rail collection to the short double door boxcars. It is all I can justify keeping a bit of it. Here is some more of my MPC short boxcar collection and a cheater short hopper (shh don’t tell). At least it goes well with the theme of the TRU cars. Of the boxcars some are quite common and others somewhat rare but fit into the pre 1986 MPC cut off.

The EL car at the top used up some Wheaties car shells and most 7925s are grey.

This car came up in conversation earlier this week about the Lionel Kiddie City Toy Stores.

Ok one more here is my Absolute favorite MPC set. I am sure I am quite alone in this… The Black Cave Flyer. A simple low budget starter set that had to have all decorations applied with glow in the dark stickers. It was the most 1980’s thing ever with cardboard playset back drops and a plastic mat. It played deeply into the Dungeons and Dragons craze of the era and I loved it  

It was the perfect Halloween themed set and a lot of fun.

Canadian Toy Fair car from 1976.

Nothin' to see here, folks.  Just an ol' operating poultry car from the 1983 Collector's Series catalog.  Unlike some later remakes, the poop sweeper's movement is activated by soldered wire tension--no rubber bands here.  Electrical pickup for the lighting is rather tenuous, but the fowl don't appear to be bothered by that.

@ogaugetrains23 posted:

Canadian Toy Fair car from 1976.

Now THAT is a rare car.   Maybe 250 made?   It was a very low production run.  

@Silver Lake posted:

Here is a unit trains worth of MPC shorty box cars from Toys R Us exclusive sets.

Very nice! I definitely want to get all of those at some point. Toys R Us was one of my favorite stores to shop at, and I even used to work there too.

This is the rarest car I own Tommy F. Cracker Jack should have red with white lettering, mine only has red. Greenberg says about 50 made this way while McComas/Tuohy go a little more in depth with about 75 being made before this was corrected.

I sure enjoy looing at all your MPC.

Tommy F. I have a question for you. It pertains to your Union Pacific passenger set. Does the paint on your cars and diesels match?

The number of variations on MPC products far exceeds anything I've read about postwar.  And they are stunning to look at.  One vendor at York specializes in them, and I always stop and talk with him to see what new things he has brought.

@jim sutter posted:

I sure enjoy looing at all your MPC.

Tommy F. I have a question for you. It pertains to your Union Pacific passenger set. Does the paint on your cars and diesels match?

Jim,

The bodies of the cars match the engines, but the doors do not match the bodies of the cars   It’s shame as this could have been the best looking set in the series:

@ogaugetrains23 posted:

This is the rarest car I own Tommy F. Cracker Jack should have red with white lettering, mine only has red. Greenberg says about 50 made this way while McComas/Tuohy go a little more in depth with about 75 being made before this was corrected.

That 9853 is my white whale.  Been after one for 20+ years.  I’ve come close a couple times but never landed one.

Here’s the rare bird in my collection, the two-level 9123 auto carrier.   From my observations I think there are a few more of these than your 9853, but not many (maybe 100 or so):

The paint on my B unit is a different yellow then the A units.

@ogaugetrains23 posted:

This is the rarest car I own Tommy F. Cracker Jack should have red with white lettering, mine only has red. Greenberg says about 50 made this way while McComas/Tuohy go a little more in depth with about 75 being made before this was corrected.

Gee and I thought I was lucky have both version only to find out there is a third version. Very Cool Mine has white shadowing around the red lettering.

.

Good to see of the rolling stock making it's way into this thread.

My Cracker Jack car with a Miller Engineering sign

This was a little display I put together a few years ago at one of our clubs open house.

A few years ago I stumbled upon this website, unfortunately it seems that the links are no longer working. It was quite interesting when it was working.

https://lioneltoytrainvariatio...DERN_PHOTO_INDEX.php

My wife found this MPC era Midland Freight set on eBay, this is the same set I received in 1986. Works perfectly and in decent cosmetic shape.

Having fun running it on my carpet layout

Tommy F your lucky that's all it was. I can remember seeing about six shades of yellow going through the set.

@ed h posted:

A few years ago I stumbled upon this website, unfortunately it seems that the links are no longer working. It was quite interesting when it was working.

https://lioneltoytrainvariatio...DERN_PHOTO_INDEX.php

That's a great chart. The 9200 series is particularly interesting. In that early period, Lionel was still fishing parts out of the Postwar bins and mixing them with newer production, and also mixing around different boxcar types. In addition, they can vary with some having metal door guides, some plastic, etc. It's fun to collect these. I  have three 9204 Northern Pacific boxcars, and all three are different molding designs. One is also painted a lighter green, very attractive, and looks like a completely different car from the others.

@Tommy_F posted:

Jim,

The bodies of the cars match the engines, but the doors do not match the bodies of the cars   It’s shame as this could have been the best looking set in the series:

I was tasked with ordering seven complete sets from one dealer & all at the same time for friends.  Once they arrived I found several shades of yellow in each box of cars.  Spent an entire summer afternoon with them all laid out on the family room trying to make matched sets for everyone.  Came close.  Subsequently, was told that when painting with "yellow paint" the pigments settle to the bottom of the paint container - thus the varying shades.

Well, I posted one of my sets a few days ago, but wanted to keep this post going.  So I "discovered" this early MPC box car from 1970 and thought I would post that.

Here is the Lionel (MPC) Union Pacific # 9203 box car from 1970.

This is the end view, showing that this is the original box with the proper stamping on the flap.

You know, the odd thing about this MPC is that folks like me who are in their 70's still seem to think about MPC as "new" trains (or at least I do) .  In fact MPC started 52 years ago and quit 37 years ago!  I guess they just aren't "new" anymore. 

Don

@Tommy_F posted:

Jim,

The bodies of the cars match the engines, but the doors do not match the bodies of the cars   It’s shame as this could have been the best looking set in the series:

@SURFLINER posted:

I was tasked with ordering seven complete sets from one dealer & all at the same time for friends.  Once they arrived I found several shades of yellow in each box of cars.  Spent an entire summer afternoon with them all laid out on the family room trying to make matched sets for everyone.  Came close.  Subsequently, was told that when painting with "yellow paint" the pigments settle to the bottom of the paint container - thus the varying shades.

Back years ago, I noticed the paint differences on the UP set and discussed it with a couple guys at the train dealer I then frequented. The indication was that yellow was the hardest color to match at the time, with the then-current painting technology for these aluminum cars. I didn't know exactly why that was, so it is interesting to have more detail from Surfliner.

More than the doors, as Surfliner mentions, usually at least one of the cars (sometimes two) wasn't a complete match, at least that I noticed in the sets I saw. One of them in particular, don't remember which (baggage?), seemed the most problematic, although sometimes several might be slightly different shades. I assumed those had been run a different day or days, with a different batch of paint, or something like that. Eventually I managed to get a set that matched well, but many of these sets had some color issues. Not awful, but noticable. 

Re: the comment about potentially being the best looking set in the series, I think that honor goes to the SP Daylight set. Those passenger cars, with their complicated and multicolor paint scheme, were superbly done.

@Patrick B posted:

... but don't want to accidentally add another engine to my collection...

Hmm?  I might have to try this the next time I show up with a large orange box.  "  I'm sorry, Honey.  I accidentally bought it."

Tom