Railsounds 2.5 Rev 1.2

Is there a lionel part number like 6xx-xxxx-xxx on the RS 2.5 board.  It could be a diesel board.  The switch would turn off the diesel ramp up but allow bell and horn.

 

The SOS board from a steam engine.  Should have the AC power in then the chuff trigger.  G

There are three wires on the Sound of Steam Board. Black, Blue and Brown. Whistle and chuff work on Black and Brown. I assume the chuff switch is black then to chassis ground. But whistle does not work on Brown and blue as I assumed. I assumed it should be some combination of Ac and chuff switch also. But what combination? Hate to toast the board by trial and error. Do you have a wiring diagram. In the 1-9 supplements it shows white and yellow as AC and black to chuff switch on smoke unit. Another version shows the Center wire to motor field and outer wires to brushes. I do not understand that version? Thanks, Fred

The only numbers on the board are what is on the chips and what I posted above. I am starting to think it is a Diesel/electric board also. Sounds like an F-3 and also a K-line GG1 on YouTube. But what is the Chuffer circuit that Digital Dynamics mentions? And is there a Lionel part number? Since I have no diesels, anyone willing to swap for a steam one or have steam chips? Fred

Judging from the larger chip, it looks like a steam board. Maybe from the B&A or C&O Hudson?, Or the Santa Fe 2-8-2. A early Railsounds 2 engine.

The electronic SOS board as no separate chuff input. It operates from motor voltage.

. I can post a wiring diagram tomorrow, if no one else does beforehand.

Thanks

How about a picture of the small chip, that's the one that will identify the sound set.

It is shown, but can't ID. the specific loco.

You're right Chuck, I was spacing I guess when looking at the pictures.   I don't recognize that at all...

 

Chuck may be rights since the large chip is a S12.  The diesels I have were D12.

 

I am confused, you said you had the SOS chuffing, you also said the whistle/bell button made a whistle sound so how did you power it?

 

If you examine where the wires go in you should be able to determine which wire is AC ground.  Either way the instructions say to just reverse leads if it doesn't work.  So I would go Blue and Brown for AC and then black is chuff.  See if whistle button works.  If not reverse the Blue and Brown leads.  G

I think it could be from the warhorse set. If you remove the chips and then install in a RS3 or 4 sound board you would hear what you have. Replace both chips as a set. 

 

Bill

Hi Bill, If you read above I wrote that I was able to power it up by jumping the potentiometer connections. It sounds like both the F-3 Diesel and also the K-line GG1 that are on you tube. They are both Railsounds 2.5. So I think it is a generic combo chip. What I was curious about is the Chuffer circiut that supposed to control the diesel RPMs. I can only intermittently jump the outer most two leads on the three wire sensor connector. It gave me what sounded like a steam chuff. I am starting to think that was a wrong assumption. But I think I need to duplicate this Chuffer circuit. Fred

Hi GGG, I get the chuff using AC from transformer for intermittent jumps connections to Black and Brown and the whistle when I jump Black and Brown with AC and push either the Bell for continuous or the Whistle button. I do not get anything if I connect Brown/Blue, Black/Blue. Not sure if I am explaining properly but I do not understand what the blue wire does. Fred

Bill, let's add to ONLY try removing the chips from these PLCC sockets with the proper extraction tool!  If you try prying them out with a screwdriver, you'll almost surely crack the socket and make the board into junk.

Hi John, I would only use a chip removal tool. But since I have no other sound boards to put them in, it is a mute point. But I can hear the bell, whistle sounds like a horn and now I need to figure out how to trigger engine sounds.

For steam it is either the reed switch, hall sensor or micro switch of puffer arm. All can be simulated with a wire and intermittently making the connection. What about the diesel/ electric sounds. Digital Dynamics manual mentions a "Chuffer circuit" but no details.

For diesel look here,

 

http://www.lionel.com/media/su...ent36/36Complete.pdf

 

Bill

Hi Bill, The diesel shown is TMCC. And the RS2.5 board is connected to a LRCU. It shows what looks like a two wire momentary switch going to pin 2 and 3 on the speed sensor 3pin connector. No indication of a cam or anything to trigger connection. Mine makes noise chuff or whatever when making 1 and 3. Also shut down does sound like steam release but I suppose that could be brakes. Hoping to use mine as standalone in conventional.

RS 2.5 diesel sounds were the same as steam, they used a chuff switch.  At least the ones I've run across did that.

 

Hi John, What do they use to trigger the switch? A cam on the axle? Sounds like you're saying that if I put a chuff switch on the smoke lever, With the exception of the horn, It should be pretty similar to rail sounds steam chip.

On A GP09 and the Phantom locomotive with RS 2.5, they have a cam on the axle and a microswitch to trigger the RPM change.

Not the same in sound.  Diesel has diesel engine with rpm ramp up.  Horn and bell from a diesel engine.

 

The steam board had steam sounds and chuff, with whistle and bell.

 

The trigger method was the same.  A cam against a switch.

 

Later stuff used a hall effect sensor.  G

Hi GGG,
This is what it sounds like.
I used a momentary switch to trigger the "chuff"
Tried changing throttle and still could not get a diesel Revving sound.
More like steam chuff except fot that"horn"

Fred

I just found another limit on the Iphone.
Tried to upload from my browser but I need Adobe Flash.
No such thing on Iphone.

Will try from my laptop.

Yet another reason I never got an iPhone and probably never will.  Apple thumbs their nose at established standards just because they don't like them.

 

It's a corporate phone. I never thumbs down free. Unlimited data.

"Yet another reason I never got an iPhone and probably never will.  Apple thumbs their nose at established standards just because they don't like them."

 

John,

That's not an accurate statement. Apple doesn't allow Flash because that application is a hackers paradise for putting MALWARE on PCs and phones. Not allowing Flash or Java keeps your OS a lot safer. OH, it may not allow you to work all the sites that use it, but ask yourself, do the websites really care if my phone, tablet or PC gets a virus?

I say this because I've been in IT for the last 28 years and currently use both Apple products and Microsoft products. Personally, when I do my banking on line, I always reach for my MAC. The one without Flash or Java on it.

I don't feel like starting an argument about Apple here, let's just agree to disagree.   I'm glad you're satisfied with your Mac, I'm quite happy with my lack of the same.

If you are still needing a wiring diagram for the SOS and Whistle board:

Thanks Chuck. That is what I was looking for.

Finally able to upload video. Hopefully someone may be able to identify this chip.

Used a momentary switch to trigger "chuff. Bell is nice and clear.

even with an upgraded speaker, the "horn' still sounds like a bleating animal.

It seems to have two sounds . short bleat and when held, a short bleat and then a faster bleat. Shut down sounds sound like steam but that "horn" is weird.

 

Thanks

Fred

I've never heard anything like that, that's most certainly odd!

There weren't many RS 2.5 steam.  I went to Lionel's Part site and typed in Railsounds 2.5

 

The N&W Warhorse J comes up as one that used that frame and the S12 chip.  Can't make out the other chip.  But there is a WJ so maybe that is Warhorse J.  Part number is 6918049T40.

 

You can ask Lionel.

 

Possibly the horn clears up if installed in a tender, or maybe that is what it sounded like.  Or maybe a faulty component is distorting the sound.   G

Yes that is most definably  the 18049 Norfolk and Western Warhorse 'J'.

At the time, Lionel touted they recorded the actual 611. So that is what the real whistle sounds like. Deep like a steamship whistle.

I can't imagine the tender changing the sound that much!   My personal opinion is something is amiss there.

 

Chuck, I'm stunned, that is one ugly sound.  Glad I don't have that sound set.

 

You would be surprised then.  Notice how the speaker is bouncing on the table.:-)

What surprised me is how the late SOS board is picking up motor speed from the field connection.  Heck new $1200 locos still use cherry switches for chuff:-)  G

Thanks guys. Mystery solved. Checked out one on YouTube. Chuck is correct. Sounds just like it. My final question on the SOS board. As I interpret the wiring diagram, Ac pullmor motor only? Thanks Fred

Good question, I think the answer will be yes.   The other versions with DC motors used a contact on the smoke unit to pulse the chuff.  BUT didn't you say you got it to chuff by grounding it?  G

You are correct, AC motor only or the whistle will blow continually.

You guys have correctly figured it out, but I'll confirm. WJ_03 is indeed the warhorse J rom. It is the authentic "steamboat" whistle from the NW611 J that I recorded with my colleagues back in the mid-ninties. The sound in the video is really distorted, the speaker and enclosure/tender can and do make a hugh difference in the final sound presentation. I suggest a better quality speaker and see if that cleans it up. 

cheers,

Rudy

 

Glad to find out what we're hearing isn't the real sound quality.

 

Yes that tender shell can make a big difference with sound presentation:-)  G

Where did you wire the SOS board?  If you wire it on the other end of the diode string, maybe it'll be closer to the result you desire.

Hi John, The board is wired per the diagram. To the field lug on the motor. Are you saying it should be before the diode string? It will get more voltage than the motor. That might work. I will try it. Thanks Fred

It may or may not work, but it's easy to try, and it'll get more voltage there.

Hi John, I tried it and it worked. But I am not so sure what benefit the voltage dropper is actually giving me. For comparison I put one in my 1970's O-4-0 switcher. I have two with fairly matched performance. Both have been completely tuned up in the last 3 month including motor rebuilds. I have been using them as a tandem MU. And adding the SOS improves the effect even though it is primitive technology. But so are the switchers. While doing my side by side comparison I noticed that neither actually "jack rabbits" if I throttle smoothly. Both will start at a fairly slow crawl and can be slowed to a stop without the e-unit disengaging. And move out again in the original direction. No smoke units so no improvement in that area. In fact, the major difference is that the e-unit buzzes louder and longer on the modified unit. Additional testing indicated that even my Docksider which will launch itself if too quick on the throttle allows me to engage the e-unit and still have a small range of "idle" before actually moving forward. This is much smaller than the switcher but still there. I can see how this would improve smoke output at slower speeds but not sure if there is enough room in the docksider for the diodes strings. The 6 Amp ones are pretty big compared to most of the diodes i have seen used in trains. Just to experiment I am thinking of trying it in my Pioneer Dockside switcher. It has a two position e- unit that clearly qualifies as a "jackrabbit" I bought it for the same tender that you used for your TMCC Porter conversion. I gave the loco to my son but he complains that there is no "idle". Stop and you go backwards. So it takes a real quick direction change in order to move out if you do not lock it in forward. But I am sure that this engine will start at a lower voltage than the e-unit. It is an excellent runner and by far the fastest engine that I have ever seen. Also probably the cheapest ever made. Mostly plastic, no smoke, lights or whistle. I think it runs Ac or Dc. Mine shipped with an Ac transformer. Hopefully the voltage dropper will allow him enough of an "idle" to remain going in the same direction after stopping. FYI. Most of my locos are TMCC with the exception of a few Plymouths, Porters and small conventional switchers that I run on small loops as part of the scenery. It did not take me long to figure out that having K-line TMCC switchers make yard switching actually fun. Fred

Control problems with conventional is why I run command.

 

I don't think you need 6A diodes for most conventional engines, 3A is plenty, and for small motorized units, I'd use 1A diodes.

Probably fit better also. But I agree, command is the way to go, despite its quirks.