Smoke in conventional

Are u sure you have the smoke switch or potentiometer turn on. is it a MTH or lionell engine, I know both have a switch or control to make the engine smoke or not. some people like to turn the smoke off sometimes that's why there is usually a switch on the bottom of the engine!

Check and make sure your switch is turned on!

Good luck

Alan

what brand and what is the model number 0of your engine!

Try setting the TMCC ID, here's the procedure.

STEP 1: Move the switch on your locomotive from RUN to PROG.
STEP 2: Plug in your Command Base.
STEP 3: Place the locomotive on track, then turn on power to your track.
STEP 4: Press ENG then input the locomotive’s ID#. Press SET.
STEP 5: Press ENG, the ID#, AUX1, then press 8 for this particular locomotive.
STEP 6: Turn off power to your track and wait ten seconds.
STEP 7: Remove the locomotive from your track, and move the switch from PROG to RUN.
STEP 8: Place the locomotive back on track, then turn power on to the track.
STEP 9: Press ENG and the ID#, then operate as normal.

I conventional mode your track voltage is lower so sometime the basic fan driven smoke unit can be anemic in conventional.  Though this varies per unit.   G

I have the same engines. I agree with GGG. Zip on the smoke in conventional.......

Thanks for all the reply's I'll try the reset gunrunnerjohn but it seems that those instructions are for use in TMCC mode not conventional am I missing something?  will running the engine a little faster up the voltage to the fan?   GGG could a small capacitor be used to up the voltage dumped to the smoke unit?

thanks again for the replys

Westcelt

I don't think John saw that your unit worked in TMCC mode but not conventional.  You can always try the rest of the R2LC.  It may be possible the programming is glitched for conventional operations.

No to a capacitor, but you could rework with a regulator to make it a Constant Voltage unit for steady smoke regardless of voltage.

Yes to higher voltage, usually by adding freight cars to slow the engine down requiring more voltage for the same speed.

Also, doing the smoke unit mod from Lionel's website may help with smoke output overall making conventional work better.  G

Dropping the resistor to a 20 or 22 ohm resistor would probably help if the smoke unit is getting some voltage in conventional.

I've seen the TMCC reset fix conventional smoke, the reason I suggested it.

sort of like batting it up the side of the head?   The repairman tried that but I've got a reallllly smart 15yr old in the club now who probably knows TMCC a lot more.   I'll ask him.  I'm hopeing what you wrote about the Mopac smoke unit will be true about the 6-18587 Nickel plate road diesel also.   so the voltage in conventional mode isn't high enough to trigger the fan?  is that what we're saying. while in TMCC mode it somehow gets move juice from the getgo?

Westcelt

WestCelt, I had a similar experience with two Legacy engines I was running in conventional. It is easy to see if low voltage is the issue. Put the engine in 'neutral' and run the power up to 18 volts. Mine would smoke great at that setting, but you risk running a diecast loco through sheetrock at that power setting. I broke down and bought the Legacy transformer and handheld and all is well now since Legacy puts full voltage to the track at all times.

GGG and gunner have probably forgotten more than i'll ever know but this little test doesn't cost anything and is easy, so give it a whirl. Good luck.

No not power to fan which only needs 5VDC which it gets from a regulator, rather voltage to the smoke element.  Not enough current flows to generate enough heat at lower voltages.  V=IR.  G

OK, I ran the engine for a bit and noticed that some times when I would suddenly give it a quick start with a lot of omph that a puff of smoke would issue forth and that running it this way with little bursts of speed would result in some smoke, so it seems that under TMCC the engine is getting more "juice" then under conventional.   and the smoke is working in conventional just not very well.

one more thing GGG, there is a regulator on the fan but not on the regulator so adding a regulator for about ooohhh say 10 Volts to the smoke unit would give it the omph that it gets when its in TMCC?   What would the regulator do when running it with TMCC? burn it up?

I think you misunderstand how a regulator might work.  In order to use a regulator, you'd really need a lower value resistor so it has some "headroom" to work with.  The fan runs at a constant 5VDC regardless of the input voltage.

The main advantage of an early TMCC smoke function is the ability to turn it on and off via the remote.  Lionel design of smoke is a little lacking hence the variations as time went on.  MTH hit a home run right off the bat with PS-1 smoke, and patent their PS-2 version which is similar.

Lionel struggles with a single element to optimize it for conventional operation with a varying track voltage and load, against a Command environment with constant 18VAC on the track.  Unfortunately the R2LC programming/hardware choices do not allow the system to respond properly depending on the voltage.

MTH Command engines on the other hand do, and smoke just as well at 11V as 18V.

So, you could convert to a constant voltage type smoke unit, or install and MTH PS-1 unit that handle voltage changes.  Run the track power via a switch and the R2LC but use it to control a relay to turn on and off the power to a smoke unit.

Later Lionel went with a ACREG that controls smoke and uses a lower element resistance.  This lessens any conventional operation issue.  The ACREG is $30 and you change the element to 6 or 8 ohm depending on the ACREG picked.  This would give you what you want.  Or do the MTH one with relay.

You either optimize it for conventional and risk over heating in command, or leave it be for command and live with the poor conventional.  You could drop the heat element resistance to say 20-24 ohm and gain some conventional improvement.  G

Gunrunner your right I don't understand a lot about electronics and stuff wish I knew more.   GGG, are you saying I can put a PS1 or PS2 smoke unit in a TMCC train??? that sounds neat and it would work better?   I don't understand the electronics but it sounds like magic.

PS-1 yes.  Need to remember it has to fit mechanically too.  So it is not plug and play.  G

In tmcc mode with the track voltage at 18v your smoke unit is receiving approximately 10v. In conventional mode with track voltage at 10v your smoke unit should be approximately 9v. In conventional mode the smoke unit voltage will increase to as much as 12v as the track voltage is increased, but to get that voltage to smoke unit you would probably be picking the engine up off the floor. I would modify the smoke unit according to Lionel video . If the 6-18587 is the correct number, it was also from 2001.

Bill  

If we assume 10 volts in TMCC mode with 27 ohms of resistance, the power is 3.7 watts to the resistor.  If we'd like 4 watts of dissipation in a 6 ohm resistor, we'd need 4.8 volts across it.

Use something like this power module with a bridge rectifier in front of it, power it from the smoke output.  Change the resistor to an 6 ohm one and set the output voltage to 4.5 to 5.0V. output.  You'll get constant smoke output from around 7 volts on the smoke output and greater.

ebay 181409861491  92 cents, free shipping