They are also doing the Norfolk & Western in the same number for the visita dome car.  Not exactly like the real Vista dome car when it was in the Southern Roadname but somewhat close.  Expensive with a camera.  

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Lionlman is correct in the below post  I posted the wrong real Southern Visita Dome car above.  Thanks for pointing that out.  

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So, I just received the new mountain.  Some observations:

1) Looks like Lionel used the same mold as the 2005/06 release.  They have added whistle steam, added functioning cab hatches, and drastically improved the coupling distance between the tender and cab.  

2) The color seems a little lighter than the 2005/06.  See the last pic.  The bottom unit is the earlier unit.  Not enough to complain about.  Looks good.  

3) I love the white walled tires.  Great touch.  

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What is the difference between a model railroader's wife and a widow?  There is no difference.  Both know exactly where their husbands are at all times.

 

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” ~ Philippians 4:13

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lionel89 posted:

So, I just received the new mountain.  Some observations:

1) Looks like Lionel used the same mold as the 2005/06 release.  They have added whistle steam, added functioning cab hatches, and drastically improved the coupling distance between the tender and cab.  

2) The color seems a little lighter than the 2005/06.  See the last pic.  The bottom unit is the earlier unit.  Not enough to complain about.  Looks good.  

3) I love the white walled tires.  Great touch.  

IMG_1660

 IMG_1661

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 Nice photos and thanks for sharing - Out of curiosity, how does the color of the newest issue match up again the Legacy PS4 4-6-2 from 5-6 years ago?

Mine hasn’t come in to my LHS just yet. 

M. J. Breen

 

TCA 15-71060

LCCA 40229

 

"May the Schwartz be with you" 

The PS is a little darker.  Again, not enough to complain about.  See pic below. 

A5DCEB25-F1AB-404E-82AA-00F9461654E6

What is the difference between a model railroader's wife and a widow?  There is no difference.  Both know exactly where their husbands are at all times.

 

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” ~ Philippians 4:13

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Thanks, guys.  You can find the thread I did on the rebuild, if you want to see a play-by-play.  The cab is largely new, as is the stack, pilot, smokebox front, and virtually all details, the cylinders were lowered, running boards moved, and the tender shell is from the Lionel mogul.   Now it looks like the sort of modernized power found on a lot of shortlines right to the end of steam.  BTW, it's very similar Southern 154 on Three Rivers Rambler in TN.

Hey Neal.  Are they two different colors?  

What is the difference between a model railroader's wife and a widow?  There is no difference.  Both know exactly where their husbands are at all times.

 

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” ~ Philippians 4:13

Don:

The RPO does not have a detailed interior.   The baggage car has marker lights on each end of the car.  They are controlled by a switch underneath the car.  If the baggage car is on the rear of the train you can turn the marker lights on for either end of the car or just leave them off if they are on the head end of the train.

Neal Jeter

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Lionlman posted:

Don:

The RPO does not have a detailed interior.   The baggage car has marker lights on each end of the car.  They are controlled by a switch underneath the car.  If the baggage car is on the rear of the train you can turn the marker lights on for either end of the car or just leave them off if they are on the head end of the train.

Neal Jeter

Thank you for the response.  That is disappointing!

Don

Tom Morris posted:

Hi Ron,

The Little Choo Choo Shop was closed due to a power outage. The Lionel number is 6-29257.

Tom

 

The Lionel version, as you already have, is not accurate for the car. Try to find MTH 30-74950. Legacy Station still has in stock, not sure about the Choo Choo Shop.

Larry Neal TCA, LCCA Fan of the ACL, SAL, SOU, Clinchfield

kjstrains posted:

They are also doing the Norfolk & Western in the same number for the visita dome car.  Not exactly like the real Vista dome car when it was in the Southern Roadname but somewhat close.  Expensive with a camera.  

IMG_0640IMG_0641

Lionlman is correct in the below post  I posted the wrong real Southern Visita Dome car above.  Thanks for pointing that out.  

MTH made the 1602 as well in their 20-65149 set, which is hard to find today.

Larry Neal TCA, LCCA Fan of the ACL, SAL, SOU, Clinchfield

I found some information online that K4's and GG1's pulled Southern Crescent Limited from Washington DC to New York.  I assume that K4's pulled the Crescent Limited during it's existence?  Then I assume from what I read that both K4's and GG1's pulled the train when it was later renamed the Southern Crescent in the later 1930's - 1940's.  

If I were to model this, which GG1 would you recommend I use?  I know their several paint schemes for the GG1 but I was not sure which one would be the right one per say.  I assume going with the GG1 with the Brunswick green paint with 5 pinstripes but I know there is another paint scheme with one stripe.

This is probably opinionated question, but what manfacture would you go with for the GG1 along with Southern Passanger cars?  Would you choose MTH's GG1 or Lionel's VisionLine GG1?  

kjstrains posted:

I found some information online that K4's and GG1's pulled Southern Crescent Limited from Washington DC to New York.  I assume that K4's pulled the Crescent Limited during it's existence?  Then I assume from what I read that both K4's and GG1's pulled the train when it was later renamed the Southern Crescent in the later 1930's - 1940's.  

If I were to model this, which GG1 would you recommend I use?  I know their several paint schemes for the GG1 but I was not sure which one would be the right one per say.  I assume going with the GG1 with the Brunswick green paint with 5 pinstripes but I know there is another paint scheme with one stripe.

This is probably opinionated question, but what manfacture would you go with for the GG1 along with Southern Passanger cars?  Would you choose MTH's GG1 or Lionel's VisionLine GG1?  

The GG1's were green until starting January,1952.  Also the 8-inch single yellow stripe started in 1955.  So it would be a green five stripe for sure.

But the one real difference is that in 1941 the lettering was changed to PRR's standard "Clarendon" font from the original San-serif Futura.

Ron

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe the PRR only pulled through sleepers of the Crescent ( the Limited name was relatively short lived from the mid 1920's to the mid 1930's) on to New York.  The train was not pulled as a whole with just an engine swap.

The Southern Crescent was also a relative late (late 1960s?) name as a combined Southerner and Crescent took an all Southern route to New Orleans, earlier on the Crescent was handled by Atlanta and West Point/Western of Alabama south of Atlanta.

VERY early, before the PRR electrification would steam have pulled through cars.  After the electrification, it would have had to been a big emergency to have electric power totally unavailable, maybe WWII traffic surges - maybe.

Gray Lackey

NHVRYGray posted:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe the PRR only pulled through sleepers of the Crescent ( the Limited name was relatively short lived from the mid 1920's to the mid 1930's) on to New York.  The train was not pulled as a whole with just an engine swap.

The Southern Crescent was also a relative late (late 1960s?) name as a combined Southerner and Crescent took an all Southern route to New Orleans, earlier on the Crescent was handled by Atlanta and West Point/Western of Alabama south of Atlanta.

VERY early, before the PRR electrification would steam have pulled through cars.  After the electrification, it would have had to been a big emergency to have electric power totally unavailable, maybe WWII traffic surges - maybe.

Gray Lackey

The PRR would have pulled through sleepers for several Southern, ACL and SAL from Washington to NY. Through sleepers were found on several trains from the Southern - Crescent, Royal Palm, Southerner, to name a few. 

You are correct on the Southern Crescent, with the line change happening after AMTRAK forming in 1971 to keep it all in Southern tracks.

After electrification, some diesels did pull trains under the wires, since I have seen ACL E-unit photos, but not sure if Southern Es ever headed north of DC. There were instances the catenary went out, causing the GG1s to quit running. 

 

Larry Neal TCA, LCCA Fan of the ACL, SAL, SOU, Clinchfield

Here is a link that describes the Crescent from beginning to end.

http://southern.railfan.net/crescent/cover.html

Here is a link describing the Crescent in 1950 with the consist of the new Stainless Steel, streamlined cars( "The Grand New Train with the Grand Old Name.")

http://streamlinerschedules.co.../crescent195008.html

As for which version of the GG1 to use? Usually, the Tuscan Red was used for passenger service, to match the passenger cars, while DGLE (aka Brunswick Green) was used for freight service.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Tom Morris posted:

Here is a link that describes the Crescent from beginning to end.

http://southern.railfan.net/crescent/cover.html

Here is a link describing the Crescent in 1950 with the consist of the new Stainless Steel, streamlined cars( "The Grand New Train with the Grand Old Name.")

http://streamlinerschedules.co.../crescent195008.html

As for which version of the GG1 to use? Usually, the Tuscan Red was used for passenger service, to match the passenger cars, while DGLE (aka Brunswick Green) was used for freight service.

Hope this helps.

 

GG1's were NOT painted Tuscan Red until starting January, 1952.  Before that ALL GG!'s were painted DGLE.  But the lettering font was changed to PRR's Standard "Clarendon" in 1941 from San-serif-Futura!!!!!!!!

EDIT:

Oh yes.  In January 1952 Motors 4908 through 4913 were repainted "Red" with 5-Gold stripes to pull the "Senator" and "Congressional" with their respective Budd built cars.  Then in the period of 1952/1953 Motors 4856, 4857 and 4929 were also repainted "Red."  Then after the DC Union Station crash of Motor 4876 it was also painted "Red' when put back together.

Ron

So to clarify,  I assume the K4 pulled the Crescent Limited Pullman Green Heavyweight Passanger cars and later 2 tone Green Passanger cars from Washington DC to New York between 1925 -1934.  Since the service of Pennsylvania GG1's started in 1934, the GG1's pulled the train between Washington DC and New York when it was named the Crescent in 1938.  I assume the Crecent train Passenger cars had the name Southern on them and were the Pullman Green color?  From what I read, shining stainless steel Passanger cars were not delivered by Pullman until 1949.  

KJSTRAINS,

So, here is what I know. Could a K4 pulled the Crescent Limited between 1925-1934? Answer is yes, but not all the way to Penn Station because of the Kaufman Act. The Kaufman Act banned steam locomotives from Manhattan after June 30, 1908. More than likely, an electric locomotive on the PRR would have pulled the Crescent. However, Railroads have/had “Standard Operating Procedures” (SOP). One of the first procedures is to keep the trains running. That’s why we find unusual pictures of freight locomotives pulling passenger trains, mix-match passenger cars, or other “oddities.”

As for passenger cars, from 1935-1949, the railroads were dealing with the Great Depression and WW2. For the Southern, heavyweight passenger cars were Pullman green. After 1946, the script used change from Roman to Gothic (Blocked) except for the business cars, they remained in Roman. L&N, and The West Point passenger cars were in Pullman green as well. They both changed to a shade of blue in the 50’s. I believe that PRR were Tuscan (hopefully PRRRONBH can confirm). Stainless steel cars started showing up on the Southern in 1941, for the Southerner and the Tennessean. In 1946, the 5 participating railroads reached an agreement to re-equip the Crescent. Eight different car types were use: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, 2 chair car configurations, dining car, 2 sleeper configurations, and a boat-tail sleeper-lounge observation car. Three different car-builders were used: Budd supplied the coaches and dining cars, Pullman-Standard the baggage-RPO, sleepers, and observation cars, and ACF the baggage-dormitories. Because of the high demand, it took the car builders 3+ years to fill this order.

In 1961 and for several years later, once monthly while working on a project at our NYC office, my company here in Greensboro booked me in a bedroom on the SRR's Piedmont Limited on Sunday night at 8:30 for NYC, returning to Greensboro on the Peach Queen at 6:30 p.m. on Friday night. Sleeping overnight on the train was a great way to commute to NYC and back, especially during winter weather. I would arrive at Penn Station about 7:00 a.m Monday, walk across the street and check into the Statler Hilton (former Pennsylvania Hotel) then walk up to our office at Broadway and 4Oth St.

When leaving Greensboro I would eat a "tote" snack, read a couple of reports, go to bed and most always be awakened by the "bump" when the car was changed over to Pennsy power in D.C.  Of course, this was the era of diesel and electric power for the "name trains" out of the South to D.C. and NYC.

My memory is now obsolete but I agree with Tom's analysis above. I do recall from Burke Davis's Southern Railway history when in 1939-40 Morgan Trust finally freed up funds for Southern( who was still in receivership and near bankruptcy). Funds to purchase the E6s and the stainless"silver cars" for delivery in March 1941( the Southerner), in May (the Tennessean) and finally in December (the Crescent). Of course all shipments ceased upon the entry of the USA into WWII in December '41 and, as Tom mentioned delivery of new rail cars post-war was very slow . The deliveries for the "Silver Trains"( also promoted as "Streamliners" in ads) when delivered in 1941, did not include sleepers so Southern painted some upfitted heavyweights silver for use in the  consists.

 

A&Y RY[NC's Southern/N&W connector].

The full Northeast Corridor electrification was completed and put into operation on February 10, 1935, which also brought the GG1 into full revenue service. The line from New York to Washington had begun electrification starting in 1905, both by the Pennsy and New Haven. I doubt K-4 Pacifics ran over the whole length before 1935 since sections, starting in New York, were progressively electrified through the 1910s and 20s. Both the Pennsy and New Haven operated electric locomotives over the completed sections rather than steam. 

The only way to know for sure would be consists of Pennsy trains between NY and Washington, of which several were printed by Wayner over the years. I have some of his books, and can see what is shown if anyone is interested. One I have spans the 1920s through the 1940s. 

Larry Neal TCA, LCCA Fan of the ACL, SAL, SOU, Clinchfield

Tom Morris posted:

KJSTRAINS,

So, here is what I know. Could a K4 pulled the Crescent Limited between 1925-1934? Answer is yes, but not all the way to Penn Station because of the Kaufman Act. The Kaufman Act banned steam locomotives from Manhattan after June 30, 1908. More than likely, an electric locomotive on the PRR would have pulled the Crescent. However, Railroads have/had “Standard Operating Procedures” (SOP). One of the first procedures is to keep the trains running. That’s why we find unusual pictures of freight locomotives pulling passenger trains, mix-match passenger cars, or other “oddities.”

As for passenger cars, from 1935-1949, the railroads were dealing with the Great Depression and WW2. For the Southern, heavyweight passenger cars were Pullman green. After 1946, the script used change from Roman to Gothic (Blocked) except for the business cars, they remained in Roman. L&N, and The West Point passenger cars were in Pullman green as well. They both changed to a shade of blue in the 50’s. I believe that PRR were Tuscan (hopefully PRRRONBH can confirm). Stainless steel cars started showing up on the Southern in 1941, for the Southerner and the Tennessean. In 1946, the 5 participating railroads reached an agreement to re-equip the Crescent. Eight different car types were use: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, 2 chair car configurations, dining car, 2 sleeper configurations, and a boat-tail sleeper-lounge observation car. Three different car-builders were used: Budd supplied the coaches and dining cars, Pullman-Standard the baggage-RPO, sleepers, and observation cars, and ACF the baggage-dormitories. Because of the high demand, it took the car builders 3+ years to fill this order.

Thanks, Tom for the information!  I could not find much information about the K4 pulling the Crescent Limited so your information is helpful.  As well as knowing when the Southern started having stainless steel Passanger cars.  

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