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Mine arrived today, fantastic service from CharlieNassau when you consider I ordered it Thursday noon.

 

It comes in a small box, which makes sense, because it is a small loco, noticeable smaller, if heavier (36 vs 23 ounces) than a BEEP.  It feels heavy and solid, has crisp casting details, good paint and excellent, sharp lettering and graphics.  The railings, etc are very delicate.  All of them are loose where they show attach to the cab.  They were that way out of the box.    They are not bent so if left undisturbed they stay in the right place, but . . . I have to be carefully handling it.  

 

It runs well but like most WBB diesels like to go a bit faster than I want.  I'm fairly certain its two motors are wired in parallel and will convert them to series in time.  It runs smoothly, the e-unit functions easily and well.  The horn sounds like a horn - a very generic horm, but a horn, and the bell just like the bell on dozens of other locos.  It has directional lights of a sort - they come on when it moves.  Nice, single figure in the cab.

 

It does have WBB's diesel sounds - the first loco I've bought with it, but it is impossible to hear the engine noise if makes  over the normal wheel noise when the thing is running.  There is not much sound.  If there is a volume adjustment I can't find it.  When stationary, the idle  sounds like a small (for a loco) diesel engine.idling, which is probably as it should be.  

 

It pulled ten 70 ton ore cars around my all 36-inch loop just fine, with no problems, a bit faster than I want, but smoothly.  

 

I think it is fairly priced at what I paid for it - around $250 or so, I think) and its a cute little thing.  I do wish it had cruise and smoke, but then it would cost a lot more.  I like it, and after converting the motors to series, expect to run it a lot.

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Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

Mine arrived today, fantastic service from CharlieNassau when you consider I ordered it Thursday noon.

 

It comes in a small box, which makes sense, because it is a small loco, noticeable smaller, if heavier (36 vs 23 ounces) than a BEEP.  It feels heavy and solid, has crisp casting details, good paint and excellent, sharp lettering and graphics.  The railings, etc are very delicate.  All of them are loose where they show attach to the cab.  They were that way out of the box.    They are not bent so if left undisturbed they stay in the right place, but . . . I have to be carefully handling it.  

 

It runs well but like most WBB diesels like to go a bit faster than I want.  I'm fairly certain its two motors are wired in parallel and will convert them to series in time.  It runs smoothly, the e-unit functions easily and well.  The horn sounds like a horn - a very generic horm, but a horn, and the bell just like the bell on dozens of other locos.  It has directional lights of a sort - they come on when it moves.  Nice, single figure in the cab.

 

It does have WBB's diesel sounds - the first loco I've bought with it, but it is impossible to hear the engine noise if makes  over the normal wheel noise when the thing is running.  There is not much sound.  If there is a volume adjustment I can't find it.  When stationary, the idle  sounds like a small (for a loco) diesel engine.idling, which is probably as it should be.  

 

It pulled ten 70 ton ore cars around my all 36-inch loop just fine, with no problems, a bit faster than I want, but smoothly.  

 

I think it is fairly priced at what I paid for it - around $250 or so, I think) and its a cute little thing.  I do wish it had cruise and smoke, but then it would cost a lot more.  I like it, and after converting the motors to series, expect to run it a lot.

DSCN2351

 

DSCN2357

DSCN2356

Lee what does wiring the motors in series do to the performance of the locomotive? Can I do it to my Williams GP-7? Can you show me a diagram?

Originally Posted by gandydancer1950:

Lee what does wiring the motors in series do to the performance of the locomotive? Can I do it to my Williams GP-7? Can you show me a diagram?

Not lee.......

Rewiring in series makes the loco run slower due to increase power requirement.

Use search there is a number of threads showing exactly how it is done. A few on mine have been rewired.......but the biggest problem I had was with K-Line F units.....slowed them pretty well....

I've wired 4 of my Williams locos in series and they do run much slower.  I'm very happy with the results.  The sound seems a little louder on my RS3 as it now creeps along at 8 to 9 volts with a set of Williams passenger cars.  Maybe it just sounds louder because there is less track noise at the slower speed.

Originally Posted by Norton:

Lee, can you tell if the motors are in the trucks or above them under the hood? I am wondering if this is a candidate for a Command upgrade.

 

Pete

Pete, I'm not sure why it won't work with TMCC if it has truck mounted motors but I just installed the new cruise lite in my Bethlehem Steel NW-2 switcher with truck motors and it runs good. What I don't like about this WBB switcher is the couplers are Like nothing I've seen and can't picture an EC being compatible.

Last edited by NYC Z-MAN

Sounds fairly OK - but the poor low-speed performance is a disappointment; maybe

the WBB 4-6-0 will be the only WBB loco properly geared. Sigh...this loco should really have been a creeper, if any should be.

 

But, it will get better with age and run-in, series wiring will help (but we -shouldn't- have to do this), and an ERR Cruise Commander, if there is room, will probably make it a very nice piece.

 

My Southern unit is in the mail, I'm told.

 

Now I'm really getting curious about the die-cast MTH version. 

Originally Posted by Chris Lonero:
Originally Posted by DMASSO:
Motors are in the trucks.

I'm kind of surprised they are truck mount motors. If there are no flywheels which would really be surprising then I guess you couldn't upgrade to PS-2 or 3?  

 

Not sure why you'd upgrade the WBB version instead of just buying the MTH version

Originally Posted by D500:

Sounds fairly OK - but the poor low-speed performance is a disappointment; maybe

the WBB 4-6-0 will be the only WBB loco properly geared. Sigh...this loco should really have been a creeper, if any should be.

 

But, it will get better with age and run-in, series wiring will help (but we -shouldn't- have to do this), and an ERR Cruise Commander, if there is room, will probably make it a very nice piece.

 

My Southern unit is in the mail, I'm told.

 

Now I'm really getting curious about the die-cast MTH version. 

 

I'm sure  how big the Cruise Commander board is but there may or may not be room under the hood with truck mounted motors. 

Last edited by Chris Lonero

Chris -

 

Yeah, I'm not sure about the space, either - but it would surprise me if it could not be done, and I'm very familiar with ERR boards, so... There are boards in there already, of course, and they will be tossed.

 

The truck-mounted motors give me real hope, and the WBB boards will be gone anyway, so probably. I doubt that sound will be possible; that's OK, but I do hope that the truck mounts are the "standard" type (that is, typical lionel/MTH/etc) so that Electrocouplers are do-able.

 

Oh great - another project.

Originally Posted by Happy Pappy:

Chris or Lee,

I'd like to have one, however, I cannot run trains anymore. My question is this. Does the last Lionel model have good detail? I want one that can be my,"Shelf Queen"with a boxcar and caboose. Just asking and hoping for an answer. I'm not hy-jacking this thread.

 

Honestly Pappy not really.  The old Lionel version and the Williams version which was a knock off of Lionel's didn't have much detail and were too long. I called them limo switchers!  I would go for the new scale version from Williams Like Lee just bought.  Even if you don't run it it would make a very nice looking shelf queen! 

Last edited by Chris Lonero

I'm with Chris, I won't buy one unless it's a B&M or MEC in the black, red, and white colors.  I have no interest in the later blue paint job either.  I've got nearly all the locos I need.  I'm going to be fussy about what I'll buy from now on.  It's too bad Bachmann hasn't offered the wide variety of roadnames that Williams once did.  Something for everyone.

Originally Posted by Chris Lonero:

Honestly Pappy not really.  The old Lionel version and the Williams version which was a knock off of Lionel's didn't have much detail and were too long. I called them limo switchers!  I would go for the new scale version from Williams Like Lee just bought.  Even if you don't run it it would make a very nice looking shelf queen! 

I appreciate the response, Chris & Don, Thank you! It's not tinplate so my children won't notice. I ordered some track from, Sidetrack Hobbies. Enough for a 4' X 8' std gauge loop. Darn if they didn't hide it? I had the locks changed on my trainroom last week.

Originally Posted by SJC:
Originally Posted by Chris Lonero:
Originally Posted by DMASSO:
Motors are in the trucks.

I'm kind of surprised they are truck mount motors. If there are no flywheels which would really be surprising then I guess you couldn't upgrade to PS-2 or 3?  

 

Not sure why you'd upgrade the WBB version instead of just buying the MTH version

 

Because the WBB one has fixed pilots, whereas MTH's version does not. 

From the drawings, it looks like each motor only drives a single axle, leaving the other axle in each truck as an unpowered idler (since the pickup rollers occupy the space where the gear on the second axle could have been), is this correct? Also, how does this loco perform over turnouts? I have a Beep that stalls on turnouts unless it is going fast enough to coast through with a noticeable lurch from the momentary loss of power.

 

Bill in FtL

Originally Posted by Bill Nielsen:

From the drawings, it looks like each motor only drives a single axle, leaving the other axle in each truck as an unpowered idler (since the pickup rollers occupy the space where the gear on the second axle could have been), is this correct? Also, how does this loco perform over turnouts? I have a Beep that stalls on turnouts unless it is going fast enough to coast through with a noticeable lurch from the momentary loss of power.

 

Bill in FtL

Only the innermost axle on both ends is powered.  The outer two axles are idlers.

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

Just got mine, it manages to pull the five Phantom passenger cars around an O72 loop, so it's certainly good enough for switching duties.  It looks like electrocouplers will be a challenge, the only way I see them working is with additional projection.  I'll have to find the shortest ones possible for this upgrade.

 

Be interested in the upgrade with electro couplers, if possible. This is one engine I could really welcome on my layout. In fact several engines.

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