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Now, this is not a slam against OGR or folks in general. This thought has been on my mind for some time now when I look on the OGR Forum and that is why are there so many forum sub-categories?

 

On any given day, there are loads of topics on the "High Rail, 027 and Traditional 0" forum that really belong in the scale forum. The MTH Heritiage Interstate engine thread, the many vision line Big Boy engine threads, the Intermodal thread, the typical command threads, the Scale Trax thread and the lists goes on.

 

I didn't realize Weaver finally wise-uped and is starting to make semi-scale 027 products until I read the post and realized here's yet another thread that belongs in the 3-rail scale forum... I'm being funny to make a point.

 

Now I suppose the term "High Rail" could include scale items, but it certainly includes 027 and tradtional 0. Frank53's layout is a masterpiece of what can be done with tradtional 027/0 trains in a realistic setting. That's a train layout! Who needs sound and command???

 

Jabbat, Paul Serrows, Christopher Espito's layout (sorry if name spellings are wrong) are also very worthy. To me, 027 track is just as realistic as MTH Scale Track if additional ties are added and with ballast. But to each his own.

 

If you look at the posting counts, there's not even a thousand topics on the 3-Rail scale forum, meanwhile there are going on 24,000 threads on the High Rail, 027, Tradtional 0 forum. Gosh, if the manufacturers looked at those numbers alone, they would immediately axe all scale product production and put some real effort into the silent majority end of the hobby: The tradtional 0/027 market.

 

If those who grumble about their pet scale product not being made, I would think they'd want to post that on the 3-rail scale forum, just to let the manufacturers know there is a solid market here. Less than 900 threads says there isn't much interest in the scale market, or the folks who are interested in the scale market don't know how to read, or are just lazy, or are afraid no one will see or read their posts? Maybe as the numbers show, the real majority of the market is tradtional, 027, non-scale, even if the actual postings in that forum don't relfect the truth.

 

Not to mention whatever additional costs and maintenance time may (or may not) result from having additional forums, especially since it seems many of them are not really properly utilized by those who post threads.

 

This is not a criticism... but I can't help but wonder about it. The scale audience of the market grumbles more about stuff that any other segment. Manufactuers and retailers have told me the same thing. It would seem to me, the best way to draw attention to their actually being a strong 3-rail scale market, is to support that sub-category of the forum.

Last edited by brianel_k-lineguy
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I think the "3 rail scale thread" pertains more to things like scale couplers and realistc weathering etc, than "scale" locomotives etc.

 

Its more about what you do to a product once its out of the box to make it more like the prototpye.

 

Legacy VL and MTH premier products are all "scale"  3 rail items, but in their "mass produced state" don't fit the bill on the 3 rail scale forum.

 

The highrail etc etc forum is more or less the "anything goes" forum. That way the 3 rail scale folks can focus on topics unique to "3 rail scale" modelling.

 

There is room for all of us here, just a matter of respecting each others preferences/ tastes. The end goal is the same.

Last edited by RickO

No Marty. Every so often you see requests for more or new forum sub-categories, and I sometimes wonder why. The clear vast majority of new threads get posted in the High Rail, 027, Traditional 0 forum, even if the actual postings have nothing to do with that particular sub-category.

 

Like when I see a thread about passenger cars on the High Rail, 027, Traditional 0 forum, I immediate assume (hope) that it will be about the tradtional 027 Lionel passenger cars, or the Williams counterparts, or the K-Line/RMT semi-scale 13 inch versions. BUT usually it is not. So then I think, well if this is really about SCALE passenger cars, why isn't this in the 3-rail scale forum???

 

When I see a thread about wishing for a new locomotive to be made, yeah, there are some I'd love to see made. I'd love to see a modern Dash type locomotive made by Lionel with a 13-14 inch lenght that does not tower in height above 027 cars... kind of a modern equal to the postwar 027 Alco FA. If I were to say that on any of those threads, the reponse would be "we're talking about scale proportioned prouducts." Okay, no problem with that. But why isn't it in the 3-rail scale forum then?

 

Again, unless you read the term High Rail as being all-inclusive. Historically the term high rail came about a long time before there were ever scale products being offered as they are today - when the product selection was either traditional 0 or 027.

 

Again, just thinking out loud. Nothing against the scale makret. I'd just think if I were a scale 3-rail modelers, I'd want to support that forum devoted to that part of the hobby. Which might even help send a partial signal to the train companies.

 

 

Last edited by brianel_k-lineguy

If you read the posts in the 3rs forum, you willl see the topics are about making things more prototypical.  Fixing pilots, installing MU hoses, putting kadees, weathering, lowering, relocating horns.  The discussions are not about whether stuff is 1:48 of not.  Its implied that you wouldn't want to do all those modifications on something that wasn't scale in the first place.  (What would be the point?)

Hmmm.  You catch it every time I stick my foot in my mouth.
 
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:

When you see a thread that is not posted in the right forum, let us know about it!

 

I see less than 1% of what is posted on this forum, and most of that is either here on in the Real Trains forum. Use the Alert Icon ( ) at the bottom right of every post to automatically send us a message about any thread you think is in the wrong forum.

 

My opinion: 

 

The "3-Rail Scale" (3RS) thing has little meaning to the majority of 3-rail hobbyists, and hasn't even been defined simply and clearly by those who initiated the term.  It is, after all, a term that was "invented" by participants on this forum and which really has no relevance outside this relatively small community.  It is, in effect, a teeny niche within a tiny niche within a small niche, etc.

 

The hobby pretty understands 3-rail, 2-Rail, and Hi-Rail, and the vast majority of O gauge/scale enthusiasts fit rather easily into one of those primary categories.  Attempts to create something new, no matter how well intended, were not likely to develop a large following.  If any sub-area deserves a separate sub-forum of its own, that likely would be Hi-Rail since that area of modeling extends well beyond the trains themselves.

Last edited by Allan Miller

There is room for all of us here, just a matter of respecting each others preferences/ tastes. The end goal is the same.

 

Rick, your last sentence is the truth and I have long felt that way. The 3-rail hobby is a diverse fragmented market that CANNOT survive without all of us.

 

But the product runs are still small for all scale products. When Lionel finished the K-Line Dash-type locomotive that K-Line had offered for the KCC, Lionel said the total run was around 3,000 pieces - an exceptionally large production run for a scale product.

 

The other comment that goes against your last sentence (which also comes up a lot) is how all lower end starter products are junk. I'm sorry, but given all the complaints I have read about high end scale products not working, I have NEVER ONCE had to return no one single starter set or lower end locomotive for anything. Even made overseas. It's not junk. It does what it is suppose to do and works as advertised... that's not junk.

 

But I understand what you are saying. I can understand why scale modelers would want to use Kadee couplers. But I have read comments wishing that knuckle couplers would be completely dropped on the 027, Tradional Forum. I'm sorry, but NEVER. If Lionel were to do that, it'd be a sure fire forumla to immedately go out of business. Now, on the scale products alone, that might be another story.

 

 

Last edited by brianel_k-lineguy

Brian,

I think you're making a lot to do about nothing. 

You mentioned when you see passenger cars on the Hi Rail forum you assume they will be traditional 027 passenger cars, like Lionel postwar 2400 series of cars, If that is true, then where do Lionel O gauge aluminum passenger cars from the late 50's and 60's go? On the scale forum even thought they are not Scale?, yet they are not traditional 027.

The list of questionable items could go on for pages and pages.

I think the the moderators and ourselves do a pretty good job of placing in the right forum, if someone is off a bit, someone usually will suggest another forum better suited for their post. Is there some overlap, sure there is, is there anything wrong with that, not at all. 

As mentioned previously, 3R scale refers to more than just size. I think the Rich Melvins description What is 3-Rail Scale? sums it up quite well. As are all the topic headers.

What's traditional to you in 027 may not be traditional to others.

How about discussing a traditional Lionel 6024 Nabisco Box car, heck that box car is so small it should be on the "S" scale forum(I was trying to be sarcastic/humorous).

Hey, have fun, enjoy this great hobby!

 

For the same reason there are so many folders in a file cabinet drawer. It makes it much faster to find information that is relevant to your interest.

 

The one fact that you have overlooked here is Page Views. Unlike other forums this one does not show statistics for page views. The only indication you have here is if someone responds to a topic posted. This does not mean people are not reading it, or are not interested in it, just that they don’t respond to it.

 

The first few times I started posting here the response was limited. This caused the thought of well if no one is reading it why even bother to write it up. That’s when I noticed the view stats are not listed. It also made me wonder how many others may have had the same thought and just moved on, or do not post. That’s when it occurred to me the importance here to respond to the ones that are informative and useful to me. But that still leaves many that I will read that don’t get a response.

 

Including these statistics would be an opportunity for an improvement to this forum.  

 

Originally Posted by Allan Miller:

My opinion: 

 

The "3-Rail Scale" (3RS) thing has little meaning to the majority of 3-rail hobbyists, and hasn't even been defined simply and clearly by those who initiated the term.  It is, after all, a term that was "invented" by participants on this forum and which really has no relevance outside this relatively small community.  It is, in effect, a teeny niche within a tiny niche within a small niche, etc.

If that is truly the case, then why has MTH been offering the appropriate shims for mounting O Scale size Kadee couplers on their freight cars, plus offering many of their "retooled", or new,  diesel models with fixed pilots & full length hand rails and appropriate Kadee coupler mounting pads? If there wasn't a large enough market for us 3-Rail SCALE modelers, then MTH would NOT be offering these enhancements.

 

Just because YOU do not agree with the "3-Rail SCALE concept", does NOT mean it doesn't exist! 

 

quote:
For the same reason there are so many folders in a file cabinet drawer. It makes it much faster to find information that is relevant to your interest.



 

Only if the information is filed correctly.

When information is over compartmentalized, or compartmentalized in a way that is not easy to follow, then the information becomes very difficult to find.

 

I think the OGR folks are pretty good at hitting the right balance.

Last edited by C W Burfle

Before this topic goes WAY of course from what the OP intended, I'm going to close this thread.

 

We think we have a good mix of Forums and Sub-Forums here. Given the traffic levels here (6.5 to 7 MILLION pages per month now) and our member participation rate, I think most members think we've got it right. While we are always open to suggestions about new forums, I don't think a protracted discussion of the merits of each and every individual forum is warranted.

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