TIU software update

http://www.protosound2.com/service/loader235.htm

http://www.protosound2.com

Download and install the Loader Program 5.0, run it and click on the update TIU software icon. Then, just exactly follow the on-screen instructions.

Joe;

Thanks for the info but the instructions you referred me to seem to be missing something.

For example, I'm running Win Home Premium SP1 64 bit and I have only USB ports (both 2.0 and 3.0).

The TIU is Rev. L with software ver. 4.2 (at least that's what the remote shows).

When I plug in the USB cable to the PC, it fails during the install of device driver software (FT232R USB UART)!

That is, Windows is looking for a driver for that device and failed to find one.

So, where do I get a driver for the FT232R USB UART device?

Do you use a Rev. L TIU?

Do you use a USB A-B cable from the TIU to the PC's USB port?

If your answer to both these questions is YES -- then my question is how?

Ray

Barry;

I don't think its as simple as you make it out to be.

For example, the loader program complains about no serial ports available.

Also, did you see my remark about the failed device driver install for device FT232R USB UART?

Ray

Ray,

When I plug in the USB cable to the PC, it fails during the install of device driver software (FT232R USB UART)!

That's a Windows issue, not a problem any MTH documentation is going solve.

I don't think its as simple as you make it out to be.

Actually, as far as doing the update itself, it is just that simple. Your problem is with Windows, not the Loader Program. If Windows cannot find a USB port driver, you should be calling Microsoft.

Why are you attempting to load a USB driver in the first place? That's pretty basic stuff and should already be pre-installed as part of the Windows software. Since you aren't using a USB to Serial cable, there is no USB driver software required for a TIU other than the basic Windows USB driver.

Barry;

I understand what you're saying and the distinction you make between what is and is not a loader vs. Windows problem.

But just let me ask you this one simple question:

Have you ever tried exactly what I'm trying to do?

That is have you updated a ver. 4.2 TIU rev. L using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable?

Ray

Barry;

Why are you attempting to load a USB driver in the first place? That's pretty basic stuff and should already be pre-installed as part of the Windows software. Since you aren't using a USB to Serial cable, there is no USB driver software required for a TIU other than the basic Windows USB driver.

I think you're mistaken about the only requirement being "the basic Windows USB driver".

I have a plain vanilla install of Windows Home Premium Ver. 7 with SP 1 64bit and all my USB devices work without any additional driver installs!

I'd like to know if anyone with a plain windows install (without any such gadgets such as a USB to serial cable) has been able to use the TIU with a USB cable WITHOUT any additional driver installs.

I suspect the folks who have used a rev. L TIU with a USB cable without any additional driver installs have done so because they already had a suitable driver in their windows system AND it didn't come from Microsoft!

I suspect these folks are the same ones who have used things such as the USB to serial cables FIRST, and then have gone on to use a rev L TIU with a USB cable!

FWIW -- Ray

Hi RAYL,

Perhaps this could help your situation:

At our club, we have recently updated our members` TIU and Remote DCS to DCS 5.0.  Some were at DCS 4.2 and others at DCS 4.3 before the update.  Most TIUs were REV.L, but some were of prior versions.

I personally did many REV.L updates to DCS 5.0 using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable.  No other source of power on the TIU (i.e. no power on FIX1 IN, no power on AUX Power Input, just the USB cable.)

While moving from one TIU to the other during the update effort, I have seen situations where the PC would not recognized the next TIU without a full reboot. 

Based on what I have experienced, I would recommend the following:  make sure to completely shutdown your PC, restart it, wait for the start process to fully complete, and then plug the TIU in the USB without starting anything else (no even the DCS Loader).  I have seen cases where the process of USB detection took up to a minute, so be patient.  If you do not get error message, it will be time to start the MTH DCS Consumer Loader V5.0. 

Hope this helps.

Daniel

Daniel;

Thanks for your reply.

I have one question:

Do you know for sure of anyone who was successful using the USB cable on a Rev L TIU 

who DID NOT EVER have any kind of USB to serial adapter of any kind previously in their Windows system?

The reason I'm asking this question is because I think the USB cable connection to a TIU makes use of what is called a VCP (Virtual Com Port) on the PC. Furthermore, I DO NOT think a normal install of Windows will provide the driver needed to implement a USB to serial conversion.

Also, I believe those people who were able to make use of a USB cable for their Rev. L TIU, ALREADY had a driver to implement a VCP in their windows driver library because they had previously used something that required that kind of driver -- such as the currently popular USB to serial cables which are needed these days since most current PCs don't have serial ports -- only USB ports.

I don't think a normal Windows install will provide a driver which implements a VCP, which is what a USB to serial port requires (i.e. a software construction of a USB to serial port!).

Ray

Ray,

That is have you updated a ver. 4.2 TIU rev. L using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable?

Yes, at least 100 times.

I have a plain vanilla install of Windows Home Premium Ver. 7 with SP 1 64bit and all my USB devices work without any additional driver installs!

I'd like to know if anyone with a plain windows install (without any such gadgets such as a USB to serial cable) has been able to use the TIU with a USB cable WITHOUT any additional driver installs.

That's exactly what I use.

I suspect these folks are the same ones who have used things such as the USB to serial cables FIRST, and then have gone on to use a rev L TIU with a USB cable!

The two scenarios have nothing to do with each other.

The reason I'm asking this question is because I think the USB cable connection to a TIU makes use of what is called a VCP (Virtual Com Port) on the PC.

That is of little or no consequence as regards this discussion.

Furthermore, I DO NOT think a normal install of Windows will provide the driver needed to implement a USB to serial conversion.

Even of it doesn't, which I do not believe is the case, Windows should definitely have any needed USB driver available to load on demand.

Also, I believe those people who were able to make use of a USB cable for their Rev. L TIU, ALREADY had a driver to implement a VCP in their windows driver library because they had previously used something that required that kind of driver -- such as the currently popular USB to serial cables which are needed these days since most current PCs don't have serial ports -- only USB ports.

Again, the driver for a USB to Serial cable, which can vary depending on the specific cable and version of Windows, is not the issue. That driver, if needed, would sit above the native USB port driver from a software perspective.

Your problem needs to be addressed as a Windows-specific issue, by whoever supports your PC.

Barry;

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

The issue is if a company (in this case MTH) is going to sell a product which they claim to be able to be used by a PC running MS Windows, it is then incumbent upon them to mention what drivers are needed to make their product work!

In a sense, they do, but they do a real good job of hiding it!

You are wrong about the driver needed for the Rev. L TIU being part of a "regular" Windows install -- it is not!

If that were the case then MTH would not have a News Flash on their site:

"Windows USB Drivers For DCS Loader Program - March 24, 2015"

cf. the Note between items 4 & 5 clearly indicates the driver isn't always present!

You are also wrong about this statement of yours:

"Your problem needs to be addressed as a Windows-specific issue, by whoever supports your PC."

If you were correct, then MTH would NOT provide the location on the web to download the needed driver!

After all, MTH is not supporting my PC.

Ray

Ray,

If you were correct, then MTH would NOT provide the location on the web to download the needed driver!

Don't confuse a courtesy advisory with an obligation on MTH's part to keep your PC's software current. That obligation falls on you and Microsoft.

The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH. If you want to stay current with your Windows software turn on automatic updating for Windows. If Windows still doesn't load the latest versions of its own drivers, shame on Microsoft.

Further, loading a 3rd party's drivers for their own brand of Serial to USB cable has absolutely no effect on loading Microsoft's own Windows USB drivers.

Do you have automatic updating turned on for Windows? I do not because I want to get only what I need and not a lot of Windows updates for which I have no use. However, I'm a bit more computer-savvy than the average PC user and am able to divine pretty much exactly what I need, which isn't much since I do all of my real work on Macs. The PC lives in the train room and exists solely to talk to the layout's e electronics (DC & Legacy).

If you lack expert knowledge of Windows (that's not a knock on you since that's where the vast majority of PC users reside), you might want to consider turning on Windows automatic updating and then going out for a very long lunch while Windows update itself in oh-so-many-ways.  

Ray,

IMHO you are exactly correct!  The driver that is missing (it was missing on my Win7 PC also) is a driver USED by windows but should be (and is, once you find it)  SUPPLIED by MTH.

The driver is needed to allow Windows to use the electronics in the MTH manufactured TIU.

When Barry says, "The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH.", that is inaccurate.  If you follow the link provided in the March 24th News Flash, it doesn't point to a file at Microsoft, it points to a file at MTH.

This "courtesy advisory" is not an advisory, it's providing REQUIRED info on how to get the hardware provided by MTH to be accessed by Windows.  Had MTH used a different USB chip in their TIU, Microsoft may have had the driver installed as part of Windows, but in this case, the driver needed for Windows to "see" the TIU is a driver that works with the USB port in MTH's TIU.

When I upgraded my TIUs, I had the same issue you did so I grabbed a USB to Serial adapter that I had, and updated via the adapter.  In some searching after that, I discovered the missing USB driver, and now have the option of updating either way.

Hope your issue is resolved now that you have the MTH-supplied driver for Windows 7 and your TIU updated,

Ed

eddie,

Why haven't I, and I suspect the majority of others who have upgraded Rev. L TIUs via the USB port, ever needed to install this driver?

eddiem posted:

Ray,

IMHO you are exactly correct!  The driver that is missing (it was missing on my Win7 PC also) is a driver USED by windows but should be (and is, once you find it)  SUPPLIED by MTH.

The driver is needed to allow Windows to use the electronics in the MTH manufactured TIU.

When Barry says, "The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH.", that is inaccurate.  If you follow the link provided in the March 24th News Flash, it doesn't point to a file at Microsoft, it points to a file at MTH.

This "courtesy advisory" is not an advisory, it's providing REQUIRED info on how to get the hardware provided by MTH to be accessed by Windows.  Had MTH used a different USB chip in their TIU, Microsoft may have had the driver installed as part of Windows, but in this case, the driver needed for Windows to "see" the TIU is a driver that works with the USB port in MTH's TIU.

When I upgraded my TIUs, I had the same issue you did so I grabbed a USB to Serial adapter that I had, and updated via the adapter.  In some searching after that, I discovered the missing USB driver, and now have the option of updating either way.

Hope your issue is resolved now that you have the MTH-supplied driver for Windows 7 and your TIU updated,

Ed

Ed;

Thanks for your support.

I begin my experience in electronics 54 years ago via the USAF in 1962 and my experience in computer programming 48 years ago in college.

Over the intervening years, I've come across many interesting problems/challenges.

I retired in 2008 after 36 years in the software industry working for the U.S. NAVY.

I have my PC on auto update and as you've indicated the driver does NOT come from Microsoft, but it does come from a Scottish Company called Future Technology Devices Inc. (FTDI) and it is they who supply the driver.

Also, as you point out, MTH designers elected to use FTDI's FT232RL chip in the TIU to implement the USB serial capability they desired since they apparently were unwilling to re-write the loader. It is the loader that requires a com port and since some machines don't have one, they needed a way to make use of a USB port to allow the loader to be fooled into thinking it was using a serial port -- hence the use of the Virtual Comm Port, which Barry insisted was irrelevant!

To answer Barry's question about why he and others have not had to load any drivers to use a rev. L TIU, I offer what I've already tried to offer: they probably had previously used something that required the FTDI driver and that was the source of their driver being available -- not Microsoft update!

It's easy enough to prove if anyone wants to (I have no problem doing it, but based on my recent discussions, I suspect it would fail to be accepted.)

All you have to do is do a fresh install of Windows (let's say Win 7) and then plug in your rev. L TIU and when you get the message about needing a driver, tell Windows to search it's update service and it will fail, since Microsoft doesn't supply the driver. At this point, you have to do what we've all done for so many years (I started with Windows ver. 2) and search the web for a driver!

Thanks to all for your support.

Ray

Ray,

they probably had previously used something that required the FTDI driver and that was the source of their driver being available -- not Microsoft update!

That's absolutely not the case.

Ray,

All you have to do is do a fresh install of Windows (let's say Win 7) and then plug in your rev. L TIU and when you get the message about needing a driver, tell Windows to search it's update service and it will fail, since Microsoft doesn't supply the driver. At this point, you have to do what we've all done for so many years (I started with Windows ver. 2) and search the web for a driver!

I tried this exactly on a new computer with Windows 7 - fresh install and did not have the situation you described.  My TIU connected right away without any driver download and I was able to backup my DCS remote data to that computer. Curious question, which web browser did you use in Windows ver. 2 to search the web?

h1000

Barry Broskowitz posted:

eddie,

Why haven't I, and I suspect the majority of others who have upgraded Rev. L TIUs via the USB port, ever needed to install this driver?

Barry,

As Ray explains in his reply,  the USB hardware chip in the MTH TIU is also used in many other USB-connected items and that the needed driver was provided on an install disk with a previously installed item without them even knowing it.  Not sure how it is "absolutely not the case"... it's certainly possible.

Absent some hard numbers, "suspecting a majority of others not needing this update" is IMHO, a stretch. 

To cite a recent web search, "The FTDI FT232 chip is found in thousands of electronic baubles, from Arduinos to test equipment, and more than a few bits of consumer electronics. It’s a simple chip, converting USB to a serial port, but very useful and probably one of the most cloned pieces of silicon on Earth."

In addition, I would guess that many TIU owners have a USB to Serial adapter that they used with older TIUs, like I did, and used that instead of the USB port.

As I think about it, some of the people who may have used a USB to Serial port adapter in the past, may have had the needed FTDI driver installed from a disk supplied with the USB to Serial adapter!  Perhaps that's why you already had it!

Ed

Ed, are you saying that this chip would be in a serial>USB adapter cable, so that the driver that comes with such a cable satisifes the above-argued need for a driver?

From the official Microsoft Support website:

Hi,

It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to provide drivers for their hardware.  I suggest you contact the manufacturer of the adaptor for the correct drivers.

Thanks for using the Answers Forum. Please let us know how this works out.

Joseph
Microsoft Answers Support Engineer

To cite a recent web search, "The FTDI FT232 chip is found in thousands of electronic baubles, from Arduinos to test equipment, and more than a few bits of consumer electronics. It’s a simple chip, converting USB to a serial port, but very useful and probably one of the most cloned pieces of silicon on Earth."

So why wouldn't Microsoft want to include a driver within its operating system for this popular type of device.

Still doesn't explain why my new out of the box (and never connected to the internet) computer worked perfectly when connected to the TIU.

H1000

RJR posted:

Ed, are you saying that this chip would be in a serial>USB adapter cable, so that the driver that comes with such a cable satisifes the above-argued need for a driver?

Yes, I am saying the driver MIGHT already be there from a USB to serial adapter cable.... I prefer "above-discussed"

H1000 posted:

.....

"So why wouldn't Microsoft want to include a driver within its operating system for this popular type of device."

I cant speak for Microsoft....but as I said, MTH is the party responsible for providing the driver (or access to it).... I guess you could say they did, in a news flash.

"Still doesn't explain why my new out of the box (and never connected to the internet) computer worked perfectly when connected to the TIU."

I suppose it is possible that your "new out of the box computer" has the  same FTDI chipset on the motherboard, so the installed version of Win 7 already includes the driver....not a statement of fact, but it's possible!

Ed

eddie,

As Ray explains in his reply,  the USB hardware chip in the MTH TIU is also used in many other USB-connected items and that the needed driver was provided on an install disk with a previously installed item without them even knowing it.

Extremely unlikely in my case, since I have arguably the most plain-vanilla, under-utilized PC on the planet.

Absent some hard numbers, "suspecting a majority of others not needing this update" is IMHO, a stretch. 

As I recall, I have yet to see a forum post where anyone had a similar problem to Ray's and had to find this driver to correct it. While I don't read every post on the OGR forums, I do make it a habit to read every post on this DCS forum.

As I think about it, some of the people who may have used a USB to Serial port adapter in the past, may have had the needed FTDI driver installed from a disk supplied with the USB to Serial adapter!  Perhaps that's why you already had it!

While I cannot rule that out entirely, I can tell you that I personally haven't ever had to locate and load a driver for a USB to Serial cable on my current PC laptop (Toshiba Satellite), which I purchased several years ago. It came with Windows 7 Home Edition pre-loaded and the very first time I updated a Rev. L, it just did it. It may have loaded a driver, however, if it did so, it did so automatically and found any necessary software all by itself.

Further, the earliest date on the oldest component of this driver is October 22, 2014. I was updating Rev. L TIUs via the USB ports well before then and the Rev; L has been around since, I believe, December 2012. MTH's advisory is dated March 15, 2015.

Barry,

I also had the problem as did a few friends who called me, hoping for some friendly guidance instead of posting on the forum.

As I said to H1000, I suppose it is possible that your "new out of the box computer" (or your laptop) has the  same FTDI chipset on the motherboard, so the installed version of Win 7 already includes the driver....not a statement of fact, but it's possible!

Ed

New test(s):

Fired up the VMWARE with an old copy of Windows XP SP1 (fresh install) - no way the FTDI chipset can exist on this system - Driver not included with the default install but I was able to install it via Microsoft Update when asked to search for a driver.

Fired up another VMWARE system with a copy of VISTA SP2 (again fresh install) TIU connected right away without driver download and verified communication to the TIU by backing up data from my DCS remote.

Now, these are VMWARE systems but the hardware is connected directly to the operating system (which is why I used VMWARE and not Microsoft Virtual machine). Identical hardware configured in the VMWARE construction for both OS's.

I can test more Operating systems if you want (4 versions of Windows 95 through Windows 10) within this environment all fresh installs with any service pack revision requested. Windows 3.0 and 3.11 will take longer to setup. 

Yes, I am saying the driver MIGHT already be there from a USB to serial adapter cable

Thanks, Eddiem.  I don't want to get involved in this "discussion", but just for general info wanted to know if this chip would be in the cable.  In fact, I've never used the USB port on my Rev L---When I update my TI\Us, I just line them up and use the adapter cable.

H1000,

I have no knowledge of VMware, but testing on it doesn't sound like it is the same thing as testing on a real, out of the box, brand new Dell, Toshiba, or HP PC... but if you're having fun... enjoy! Maybe VMware has an FTDI driver built in?  No idea...

My discussion is based on my real HP Windows 7 PC.

Ed

As indicated by test #1 the driver is not included with Windows XP Service Pack 1 or VMWARE. It had to be downloaded (easily) from Microsoft Update when the TIU was connected.

In test #2 it was included with the operating system (Vista Service Pack 2) with the same hardware setup as test #1.

I don't want to get into a lengthy discussion of how VMWARE works but I can pick and choose hardware parameters as I wish. This allowed me to essentially test the operating system and leave out the variable of different computer brands and models. By using fresh installed Operating Systems that were never connected to the internet, I know the driver wasn't installed by an automatic update or previously attached hardware.

My point is, the driver is included with most modern operating systems (suspect anything 2010 or newer for sure) and should work any computer (in good working order) with these operating systems.

What H1000 said!

"VMware....leaves out the variable of different computer brands and models"  Thank you.  So it is possible that some manufacturers of different brands and models could include the driver in their OS image so that a part on their motherboard (which is not in a hardware-free VM install) would work out of the box.  You confirm my point!

"My point is, the driver is included with most modern operating systems (suspect anything 2010 or newer for sure) and should work any computer (in good working order) with these operating systems."

Regardless of how many times you say "it should be there", my PC (HP with Win7) and Rays' PC (Win7) did not have it... Barry's might have had it installed by Toshiba "at birth", or it might have been installed with another item.  Others might have had it installed when they added a USB to Serial adapter, many of which use the same driver.

Bottom line:

1) MTH, not Microsoft is responsible for providing the driver or a link to it.  They did so in a "news flash"

2) Some PC users may have had the FTDI driver installed by the PC maker, it was installed with another item, or perhaps with a USB to Serial adapter.  Regardless of comments to the contrary, that absolutely IS the case for many.

3) VMware testing is not the same as specific hardware for testing.

Stay warm (in the northeast (It's OK, we had great weather for the Big E show!)), and enjoy your trains!

Ed

Well Ed, your points are correct also.

1) MTH did their job by issuing a news flash after discovering an issue.

2) PC manufactures may or may not have installed the driver by default or could have removed it on purpose (not sure why they want to do that but they have their reasons).

3) This type of testing is different. It is impossible for MTH to test all specific makes and models of PC hardware with the TIU (Way too much hardware out there). I would assume they tested similar to my method to ensure Microsoft included the needed driver with the OS and left out the possible wildcards that the PC manufactures throw into the mix. I simply wanted to test the OS against the TIU with minimal interference from the hardware (again due to the massive numbers of makes and models of computers).

You also keep warm!
Best wishes and Happy Railroading!
H1000

My computer crashed a few years ago, purchased a new HP with Windows 8.  Never had to search and load a driver.  Downloaded MTH Dealer loader, plugged in the USB to TIU and went right back to work loading Sound Files.  So what ever was needed occurred transparent to any overt action on my part.  G

Hi RAYL,

Thanks for creating that really interesting tread, and thanks also to everyone who have shared their knowledge and experience on the subject.  Really interesting !

It would be good to know if you have successfully installed what was missing, use or not the driver from the MTH site (News Flash), and successfully update your DCS devices to DCS 5.0

Thanks again,

Daniel

Daniel Auger posted:

Hi RAYL,

Thanks for creating that really interesting tread, and thanks also to everyone who have shared their knowledge and experience on the subject.  Really interesting !

It would be good to know if you have successfully installed what was missing, use or not the driver from the MTH site (News Flash), and successfully update your DCS devices to DCS 5.0

Thanks again,

Daniel

 

 

Daniel;

About a half hour after I posted the problem of Windows not finding the drivers (ftdibus.sys, ftser2k.sys) needed for a Rev. L TIU, I found the drivers by searching the web. I downloaded and installed them and had my TIU upgraded to 5.0 quickly. At that point, I decided to visit the MTH website, where I located the reference to these same drivers I had previously located elsewhere. I uninstalled the previous drivers and downloaded and installed those pointed to by MTH.

They were a slightly newer version.

After that I scoured the web looking for info on these drivers and came upon the same kind of info that "eddiem" reported on in one of his many posts on this thread.

As you know, this issue (for me at least) is only relevant with respect to upgrading a Rev. L TIU using the USB cable with the type A to type B connectors. i.e. I'm not interested in any other rev. TIU or any other connection method for the PC to TIU connection.

With regard to my above mentioned interest, I'd love to see a list of those who didn't need drivers vs. those who did need drivers.

For each category, I'd list these kind of specifications:

Manufacturer of PC

Processor

Windows version

Windows install an OEM build or Microsoft retail build

I don't think anyone involved in this discussion would deny the drivers are needed!

There appear to be 2 points:

1. The drivers were on the PC already and it may not be so clear how they got there!

2. The drivers were NOT on the PC and had to be acquired from somewhere!

Point 2 is further divided into 2 sub-points a. & b.

a. The drivers were acquired through an explicit download from some site (as was my case).

b. The drivers were acquired through an IMPLICIT download from Microsoft via their Update service!

The only part I would question is the contention, by some, that the drivers were acquired via Microsoft Update service as would happen when you make an explicit request for a driver update OR through the normal scheduled Update process that we can configure within Windows.

I have tried the explicit request through a right mouse click on the device icon in Device Manager many times and it always failed to find the drivers on the Microsoft Update server.

As you're probably aware, the update process has changed, almost with each release of Windows.

In some of the earlier release prior to 7 & 8, the update process would try, at least 4 sources:

1. Local drives

2. Any network connected drives

3. A specifically requested source such as a floppy, or CDROM

4. Microsoft Update servers

It was not always clear (or at least noticed by the operator) which of the sources was the one to provide the requested driver in the case where the search was successful.

Having said all this (which is probably far more than you bargained for), my real interest is in having clear and accurate information.

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of 'magic' as regards how things happen in the technical realm.

One final point:

Here is my take on the issue of where the drivers came from; i.e. how they came to be resident on your hard drive.

1. they were part of a Microsoft build of the OS (not likely)

2. they were part of a Microsoft OEM build of the OS (more likely)

3. they were installed as part of the process of introducing new hardware which requires a driver install and when the drivers are not found in their normal location (Windows/system32/drivers), the Windows hardware install process will ask the operator for assistance on where to locate the required drivers.

4. they are the same drivers needed by some other hardware being installed and then later, when a different piece of hardware is installed, the drivers are already present in their home.

Number 3 is my case and I had to first go get the drivers somewhere and THEN repeat the process of new hardware introduction to the PC.

I find it very unlikely that a non-OEM version of Windows (that's one that Microsoft built) had these drivers as part of the build.

However, it may have happened that way because Microsoft has written some drivers for the USB ports to be able to deal with serial data!

I believe this is my longest post, EVER!

Sorry

GGG posted:

My computer crashed a few years ago, purchased a new HP with Windows 8.  Never had to search and load a driver.  Downloaded MTH Dealer loader, plugged in the USB to TIU and went right back to work loading Sound Files.  So what ever was needed occurred transparent to any overt action on my part.  G

G;

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if you plugged in the USB cable to your TIU BEFORE downloading the dealer loader?

I'm beginning to get the impression that some manufacturers with some of their Windows distributions provide these drivers as part of their build (for some unknown reason, at least it's unknown to me).

I'm using an HP Pavilion dv7-6c64nr laptop with Windows 7 which I installed from the recovery partition on the hard drive. That partition is supposed to contain exactly what was on the factory installed partition but I'm now wondering if that is true -- I'll never know for sure.

Ray

Ray,

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if you plugged in the USB cable to your TIU BEFORE downloading the dealer loader?

How could that make any difference?

Barry;

I don't know if it would or not -- just wondering.

I have a question for you, Barry.

Are you still of the opinion that I had to download the drivers because I didn't keep my PC up to date with the latest software updates from the Microsoft Update Service?

Ray

I can't answer your question.  I know on my XP I did have to down load the extra file for Rev L.  For my current program I did not, but it is an all in one and only has USB ports, and lots of them.  So maybe that type of soft ware was installed by OEM since serial port not on this.

I also know my computer works with the USB to serial adapter cable which I needed to upgrade non Rev L TIUs.

I have been a little leery switching to Window's 10 because I can't afford any glitches at this point in the train repair season.  G