traction tires!

Well, until we can get Lionel to start sanding the rails with miniature sand, I guess we are stuck with rubber bands.

Just kidding, but I do see the guys having problems with traction tires also seem to be the guys who use way too much smoke fluid. Maybe just a coincidence.

Charlie

Stop buying trains.  Seriously.  The manufacturers know better.  US Hobbies (2-rail O scale) had things figured out by the mid-1960's.  When MTH brought out their HO product line, all of the steam locos had replaceable wheels and axles from the very beginning, with a non-tired pair of wheels in the box.  American Models (may they rest in peace) S gauge steam locos were also made with interchangeable wheels and axles.

But in 3-rail O, product development basically ceased after the 700E in 1937.  Captive-axle construction.  Cast-in gearbox with no way to change the gear ratio.  Chipped driving wheel?  Worn bearings??  You'll need a puller and a press.  Oh, and a master machinist with a surface plate to make sure everything goes back together in quarter.   Fast-forward 50 years, and MTH, Lionel are still building them that way.  People keep buying them because, (A) they don't know better, or (B) there's just no alternative.

If the current inventory doesn't sell and has to be blown out, maybe this will send a signal to the major brands to invest in new (long overdue) chassis tooling.  I would go for a "hybrid," but just the opposite of what Lionel did.  I want a "scale-like" chassis and drivetrain under a die-cast body.  Then we would have a choice.  Tires or no tires.  100 MPH toy train express, or NMRA switching speeds.  Everybody wins! 

I already have one of almost every steam loco I've ever wanted.  The only way a builder will open my wallet is to build a "better mousetrap."  Now who's going to be first!?

TED S: A logical suggestion, which of course, will be ignored!  😐

MONK posted:

I'am sick of them, what do we do?

Why, buy trains with magna-traction, of course

My 65-year old locos' magne-tractions are shot.  At least I can replace traction tires.

Traction tires, at best, are a PITA! In most cases, the weight of diecast or even weighted plastic locos would provide adequate traction without those @$%& tires. 

RJR posted:

My 65-year old locos' magne-tractions are shot.  At least I can replace traction tires.

Odd. I've never even heard of this before. What kind of track do you use? Are you sure that these engines had the magna-traction feature (not all postwar Lionel's did)? Some late '50's cheapened diesels came with only single axel magna-traction that was not very strong to begin with, but it is still evidences itself on those that I have.

I have over 60 postwar Lionel engines, all with magna-traction, none are "shot", many pick up track sections when I lift them from my display shelves 

I store mine on traditional tinplate track  (but I have no idea how they were stored by previous owners), I wonder if this makes/made a difference?

MONK posted:

I'am sick of them, what do we do?

ORGANIZE!  We could use this "Topic" or a social media page as our website and share the address with our right thinking fellow travelers.  Manufacturers pay attention to numbers, so, a few of us howling in the wilderness, from time to time, isn't going to do anything other than make us feel better for a few minutes.  We need to make a big stir!

As has been noted, above, 2 rail O Scale doesn't need traction tires.  Its the same stuff on the same rails and some of their rails are even skinnier than ours giving their untired wheels even less to grip.

Having given this issue some thought, it has occurred to me that traction tires must have resulted from the high cost of magnetraction, the introduction of non-magnetic rails and the pre-TMCC/DCS inability to "MU" equipment reliably.  I have vivid memories of working to get two or three locomotives' E-units in sync only to have one hit a rusty or dirty spot and put me back to zero... again and again.  I am convinced that this is also the origin of the non-powered, "dummy" locomotive.

My solution has been to avoid Lionel, Atlas and MTH RailKing locomotives and stick with MTH Premier diesels of the PS 3.0+ variety.  The ability to change out wheel and axle sets and the availability of both Hi-Rail and Scale Wheel replacements make MTH the winner in my book.  Being a Chicago Great Western (CGW) fan, I was overjoyed to see MTH produce a line of "Scale Wheels" F3s and I bought 'em all.  On the other hand, Lionel's 2019-2 catalog lists CGW F7s but I won't be buying them, no matter how much it hurts, because they'll have traction tires and moveable pilots.  You can see that I've been spoiled. 

That leads to my next related issue: With few exceptions, MTH doesn't manufacture switch engines in their premier line.  Both Lionel and MTH ALCo S-2 locomotives do have interchangeable wheelsets, and there may be others, but I haven't encountered them.  MTH has disappointed me by not offering their PA/B, E6, DL, etc. with interchangeable wheelsets; even the exquisite little 44 Tonners have traction tires.

JOIN OR DIE!

O scale operators don’t try to climb 7% grades. Ogauge guys do so traction tired locos are the easiest way to take care of that. 

And MTH has found the perfect answer: Choices.

Lionelski posted:

MONK posted:

I'am sick of them, what do we do?

Why, buy trains with magna-traction, of course

Works really well on Atlas track.

Lionelski:  One is a 1950 #736 & the other a l954 or so 624.  I converted the latter to PS2 but the magnets are so weak that in can't pull more than a few cars.  I essentially us it now to pull a track cleaner.

I had converted the 736 to PS2; the ability to run at low speeds highlighted its mechanical problems which neither I nor a Lionel guru could diagnose  and I restored the E-unit.  But it's pulling ability was niuch less than when it was new.

The fact is that magnets do weaken.  I have heard it said that the magnets stand up better if the loco is left on tubular track with metal ties than on track with insulated outer rails, such as Gargraves.  I note in passing that when not in use, horseshoe magnets should be left with a piece of iron across the poles.

As for traction tires, I have two Weaver locos I bought about 1992.  They have seen heavy use and, having been converted to PS2, continue to see regular use, and they still have the original traction tires.  I have newer locos on which I have had to spend the few minutes to replace traction tires.

Traction tires are a problem?  I run my trains a lot and rarely need to change a tire.  I have an MTH PRR Atlantic that I believe was manufactured in 2000.  I replaced the first tire about five years ago and the second last week.

The tires are generally easy to replace, too. It can get a little tricky with steam engines if you have to remove and replace the driving rods to install the tire.  Be sure to note the position or photo the rods before you remove them so they can be re-assembled in the proper position.  Rods out of position will jam!

Here are pics of my 736 steamer and 613 switcher holding onto O27 track sections with their magna-traction

romiller49 posted:

O scale operators don’t try to climb 7% grades. Ogauge guys do so traction tired locos are the easiest way to take care of that. 

Yup.  That's pretty much it. 

And don't forget, sharp curves aren't overly helpful for locomotive traction, either. 

Have a Lionel 2314 with traction tires on rear wheel, during a pull the tires came off, I cleaned the steel wheel with acetone, then using a  straw from a can of solvent, dripped  super glue on the grooved area of the wheel and got the tire on. Works fine. when I need to remove tire , will use acetone to remove superglue.  I also use purple locktite on the eccentric screws after cleaning out the threads on the wheels. works great. Purple Locktite  is the weakest type of  Locktite available

Traction tires on my MTH locomotives last many years. I run short consists at moderate speeds on O-72 and O-54 curves, all of which tend to prolong tire life. It's easy to change tires on MTH diesels but more of a nuisance on steam engines, in which case I'm more concerned about damaging the engine while changing the tires - but that hasn't happened yet. If they were offered, I would buy 3-rail engines without traction tires. I don't like the grooved wheels or the tires...

MELGAR

MY club runs gargraves track, magna trac does not work on this type of track. the problem is that the coefficient of friction between steel wheels and metal track is low, the rubber on the wheels has a much better COF and actually gets compressed providing a better footprint for torque to be transfer to the track, much like a Auto tire. A rubber tire locomotive will do a higher grade than a postwar steel wheel locomotive, I have seen real steam locomotives spin wheels, have you ever seen a diesel do so, i doubt it, the same with  o gauge locomotives. Yes I don't like rubber tires but its something we have to put up with to pull our trains. 

I like both Magnetraction and traction tires.

I have about 10 MTH Railking Proto 1 engines, all with traction tires. I bought most of them between 15 and 25 years ago. I replaced all these traction tires only once, which was last year. I called MTH, and sent them an email providing the identification number of each locomotive, and paid the fee for the tires by credit card. I received the tires in the mail in a few days.  My recollection is that the fee was about $1 per tire, which isn't cheap, but still well worth it, IMO, because the trains run great. I found it to be easy to replace the tires on both my steamers and diesel engines.

I very rarely clean the track on my layout, maybe once in 5 years, and still rarely have a traction tire problem. This past year I frequently run a dehumidifier in my basement where I have my layout, which may help preserve the traction tires.

I think traction tires are better than Magnetraction for providing pulling power.

I keep all of my Lionels with Magnetraction (15 to 20 Postwar locomotives) on Lionel Tubular track at all times. I think that may help preserve the Magnetraction, but some of these locomotives from the 1950s have lost some or all of their Magnetraction; others still have strong Magnetraction. I don't know why this is so. I want to preserve the Magnetraction to the maximum extent. If you know how best to do this, please explain how on this thread. Arnold