Warped under frames on Atlas Box cars

bluelinec4 posted:

Hate to tell you guys but those are not 50 foot master line cars  Its a 40 foot plug door box car.  Oh yeah the plug door is molded into the car and doesnt open.  Master line are completely different animals    TRAINMAN .   Which By the way use the Tooling and molds from the old Roco cars  It is NOT A Roco car.  

This is the same car

Not sure of the reason for the sarcasm, especially since you're incorrect.

1) Atlas did NOT use the Roco tooling/molds for the TrainMan production. They definitely DID use the same designs, but not the same tooling.

2) The original poster's cars are definitely Master line 50' Plug Door PS-1 Boxcars, not Trainman. Check out item #8857 here:

http://www.atlaso.com/opspd1.htm

TRW

The underframes look a lot different to me.

OP's

BLUELINEC4's

PAUL ROMANO posted:

Jim R. posted:

C'mon guys. Look before declaring your opinion. Those are not the Roco cars, which were made in Austria in the 1970s. Look at the picture. It clearly says "Atlas O" and "Made in China" on the length-wise supports.

The post stated ROCO molds were used not that these are ROCO cars made in Austria. Please read the post correctly before you respond.

I see your point if you mean you thought the Roco underframe molds were altered to indicate the Atlas O/China designation on 40-foot cars. But these aren't Roco if they are 50-foot cars, as the second replied noted and on which my reply is based. And another poster noted such tooling was not re-used for Chinese production. So again, not Roco.

I thinking it's zinc pest, too. If the frame is diecast, that's certainly the answer. But I'm not familiar enough with Atlas O's current 50-foot plug-door boxcar to be certain it's not plastic. 

PaperTRW posted:

bluelinec4 posted:

Hate to tell you guys but those are not 50 foot master line cars  Its a 40 foot plug door box car.  Oh yeah the plug door is molded into the car and doesnt open.  Master line are completely different animals    TRAINMAN .   Which By the way use the Tooling and molds from the old Roco cars  It is NOT A Roco car.  

This is the same car

Not sure of the reason for the sarcasm, especially since you're incorrect.

1) Atlas did NOT use the Roco tooling/molds for the TrainMan production. They definitely DID use the same designs, but not the same tooling.

2) The original poster's cars are definitely Master line 50' Plug Door PS-1 Boxcars, not Trainman. Check out item #8857 here:

http://www.atlaso.com/opspd1.htm

TRW

Concerning your first point, that's what I recall, too. Atlas worked with Roco in N, HO and O in the 1970s, but retained none of the tooling, as far as I know.

Roco continued using N scale tooling for its own line of freight cars in the 1980s. The N scale locomotive tooling was never used again. It's HO locomotive tooling was used in partnership with Con-Cor that same decade. The O scale line disappeared, presumably because Roco retained the tooling but could find no market for it, that decade.

Atlas produced similar products on its own after that point, but not from Roco tooling.

So the assumption that these warped-frame cars are Roco molds is likely not based on fact. 

Ok, I did some sleuthing and...

The car number of the 1st car in the first photo matches 4 out of 5 number of the one as listed by a number of posters at  http://www.atlaso.com/opspd1.htm as well as matching on every details I can make out. 

I also found a Milwaukee road version 9858-1 from the same release (2007) with photos of the box on ebay, the box clearly states Master Line and it has a Die-Cast underframe.

Here is a photo of the underside of a Santa Fe version from the previous years release (2006).

I have two Atlas O Master line PS-1 Box cars, not the Plug door as the OP, but a single door and a double door.  Would anyone know if the underframes on these models could be of the same batch and tooling?  Both are less than 7 years old.

Ironhorseman posted:

 

Here is a photo of the underside of a Santa Fe version from the previous years release (2006).

I have two Atlas O Master line PS-1 Box cars, not the Plug door as the OP, but a single door and a double door.  Would anyone know if the underframes on these models could be of the same batch and tooling?  Both are less than 7 years old.

The CP car posted shows Aug 2007 as expected delivery date. What Atlas number are yours?

Big Jim posted:

The underframes look a lot different to me.

Try rotating 1 of them 180 degrees?

mwb posted:

Big Jim posted:

The underframes look a lot different to me.

Try rotating 1 of them 180 degrees?

To what end? 

Ironhorseman posted:

Ok, I did some sleuthing and...

The car number of the 1st car in the first photo matches 4 out of 5 number of the one as listed by a number of posters at  http://www.atlaso.com/opspd1.htm as well as matching on every details I can make out. 

I also found a Milwaukee road version 9858-1 from the same release (2007) with photos of the box on ebay, the box clearly states Master Line and it has a Die-Cast underframe.

Here is a photo of the underside of a Santa Fe version from the previous years release (2006).

I have two Atlas O Master line PS-1 Box cars, not the Plug door as the OP, but a single door and a double door.  Would anyone know if the underframes on these models could be of the same batch and tooling?  Both are less than 7 years old.

Right die-cast underframe.  no mention of what the floor is made of.  Its plain to see that the floor and the frame are separate parts.

Jim

Rotating 180 degrees

To what end ?

They look like mirror images.

If you rotate one 180 degrees they may be the same frame

Try it, just to humor us

What is this, a game of "Blind Man's Bluff"?
Go humor yourself!

Jim R. posted:

Impurities in the process of casting zinc alloys causes the finished castings to deteriorate in a short period of time. The deterioration often causes the castings to expand. If a casting is contained, like in the case of a frame secured inside a car body, it warps as it tries to expand.

Zinc pest, which was a problem in the prewar period, and occasionally in the postwar period, in American production has resurfaced in Chinese production in the past 20 years. It's still relatively uncommon, but we have been sharing a few examples here. In fact, the topic has been discussed at length in the past two weeks and was still active just several days ago.

You might want to acquaint yourself with the search function on this forum. The answers are typically already there.

I am well aware of the search function of this Forum.It was just a simple question as you were quickly willing to compose a two paragraph  answer.No harm done.Nick

rockstars1989 posted:

Jim R. posted:

Impurities in the process of casting zinc alloys causes the finished castings to deteriorate in a short period of time. The deterioration often causes the castings to expand. If a casting is contained, like in the case of a frame secured inside a car body, it warps as it tries to expand.

Zinc pest, which was a problem in the prewar period, and occasionally in the postwar period, in American production has resurfaced in Chinese production in the past 20 years. It's still relatively uncommon, but we have been sharing a few examples here. In fact, the topic has been discussed at length in the past two weeks and was still active just several days ago.

You might want to acquaint yourself with the search function on this forum. The answers are typically already there.

I am well aware of the search function of this Forum.It was just a simple question as you were quickly willing to compose a two paragraph  answer.No harm done.Nick

Absolutely. I was suggesting the option so no one would have to wait for an answer. And to honest, I have had trouble with the forum search function recently, because a post had a rather significant misspelling of a proper name that was critical to the search. Zinc pest also can be readily searched using Google. 

The frames are the same. I took the image above, split it and rotated the bottom frame 180 degrees. Both say Atlas and made in China on them.

OP: Do you have the boxes these came in? If so please share a picture of the end flaps with catalog numbers.

Chris

LVHR

I posted the original photos and post on this topic.

Just to confirm they are metal I took them apart and one frame fell apart.

Got to go through some of the other cars I have and see if there is a problem.

The Bachmann trolley was another of these zinc rot topics a short while back. Mine is still looking good. I have to go dig through my other cars and take a look for other cars with this problem. 

Will be in touch with Atlas after I check the rest of my freight cars extensive collection. Thanks for the comments.

I have checked just about all of my Atlas cars and have found one reefer car that has this problem, a Ballantine reefer car.

lehighline posted:

The frames are the same. I took the image above, split it and rotated the bottom frame 180 degrees. Both say Atlas and made in China on them.

OP: Do you have the boxes these came in? If so please share a picture of the end flaps with catalog numbers.

 

Chris

LVHR

Well, you and a couple of other here missed the point COMPLETELY! Did you not follow and comprehend the context of this thread from the very beginning?

Yes those two frames are of the same type of model. This is a photo from the original poster "KL356".

It doesn't matter which way or how many degrees you flip them, they are NOT the same frame that poster "BLUELINEC4" said that they were!

Paul Graf posted:

Please contact Bill in our Customer Service department.  There were a lot of products from different manufacturers produced at the same factory about this time that have exhibited the zinc pest problem, including the Weaver Troop Sleepers.  That problem has nothing do to with the product design, or the frames we are producing for the Troop Sleepers at this time.

 

I did contact Bill regarding a caboose I had witha similar problem and he was very helpful.  Zinc pest/rot was evident as truck bolsters and detail mountings were crumbling and falling off.  Then the whole thing broke into pieces.  

I spoke to Bill Serratelli at Atlas in reference to the warped floor problem and he stated that new floors have been ordered and should be available in a "couple of months".  In the meantime Bill recommended that I remove the bad floor to prevent any possible damage to the body of the car. I removed the floor and it promptly broke into three parts. Below is what is left of the bad floor.

Well After I realized I was wrong that this was a Trainman car I went through my Atlas cars and I have the same exact car   It was brand new never out of the box  Still taped in and guess what   Look at this