What do you think Legacy Control System the Next Step In Control Systems

I see an aftermarket opportunity to rip apart the Fastrack segment and transplant it into the other track brands.

 

I like the idea, but it'll take a few years to catch up, since you have to have all new Legacy locomotives for it to be 100% effective.  Forget about MTH PS/2-3 locomotives...

Already discussed. JonZ is already looking into this track retro possibility. 

GMTA.

Coming soon?

 

 

All Vision Line engines have the IR sensor.

All Legacy engines produced after ~ August 2011 have the IR sensor.

Would like to retro fit some box cars to place in trains that don't have the sensor.  Also, what about one in a caboose for end of train sensor??

Dan

I have a bunch of questions about this new system, among them:

 

1. I'm designing a new layout, with a new control panel.  I should leave room for the iPad holder thingy, but need to know its dimensions.

 

2. When the iPad is sitting in its holder, is it tethered by some cable?  Or is it truly wireless, so I can lift it out and walk around the layout with the iPad, which communicates wirelessly to its holder?

 

3. Is the new special SensorTrack required for use of the iPad App, or just "nice to have" to record the characteristics of engines, etc?  I can imagine controlling engines and switches with the iPad if the iPad learns from my Legacy CAB-2 what roster of engines I have, and communicates with my SC-2s about my switches, without needing the SensorTrack.

 

4. When might these goodies actually be delivered?

   Bob A.

Since the iPad has WiFi, what's the point of the one in the base?

The IPad base holds the WiFi for the Legacy base unit so it can talk to the IPad.  The SensorTrack is not required, but it allows two way communication with the locomotives.

 

Which brings up the next question.  How many SensorTracks are allowed to be connected to a legacy base??  One, one per loop, or one per block?  How are they displayed on the track layout on the IPad?

 

Dan

Seems kind of limited for the price (guessing several hundred). I would be interested in something that I could import my RR-Track file into and then expand the iPad display to look at any area of it, etc. and control switches, etc. I see a yard track layout on the sample picture...just what are the features of this, anyone know?

I'd imagine that the system can support multiple sensor tracks on a given layout. I would think that the more sensor tracks used, the more accurate the "tracking" would be of the train traveling the layout.

I do hope that they plan some sort of retrofit for earlier Legacy locos if the IR feature is critical to the system.

The IR system is key for the system to operate, but I'd be somewhat surprised at a retrofit.  I think it would be more involved than just the sensor, it's the firmware and electronics package as well.

I would be surprised if there was a retrofit of engines.  That's why I suggested a box car following an engine could hold the IR. The box/passenger car could then be paired with the engine and the system could then command the engine.  Most people would balk of the price of shipping an engine in for the upgrade let alone the cost of the upgrade.

Dan

The boxcar would be a good idea.  Another plan would be a simple retro-fit kit that could be put in any car.  This would allow you to equip a passenger or freight train of your chosen road-name.

Well this is a nice feature and also to the iPad but!

 

 this sounds oh so familiar to the system tas had back quite a few years ago so sure hope this one flies better than that one did been there done that!

 

I do hope for those of you climbing on board that it is all you want and more.

 

$oo

Oh, I'm not ready to climb aboard just yet, I'll wait until it's a reality and the capabilities and limitations are better known.

I would like to see a retro fit kit that would be built into the trucks, powered by the third rail and would come with the choice of freight or passenger trucks. Kind of like the vision line tank cars have sensors in their trucks. Just a thought to spin to lionel. 

Thanks Marty, now the WiFi in the base makes sense.

This is very intriguing - I hope they are incorporating a counting function.  So many more possibilities if you could program a sequence to play every xth time a train passes over the sensor.....

Actually you can play a sequence for any sensor equipped train that runs over it. 

Yes but can you play sequence when a train passes over the sensor for the third time....

I saw it in operation at the Lionel booth. Seems that it could be rather expensive if you don't already have an Apple Iphone. Besides that I sometimes wonder if they have lost their focus somewhat. It's now gone from just operating your trains to adding some pretty elaborate devices.

 

Maybe they are trying to attract the 30 somethings to the hobby by adding all of these complicated devices.

 

You will also notice that in order to use the system your engines need the sensors built into them so the system as it is currently designed will not work with just any engine.

 

The original intend of the TMCC/Legacy system was backwards compatibility and this is anything but.

 

Prior to Lionel buying out Lou Kovatch and hiring Jon Z. Lou was working on a collision avoidance system that would use the re-designed TPC's and other components, the ones with the + and - terminals, to allow detect the location of engines and provide feedback to the Legacy remote.  Too bad Lionel did not follow through on this concept since it would have worked with any track system and any engine.

I am a forty year old kid.  I bought my first Legacy engine when I was 37.  I hope that Lionel does develop products that attract more 30 somethings to the hobby.  Even better if we get more children and adolescents to enjoy this hobby!  If this hobby does not evolve to attract new members what will happen to it 20 years from now? 

 

I like the fact that Lionel is attempting to innovate and take advantage of present day technology.  The Legacy remote has a soft key for accessories.  Since I bought the CAB2 I have been waiting to control accessories.  I see it very differently from Trainman9.  I want to use my CAB2 or an iPad to control my entire layout.

 

It is a big hobby.  Those that are not interested in this innovation have the choice to not buy it.  As a tangent to this post, I wonder if Lionel will always sell conventional engines, or is it remotely possible that they will go the way of the cassette players and the corded phone?

Personally I think Elliot will get what he want in a future release. If the demand s there it would be dumb not to. 

It is disappointing Lionel apparently doesn't have a plan for a retrofit upgrade for the IR feature on older Legacy engines. My locomotives fit in the older category. I'm not going to buy a whole new bunch of locomotives so my existing Legacy locomotives can be relegated to the sidelines along with TMCC and conventional engines. Although I think the technology looks really neat, I don't have any interest as it makes older equipment obsolete. It may not be planned obsolescence, but it has the same effect.

If this catches on, it may be time for a 3rd party to develop a little module with the IR capability that can be installed on any locomotive or rolling stock.

If your engine is still under warranty any modification of that type would void the warranty. This is clearly stated in the new warranties that come with engines made after 2011.

Clearly, you missed my point.   Since these are locomotives without the IR capability, they're very likely also not under warranty.  Also, a logical place to install these modules would probably be on some rolling stock.

I did not miss your point. My recently purchased Lionel Legacy K4 which is under warranty until April 2014 does not have the IR sensor.

John

 

I thought the very same thing.  Rolling stock with the sensor.  It can go behind the engine and accomplish the same thing.  Even if Lionel markets the cars themselves.

If it is in a car how does it talk to the engine? The IR in the engine makes it possible to have the train blow its whistle at a grade crossing when it crosses over the sensor track. I doubt this could be done from having the IR sensor for the loco in lets say a trailing box car. Maybe the IR device must pass through or be linked to the other legacy boards. Don't no.

The IR sensor only tells Legacy what engine has past it.  So if you assign the same ID to the IR car, then the IR sensor will know which engine is passing.  Thus letting Legacy send out the appropriate commands for a whistle sound, bell, or anything.

 

At least that's how I see it.

Well, I guess you can't modify that one yet.

I don't know guys, how is running trains via Ipad more fun? I like the sensor idea for triggering functions on engines as they go around the track, and I believe there is a crash avoidance system here somewhere... is there a signal detection device in there somewhere too?

I consider myself a youngin'  but I am a tad over 30,  but I guess I would have to try running trains this way and understand all the functions before I dump alot of time and money in it.

I think we're just discussing it at this point.  My wallet and credit card is safely stored and isn't coming out anytime soon for this project.

I like the idea of using an iPad/iPhone instead of the Cab 2.  One of the great benefits would be customization.  An example would be a child mode where you could limit what they could do, e.g. just blow the whistle and control a limited speed range but NOT change direction or fire the electrocouplers.

Well this might be the long term vision of the industry.

Say you are at the top of the funnel ( yea here we go ) and want to go to the

next step. Say a permanate layout.

 

So I'm not really to handy with all this wiring stuff. I work in front of a computer

all day.

Well I'll buy the legacy/ipad version.

Now fast track is nice. So I'll go with that and some command control

switches. So I put down the track and switches according to plan.

 

Now I plug the power supply to the wall, the power supply to the command

station. command station to the track, the little comm wire for TMCC to the

outside rail. Maybe a serial cord to the I pad and and Legacy base.

My engine is ID 1 out of the box. I set a few id's to the switches and I'm off

and running.

 

That was simplistic but in this instant gratification world we live in it fits.

I don't have to worry to much about the table hieght because I'll probably

never go under it. I won't have to buy all the wire and pull it back to a central

control panel because everything is on communitcation wire and or track power.

Unless you label everything, who remembers what all those wirtes were anyway?

Probably only you, God help the person who might have to trouble shoot a layout

he din't build.

 

This also would be a major advantage for modular clubs. I can tell you how many

times we have taken down the layout, put it back up, only to find we have

a problem. "Anyone have the volt meter ?  Anyone know how to use it ? "

To many wire connections, to many bumps to make your day go bad.

 

If done correctly a controler or system should be able to walk you through

a setup proceedure, or if the icons make sence a little logical thinking should

get you  going....

 

Just a few thoughts, I've scene other industries go this way.

and as my grand daughter told me one day.

 DEAL WIFF IT !

 

 

Just found out it does have the sensor but I'm not interested in the system.