PAUL ROMANO posted:Far and few between if you ever get at least what you paid, even if the item is still NIB.
Check out "sold" auctions for the Lionel vision 3-pack of tankers with sounds. $995 on the buy it now!
PAUL ROMANO posted:Far and few between if you ever get at least what you paid, even if the item is still NIB.
I've only had a problem w/ about four purchases. I contacted the sellers and explained what was wrong, each case the seller made good w/ either a full refund w/return shipping or reduced sale price giving a partial refund.
Here's some example of a few of what I've purchased in the last yr and a half. I purchased three nib northerns, 18001 RI, 18003 Lackawanna, 18007 SP prices approx. $200-$225 shipped each. Both CN budd sets 18506 & 18512, all four budd cars, LN, lightly used w/ boxes and papers for $260. shipped. These are just a few to mention that I've purchased.
I, myself, am guilty of over haggling. I was at the York train show looking at flatcars with military loads. One gentleman had a fat car with a helicopter on it. He only wanted $15. I said I would give him 13. He looked at me and said, "I'm not making any money on this thing anyway. Why do you do that?" Part of the game I guess – but maybe too far?? Well, I ended up paying the $15 and I feel like I still got a bargain.
If he bought it for more than $13, that's his problem. ALL OF US have sold stuff at a loss at some point.
This is one of many examples on this thread of why I realize attending train shows, in terms of looking to buy, is a waste of time. The sellers are not businessmen, just unreasonable old men with a jaded view of the world.
GREENRAIL posted:The price of any item will be determined by what any given individual is willing to pay for it. I am not afraid to haggle. I do so in a respective way. If someone gets upset then I will walk away. Plain and simple.
We encounter those who have a very optimistic sense of worth at York but if you really want to know what the price is "on the street" look on eBay and at the few large local shows that remain. The prices of used trains are VERY soft. Those items that do sell, are sold at bargain basement prices. Every day more and more train collections are hitting the market. The supply FAR outnumbers the demand.I buy only at the cheapest possible prices, never fail to find what I am looking for and it keeps getting better by the day. The days of high value toy trains are over.
I love the used market. The discounts on new old stock and like new stuff just keep getting better.I bought a legacy equiped jlc big boy 850 new. Vision line bigboy best price bto 1800. 9 years from now will you be able to get a vision line bigboy new for 900? I would bet yes. John
If it weren't for used trains, I'd have no trains at all. Like others have said you can get what you want at the price you want if you are patient
Menards posted:Our take on the used market is that we have observed many of our buildings going for 50% to double what we originally sold them for on "the bay." We think our customers are doing very well.
For example, the Camaraderie Bar & Grill, which is no longer in production and completely sold out, ranges from $125-$159 in the used market. I'd say these buildings have pretty good collectability!
-Mark the Menards Train Guy
From the Eagles 1976 album, "Hotel California," there's a "New Kid In Town," definitely applies to music, love, and especially trains.
enjoy your trains...
I noticed someone mentioning that they are afraid to buy on ebay.
Don't be afraid to buy items on ebay as ebay is very strict on maintaining a happy buyer. About a year ago, I started buying trains on ebay and have probably bought about 20 items.
Two items I had trouble with. The seller never sent the item so ebay refunded my money. The other item was a PFM sound system that said 'as is'. Bids were low so I got it for a good price and figured it was working as I have bought about 5 already for my layout. It didn't work but figured that was my lost but I thought I'd put in an evaluation on the seller in that even though it said 'as is' he should have checked it out. Ebay saw my evaluation and told me; unless it says for 'parts only', it better work. Ebay gave me about a week to resolve it with the seller. The seller wanted me to send it out and have it repaired at my expense. In the end, ebay refunded my money, plus they paid for the return shipping.
Some sellers put in 'no refunds, no returns' but ebay guarantees everything you buy.
For me ebay is top notch in protecting the buyer.
I find auction houses are also great. Initially, I thought, since the buyer pays 19-22% on the item, the items are going to be very costly. I adjust for the 20% markup and make my bid, accordingly. Also, since so many items are sold in just a day, a lot of stuff goes at a very good price. I put my bids in before the auction starts as, since each item sells in 45 seconds or less, unless you are at the auction, there's no way to bid quickly, online.
Two that I like are Stout's and Morphy. They have just 'train' auctions.
My view is, I put in a bid on what I think it is worth, if I get it, great, if not, there's more out there that will be for sale.
I'm in multiple hobbies and I was cleaning up my 'hobby shop' and found a lot of stuff that I'll never use and have had for 10 years. Most of it I mark at 25-50% of what I bought it for or present going price. In the last month, out of about 40 items, all but 6 so far, have sold in a few days. I view this as a hobby, not a business. I got my 'fun' out of it. If I really don't want it anymore, I put a price on it so it sells quickly. When I buy something, it's because I want it, not 'can I make a buck on it in the future', it's easier to sell things later. Remember, we really don't own anything, we're just caretakers of them, as, sooner or later, you will be gone!
PAUL ROMANO posted:Far and few between if you ever get at least what you paid, even if the item is still NIB.
I disagree with this statement on higher end items look at what David said about Lionel items selling well above what they were originally purchased for. It depends on what you are talking about not everything falls into this statement. I have not lost anything on the Lionel Vision line or Scale locomotives I bought in the last six or seven years. Look at what the higher end things sell for on auction. Maybe you are speaking of RK items or RTR items or just common things I can see that being true. I think it really depends on what you are selling.
I agree with Sam on the Evilbay thing. I've been buying and selling trains on Ebay for years. Mostly large scale up till now. The very few issues I have had, both as a seller were easily resolved to my and the buyers satisfaction. While I am not thrilled about the fees Ebay charges for selling, it's still far better than the old days of placing ads in the newspaper.
Dennis LaGrua posted:... Every day more and more train collections are hitting the market. The supply FAR outnumbers the demand.I buy only at the cheapest possible prices, never fail to find what I am looking for and it keeps getting better by the day. The days of high value toy trains are over.
Except of course for the new stuff Lionel pumps out year after year. 
Which is precisely why I'm so puzzled that as many folks as we hear are tripping over themselves pre-ordering new stuff. 
I was part of that crowd too up until recently, but this year I really cut back on pre-ordering considerably. There's just too much of a premium to be paid when buying brand new product arriving off the boats nowadays.
Just last night I was back on Sidetrack Hobbies' website, and I'm forever amazed at the GREAT deals they continue to have on brand new trains that have sat in inventory for more than a year or two. It's like going on a shopping spree. Don't get me wrong... You can still spend lots of money, but your money stretches so much further there. These are the kinds of deals folks thought would be history in the BTO era, but that hasn't been the case at all. 
Case in point: Want a Lionel Heavy Mikado (BTO)? Sidetrack has 'em for $806. Those little gems retailed for $1299 MSRP (which we knew was a joke even on a good day), and some of the big dealers still have them for $940 (2014 models) and $1100 (2015 models). So either way, $806 is a great deal. Certainly not chump change for a locomotive, but it's the best price I've seen thus far.
There's a small contingent of folks here who get all up in arms when I come down on Lionel so harshly for their current pricing of new stuff. But let's get something perfectly straight here. Nobody -- and I mean nobody -- is criticizing enthusiasts for spending their money however they want. What folks spend is their own personal business. But I have absolutely no problem taking Lionel to task on their latest pricing, because the newly catalog'd stuff is so over-priced compared to items that are -- in some cases -- not even two years old yet. I think those Heavy Mikados that Sidetrack has for $806 were in one of the 2014 catalogs, but they arrived Stateside more recently than that.
The next group of locomotives that we'll likely see some downward price movement on in coming months will be the ES44's (in ABS) currently above $550 and the non-articulated steamers currently above $1250 (like the ESE Hudsons) as they collect dust on dealer shelves. Yet one dealer (a forum sponsor) is pushing his prices upward toward MSRP on these locomotives 
, and he's also telling us that the newly catalog'd GS-4 Daylights ($1699 MSRP, $1400 street-price) were some of the more popular 2016 pre-orders. Just crazy! 
Nonetheless, I think I'll take my chances on what happens AFTER delivery of those GS-4's, since Lionel is making 4 of them. I'll try not to be too picky in 9-12 months. 
And if they sell out, I still have my Daylight Cab-Forward (that I paid much less for just two Decembers ago) to head-up a nice string of Lionel 18" aluminum Daylight passenger cars.
I realize this thread is about the "used train market". But I think a lot of what's been said here about haggling can be applied equally to "negotiating" the purchase of some of the newer items, since their prices are so volatile after products arrive Stateside.
The line between "new" and "slightly used" is also becoming much harder to ignore. For whatever reason, we're seeing stuff pop up on the secondary market fairly quickly these days with 15- to 30-minutes of run-time on a locomotive. Last week we saw a Legacy Cab-Forward (black) sell on the forum for $950. 
And I was doing everything I could to NOT buy it! 
That's a GREAT price for an articulated locomotive, when we consider the latest round of pre-order pricing... which makes Lionel's new pricing even tougher to understand (and stomach).
David
i think that there is a lot of product on the market, especially as the older stuff becomes more difficult to work on. but I also think that there is wide fluctuation in the prices of the same item. i recently bought two identical trollies (Lionel 60) both worked, no box and had instructions. One was 70 and the other was 30-. However the price for good well cared and boxed stuff is pretty solid. However I've never been to a train show and I only buy three times a year.
The line between "new" and "slightly used" is also becoming much harder to ignore. For whatever reason, we're seeing stuff pop up on the secondary market fairly quickly these days with 15- to 30-minutes of run-time on a locomotive. Last week we saw a Legacy Cab-Forward (black) sell on the forum for $950. And I was doing everything I could to NOT buy it! That's a GREAT price for an articulated locomotive, when we consider the latest round of pre-order pricing... which makes the new pricing even tougher to understand (and stomach).
Are you forgetting that the slightly used stuff has no warrantee?
C W Burfle posted:...
Are you forgetting that the slightly used stuff has no warrantee?
No. Did you see who the seller was? I would buy from him without thinking twice about it.
There are still some good deals at the train meets, you hafta really scan the tables and not just be looking for a specific item. Back in Jan the first time in about 15 yrs I went to a train meet. I bought these lightly used excl condition Lionel Madison cars 19011, 15, 16, 17, & 18 for $225.
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Trussman posted:... I bought these lightly used excl condition Lionel Madison cars 19011, 15, 16, 17, & 18 for $225.
Those are really nice 15" Madison cars -- reminiscent of the cars that ran on the "subway lines" of Lionel's legendary 1949 Showroom Layout behind GG-1's (traditional size -- not the larger scale-size). When Lionel re-issued the Lionel Lines Madison cars in the 1990's, the add-on baggage car was new to the re-issue and was reportedly not produced in the same quantities as the other 4 cars. So it's great that you acquired a 5-car set in one shot.
Those Madision cars, along with the semi-scale phenolic body freight cars, and the Lackawanna 4-car MU set -- all circa 1990-ish -- are some of the last remaining Lionel cars from that era still on my roster. They are sentimental favorites. 
David
It is not the "take"; it is to "not get taken"....
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Trussman posted:... I bought these lightly used excl condition Lionel Madison cars 19011, 15, 16, 17, & 18 for $225.
Those are really nice 15" Madison cars -- reminiscent of the cars that ran on the "subway lines" of Lionel's legendary 1949 Showroom Layout behind GG-1's (traditional size -- not the larger scale-size). When Lionel re-issued the Lionel Lines Madison cars in the 1990's, the add-on baggage car was new to the re-issue and was reportedly not produced in the same quantities as the other 4 cars. So it's great that you acquired a 5-car set in one shot.
Those Madision cars, along with the semi-scale phenolic body freight cars, and the Lackawanna 4-car MU set -- all circa 1990-ish -- are some of the last remaining Lionel cars from that era still on my roster. They are sentimental favorites.
David
Thanks Dave,
I also have the SP Madison cars 19019, 23, 24, 25 & 26, I have 2 of 19019 baggage cars.
I remember when the 19011 baggage car came out. I don't know if it's true, but I heard that there were a lot of the 19011 baggage cars sent back because the phenolic bodies cracked. If that's true, then that could be the reason there's not as many.
Menards posted:Our take on the used market is that we have observed many of our buildings going for 50% to double what we originally sold them for on "the bay." We think our customers are doing very well.
For example, the Camaraderie Bar & Grill, which is no longer in production and completely sold out, ranges from $125-$159 in the used market. I'd say these buildings have pretty good collectability!
-Mark the Menards Train Guy
Hard to believe but I have no reason to doubt you. Every other building, even the most detailed, that I have is worth, at best 40% or so of its the value. What makes these so special? Not being sarcastic, just asking.
