What do you Prefer Original Williams or WBB?

The F7's are nice except for that square front end.  How they ever came up with that design.  Other than that, I have both, and I prefer them over all the Big named producers by far.

Because that's the way it was designed by Auburn Model Trains, the originators of the tooling back in the 1950's.

Image purloined from this thread.

Rusty

RR2,

   Little early to tell yet about the quality of the WBB line, however my old Williams

original engines all run perfect even after 40 years of hard child abuse.  IMO the original Williams big Yellow & Gray UP City of San Fran, is one of the best Diesel Passenger Trains ever built, I did have a True Blast II horn put in her however.  My original Williams GG-1 & E44 still run perfect after all these years, WBB has a lot to live up to, we will see how it all plays out after 30-40 years of running their product.

PCRR/Dave 

I perfer the williams made by bachmann hands down! Also we have wwb diesel engines running at a T&L hotdog. The club services it every saturday. They run 8 to 9 hours a day and seven days a week. They are still running well. Here is a pic of my williams B&O F7A dummy engine. I replaced the shell do to pouring alcohol on the old shell by mistake and got new shell the number boards light up.      

Chessie1971,

    Engineering reasoning for your decision please? 

PCRR/Dave

So far I prefer the old Williams before Bachmann, as there was more selection and better pricing. Williams had more roadnames then Bachmann.

The only new items by WBB that I like is the E Z Street stuff.

Lee Fritz

Lee i'm getting tired of you moaning about williams prices . I bought a orignal williams GP38 back in 2004 and i paid 139.00 for it off of dealer . I bought a couple williams by bachmann engines just in a year or two. I paid 140.00 for B&O GP9 and B&O NW-2  120.00 both off of dealers and bought semi-scale B&O passenger car set off another dealer for 99.00 and are very nice cars better then what williams made i seen some of there  passengers cars. You could not pay me take them. Also williams phasing stuff out the market is flooded plus they may come back with better detail like the GP30 also i can get a williams GP30 for 215.00.  Pricing  has been explained how many times on here and why williams dropping some items.     

I own five sets of F7 and F3 diesels by WBB? Love them all. The reason the WBB F7 bodies sit high is because there is not enough flywheel clearance due to the F7 thick flywheel. These can be lowered down to look correct but you have to CAREFULLY cut reliefs in the roof for the flywheels.

Rob

At this point, hands down Old Williams! Although I may be interested in the new 44 tonner, I have enough older stuff to last two lifetimes!

The old Williams may have had a better selection of road names but I think if you check around to include LHS's you can find great prices.  Arnies out here in So Cal doesn't carry WBB but they will order. They charge 199.00 for a set of F-3's or F-7's and they can't be the only LHS that sells them at an acceptable price.

 If you ask me E-Z streets is a way over priced item for what you get.  To me and I could be wrong so slap me around if I am is a glorified slot car set.

In addition to highly durable quality, original Williams had some coups, like the brass steam they offered.  WBB only has the 4-6-0, and another, fantasized, did not materialize. So I prefer the old.

Both are good.......newer Williams and WbB units have some benefits.

Some older Williams units have bare metal stamped chassis that show and I feel the need to remove and paint. Some older units also have plastic truck side frames and odd pick up rollers I don't like. But overall.....I have them all!!!

IMO, the quality of the original American made Williams products were far better than what we have today. I have a Lackawanna FM with a pair of Pittman instrument grade US made motors in it. it also has magnet wheels. That engine is built like a tank and runs perfect 37 years later.If you ever want to see a conventional engine creep along slow that engine will do it.  I only have one  WBB engine- a PRR F7.  It runs ok but uses cheap Chinese toy motors. When compared to early Jerry Williams product it isn't even close.

I have gotten some deals on Williams engines through the years. Back when Williams had independent dealers I bought a set of six Santa Fe 'El Capitan' passenger cars with three F-7 diesel engines(one powered A unit and one non powered A and a B unit with sound) for $400.00.

Another engine that I got a good deal on was a powered Reading Lines GP-9 with True Blast 2 for $125.00. Was able to get two Pennsylvania GP-9's for $200.00, one powered and one unpowered and the unpowered had just a horn.

Also bought a Pennsylvania S-2 with True Blast 2 for $200.00.

Bought these from an independent dealer near Stuart FL.

I have bought a couple of GP-38's from internet stores, paid $150.00 for a Reading Lines with True Blast 2, and paid $100.00 for a matching non powered GP-38 in Reading Lines.

Bought a Pennsylvania SD-45 for $65.00 on ebay one time, the engine needed some weight added to it and the plastic non-flanged wheels replaced with metal wheels on the truck assembly, but otherwise ran great for what I paid for it.

Bought a shark B unit at a train show one time for $25.00 and I added a True Blast 2 unit to it along with a small wiring harness.

Now I have three powered SD-45's,  two GP-38's(one powered and one unpowered), a GP-9, six F-7's (three powered and three unpowered).

Lee Fritz

You can say what you want about Williams Trains but I for one love them. I have 2 sets of GP-38"s and 2 sets of GP9's sets being powered and dummy. They run great and are easy to fix and take apart. I bought a powered GP9 new in a sealed box at Wheaton train show for 50 bucks, then bought a dummy on the bay for 40. I then sold the two different shells for 50. Bought 2 new Santa Fe shells from Bauchman for 60. repainted the frame yellow and trucks silver. Total investment 100 bucks for a very nice set. All Williams needs now is sound in there GP's. Wish they made SD40's, these are my favorite.  

I like the older Williams as they are easy to work on or do some simple changes to. I took out the circuit boards on two of my powered F-7's and installed bridge rectifiers, they run a bit stronger then with the circuit board. I lost direction control but I am not concerned with that as I wanted an engine combination that would go the direction I wanted when the power was applied rather then cycle through it. 

Lee Fritz

Dennis,

    From an engineering stand point you and I agree 100%, early Williams trains maybe some of the highest quality ever made, and right here in the USA.  I have 3 big engines from that era, and the engineering and quality control on them makes them perfect runners even after 40 years on the tracks.  As far as quality USA workmanship in our hobby goes, these early Williams Engines are at the very top of the list, and for a price that the middle income family could afford to pay at that time. 

PCRR/Dave

I have numerous Williams (Samhongsa) brass steamers from the 1980's/90's - wonderful. I have a few Williams scale diesels (FA/FB; F-3; PA-1; E-8); a couple of the interesting but flawed early (non-Samhongsa) brass locos, including the handsome brass Baldwin Sharks (wrong trucks, yes). I have the 4-6-0, re-decorated. I am certainly not an expert on later Williams, but may I ask:

When were Williams locos ever made in the US? Every one of the locos mentioned above

were made in Korea or China. Says so. Except for some very early tinplate reproductions,

maybe, I know of no Williams locos made in the US.

Enlighten me.

I've been in tinplate as long as I can remember. I worked on many of the original pieces as they were brought into my shop. They were simple in construction. So much so that most were almost in kit form requiring minor assembly. The very early pieces had no flywheels or E-units. These were the ones that presented the most problems for inexperienced operators.

D500,

You are correct about none being made in USA. Even the early Wms tinplate repros used parts from all over Asia and the USA. These were however assembled at Wms Shop.

Pappy,

   You are correct sir, and if these Williams engines are not considered made in the USA, then there are no USA made automobiles sense 1959 or before.   We always considered these early Williams and early Weaver engines USA made, even with foreign parts.  They were in fact  engineered, built/assembled and final Quality Controlled, here in the USA, by American workers.  Would be real hard to say they were foreign made when 85% of the work was done here in the USA.  People have been arguing about this forever, however.  IMO they are American made, opinions vary however.

PCRR/Dave

I have the following Williams:  PA A-B-A [2 sets], Shark A-B-B-A, SD-45 powered/dummy, U-33 powered dummy, EP-5 powered/dummy, FA A-B-A, E-7 A-A, F-7 A-B-A, Budd Car set of 3.  All are pre-WBB. Never had a problem.  Also have 3 Williams 15 inch aluminum sets , and one Madison set.  What is amazing is that all of the comparable current WBB stuff is selling for substantially less than I paid years ago when I bought everything.   Would you believe that I paid $699 for the D & H PA A-B-A set with Tru Sounds, close to 20 years ago?  I subsequently bought the EL set for $325 from Trainworld a few years later.  I have over $500 into the Shark set.  I look at the current WBB mail order prices and can cry.

Williams Golden Memories , especially the F3 ABA sets.  Cast frames, close coupling, best postwar detail, and ease of ERR installation. MY sets are NH, TS, and IC.  The WBB E7's are ok, I have a few sets, but it's just not the same IMHO.  RICH