2-10-10-2 Arrival (and problems)

That won't fit under the tree!!

Wow, that paint scheme is fantastic 🤤

Hmmm, I bet I know what the whistle on the vl Class a will sound like.

Also interesting, that sounds like a new/fresh hooter whistle for Lionel. Wonder where that came from?...hmm.

That loco is amazing! Hats off to Lionel. Drop dead gorgeous! Think I will stay away from it as I couldn't deal with having to find someone on my own to repair it when the warranty runs out.

I would think if they have it in the store it shipped. Also note the price tag riding on top of the Tinder.

I hope it shipped. That would be pretty cool to get it soon. Although I have no curves big enough to run it at the moment.

Nassau Hobby has them in stock.

My mistake, I thought you were debating whether Lionel had shipped them to the stores.

Nah haha @shasta I deduced that they came across the ocean. It was the remaining trip to my porch that I was curious about

Just another reminder of how strong the 2021 Catalog was.  It scares me to think of the financial shape I would be in without my "one loco / year" limit.

Got mine.

@Stephen Johnson posted:

Just another reminder of how strong the 2021 Catalog was.  It scares me to think of the financial shape I would be in without my "one loco / year" limit.

It beat my wallet up but it was worth it for sentimental reasons.

@laz1957 posted:

Got mine.

Well spill the beans! How is it?! Im hoping mine shows up Monday.

I have the original VL version I love it.

BILLO4014

  I just ordered it coming next week. Can’t wait.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

I have the original VL version I love it.

I know it was well received. I hope they nail it this time too. It's such an interesting looking locomotive because of the way the boiler looks. I guess it looks undersized to me.

@laz1957 posted:

BILLO4014

  I just ordered it coming next week. Can’t wait.

Ohh I thought you meant yours arrived.

@BillYo414 posted:

I know it was well received. I hope they nail it this time too. It's such an interesting looking locomotive because of the way the boiler looks. I guess it looks undersized to me.

Ohh I thought you meant yours arrived.

Its was undersized it was two regular 2-10-2's hob cobbled together and it was a huge failure for SF so much so alot of them were turned back into regular 2 -10-2's.

Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of consists was that engine designed to pull?

Peter

@Putnam Division posted:

Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of consists was that engine designed to pull?

Peter

It was an unsuccessful freight locomotive.  The were eventually rebuilt into 2-10-2's between 1915-1918.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

It was an unsuccessful freight locomotive.  The were eventually rebuilt into 2-10-2's between 1915-1918.

Rusty

Noted, thank you.........

Peter

@Rusty Traque posted:

It was an unsuccessful freight locomotive.  The were eventually rebuilt into 2-10-2's between 1915-1918.

Rusty

@Putnam Division posted:

Noted, thank you.........

Peter

Peter - The Virginian Railway had 10 of these locos built for them in 1918.  They ran out of steam quickly and could only be used as helper locomotives on a short but steep grade. The AE class could take a big train from Mullins to Roanoke but they were much slower than a Norfolk & Western class Y-6 or any simple articulated. The AE class pretty much was limited to 20 mph.  In the early 1920s, the Virginia electrified the division the Class AE was designed for. The "Square Head" electric locomotives could move similar sized trains at 25 miles per hour. The AEs were too slow for the relatively level Roanoke to Victoria division, and being a 2-10-10-2 were to long for the tight curves of the branch lines to the coal mines, so they were used as heavy-duty shunters at the Sewell Point coal pier, from 1925 to the late 1940s.

-Greg

Didn't the Virginian version have a bigger boiler? I thought it looked different. It looks a lot beefier.

@Greg Houser posted:

Peter - The Virginian Railway had 10 of these locos built for them in 1918.

-Greg

@BillYo414 posted:

Didn't the Virginian version have a bigger boiler? I thought it looked different. It looks a lot beefier.

While both roads had 2-10-10-2's, the wheel arrangement was the only common factor.

The Virginian locomotives weighed about 16,000 pounds more, had larger cylinders and about 26,000 pounds more in tractive effort than the Santa Fe's.  Plus the Virginian 2-10-10-2's were built in 1918, the same year the last of the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's were rebuilt into 2-10-2's.

Rusty

Gotcha. I think I misunderstood the pages I skimmed. I thought they were all built at the same time but with certain design tweaks.

I just got the notification that mine has shipped. So that's exciting! It's less exciting that I tore most of the 4x8 test layout down when I painted the ceiling

Looking forward to receiving the "Black Bonnet" #3005. I know it's a fantasy scheme, but what the heck it's all in fun. I just hope my wife doesn't know what I $$ ;~)

@Ford33 posted:

Looking forward to receiving the "Black Bonnet" #3005. I know it's a fantasy scheme, but what the heck it's all in fun. I just hope my wife doesn't know what I $$ ;~)

When you receive it, would be kind enough to share a video/ photo of it?

@Ford33 I got the blacked out version but man those "fantasy" schemes are SHARP. I kind of regret my choice haha

Wow!!!!!!  That was an extremely impressive display.

George

BillYo, I actually ordered the #3009 like you did, which looks the most realistic of the 4. Somehow my kid brain and the iconic bonnet took over and I switched. They all look good, it's a tough call.

@G3750 can't wait to see it pull coal drags!

@Ford33 yeah a friend tried to talk me into buying a fantasy scheme when I preordered but I kind of expected them to look cartoonish in real life. I was very wrong haha

I got a call on Monday that #3009 came in to my LTS. Eric of Eric's Trains popped a video of his #3001 at Legacy Station. In that video they also popped #3009 on the rails for a test run. I'm so glad I went with #3009 because of the blackened drivers.

I love the look of the blackened drivers. I hope to weather this thing one day and I think the blackened drivers will look great in the meantime.

Just picked up my black bonnet today, this thing is gorgeous in person

Man that is such a nice paint scheme!! Looks great!! How's it run?

@BillYo414 posted:

Man that is such a nice paint scheme!! Looks great!! How's it run?

Fantastic, it's a lumbering giant and definitely likes to run at lower speeds.

@SB30 posted:

Fantastic, it's a lumbering giant and definitely likes to run at lower speeds.

Awesome. Allegedly, mine arrives tomorrow. I don't have any 0-72 loops at the moment. Might just power it up on a straight away I guess.

@SB30 posted:

Fantastic, it's a lumbering giant and definitely likes to run at lower speeds.

Just like real life!

@SB30 posted:

Just picked up my black bonnet today, this thing is gorgeous in person

Wow! That thing is gorgeous! My Black Bonnet arrives tomorrow.

It appears Lionel knocked it out of the park on this Vision offering.

@N'awlins posted:

Wow! That thing is gorgeous! My Black Bonnet arrives tomorrow.

It appears Lionel knocked it out of the park on this Vision offering.

It's very glossy, almost like it's after a restoration version if there ever would've been one. I think some nice heavyweight Santa Fe passenger cars and a fantasy excursion train are in the works for this

@SB30 posted:

It's very glossy, almost like it's after a restoration version if there ever would've been one. I think some nice heavyweight Santa Fe passenger cars and a fantasy excursion train are in the works for this

Without a doubt! RBP trains has a Black Bonnet video and he pairs his BB Northern with some MTH plated streamliners and it looks super sharp.

@Rusty Traque posted:

It was an unsuccessful freight locomotive.  The were eventually rebuilt into 2-10-2's between 1915-1918.

Rusty

So...to my mind, this is kind of an odd choice, is it not? Seems like a lot of effort,$$, etc on Lionel's part to tool up and offer a model of "an unsuccessful freight locomotive"...🤔

Maybe some day they will put together a nice, "short line" type of steam engine, like a low-drivered 2-8-0 or something...

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

So...to my mind, this is kind of an odd choice, is it not? Seems like a lot of effort,$$, etc on Lionel's part to tool up and offer a model of "an unsuccessful freight locomotive"...🤔

Yes, but that's the beauty of this hobby. To bring cool engines like this back to life that were expiramental or lost to history. Who cares how successful or unsuccessful it was in real life. You see an engine like this and immediately it catches your attention

Lionel has done several one-off engines, so nothing new here.  A lot of folks like collecting engines from different eras, especially unique ones like this.  While less successful than Virginia’s 2-10-10-2, this was probably the better choice.

For me, a fantasy scheme works best for this engine.  Why not use it with matching lightweight passenger cars for an excursion train on your modern era layout?

The Erie Triplex was a failure in real life. It has to be one of the coolest model train engines ever produced. Multiple runs in multiple scales from MTH. Boy if Lionel ever got a hold of the molds for it and did a Legacy version. There would be a line to buy them.

@Dave_C posted:

The Erie Triplex was a failure in real life. It has to be one of the coolest model train engines ever produced. Multiple runs in multiple scales from MTH. Boy if Lionel ever got a hold of the molds for it and did a Legacy version. There would be a line to buy them.

It might have the most pre orders of any vision line or high end legacy steam engine ever, I'd definitely get one

I will admit that a great number of years ago before O Scale started getting into scale locomotives, I did see an article in one of those other publications on this engine. I fell in love with it right from the get go probably because it was something I'd never seen before.

To further this though, yeah the engine was an overall bust in the end. As stated before on numerous occasions, there are quite a few engines that fall into that category but there is a want for these things regardless of the cold hard truth. To put this further into perspective, musicians that a good majority of people enjoy seem to fall right into this as well. There are a number of them that are considered one hit wonders or not even that, but we love them and listen to them.

Any way the pie is sliced, it is still going to get eaten. Sometimes there are bigger slices, other times they are small. There's always some kind of draw.

@SB30 posted:

It's very glossy, almost like it's after a restoration version if there ever would've been one. I think some nice heavyweight Santa Fe passenger cars and a fantasy excursion train are in the works for this

I'm not too concerned if mine is glossy. I intend to weather it one day anyway.

I think scale models of engines that failed in real life are cool. I also think articulated steamers get more attention because you can fit more stuff in them. There is usually a lot of real estate in the boiler for smoke units and electronics of all types.

I just received mine and it is a beauty!   I got the 3001 instead of the true fantasy schemes, in part because I wanted the engine that starred in the 1915 silent film “Hazards of Helen: The Leap from the Water Tower.”  If you haven’t seen it, it’s available on Youtube.   Some very nice footage of the 3001 pulling a short train.  

One TINY little, easily avoided problem, is the super cool cow catcher on the back of the tender often decouples cars that have thumb tack couplers.  The cow catcher is just long enough and at just the right height.  No big deal; the first car after the tender just has to have no thumb tack.  But it made me think there was something wrong with the coupler on my $2200 engine when it first happened!  

@Strummer posted:

So...to my mind, this is kind of an odd choice, is it not? Seems like a lot of effort,$$, etc on Lionel's part to tool up and offer a model of "an unsuccessful freight locomotive"...🤔

Mark in Oregon

I believe these were originally produced as Lionels second VL locomotive. The first was the all new Pennsy cc2 0-8-8-0 back in 2009.

At the time Lionel was describing vision line as unique never done before locos with all the added " bells (swinging) and smoking whistles and everything else.

Over time the VL has morphed into rehashes of previous run "existing tooling"locomotives with added goodies.

I think Lionel realized they could market anything with the VL label after the VL Hudson ,which as cool as it is. Is a poorly detailed model due to the antiquated tooling. Having said that. These hudsons regularly get over msrp on the secondary market.

While out of my price range. I prefer the stigma of the really unique first vl models.

@SB30 posted:

It's very glossy, almost like it's after a restoration version if there ever would've been one. I think some nice heavyweight Santa Fe passenger cars and a fantasy excursion train are in the works for this

Eye candy for sure. Definitely a fantasy piece, so why not a fantasy passenger train. Not in the era, but I ordered 2 of these from Pats trains.. Maybe he could do some fantasy passenger cars. Of course I've already blown my train budget for a few years

@SuperChief posted:

Just like real life!

Who's gonna be the first to saw theirs in half and make two decapods?......just like real life...

@Strummer posted:

So...to my mind, this is kind of an odd choice, is it not? Seems like a lot of effort,$$, etc on Lionel's part to tool up and offer a model of "an unsuccessful freight locomotive"...🤔

Maybe some day they will put together a nice, "short line" type of steam engine, like a low-drivered 2-8-0 or something...

Mark in Oregon

Apparently, it's all Neil Youngs fault. ;~)

@Ford33 posted:

Apparently, it's all Neil Youngs fault. ;~)

I did not know ol' Neil was a 2-10-10-2 fan...I know he likes Martins 🎸...🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

So...to my mind, this is kind of an odd choice, is it not? Seems like a lot of effort,$$, etc on Lionel's part to tool up and offer a model of "an unsuccessful freight locomotive"...🤔

Maybe some day they will put together a nice, "short line" type of steam engine, like a low-drivered 2-8-0 or something...

Mark in Oregon

Lionel moves in mysterious ways...  Look at how many Pennsy Turbines Lionel sold over the decades, an unsuccessful locomotive that was scrapped after six years.

Rusty

Here are my pics of the new 2-10-10-2.  This is a beauty indeed.  The only problem I had was the yellow step had broke off and boiler plate feel off.  A little glue and back in business.  Be careful with this engine, lots o small parts. I do love the HOOTER, not that kind but the whistle.😀

I would have got the one with the yellow strip in retrospect.

Thanks for the heads up on the small parts!

Well it did actually arrive today. So here it is on my parents kitchen counter.

It's a pretty awesome locomotive! Definitely need some lubrication on the tender unless it's normal for the wheels to make a noise when you spin them. Looks like the front of the locomotive is lubed pretty good though. My paint job isn't overly glossy. I love the blackened wheels and whatnot though. I was in a hurry so I couldn't get a good cab pic but I should have some time later on to post more pics. The sand domes actually come off pretty easy if you grab the sides of it instead of trying to flip it up with your fingernail. I can't wait to actually run it! I'll be quite pleased with this if it's electronically functional.

Hopefully these photos post right! I'm doing this from my phone.

Quick pic

I don't know what magic they used for the firebox but it looks amazing. I have no power to this engine in the attached photos. Pretty wild stuff.

I also noticed a piece of plastic under the plate that sits on the tender from the cab (I can't think of the real name). That's a nice touch.

@BillYo414 posted:

I don't know what magic they used for the firebox but it looks amazing. I have no power to this engine in the attached photos. Pretty wild stuff.

I also noticed a piece of plastic under the plate that sits on the tender from the cab (I can't think of the real name). That's a nice touch.

Very nice! I believe the term you are looking for is tender deck plate.

@Rusty Traque posted:

Lionel moves in mysterious ways...  Look at how many Pennsy Turbines Lionel sold over the decades, an unsuccessful locomotive that was scrapped after six years.

Rusty

The S2 was not scrapped for purely operational reasons.  The S2 was competitive on longer routes where it could maintain speed (above 40mph), plus it was a crowd pleaser.  Its high appetite at low speeds could have been solved if it were not for the arrival of diesels.  It was scrapped because of turbine damage in 1949, and to the Pennsy's bean counters it did not make since to fix it.

Why did Lionel decide to make it?  Like the 2-10-10-2, it is an awesome locomotive.

A little running session today.

Here's my 3001 I just got.  Ignore the mess in the background layout is still a WIP. 

Very beautiful model, the blow down and whistle are strong smokers, and the bell looks amazing swinging, I love the stereo sounds and the detail is top notch!

I like that this is not only a strange obscure engine, but it also is from the early 1910s which most of the o gauge engines (not all) today come from the 20s-50s so it's also unique in that respect

@BillYo414 posted:

I don't know what magic they used for the firebox but it looks amazing. I have no power to this engine in the attached photos. Pretty wild stuff.

I also noticed a piece of plastic under the plate that sits on the tender from the cab (I can't think of the real name). That's a nice touch.

Yeah, the deck plate has been something that has been improved quite a bit. The CCII Niagara's one was diecast, which broke as easily as snapping a toothpick. Since then many improvents have come about, the plastic to cut out(hopefully) metal on metal rubbing. I don't remember if Lionel was the first to do that or not as my first time seeing it was a video on Eric's Trains a good number of years ago(maybe VL Hudson).

Great looking locomotive, that much is sure. Be a bit before I get mine even though it is in. I have a few other engines and such ahead of that which must come home first. 😊

Thanks for the videos! I can't wait to run mine. When would blowdown realistically be used in real life?

I'm glad the deck plate is improve and I'm glad it's there in general. The gap has always bugged me even though I hardly notice it once the train is moving.

Why can't people turn the phone sideways and shoot in landscape to make videos better???????????

@SuperChief posted:

A little running session today.

WOW!

Apologies for the phone not being in landscape mode. I usually do this, but with holding the legacy remote in my right hand trying to access the features and my phone on my left hand its difficult to get landscape and keep the phone from shifting when I press and release the record button. I made the video above initially for only myself and originally did not intend to post on ogr forum which explains the lack of quality.

Aside from that have you guys opened up the boiler front and seen that there was actual detail in there? I can get photos, but its cool to see!!

@BillYo414 I believe what a steam "blow down" is usually for is to release steam from the boiler at the end of the run before cleaning the firebox and putting the engine to sleep.  I'm not sure if this blowdown is for that or if it might be for releasing condensation from the boiler similar to a cylinder cock.  I bet the steam experts here will probably weigh in much better than I!

Best,

Gino Fabbricante

I knew it cleaned out the boiler but I wasn't sure if when they did it @Gino Fabbricante. It looks like it works very well on this model! Thank you for posting the video!

@BillYo414 posted:

I knew it cleaned out the boiler but I wasn't sure if when they did it @Gino Fabbricante. It looks like it works very well on this model! Thank you for posting the video!

How often depends on the RR and who you ask. Blowing down is used to release scale from the mud ring and any other foreign substances. On Live steam models, this would also serve as a way to drop the boiler pressure and “shut down” the locomotive. On the prototype they would instead drop the fire, build a small warming fire (to keep some boiler pressure), and build a new fire for when the locomotive is called for a train.
Onto how often they blowdown. It usually is done after the locomotive is steamed for the day. Other times, it is done at clearings (bridges, fields, etc.) or certain locations. For the Santa Fe, and all other RRs, engineers would blowdown for how ever many miles traveled. Here is a great video of a SF engineer driving a 3460 class that mentions their blowdown procedure.

@Trainmaster04

Thanks for sharing that video!  Its easy to romanticize steam and forget how complicated the operation can really be.  Although,  a beast that size pounding away at 93 mph would be a sight to see!

@Trainmaster04 posted:

How often depends on the RR and who you ask. Blowing down is used to release scale from the mud ring and any other foreign substances. On Live steam models, this would also serve as a way to drop the boiler pressure and “shut down” the locomotive. On the prototype they would instead drop the fire, build a small warming fire (to keep some boiler pressure), and build a new fire for when the locomotive is called for a train.
Onto how often they blowdown. It usually is done after the locomotive is steamed for the day. Other times, it is done at clearings (bridges, fields, etc.) or certain locations. For the Santa Fe, and all other RRs, engineers would blowdown for how ever many miles traveled. Here is a great video of a SF engineer driving a 3460 class that mentions their blowdown procedure.

I learned a lot from this video - I never realized that the crew was so active every minute.

I just pull the lever to make 'em go.

Thanks for sharing Trainmaster04!

@jhz563 posted:

@Trainmaster04

Thanks for sharing that video!  Its easy to romanticize steam and forget how complicated the operation can really be.  Although,  a beast that size pounding away at 93 mph would be a sight to see!

Pretty awesome video!

I'm looking at this engine and wondering what half the pipes and stuff are even for. I'm considering posting a topic with lots of arrows asking what all this stuff is. I get the basic idea of how a steamer works. But I don't know what all this extra stuff is.

Not that I broke anything, but when does Lionel post the exploded parts diagram stuff to the website? I don't want to take mine apart before warranty ends but I'm curious to see the innards of the locomotive. Sometimes the exploded parts view gives an idea of orientation inside.

UPS just dropped mine off. Here’s hoping shipping didn’t mess anything up. I’ll post photos/videos once I get it out.

@BillYo414 posted:

Not that I broke anything, but when does Lionel post the exploded parts diagram stuff to the website? I don't want to take mine apart before warranty ends but I'm curious to see the innards of the locomotive. Sometimes the exploded parts view gives an idea of orientation inside.

Your best bet would probably use the original 2-10-10-2 parts view for now.
https://www.lionelsupport.com/...9b-a360-659e0d29ff64

I hope it's good @Trainmaster04. And thanks! I didn't think of that.

@BillYo414 posted:

I hope it's good @Trainmaster04. And thanks! I didn't think of that.

Happy to help! Unfortunately, all is not well. I got the engine on the tracks and overall, it is stunning on the outside! On the inside, well. The board fried after a couple of minutes into its break in run. In the video you can see it smokes a tone, runs smoothly, and then dies at the end. I got close to the locomotive and I smelt the dreaded fried electronic smell.

Wow, I'm really sorry man I mean it's great it's under warranty but that the same time, that's irritating. Any idea what caused it? Or what can cause this sort of thing? Just a wire or board coming in contact with the shell?

@BillYo414 posted:

Wow, I'm really sorry man I mean it's great it's under warranty but that the same time, that's irritating. Any idea what caused it? Or what can cause this sort of thing? Just a wire or board coming in contact with the shell?

Thanks for your sympathy. My best bet would be a bad smoke unit board that took in too much power and subsequently fried itself. The last time this happened it was a smoke unit as well.

That's rough man @Trainmaster04 I feel for you. You ever send anything back under warranty before?

I gotta admit, I'm inclined to pop mine open and check all the wires and whatnot. I just hate to void the warranty in case something does go wrong.

@BillYo414 posted:

That's rough man @Trainmaster04 I feel for you. You ever send anything back under warranty before?

I gotta admit, I'm inclined to pop mine open and check all the wires and whatnot. I just hate to void the warranty in case something does go wrong.

Many times and each time has been a different story. Sometimes it goes fine and other times it is difficult. With all of them, it was all time-consuming. I wouldn't blame you if you did but it is a hard gamble.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Many times and each time has been a different story. Sometimes it goes fine and other times it is difficult. With all of them, it was all time-consuming. I wouldn't blame you if you did but it is a hard gamble.

Well at least you know what to expect I suppose.

My long term goal is to be decent at electronics and be able to hold my own. I have done some real minor repairs and and an ERR upgrade. I feel like I could repair it if I could get parts. I don't know. I'll think it over while I work on getting the layout built.

Oh man, that is terrible.

Well, that right there is incredible!

Update on my 2-10-10-2. I called Nassau, who I preordered it through, for a replacement engine. They said they had no more due to two other people called with similar complaints. Hopefully this will not be a continuous problem. Onto calling Lionel and thankfully I was able to make some headway. They were able give me an RA number and start the usual process of getting fixed. The only problem is their turn around time is 4-6 weeks.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Update on my 2-10-10-2. I called Nassau, who I preordered it through, for a replacement engine. They said they had no more due to two other people called with similar complaints.

Your video.( and some others I've seen) It  seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.

Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....

I'm hoping you get your locomotive back in a timely manner ,with this issue resolved.

@RickO posted:

Your video.( and some others I've seen) It  seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.

Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....

I'm hoping you get your locomotive back in a timely manner ,with this issue resolved.

Agreed. It was definitely to thick. As was blowing the whistle the smoke would immediately fall meaning it was too dense. I think for the blowdown it is almost just right, but for the whistle it is a little bit too much. It is a hard balancing at that either ends burning itself up or being too little.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Agreed. It was definitely to thick. As was blowing the whistle the smoke would immediately fall meaning it was too dense. I think for the blowdown it is almost just right, but for the whistle it is a little bit too much. It is a hard balancing at that either ends burning itself up or being too little.

Really sorry the boards fried. Your smoke is super thick compared to ours. Just curious, what smoke are you using?

Matt

Wasn't there a similar problem with the Santa Fe Northern's getting too hot as well? I think that only burnt out the smoke unit(s) though IIRC from the post a couple of years ago?

One thing I've also noticed on the newer smoke units is. If you run them , turn them off, and then turn them back on before letting things cool down. Things get really toasty upon restart.

I believe several years ago Lionel redesigned the smoke units to "ramp up" upon start up to get smoke production started faster. Unfortunately, they still "ramp up" even though the unit has already been warmed.

@SuperChief I use JT’s Mega Steam Coal Fired scent but I have never seen it produce this much smoke in any of my other engines.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 Yes, there was a problem with them which I had the unfortunate luck of have to deal with it.
@RickO Thanks for the tip! This being a cold start of the engine I don’t think that was the problem for my engine.

Maybe I'll fire mine up with all the smoke items off and then turn them on one by one to see if it pops.

@RickO posted:

Your video.( and some others I've seen) It  seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.

Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....

Would adding a resistor limit how much power (amps?) can get to the smoke units to prevent this? That's a helpful tip about the ramp up getting restarted each time the whistle key is pulled. Especially if the board isn't checking temp before restarting the ramp.

TRAINMASTER04,

   Sorry to hear about the smoke unit getting toasted.  Hopefully Lionel will make it good.  Question for you, what level on the smoke were you at?  I have the Valley 2-10-10-2 but only take it to medium level.  I only use it when wife is not around.  I am curious if it was set at high and that was the cause?  I remember with the TMCC units if you kept increasing the smoke it would get hotter.  Did you stop at the high mark or did you keep pressing for more smoke?

@laz1957 posted:

TRAINMASTER04,

   Sorry to hear about the smoke unit getting toasted.  Hopefully Lionel will make it good.  Question for you, what level on the smoke were you at?  I have the Valley 2-10-10-2 but only take it to medium level.  I only use it when wife is not around.  I am curious if it was set at high and that was the cause?  I remember with the TMCC units if you kept increasing the smoke it would get hotter.  Did you stop at the high mark or did you keep pressing for more smoke?

When I programmed it the locomotive was set to low and I increased it to medium. I kept it on medium all the way till it burn itself up. I generally keep my engines set to medium or have them off if my mother or myself can longer take the smell of smoke.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Wasn't there a similar problem with the Santa Fe Northern's getting too hot as well? I think that only burnt out the smoke unit(s) though IIRC from the post a couple of years ago?

Yup. 2019 run of ATSF 3751 class Northerns had the issue. They would melt smoke funnels and fans. It was a two part issue. The first was the unit thermistor was too far from the resistor. Secondly was a mis-programed RCMC. The smoke units were basically on high all the time with no way to turn them down. I wasn't about to send mine back to Lionel for a new RCMC as I had already corrected the thermistor issue and swapped the Canon motor for a 9433 Pittman, so I didn't want a service tech anywhere near the thing. After some back and forth Lionel sent me a reprogrammed RCMC, which I installed and sent them back the mis-programmed one. The issue was fully corrected after that.

@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.

@BillYo414 posted:

@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.

I don't. The fix was to move the thermistor about 4mm (1/8 inch or so) away from the resistor. There is actually a printed graphic for spacing on the smoke unit but the thermistor was beyond 4mm when I opened it up.

Well that and a new RCMC.

Got to looking at my engine again and I noticed two new problems. First, the manufacture never packed the owner's manual with the locomotive, which is a first for me. Second, I noticed that the deck plate is missing its mounting screws! It is only being held by friction.

Edit: I also decided to power up the engine again, but isolate the smoke units. I turned off all the units, not through the remote, and still the same result. Also, without the extra smoke I noticed smoke curling from underneath the boiler that smells like electrical.

@Lou1985 posted:

I don't. The fix was to move the thermistor about 4mm (1/8 inch or so) away from the resistor. There is actually a printed graphic for spacing on the smoke unit but the thermistor was beyond 4mm when I opened it up.

Well that and a new RCMC.

@BillYo414 posted:

@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.

I know somewhere on the forum this was discussed quite thoroughly with a good number of our great tech friendly forum buddies talking about this and the fixes. Gunrunner John had posted about the resistor being too far away, I don't remember what the title of the topic was, but I could probably find it in my email notifications. I'll take a look after a bit as it will be easier to look on the laptop than the phone.

@BillYo414 posted:

@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.

I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up. I get wanting to learn electronics but that is not the way. Especially since if you do void you warranty and break it you have to buy the parts and send them in before you will get a replacement since its legacy. I would cut your teeth on something not quite that expensive. I would put it on the track and put it through its paces if breaks you have a warranty and yes you have to wait to get it back but leaving it in the box hoping to fix it yourself does not sound like the smartest move. I know enough to get by and fix my stuff usually but I do not mess with a locomotive with a warranty unless directed by the manufacturer.

Lionel (2019) - 3759 Santa Fe Northern - Whistle Steam Cooked Self

Here is the topic as promised, plus there is a link in it as well to a similar issue with the 2014 Big Boy. . Again, our good tech buddies came to save the day and offer their advice/know how to fix the issues.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up.

It's getting the satisfaction of breaking rules AND taking something apart all at once

If we knew more, I would have a more serious attitude about taking it apart instead of joking around. I think I could fix the smoke unit if we could find out that is the issue. Then I don't have to wait for a warranty claim. But I'm hesitant because I might do all that work for nothing. And it does look to be some work compared to the b6 or 0-6-0T I messed with.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Lionel (2019) - 3759 Santa Fe Northern - Whistle Steam Cooked Self

Here is the topic as promised, plus there is a link in it as well to a similar issue with the 2014 Big Boy. . Again, our good tech buddies came to save the day and offer their advice/know how to fix the issues.

Yup that's the thread. I didn't post pictures of the fix for the Northern smoke unit but it's explained there. One note is the RCMC will need changed out as well to fully solve the issue.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up. I get wanting to learn electronics but that is not the way. Especially since if you do void you warranty and break it you have to buy the parts and send them in before you will get a replacement since its legacy. I would cut your teeth on something not quite that expensive. I would put it on the track and put it through its paces if breaks you have a warranty and yes you have to wait to get it back but leaving it in the box hoping to fix it yourself does not sound like the smartest move. I know enough to get by and fix my stuff usually but I do not mess with a locomotive with a warranty unless directed by the manufacturer.

Warranty schmoranty 😉

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-step-swap-the-motor

I received my Valley Flyer.  A screw came loose on a connecting rod after about 4 loops.  How it occurred.   I heard a squeak and turned the loco over to oil.  A screw fell out.  Extra screw?  It’s happened.  Let’s run it around to see if squeak is gone.  Better brain prevailed.  Did not run.  Brought it down stairs for better light.  Found where it fell out.  Super small hex head.  I was fortunate enough to have a micro socket.

My advice is check rod screw tightness prior to running.  I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine.  Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer.  It is a cool engine with a delicate look to it.  Lots of bits as the Brits would say.  

I’m happy.  3rd VL in a row without RMA issue.  Thanks Lionel.

@BillYo414 posted:

It's getting the satisfaction of breaking rules AND taking something apart all at once

If we knew more, I would have a more serious attitude about taking it apart instead of joking around. I think I could fix the smoke unit if we could find out that is the issue. Then I don't have to wait for a warranty claim. But I'm hesitant because I might do all that work for nothing. And it does look to be some work compared to the b6 or 0-6-0T I messed with.

As far as the warranty goes, I have zero issues with folks going into their brand new engines.  My issue comes when after they do this and they complain the manufacturer will no longer honor it. 

If memory serves me the problem was the thermistor which regulates the heat was too far away from the heating element.  I know some of the service guys will know.

@Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine.  Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer.

I didn't know this knowledge would ever benefit me in the model railroad hobby haha but that's for the tip!

@MartyE posted:

  My issue comes when after they do this and they complain the manufacturer will no longer honor it.

Oh no, that's not my style. I keep warm by the dumpster fire I build.

To be honest, I always wondered how the smoke units kept temp and now I learned that. I've replaced parts in mine and that was fine but I didn't know the nuts and bolts of what I was doing. I'll wait a bit to get more info from other members before I go voiding any warranty.

Blowdown fail: FIXED.  My 2-10-10-2 #3008 Valley Flyer arrived last week.  A  stunning locomotive. Looking at it is like sitting in front of a fire, it's hard to look away!!!  Two initial issues.  The blowdown steam effect worked once, then nothing.  Initially the Engine just stopped as if it hit a wall.  Why it stopped, I don't know. Fortunately, that problem has not repeated itself. The blowdown is another story. The whistle steam smoke effect is amazing.  Blowdown would not work. The dreaded 3-blinking cab light came on. A reset worked in eliminating the blinks, but the blowdown still didn't work.  Called Lionel resigned that I would have to send it back.  However, Kristen, the customer support person I spoke with told me that since the whistle steam worked, it's probably not an issue with the smoke units, so she suggested using a shot or two from canned air directly into the exhaust port on the side of the loco.  That was verboten with the Big Boy, but I tried. After a few attempts, whatever was preventing the smoke from ejecting was dislodged (?) so it now works 110%, to quote John Glenn.  Kudos to Kristen and Lionel Customer Support!  I've been running the loco 3-4 times a day for the last 3 days and everything works great. 

@ToledoEd posted:

verboten 

Today I learned a new word.

Well that's interesting though! And a good fix to try should anything go wrong. I wonder if Lionel knows the issue is occurring or if Kristen just has that experience gained through time.

@ToledoEd posted:

Blowdown fail: FIXED.  My 2-10-10-2 #3008 Valley Flyer arrived last week.  A  stunning locomotive. Looking at it is like sitting in front of a fire, it's hard to look away!!!  Two initial issues.  The blowdown steam effect worked once, then nothing.  Initially the Engine just stopped as if it hit a wall.  Why it stopped, I don't know. Fortunately, that problem has not repeated itself. The blowdown is another story. The whistle steam smoke effect is amazing.  Blowdown would not work. The dreaded 3-blinking cab light came on. A reset worked in eliminating the blinks, but the blowdown still didn't work.  Called Lionel resigned that I would have to send it back.  However, Kristen, the customer support person I spoke with told me that since the whistle steam worked, it's probably not an issue with the smoke units, so she suggested using a shot or two from canned air directly into the exhaust port on the side of the loco.  That was verboten with the Big Boy, but I tried. After a few attempts, whatever was preventing the smoke from ejecting was dislodged (?) so it now works 110%, to quote John Glenn.  Kudos to Kristen and Lionel Customer Support!  I've been running the loco 3-4 times a day for the last 3 days and everything works great.

So the smoke unit for the blow down was clogged? I have read several posts where that has been an issue(smoke stack, whistle steam, and the like), never thought about canned air. Of course whenever I have added smoke fluid, I usually give it quite a bit of time to drip down in, then gently blow after removing my funnel. I usually wait about another 5-10 minutes before operating. This far I have not had an issue with any smoke fluid/smoke unit not operating. I do have one engine that is one that needs the unit replaced because of that generation of engines has had issues with it(F-12 Ten Wheeler from years ago). I have to consult the tech Gods we have for other advice on upgrading the engine as well as I forgot some things.

@Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I received my Valley Flyer.  A screw came loose on a connecting rod after about 4 loops.  How it occurred.   I heard a squeak and turned the loco over to oil.  A screw fell out.  Extra screw?  It’s happened.  Let’s run it around to see if squeak is gone.  Better brain prevailed.  Did not run.  Brought it down stairs for better light.  Found where it fell out.  Super small hex head.  I was fortunate enough to have a micro socket.

My advice is check rod screw tightness prior to running.  I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine.  Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer.  It is a cool engine with a delicate look to it.  Lots of bits as the Brits would say.  

I’m happy.  3rd VL in a row without RMA issue.  Thanks Lionel.

Bryant, glad you had an easy fix issue with yours. It's scary when parts fall off and your left trying to figure out where they went. Last thing anyone needs.

These posts have been horrifying.  I have 1 Vision and 2 Legacy locomotives that are 1 to 3 years old that I have yet to run or test.  Woe, woe, woe is me.  Time to assemble an 0-82 loop whether I have room or not.

@Stephen Johnson posted:

These posts have been horrifying.  I have 1 Vision and 2 Legacy locomotives that are 1 to 3 years old that I have yet to run or test.  Woe, woe, woe is me.  Time to assemble an 0-82 loop whether I have room or not.

I don't actually know what the Lionel warranty is but you are in the right place to get them fixed if you're a DIY type of person.

IF FedEx didn't loose Eastside Trains Pallet!!!!! I would have had a teardown thread of the engine already....we will have wait and see if it ever gets found. This was my only chance to get a 2-10-10-2....im peeved.

Black bonnet pulling freight

Rough times @Bruk. It has to turn up, right? Like that's not just a box somebody shipped...it's a whole pallet! If I tore mine down and broke it, could I send it to you for repair?

@Ulus Ekerman That paint job is just awesome. People can bark about fantasy schemes all they want...this one is just perfect. Is that a Pittsburgh backdrop in the background?

Beautiful engines.  I hope those with issues get them taken care of.

@Bruk posted:

IF FedEx didn't loose Eastside Trains Pallet!!!!! I would have had a teardown thread of the engine already....we will have wait and see if it ever gets found. This was my only chance to get a 2-10-10-2....im peeved.

Man that stinks.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up.

I do this 9 times out of 10...everytime I get something new. The GS-1 for instance was tested for about 2 minutes then I took a screw driver to it and found many issues inside.

@Bruk posted:

IF FedEx didn't loose Eastside Trains Pallet!!!!! I would have had a teardown thread of the engine already....we will have wait and see if it ever gets found. This was my only chance to get a 2-10-10-2....im peeved.

We just got a crazy shipment on a pallet here in our truck building facility from Concord, NC.  It wasn't something we ordered.  After I went through it and made sure it wasn't anything important we sent it back. Mysteriously it was a lot lighter than when we received it.

Seriously though I hope they get their shipment.  You have to figure something that big will show up.

@Bruk posted:

I do this 9 times out of 10...everytime I get something new. The GS-1 for instance was tested for about 2 minutes then I took a screw driver to it and found many issues inside.

Yeah, I do remember the GS-1 tear down you did. Lots of stuff was going on with those locomotives.

Looks like I didn't get a flawless locomotive either. I'm not sure if it's warranty worthy though.

1. I'm binding somewhere when I go forward. I think I identified it as the forward drivers on the right hand side. I'm not sure if something needs tightened or loosened. The voltage on the transformer drops to 15. Probably not good for the engine.
2. I don't know if a speaker is loose or what but the rattling is supreme when I blow the whistle.
3. Most fascinating, when I blow the whistle with the whistle steam on, smoke comes out around the front of the boiler where the headlight is I suspect this one is related to acoustics. I haven't taken the engine apart but I doubt the whistle steam has any parts anywhere near the front of the boiler. I figure the speaker is vibrating at the right frequency to make the joint separate a little bit. I should have checked it with the other whistles.

Here is how I started it up: I added smoke fluid to both units and then started up with all smoke off. I just wanted to hear the literal bells and whistles and see the bell swing. I think that's one of my favorite parts about this locomotive. I would love to add it to others. Anyway, I ran it forward and it hung up. I thought a roller got caught on a switch but soon discovered that wasn't it. Then I powered down to turn on stack smoke. It came on and worked well. Very happy with that. Then I ran in reverse to check for binding. It did but not so much. I powered down and turned on whistle steam. Powered up, whistle steam was slow to start but seemed ok. I didn't use it much for fear of burning anything up. Ran forward and noticed the binding seemed to occur when the front drivers where at the end of their stroke. Powered down to turn on blowdown steam. Tested the blowdown and it's pretty awesome but again, I didn't use it a ton until we know more about what's burning up and why. I pushed the engine forward while running at low speed and that seemed to stop some binding. I'm suspecting I have loose linkage somewhere. I will have more time to investigate another day. I just wanted to get it under power and see what I'm working with.

Anybody else get the binding?

I hope @Bruk gets his soon so he can tear it apart haha

Overall, this is my first high end locomotive ever. First I ever saw in person and first I ever owned. What a beast! It is darn cool. From the front to the back, it's pretty awesome in terms of detail and it looks even better when everything is in motion. I budgeted all year to afford this and it was worth it. It's definitely no speed demon though. It'll be great for my coal drags

@BillYo414 posted:

Looks like I didn't get a flawless locomotive either. I'm not sure if it's warranty worthy though.

1. I'm binding somewhere when I go forward. I think I identified it as the forward drivers on the right hand side. I'm not sure if something needs tightened or loosened. The voltage on the transformer drops to 15. Probably not good for the engine.
2. I don't know if a speaker is loose or what but the rattling is supreme when I blow the whistle.
3. Most fascinating, when I blow the whistle with the whistle steam on, smoke comes out around the front of the boiler where the headlight is I suspect this one is related to acoustics. I haven't taken the engine apart but I doubt the whistle steam has any parts anywhere near the front of the boiler. I figure the speaker is vibrating at the right frequency to make the joint separate a little bit. I should have checked it with the other whistles.

Here is how I started it up: I added smoke fluid to both units and then started up with all smoke off. I just wanted to hear the literal bells and whistles and see the bell swing. I think that's one of my favorite parts about this locomotive. I would love to add it to others. Anyway, I ran it forward and it hung up. I thought a roller got caught on a switch but soon discovered that wasn't it. Then I powered down to turn on stack smoke. It came on and worked well. Very happy with that. Then I ran in reverse to check for binding. It did but not so much. I powered down and turned on whistle steam. Powered up, whistle steam was slow to start but seemed ok. I didn't use it much for fear of burning anything up. Ran forward and noticed the binding seemed to occur when the front drivers where at the end of their stroke. Powered down to turn on blowdown steam. Tested the blowdown and it's pretty awesome but again, I didn't use it a ton until we know more about what's burning up and why. I pushed the engine forward while running at low speed and that seemed to stop some binding. I'm suspecting I have loose linkage somewhere. I will have more time to investigate another day. I just wanted to get it under power and see what I'm working with.

Anybody else get the binding?

I hope @Bruk gets his soon so he can tear it apart haha

Overall, this is my first high end locomotive ever. First I ever saw in person and first I ever owned. What a beast! It is darn cool. From the front to the back, it's pretty awesome in terms of detail and it looks even better when everything is in motion. I budgeted all year to afford this and it was worth it. It's definitely no speed demon though. It'll be great for my coal drags

I am sorry to hear you are having problems as well! Reading through your description, it like you might want to call Lionel. If power is dropping every time the engine snags, that could lead to a burnt motor. The vibrations I think are coming from the tender hatches. I got to see a friend’s 2-10-10-2 and it vibrated as well. The smoke might also be as simple as a loose tube. I think it would be best to call Lionel about the snagging and add the other two problems onto it.

I appreciate the advice @Trainmaster04. Never dealt with warranty things so I wasn't sure what Lionel counts for warranty. I'll have to give them a ring and see what they want to do. Hopefully they have a fix over the phone. Do you think I should call the dealer first and ask them? I heard Lionel moved warranty stuff in house.

I hit the direction button when it snags to relieve the load.

I tried pressing my tenders hatches while blowing the whistle and it did seem to help some. I'm not overly worried because loose hardware or a loose speaker can always be secured.

I confirmed the smoke is coming through the hole for the wire for the headlight. So probably a loose tube.

@BillYo414 posted:

I appreciate the advice @Trainmaster04. Never dealt with warranty things so I wasn't sure what Lionel counts for warranty. I'll have to give them a ring and see what they want to do. Hopefully they have a fix over the phone. Do you think I should call the dealer first and ask them? I heard Lionel moved warranty stuff in house.

I hit the direction button when it snags to relieve the load.

I tried pressing my tenders hatches while blowing the whistle and it did seem to help some. I'm not overly worried because loose hardware or a loose speaker can always be secured.

I confirmed the smoke is coming through the hole for the wire for the headlight. So probably a loose tube.

You could try and see if your dealer could send you a replacement engine, but I have seen most dealers be sold out. If you called Lionel, I have a feeling they are going to send you an RA number instead of an over-the-phone solution.

Does anyone have one without anything wrong with it out of the box? I’m on the fence of grabbing one but based on all of this I’m extremely hesitant.

@Robert Cushman posted:

Does anyone have one without anything wrong with it out of the box? I’m on the fence of grabbing one but based on all of this I’m extremely hesitant.

Mines been fantastic

Mine might be ok in terms of that binding I mentioned. I ran it back and forth today trying to get a video to send to Lionel...it wouldn't do it. I work in maintenance and I've seen problems get camera shy before. Usually means it worked itself out. In this case, it might have been some break in. I'm going to call the hobby shop tomorrow and ask their opinion on what I should do. I'm considering putting a big straight away on the floor too so I can open it up.

The sound is still raspy but I haven't pinpointed what it is. Honestly I find myself not hearing it because this stereo stuff is blowing my mind. I'm paying attention to the depth/presence of sound more than the static I hear. I thought my other Legacy engine sounded good and I mean I have listened to it just for the sole purpose of being impressed but this boiler speaker thing is outstanding. I didn't expect to love it so much.

I abused the blowdown and the whistle steam quite a bit today and everything is good. I had the setting on high and the volume of smoke was impressive. I basically played yankee doodle with the whistle and we're ok. I think mine is ok.

The smoke coming out the boiler front is fine by me actually. The steam traction engine at the county fair had leaks around the smokebox front like in that video. This looks pretty much the same. I also think there's just a loose tube that would fix it.

The only thing I care about is the binding. That's beyond my ability to repair I think. The speakers and smokebox are small potatoes for me personally.

I don't know if this hurts or helps your decision making @Robert Cushman haha

@ToledoEd posted:

Blowdown fail: FIXED.  My 2-10-10-2 #3008 Valley Flyer arrived last week.  A  stunning locomotive. Looking at it is like sitting in front of a fire, it's hard to look away!!!  Two initial issues.  The blowdown steam effect worked once, then nothing.  Initially the Engine just stopped as if it hit a wall.  Why it stopped, I don't know. Fortunately, that problem has not repeated itself. The blowdown is another story. The whistle steam smoke effect is amazing.  Blowdown would not work. The dreaded 3-blinking cab light came on. A reset worked in eliminating the blinks, but the blowdown still didn't work.  Called Lionel resigned that I would have to send it back.  However, Kristen, the customer support person I spoke with told me that since the whistle steam worked, it's probably not an issue with the smoke units, so she suggested using a shot or two from canned air directly into the exhaust port on the side of the loco.  That was verboten with the Big Boy, but I tried. After a few attempts, whatever was preventing the smoke from ejecting was dislodged (?) so it now works 110%, to quote John Glenn.  Kudos to Kristen and Lionel Customer Support!  I've been running the loco 3-4 times a day for the last 3 days and everything works great.

Gents, it's been a few days from the "canned air fix,"  I'm declaring the problem fixed!  I've not had a bout of smoke-constipation since the blast of canned air.  It's now awesome!

Good stuff @ToledoEd. That paint scheme is great stuff haha

I'm throwing my hands up on this one. I setup a straight away about 20ft long. I have been running this thing about 4 feet on the straight away on my test layout the last few days. So I setup the big straight away thinking for SURE I'm bound to have problems since the wheels will get to make a few revolutions.

NOPE

I have never been so disappointed to see something work. I ran it at speed step one because I had the most issues there. It was fine. So I started going up by about 5 speed steps at a time until I maxed it. Would you believe it ran fine? I gotta wonder if this was a breaking in kind of thing. I'll call the hobby shop tomorrow and see what they say. But yeesh...I like my problems clear cut. It stinks when you can't quite get a grasp on what's going on.

The headlight still doesn't seem to want to come on but I'm going to read the manual on that one. It's been on but it seems like it's coming on as it pleases or we have an operator error. I'm open to some feedback on this. I hate to send it away in the mail for something like plugging the light bulb back into the board (assuming this is like an ERR upgrade).

I also blew the whistle and did the blowdown until there was no smoke coming out so I'm going to say I'm good there.

Awesome Ed'.. I'd love to see that beauty in action.. I think a short action video is in order here'.....😁

@BillYo414 posted:

Mine might be ok in terms of that binding I mentioned. I ran it back and forth today trying to get a video to send to Lionel...it wouldn't do it. I work in maintenance and I've seen problems get camera shy before. Usually means it worked itself out. In this case, it might have been some break in. I'm going to call the hobby shop tomorrow and ask their opinion on what I should do. I'm considering putting a big straight away on the floor too so I can open it up.

I'd go after the easy stuff as far as the binding. I'm not familiar with this loco, but many of Lionels scale steamers have separately applied brake shoe detail that is screwed into the chassis behind each driver.

These can sometimes pivot and rub the wheels and/or traction tires. If the one on the traction tire rubs it can create a binding action out of the locomotive. The brake shoes on the engineers side of the loco are more at risk of rubbing as they can pivot towards the drivers when tightened.

I usually take the shoe loose a bit . Then insert a small flat blade screwdriver between the brake shoe and the wheel for spacing and retighten.

Secondly, give each gearbox a shot of grease. Often these gearboxes come with little grease and most of it is stuck to the side of the gearbox. I Grease every new loco  after a brief test run to make sure there are no signifigant issues.  Of course, lube all of the rod pivots and axle bushings as well . If you haven't already. Theres alot going on in the drive rod dept on these.

Having said all that. I recall the Legacy J3as ran a little rough out of the box. Some run in time appeared to resolve this.

Good luck and enjoy the new loco Bill!

Thanks @RickO! I will check those brake shoes. I'll have to see if I can find some 0-72 track to make a loop and put some run time on it.

I haven't lubed anything just yet but I was planning on it till this started going on.

@BillYo414 Glad to hear your's might be safe. Sent mine off this past Thursday and it is scheduled to be delivered to Lionel on the 20th. Here's hoping for a quick fix.

I hope so @Trainmaster04. I mean I gotta assume they're gonna see charred electronics and set to replacing immediately.

I checked one side and all my brakes seem to be clear of the wheels. I'll check the other side another day.

Ended up ordering a #3009 today, fingers crossed.

Keep us posted @Robert Cushman

@BillYo414 posted:

I hope so @Trainmaster04. I mean I gotta assume they're gonna see charred electronics and set to replacing immediately.

I checked one side and all my brakes seem to be clear of the wheels. I'll check the other side another day.

Any new news on your locomotive?

The binding is 100% gone @Trainmaster04 and the smoke is working well. Sound is still eh at louder volumes and I can't figure out the headlight. I can't think of anything besides a bad connection (not fully plugged into the board) and myself that would stop that headlight from coming on. I see I can toggle Rule 17 Manual or Rule 17 off. But I don't see how to manually control Rule 17 if I have it in manual mode. I don't even know if that's related.

Hi All,

Sorry to hear of these problems. My 3009 seems ok. One thing to consider, though, is if you're shipping this loco back to Lionel, please take off the magnetic removable dome and wrap it and place it in a recess in the styro cradle.

Similar to the magnet on the Pacifics, these caps tend to easily free themselves from the domes and may cause paint damage.

@N'awlins posted:

Hi All,

Sorry to hear of these problems. My 3009 seems ok. One thing to consider, though, is if you're shipping this loco back to Lionel, please take off the magnetic removable dome and wrap it and place it in a recess in the styro cradle.

Similar to the magnet on the Pacifics, these caps tend to easily free themselves from the domes and may cause paint damage.

Thanks for the tip. I shipped mine back to Lionel last week and unfortunately I did not do that. I remember when I first opened mine the front dome was off and loose in the box. Thankfully, it did not scratch anything. Here’s hoping it doesn’t do it now.

So after a short period of time running with no problems, my 3001 developed a problem: the sound and effects in the tender cut in and out, particularly when it’s going forward.  Anyone else have that problem?  I surmise it is something wrong with the drawbar connection between the two.   The loco and tender will be fine, then only sound from the loco speakers (so no bass, no stereo), then fine again, then only sound from the loco speakers again, and then finally all Legacy features don’t work (whistle steam, blowdown, it all goes).  

Lionel sent me an RA and a shipping label.   But I’m leery because my last new engine, the SF 2-8-8-2 with whistle steam, had a problem which they agreed to fix and it came back in the same condition (I’m hoping a local dealer with a mechanic onsite can figure it out).   But I don’t see what choice I have but to invoke the warranty repair on this $2400 beauty.

@N'awlins posted:

Hi All,

Sorry to hear of these problems. My 3009 seems ok. One thing to consider, though, is if you're shipping this loco back to Lionel, please take off the magnetic removable dome and wrap it and place it in a recess in the styro cradle.

Similar to the magnet on the Pacifics, these caps tend to easily free themselves from the domes and may cause paint damage.

Thanks for the tip!  That never would have occurred to me.

@Alec_6460 posted:

So after a short period of time running with no problems, my 3001 developed a problem: the sound and effects in the tender cut in and out, particularly when it’s going forward.  Anyone else have that problem?  I surmise it is something wrong with the drawbar connection between the two.   The loco and tender will be fine, then only sound from the loco speakers (so no bass, no stereo), then fine again, then only sound from the loco speakers again, and then finally all Legacy features don’t work (whistle steam, blowdown, it all goes).  

Yep. I had the same issue. The drawbars weren't fully seated between the tender and locomotive. I didn't figure out if it was from how I put it on the track or if it was just the way it moved but I reached in between them with my pinky finger and the locomotive side dropped down: sound restored.

@BillYo414 posted:

Yep. I had the same issue. The drawbars weren't fully seated between the tender and locomotive. I didn't figure out if it was from how I put it on the track or if it was just the way it moved but I reached in between them with my pinky finger and the locomotive side dropped down: sound restored.

Yeah, I tried the same and it wasn’t that.  They are fully engaged and it still happens.  Something is obstructing the signal between the two halves of the loco.  Hopefully they will do a better job fixing it than they did my 2-8-8-2.  

I'm sorry to hear that @Alec_6460. I was (still am) a bit perplexed at how the window is so narrow on the infrared given that the connection is a simple drop in draw bar. Seems like it wouldn't taken much to lose communication.

I know they may have been mentioned but what did the 2-10-10-2 pull? I’m trying to find something good preferably vision cars to go along with it. Not too much info online at least that I can find.

@Robert Cushman posted:

I know they may have been mentioned but what did the 2-10-10-2 pull? I’m trying to find something good preferably vision cars to go along with it. Not too much info online at least that I can find.

Freight, but no modern cars. As mentioned above, by about 1918 they were all gone.

@Robert Cushman posted:

I know they may have been mentioned but what did the 2-10-10-2 pull? I’m trying to find something good preferably vision cars to go along with it. Not too much info online at least that I can find.

You can pop over to YouTube and type in "The Hazards Of Helen, The Leap From The Water Tower" as that is 3001's film debut. This is a silent film from 1915 and has some great shots of 3001 running cars about. Hazards of Helen appears to be a series of short railroad themed films back in the day.

WOW BEAUTIFUL ENGINE!!  What a beast!!! My new favorite engine.  Got lucky no problems with it. Got it from ModelTrainStuff.

I really can’t believe how nice it is. The smoke is unreal also. The swinging bell and blow down and the sound system in it are extremely impressive.

On the Hazards of Helen film, 3001 seemed to be pulling some wooden boxcars that in paint scheme at least look a bit like the Atlas double sheathed ATSF wood boxcars (one big SF cross, no system map or ad for a passenger train).   I’ve been thinking i would have my 3001 pull those plus some SFRD wood sided refeers and maybe some billboard reefers.  But I’m aware that those cars came into service protypically a decade or two after the 2-10-10-2s were broken down.  I’m not aware of any prototypical 1910-1915 cars on the market.

Great tip Alec 6460!  I didn't know there was film of this loco, cool stuff!

Best  2-10-10-2 footage starts at about the 5:30 mark:

36' reefers would be passable. Even some of the billboard ones in the late teens (Heinz, Yellow Armour cars, etc...). You would probably have to look past the more modern trucks, but if you kept it to the reefers with truss rod underframes (Atlas made a number), those would be fair representations of early reefers that would pass the smell test. The book "The Great Yellow Fleet" has a number of photos of reefers from the late 1900's and 1910's.   The ATSF map cars and the passenger car slogan cars came way later (late 40's and beyond), so the idea would be to find the ones that just had the small Circle Cross logo in a square and whatever shade of orangish yellow they were painted.

@Boilermaker1 posted:

36' reefers would be passable. Even some of the billboard ones in the late teens (Heinz, Yellow Armour cars, etc...). You would probably have to look past the more modern trucks, but if you kept it to the reefers with truss rod underframes (Atlas made a number), those would be fair representations of early reefers that would pass the smell test. The book "The Great Yellow Fleet" has a number of photos of reefers from the late 1900's and 1910's.   The ATSF map cars and the passenger car slogan cars came way later (late 40's and beyond), so the idea would be to find the ones that just had the small Circle Cross logo in a square and whatever shade of orangish yellow they were painted.

Great intel.  Thanks!

Quick question, why don't these trains come with that little memory (writable module) stick to preload the info of the train into cab2 like my r-27 subway set?

@Robert Cushman posted:

Quick question, why don't these trains come with that little memory (writable module) stick to preload the info of the train into cab2 like my r-27 subway set?

Lionel stopped including modules several years ago. Cost savings?

It's easy enough to enter the info manually.

@RickO posted:

Lionel stopped including modules several years ago. Cost savings?

It's easy enough to enter the info manually.

True enough.  But it was a great little feature.  Remember it fondly.

@RickO posted:

Lionel stopped including modules several years ago. Cost savings?

That or to help push the sensor tracks. They are great products just frustrating they discontinued the IRV2 for the probably 75% (not a real number just pulled it out of the air) of us that don’t use Fastrack.

@zhubl posted:

That or to help push the sensor tracks. They are great products just frustrating they discontinued the IRV2 for the probably 75% (not a real number just pulled it out of the air) of us that don’t use Fastrack.

I totally agree Zachariah.  I got back into the hobby in late 2017 and had no clue IRV2 or LCS was such a cool offering so that show how bad the marketing of it was I don't miss much but I totally missed this and I am still playing catchup with some things but I am back to having a pretty good handle on stuff again. Crazy I was only out of the mainstream for 3 to 3 1/2 years.

@BillYo414 posted:

Looks like I didn't get a flawless locomotive either. I'm not sure if it's warranty worthy though.

1. I'm binding somewhere when I go forward. I think I identified it as the forward drivers on the right hand side. I'm not sure if something needs tightened or loosened. The voltage on the transformer drops to 15. Probably not good for the engine.
2. I don't know if a speaker is loose or what but the rattling is supreme when I blow the whistle.
3. Most fascinating, when I blow the whistle with the whistle steam on, smoke comes out around the front of the boiler where the headlight is I suspect this one is related to acoustics. I haven't taken the engine apart but I doubt the whistle steam has any parts anywhere near the front of the boiler. I figure the speaker is vibrating at the right frequency to make the joint separate a little bit. I should have checked it with the other whistles.

Here is how I started it up: I added smoke fluid to both units and then started up with all smoke off. I just wanted to hear the literal bells and whistles and see the bell swing. I think that's one of my favorite parts about this locomotive. I would love to add it to others. Anyway, I ran it forward and it hung up. I thought a roller got caught on a switch but soon discovered that wasn't it. Then I powered down to turn on stack smoke. It came on and worked well. Very happy with that. Then I ran in reverse to check for binding. It did but not so much. I powered down and turned on whistle steam. Powered up, whistle steam was slow to start but seemed ok. I didn't use it much for fear of burning anything up. Ran forward and noticed the binding seemed to occur when the front drivers where at the end of their stroke. Powered down to turn on blowdown steam. Tested the blowdown and it's pretty awesome but again, I didn't use it a ton until we know more about what's burning up and why. I pushed the engine forward while running at low speed and that seemed to stop some binding. I'm suspecting I have loose linkage somewhere.

Anybody else get the binding?

I hope @Bruk gets his soon so he can tear it apart haha!

Bruks breakdown where he mentions loose linkage as well as smoke coming out of the smokebox door:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...9#159096765106531509

@zhubl posted:

That or to help push the sensor tracks. They are great products just frustrating they discontinued the IRV2 for the probably 75% (not a real number just pulled it out of the air) of us that don’t use Fastrack.

I'm pretty bummed about that, but I quickly went out and I think I found enough stock to finish my LCS wiring, but that doesn't help without Fastrack much.  I don't see any of the Lionel 85383 expansion sleds available anymore.  OTOH, Factory Direct Hobbies has 25 of the Lionel 6-85296 IRV2 still in stock.  It may be a little more expensive, but you can buy more than one, you get two sensors in each pack.  It's about twice the price of the expansion pack to do it this way, but you can still get it done.

You'll have to do a search on it, direct links are frowned upon for non-sponsors.

You're the MVP @RickO I been in the basement working on surface prep for my backdrop. I would have 100% missed this.

I hope he mentions something about the headlight coming on when it feels like it haha

Unfortunately, the frustrating saga continues with my model. I thankfully received my 2-10-10-2 yesterday with minor ware on the shipper. At first, I thought all was well after I read the invoice and saw there was an owners manual, but I was wrong. I got the engine down stairs and started unwrapping it. The first thing that ticked me off was the tender deck plate floating around the box. I had wrote in my letter that it had no screws and it seems they ignored it or were lazy. Next, I unwrapped the tender and to my shock one of the water hatches was forced open and the brass hinges were on the brink of snapping off. This is what really pushed me over the edge. Expecting for the worst I moved over to the locomotive and I found bent handrails, a loose smoke box front and a loose body screw. Thankfully however, they did replace the board and the engine, electronically, works.
Overall, I am infuriated in Lionel’s inept ability of quality control. All of these problems, even the fixed ones, could have been avoided. For years I have been a high supporter of Lionel and 90% of my collection is Lionel. To have something like this happen is just heartbreaking. I have called the dealer and they unfortunately cannot do anything. My trust with Lionel to not make the same mistake twice is at all time low.