3 D printing toy trains

Very cool ,thank you for posting.

Brad

Spend some time browsing shapeways.com

 

3D printing will change model railroading. Eventually we will be able to get just about any model in any scale custom printed on demand. No more waiting for importers to offer only models they can get enough pre-orders for. Mark my words. It can't get he fast enough IMHO.

I honestly wonder what those 3-D printers portend for the hobby, esp. for folks who hand-make structures. Does anybody know some facts? Suppositions? Logical conclusions? Predictions?

FrankM.

Layout Refinements

The cost must be coming down on this process to be able to use it for reproducing toys. I'm not sure if it's cost effective enough yet, or the big boys would be investing in it. This technology will certainly be a game changer at some point. It might even mean the return of Us manufacturing. Unless of course the technology makes its way overseas to the cheap labor market wherever that may be?
Don

Very cool! Hopefully we'll see more of it as the technology advances. 

Lionel is already using this technology.  They are printing the engine parts first to check for fit before they cut they dies for the tooling.

 

It's called rapid prototyping.  Lionel, MTH, Atlas O, and others and in other scales have been doing this for over a decade.

Here's a thread on MyLargeScale.com's forums on someone's project to building a 1:32 scale Schnabel car as a CAD model and then 3D-printing the body parts to assemble into a completed car. There is a photo on the third page of the modeler's 3D printer, a modified RepRap kit.

 

Photos (really big ones) start on the second page, and the entire body (minus trucks) has taken shape by the fourth page.

 

It's a      r e a l l y  b i g  m o d e l .

 

---PCJ

What is needed first for Model Railroad applications of 3D printing are more realistic figures in O Scale.

 

 

Andrew

I think the future of 3d printing in model railroading lies in cottage industries making kits at first. When the printers go mainstream selling software to produce parts, cars, whatever will take over.

Ron

3D printer technology is advancing at a rapid rate and the cost of the printers will go down as they sell more volume.

 

I think the only roadblock would be the software needed to produce anything from scratch.  I would venture that a lot of people don't have the necessary CAD skils to be able to design an object.  The key is 3rd party applications that make the CAD side of things much easier.  One other issue is being able to scan/design larger items that the printer can handle.  While those printers are currently available the cost is prohibitive for most.

 

I have no doubt these issues will be resolved fairly quickly and 3D printing will  go mainstream in the near futire

 

Ed

It is only a matter of time before you see a 3-D file library on sites like this one.

At the trade show I was at last week in Ohio, there were a few different ones, and one capable of printing in a space of 5" x 5" x 5" was between $750-$1500 dollars.  The larger ones, capable of printing full cars like this were still in the multi-thousand dollar range, but I want one.

 

Thanks,

- Mario

While 3D printing is a very interesting technology for low volume products, I doubt it'll ever be cost effective for quantity production, at least in most of our lifetimes.  As mentioned, it's great for rapid prototyping, a job it's ideally suited for.

 

Being able to create parts is a ways down the road, at least metal ones.  The price of those printers is pretty steep.  I see this as a great way to create small plastic models.  Anything large runs up the cost and time to create it.

I actually designed, scaled, and 3D printed an HO scale box car for an engineering project. It actually turned out very well, but it takes an extraordinary amount of time to print. I had a total run time of about 16 hours on the printer to make one box car. Some of the filler plastic did not run properly so I also had to re run it several times. Cool for persons with CAD or Solid works knowledge, who want to design their own items. Just not very efficient.

The CAD experience is what will stop most folks.  With the limited experience I've had, I know how difficult it is to create a complex part in AutoCAD, so without that work done for you, it will really limit the ability to create new stuff.

 

 

This is the only photo I could find on my phone. I didn't really put as much work in to the project as I could have, but I wanted to do fundamentals before moving to detail. I have everything ya need. Printer, Solid works, and my car builders cyclopedia from 1941

Looks like the string version of the 3D Printer.

 

The powder ones are great but expensive!

I have heard, but have not yet seen, that some Z and N scale folks are already printing custom cars. Now I want the infamous OR&W boxcar with the "Leaky Roof" placard. ( yes, they actually painted and nailed on a sign that said the roof leaked, rather than fixing it.)

 

As I've said before, the technology is leaping ahead in ways it's hard to foresee. The latest R&D Magazine newsletter showcased a printer that works only with self-hardening materials. (Chocolate, for goodness' sake.) The Israelis are working on multi-material printing with the aim of printing circuit boards and batteries in a single step. Human organs are already in print and the first few have been installed, and a prosthetic hand with muscle-sensitive pickups so the user can actually move it by thinking at it costs $50 to print. Just remember how slow, loud, expensive and lacking in quality the old nine-pin ribbon printers were, and how soon the inkjet takeover happened.

 

--Becky

I'll wait for the laser printer version, forget the inkjet.

 

Any 3D work in AutoCAD is a royal pain.  AutoCAD isn't a 3D modeler, it's a 2D drafting program that had 3D added to it.  And boy did they really mess up on that.  SolidWorks is really the way to go.  Even ANSYS was easier to use to create 3D objects than AutoCAD was when last I tried.  There are also several free CAD programs out there that do 3D.  I think if someone really wants to build their own cars, they can do it now even.  But using 3D printing at a production level, not going to happen, the cost will always be too high per part.  Now one offs and custom jobs, then I can see that happening.  But in that case, I'd rather just machine it myself on a mill and lathe.

Not only is Solid Works better for 3d modeling, it is also very easy to import your old auto cad drawings into solid works and make them a 3D model! for self projects, I can say it is worth it. You can make any car you want, any size! I love it. 

It is indeed the extruded plastic version. Pretty silly for me right now to throw out the cash for a powdered one. The plastic is actually very strong if It is thick enough.

I haven’t used SolidWorks since 1998 but currently my favorite CAD programs are AutoCAD (for 2-D idea / concept development) & CATIA for 3-D design. I now use Pro-E (Creo) for CAD all-day at work. For members who are intimidated by CAD or do not have access to CAD systems I could recommend getting access to a nearby University / Community College that teaches any of the CAD programs. The newer CAD programs are very intuitive like your smartphones & you should be able to get your ideas into effective CAD models after a few trials. When I graduated, I briefly had trouble changing jobs since the HR folks (who were usually the first point of contact in the hiring process but were not engineers) would reject me since I did not have expertise in the specific CAD program that their firm used. Living close to the campus I graduated from allowed me to access the campus labs, that I used on nights / weekends. This allowed becoming proficient in multiple CAD programs that allowed me to change jobs as needed.

 

I wouldn’t recommend buying CAD programs just for model trains. Most of the popular / user-friendly CAD programs have gone to annual subscriptions like your favorite magazines. A few years ago when I investigated buying a CAD package I found out that SolidWorks cost $5000 / license (basic functionality) to $10,000 / license (for all the bells / whistles like pre-loaded fastener geometry & linkage movement simulation). This was the initial expense & was only valid for 1 year. After the year, if you still wanted to keep using it, it would cost 15% to 30% for annual subscription depending on the number of licenses you had. CATIA cost was around $24,000 / license for the first year & similar subscription plans since both CATIA & SolidWorks are owned by Dassault Systemes. AutoCAD costs around $5000 / license but I am not familiar with their annual maintenance /subscription plans. From the e-mails I get even Adobe is coercing users to migrate to the subscription plans. Microsoft has also adopted subscription plans for their latest Office products. Sure you could buy Microsoft Office with your new computer but try reinstalling it if you loose your device.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

I have found a free two-dimensional drawing program that is very similar to Autocad, or at least Autocad LT 2002, DraftSight by Dessault Systemes.

 

I found it after having problems with trying to get Autocad LT to run on Windows 7, and trying Scarm and not being able to leave a measurement. It even uses that super annoying pspace and mspace commands. Have not figured out Tracking yet, and some of the more complicated Autocad commands I have not tried.

 

Then they try to up sell you, but not hard, to their 3D version, for like $200. I might jump on it.

 

If you are like me and really like having files "in the cloud", and be able to edit from multiple locations, a freeware 2D cad can be useful.

 

Biggest downside is, you have to create the track elements by yourself. For now track is just a box with a line down the middle.

 

Another downside is the learning curve of the Autocad interface. I was using Autocad in college in like 1986 on a 286 with a Hercules graphic card.

 

I dropped some coin on Turbocad some time ago, and never used it.

 

So, Cleartracks, judging from your attached photo of the boxcar, let me ask, if I may:

1. where did the color come from - did you paint it separately? Did you add the wheels/trucks? Do they operate normally if created by the 3-D printer?

2. making 3-D human organs (mentioned above), would they be produced in real-life coloration?

3. Would a model of a building (as the one I modeled, here, for example) be reproduced in colors and variations, with weathering etc.? In my photo, would a 3-D printer have reproduced my coloration & weathering of the roof and stone, for example?

4. would a 3-D gun fire? 3-D bullets?

 

P.S. If my questions demonstrate a lack of understanding on my part, I'd say that was pretty accurate.

 

Fire away!

 

1) I did paint the box car. The original color was a light blue. It didn't need to be very intricate for the project. So I used a spray can to paint it. The wheels and trucks I had just attached myself, from a giant box of trucks from older HO endeavors. I have yet to attempt to make a set of trucks.... I might try that yet this summer! 

 

2) I have no clue. Although, I'm not sure I'd be as concerned with color as much as functionality of a printed organ

 

3) The 3-d aspects of the building would be maintained, but that depends on how much you spent on your printer. Much more expensive printers can be and are much more precise. The color, not so much. all the spools for my printer are one solid color thought the plastic spool ( the plastic is the material ). you would probably have to paint it by yourself. 

 

4) Yup! there have already been people who have successfully manufactured 3D printed hand guns. As far as ammunition though, I am not sure if that would work that well. probably should do some r&d on that one. I'll leave that one to someone else.

Truthfully, while AutoCAD probably isn't the ideal tool for 3D modeling, doing intricate designs in any 3D CAD package is not going to be practical for a vast majority of the folks in the hobby.  If you enjoy tinkering, you can certainly put some time into it, but I'm not ready to invest that much time in a one-off project.

 

Thank you, Cleartracks, for the kindness of your reply, and so soon, too!

FrankM

Layout Refinements

No problem, Sir!

Like you said it just depends on how well you can work with it. I've out a lot more time in other train projects than I did that box car. The drawings/ model only took me a few hours last time. I'm gonna try and do a hot metal car soon. I have the drawings for that as well. Just need to scale the dimensions and make the model. 

I've just bought this 3D printed O-9 Oscale loco body shell to run on N gauge track.

So it has started out there.

James

 

I have had parts made using Rapid Prototyping (3-D printers) infrequently since 1999 in both Academic & Industrial (Automotive) settings. Based on my experience, the leader in Rapid Prototyping is Stratasys. In my opinion, they have the highest accuracy, widest range of plastics (various grades of ABS, transparent or non-transparent, rigid or flexible, single or multiple colors, etc). Most of the features that customers rave about in MakerBot or other domestic 3-D printers were either developed or improved by Stratasys over a decade ago & Stratasys still keeps innovating. Cost-wise, their high-precision, high-end models they may not be suitable for hobbyists but they have a wide selection of 3-D printers in different price ranges. If you are located in the US, you can request a sample part, if you want to judge their capabilities yourself.

For metal 3-D printing, that technology is available on a limited basis commercially & almost none for retail. When I worked at Toyota until 6 years ago, I was in contact with some professors at a Canadian university who were perfecting a process called Selective LASER Sintering to print 3-D parts using metal for a test setup that I needed. They had used this process in the lab to make accurate metal parts like dental implants, micro-turbine blades, etc.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

What does it feel like in your hands, sir? Sturdy? Featherlight? Like plastic? Metal?

the cost of 3D printing has come down, but the price of creating the 3D drawing for the printer to use is still expensive. they have 3D scanners to produce the drawings, but they cost a fortune.

 

An O Scale modeller by the name of Ed Traxler has a pretty good library of special items building up in his Shapeways library. He had made a figure of a portly worker as a test, but he removed it. I think he said an O scale figure runs ~$5-$10 to print as a ballpark price. Not bad to get a specific pose and such.  He is looking to sell some of his items at some point, so he is someone to talk to if you have a special need for something in O, even figures.

 

Click here to see Etraxx' O scale items library at Shapeways.

 

You will see that you can order some of his designs just by clicking right now (I think he gets a tiny cut- most goes to Shapeways of course). Other stuff he has listed but not for sale probably has some miniscule issue with it, so he does not have it for sale, this guy is a true perfectionist. If you see something in his library that he does not have for sale just ask him, he might make it available for you. There are lots more O scale things available on Shapeways as well, growing every day.

 

Here is one of Ed's designs, a really neat and detailed gate control mechanism. Cost is only $5 to get one from Shapeways, not too shabby for something that detailed and specialized.

 

 

P.S: I know that Ed uses Sketchup to design his items for Shapeways printing, which is free. A lot of the public domain Sketchup designs (literally Millions of them) can be used in whole or part and scaled to print to the size you need and used as well.

 

Also: Click here to see the search of 1:48 items in the current Shapeways library. There are more than 2,000 pages of items that popped up with that search. A lot of items meant to be printed in one scale can also be printed in others as well.  Keep in mind when you are looking at these items that many of them can not only be printed in a variety of plastics, but metals as well, including Brass, Copper, Silver , Steel, and even Gold. AFAIK all of the metal objects are produced by printing the item in soft plastic or wax and produced by investment casting. Very reasonable for this in most cases. Need furniture for Grandma's Farmhouse? No problem, just click and have it printed.

 

 

 

Here is a sample of what can be done via 3d printing. Also interesting is the fact that this shell is available in several scales including TT scale. This is available via Shapeways.

 

Jeff C

I'm something of a 3D printing evangelist at work, and what I tell people, in a nutshell, is this:

 

1) Think of the current state of home 3D printing (Makerbot, RepRap, PrinterBot, etc.) as where we were with paper printing in the dot matrix era. We haven't even made it to the inkjet stage yet for the home. 

 

2) I hear a lot, "This output isn't really good enough to sell." Correct. In its current state, 3D printing is not for production, it's for early prototyping and very small scale hobbyist experimentation. When you're ready for a better printout or low volume testing, go to Shapeways, Sculptio, iMaterialize, etc. For volumes, you still need to use serious industrial techniques, like injection molding. Printing has yet to beat the scalability of these techniques. It will probably get there, however. 

 

4) The uses of 3D printing are still being worked out. I see everything from kids building inexpensive artificial limbs for other kids (seriously) to airframe manufacturers experimenting with carbon fiber production parts, to organs (think liver and kidney, not pipe.)

 

I would love to see us start a library here for 3D models that we could print at home, instead of just uploading them to Shapeways where we can only buy the printed product, and can't really modify them or print them at home. (I get it that this is a revenue stream for designers. This is one area that has yet to be worked out.) 

 

Fred

Moonson Will let you know as soon as it arrives , this week I hope, coming from France!

James