Are you feeling the crunch of too many expensive items arriving all at once?

I agree with you, David.  Too many expensive items all shipping at the same time.

A year ago I seem to remember Lionel being very proud that they shipped the Big Boy "by the end of the year."  It looks like this year is also the year of shipping items by the end of the year.  From an accounting standpoint, it is nice to close the year by being able to book all of those sales.  That may be the motivating factor.

But, I do find it hard to believe that the factories in China were idle and then suddenly started churning out all of this product for shipment to the US at the same time.

Like you, I have passed on items from the most recent catalogs from Lionel, MTH and Atlas.  On the last Notch 6 podcast, I believe Mike Reagan indicated the new Lionel Catalog would be out in January.  I just can't see ordering much, if anything, from that catalog since I'm sure a lot of it will ship "by the end of the year."  I need a financial break from expensive trains next Christmas season.   

Grampstrains posted:

So, who was it that forced you to order all that stuff?

Read my post carefully, gramps.  I didn't say I ordered all that stuff.    In fact, I mentioned that I lamented NOT being able to order everything I may have "wanted".  

The point is a ton of very expensive items is hitting all at once.  And hopefully folks who did order them earlier this year -- however much or little they ordered -- have stashed away some funds in their piggy bank to help pay for these goodies now.  After all, it's also Christmastime too... so we're buying for others -- not just ourselves.  Get it???

David

VinceL posted:

...  On the last Notch 6 podcast, I believe Mike Reagan indicated the new Lionel Catalog would be out in January.  I just can't see ordering much, if anything, from that catalog since I'm sure a lot of it will ship "by the end of the year."  I need a financial break from expensive trains next Christmas season.   

Absolutely agree, Vince.  I'm fully expecting that the ONLY item I may be ordering out of Lionel's 2016 Volume 1 (Signature) catalog is the Bicentennial GG-1.  And if that's the case, then so be it.   I'm OK with that.

For planning purposes, I wish Lionel would have announced the GG-1 pricing with the product preview.  Lionel very well knows the price by now.  They've even admitted it.  But they're holding back on the price specifics until the catalog is published.  With all this product hitting at once, nobody wins with that type of thinking, and it's short-sighted at best.  Any information that we can use to plan our expenses for the year is always helpful.

David

Heck no, I'm filthy rich. My wife has six newspaper routes..........

PAUL ROMANO posted:

Hell no, I'm filthy rich. My wife has six newspaper routes..........

Thank goodness for layaway!

Honestly I purchased 2 Berks last Christmas and have been saving still for a new big boy. Otherwise I passed on all the other new releases.

Certainly would appear to make sense to release them throughout the year and let the consumer market absorb them. But I wonder how much control Lionel has over their manufacturing facilities, once their done ship it!

One of the reasons I don't order anything! 

I don't order items unless I have the funds to cover it.  I put that  money in a separate account until they arrive.

My fear for Lionel 2016 is the UP Excursion set will have matching Challengers-then I'm in trouble!

Oh yes David.

For me this year it was because I sort of forgot about Christmas time gifts . That may sound dumb but.  I mean all my three LionMasters and two Christmas sets were booom HERE.

Oh well still just adds to more fun this winter for me. And it didn't slow Christmas down one single bit

I'm still everybody's  favorite Santa Clause around here .

Larry

I kind of look at it this way.....Lionel and most of the other major manufacturers don't have a lot of control over when items are completed by their producers.  They have a basic schedule but as we all know those delivery schedules are thrown to the wind much of the time.....so one has to assume the worst scenario and order accordingly.  In my mind it doesn't matter if the items arrive at my doorstep throughout the year or within one month.  The cost and hit to the wallet is the same and the key is to order what one can afford just in case one has to pay for it all at once.  To expect  Lionel or for that matter any of the manufacturers to deliver product to every customer based on "wallet shock" is simply an exercise in futility....  Welcome to BTO...!!

I agree you can only run so much and collect so much then all you have is a room full of trains and no money to get them running I found out that its not the trains you run its the layout you run them on I have passed on many items from mth and lionel I have also found out that there are many people looking to sell there stuff in hopes to getting the latest and greatest so I hold back and wait and I get a nice piece maybe a little run time but still in great shape for less money and it gives me time to save my money for I believe is the best part of model trains running them

Just the opposite, I'm looking for things to buy

But...I'm being particular in what I want, mainly older, well detailed, somewhat accurate (for Seaboard Air Line or Atlantic Coast Line) steam that I can get at good prices and upgrade to BPRC.  I've been fortunate with Williams/Samhongsa brass the past year or 2, but they only made so many different types I can use.  Same for passenger cars, a nice, accurate, detailed SAL or ACL set would do the trick.

The rolling stock I want is a mix of different RRs, but after getting the $80 Atlas Covered Hopper I may put limits on buying too many more.  Maybe I'll start looking into brass offerings for rolling stock and limit myself to a couple/year, I have enough as it is, but we all know how that goes.

Welcome to BTO...!!

That's the truth for sure.

Larry

86TA355SR posted:

I don't order items unless I have the funds to cover it.  I put that  money in a separate account until they arrive.

My fear for Lionel 2016 is the UP Excursion set will have matching Challengers-then I'm in trouble!

That's how I do it.   When I order, I assume it will all hit at once, and I keep a separate interest bearing account for extra curricular things like trains, etc...

Fortunately, today's insane pricing does away with any chance of me being overwhelmed with new arrivals.  The distasteful pig in a poke practice of BTO keeps a firm focus on the economical and predictable purchases from the used market.  You're all welcome to BTO, but I'll pass.

Bruce

I've enjoyed reading everyone's response. I'm the lucky one I guess. I have not had to order anything for five-years. That's the advantage of collecting prewar. "Merry Christmas Everyone" May God Richly Bless Each of you.

Forgive me for being simple, but what does BTO  mean?

MattR posted:

Forgive me for being simple, but what does BTO  mean?

Built To Order. Apparently the days of overproducing and dealers slashing price to move inventory are over.

I recently completed putting up my train shelves and after all these years unpacked every item I own.  Looking back I can see I bought things I really do not need.  How many of the same engine or rolling stock type do I need?  I couldn't even remember what I had, haha.  I think this hobby tends to be out of control for spending.  Now that I can actually see my collection (instead of in boxes in a closet) I have total control of what I really need.  If I had not done that I probably would of bought all the stuff coming out.  Now I'm just getting the ESE set and that's it.  I agree manufacturers should get better control of production.  It's just too much at once.  But with BTO they probably don't care because the orders are already locked in for them and they get paid no matter what.  It's the dealers that have to wait for their money if buyers can't afford all the stuff at once.    I wont put it on credit cards.  I refuse to pay interest on toys.  This has been Lionel's best year as far as accurate shipping schedule but it's curious why it all comes in December every year.  And it's always the expensive items.  I have only been buying for about 7 years but I'm already scaling back.  Only special items I don't have will be on my list anymore.  If I can't fit it on my layout or on the display shelves why buy it?  I probably would of bought the ESE set and some es44s and mikados etc if they were a month apart because it seems less expensive psychologically but by bombarding all at once and adding up what I would spend in one visit to the train store gave me a wake up call, to cut back.   If you want to save some money open up all your collection and lay it out and you will not want to buy every new item that comes out anymore.��  

With Lionel at least, it's best to plan ahead with these familiar patterns.

Last year, I planned to preorder one item, and I did the same last year, both from Volume 1, and managed to pay for both as scheduled.

That's not to say I almost wasn't ready, but managed to come out okay for the next year. Added to the fact that very little I want is in the Volume 2 catalogs pretty much tells me I WILL be paying for whatever I order during the Christmas season.

This is a time of year for giving to others (not that I limit to giving just during the holidays). I find the timing of the shipments to be financially burdensome due to the fact that I am buying for other people and giving to other entities to a much greater extent at this time of year versus other times of the year. I would much rather have the mega shipments such as the one currently from Lionel take place over the summer months. That way there is recovery time and not so conflicted with the holidays. 

Too many O gauge train bills at once, Yes.  But its self inflected pain.  Totally my fault.

It's likely that a good number of those who are "feeling the crunch of too many expensive items arriving all at once" may be buying too much, and already have more than they can reasonably use.

It can be hard, but sometimes you just need to walk away. 

Are you feeling the crunch of too many expensive items arriving all at once?  Nope, never have and never will.  I have enough financial savvy to know not to spend money on "wants" unless the money is in my pocket.

No.

And I've been around this place long enough to know that -- very often -- the peeps who say they'll "never order" anything from the new catalog will be the first ones crowing about some unforseen must haves when it's released.   That's just the way it works!

No. I order based on anticipated delivery and budgeted financial hit so I don't have to worry about it.

SandJam posted:

If you want to save some money open up all your collection and lay it out and you will not want to buy every new item that comes out anymore.��  

 

 

Some sage advice. 

Fortunately, no.

 A big reason for that comes down to a great example of the communication on this forum.  

I had a few things on order earlier this year to include the Harriman 6-car set + 2 from GGD.

I'm pretty disciplined on items I'll purchase, however,  panic time hit as I was budgeting and a lot of things started coming in at once.  I worried I'd have to cancel some items or use credit (eeek!) to cover my commitments.  

I was relieved when Scott posted clear information on his estimated targets for each model's production schedule.  It became so much easier to plan my purchases.  I realized I didn't have to sit on the cash I'd put aside for that set right now and I would have enough time to budget over the next few months for them.   This freed up available funds for me to cover my other pre-orders coming in.  Also, more importantly, I was able to move on an immediate opportunity that presented itself to pick up some items I had been searching forever when I recently found them (ex// OMI Pacific/3rd Rail Mikado).  

I know each manufacturer deals with multiple production issues and is worried about negative feedback from customers when challenges arise, or losing a prospective purchase.  

People might not like everything they're told, but serious people really appreciate honest communication.  I'm sure there's plenty more examples from other manufacturers and LHS's.

Yes ..My Jan 2016 Credit Card bill will probably arrive on a pallet. Nick

Let's see what is happening to me

1. I am 500 in the hole, maybe 700 now

2. My Ten Wheeler is back from the shops now I have to pay off my repair fees

3.Mark, it's your fault!!!! Menard's has made some Army stuff!

I am feeling the crunch to complain....

I hate that Lionel catalogs expensive items months before shipping them.

I hate that Lionel only builds most of their expensive items to order and therefore if I want to purchase an expensive item I have to "commit" to purchasing it months before it arrives to my retailer.

I hate that Lionel is constantly late on delivering items and consequently forces me to wait longer to pay for the item.

I hate waiting for what feels like an eternity for the item, my only consolation is the existence of this forum which allows me to vent my frustration.

I hate when Lionel ships the items I ordered at the same time.

I hate this hobby, no wait I enjoy the hobby, I just enjoy complaining about it more than the hobby itself.

I hate the idea of new products being advertised in January.  Why would Lionel release another catalog so soon after delivering so many products in December?  Who is running that company?  Delivering all this stuff right before Christmas, clearly they don't have a clue about consumer purchasing habits. Nobody does any shopping before Christmas.  They are such idiots!

I buy starter sets only (particularly MTH) which gives me good value, lots of track and power all in one box. It also allows me a relatively inexpensive way to add different railroads to my layouts.

I do tend to buy a bunch at once, around this time of year. But like many of you my wife and I have "mad money" accounts and we buy what we want with that.

Grampstrains posted:

Unfortunately, the only thing I get is that you like to complain.  Enjoy yourself.

Not even close to what this thread is about.    Between you and T4TT, you both can fight over all the coal Santa's gonna leave in your stockings. 

rockstars1989 posted:

Yes ..My Jan 2016 Credit Card bill will probably arrive on a pallet. Nick

Now THATS funny!

SandJam posted:

...  If I can't fit it on my layout or on the display shelves why buy it?    ...

That's exactly the criteria I used a few years ago when I decided to start my "collection thinning" for-sale threads here on the forum.  I purchased many trains over the years with plans for a grand layout.  And while I'm in the beginning phases of what I hope will be a grand layout consisting of Standard Gauge and O-Gauge trains, it's clear I can still stand to thin a few more items off the roster.  If you think O-Gauge takes up space, you should see how quickly space gets consumed by Standard Gauge trains.  I've already been VERY selective of which Standard Gauge trains I purchase. 

Best cure for over-purchasing IS building a layout. 

Now granted... sometimes we might work a corporate job that keeps us traveling year-round.  Or we may live in a townhouse for years with plans to one day build that dream home with a dedicated basement for the trains.  Once we get to that stage, reality can set in VERY quickly when -- like you said -- you lay all the boxes out on the floor... only to realize that you could probably have gotten by with 1/5 of the purchases.

David

I am with Delbridge.  For the last several times I have taken $ to York, and brought it home, as nothing rang my chimes.  I look through the catalogues, but I also read verious magazines and books on railroads, and what is in the catalogues is not what is in the books, not the right roadnames, etc., and I have bought nothing from the catalogues. I  have bought a couple of Menard's buildings, and other O scale building kits.  There are a number of things, some probably expensive, if they existed, that I would spring for......They don't exist.

OGR Ad Man posted:

I kind of look at it this way.....Lionel and most of the other major manufacturers don't have a lot of control over when items are completed by their producers.  They have a basic schedule but as we all know those delivery schedules are thrown to the wind much of the time.....so one has to assume the worst scenario and order accordingly.  ...

Alan, I think you hit the nail on the head.  Today's importers appear to have very little control over exactly when product is manufactured.  They'd like us to "think" they do.  But if we listen closely, we can get a sense that dealing with the overseas factories has become a full-time job on a good day.  Throw in the realities of stuff not always working out as planned -- not to mention things we can't even imagine... and that full-time job becomes a job for 5 people. 

Generally speaking, I think December has always been a "big" month for toy/model train deliveries.  But years ago, basic diesel locomotives didn't carry a $650 MSRP.  And basic steam engines didn't carry a $1,500 MSRP.  Today... look out!!!

BTW, I don't think Lionel's ESE set was that  badly priced... considering folks are getting a top-notch loco with 4 new 21" ABS cars at under $1600 (for those who pre-ordered earlier this year).  The ala-carte steamers have a street-price of $1260 or thereabouts.  So the set is a "good deal" for folks who don't already own ESE passenger cars.  Pre-ordering this set was the way to go, because now dealers will likely push the street-price upwards.  I don't think we'll see those pre-order prices of $1550 (or so) now that product has hit the street.  In fact a number of these products that were shipped this week already have a bit of a "premium" price tag up from the pre-order prices.   Not all of them... but enough to make life interesting (and unpredictable).  So the BTO pre-order vs. "waiting-to-see-the-product" dilemma continues onward...

Oh well... Back to wrapping presents now... it's officially Christmas Eve (Eastern Standard Time).  Merry Christmas everyone!!!

David

David,

Even though the noticeable increase of Lionel's product isn't exactly welcome, it really isn't too different from the prices Lionel had in the prewar era.

The original 700E had a price tag of $75, which would've been about $1500 today. Same with the Rail Chief set which would've been $1950 today vs. the 1937 $97.50 price.

Bottom  line is, Lionel has always been an expensive product, especially when it comes to top of the line product. As much as we would like Lionel to be more competitive with its prices, it's a fact that old habits die hard.

Once was enough for me - I generally don't pre-order for this reason.  Yes, my LHS usually gets them anyway, and yes, I still WANT them, but at least I'm not obligated to buy.  If things are tight, I can at least have that "want vs. need" conversation with myself.   I won't lie; "want" usually wins