I can see what Santiago is referring to here - the front truck does appear lower on the wheel block if I'm describing this correctly. Am not familiar with the Atlas units but would gather that the truck sides screw onto something (posts?) that determines their position on the wheel/axel frames. Sounds like it is an easy repair as illustrated above on the PRR units.
Pingman posted:I won't pretend to know what "Corporate America" thinks. But corporations have a duty to their shareholders to use resources wisely. And the additional costs of relocating manufacturing (real estate, construction, capital expense for new equipment, training, etc.) domestically (as happened with factories moving South) or overseas are surely considered by any competent corporate leadership group.
I'm sure when Atlas ships these they will be fine.
Now having been at a few Shareholder Meetings, the best are where they ended poorly. One guy asked the CEO how he deserved a raise when they sold almost half the company. The response was "I made you billions of dollars" and the shareholder replied "So again, how does a guy doing half the work get a raise?" They cut his mike off. Another asked about the section in the mailing saying some execs received bonuses they did not deserve, how did the company and auditors allow it and what was being done to recoup the unearned management bonuses? Hearing both the CEO and lead auditors responses left you thinking that like a record made of wax, they were never coming back...
Some very good points. Yes the money has already been paid in advance. You are still going to get your locomotive. Many in this hobby have the means to play with these expensive toys. We have to put things in perspective. Toy train makers are not large companies and the business is not that lucrative to entice more manufacturers to join the game. Atlas is a small company making some nice prototypical locomotives for us. It wouldn't take much of a mistake, an over-commitment, a turn in business, etc. to put them out of business. Would you rather share the risk by paying in advance to assure them still being around or would you like to be speaking of them in the past tense? Is the delay that big of a deal? Would you rather have them deliver a product that does not meet your expectations and complain after the fact? Bottom line, everyone needs to temper their childhood anxiousness for their new toy and let the company deliver the best product possible (I said best possible because China is still in the equation).
As for Steve, he is trying to be transparent and communicating what is being communicated to him by the manufacturer. Faulting him in anyway for that transparency is completely misdirected.
Imagine ordering F-18 or F-35's. Their delivery is delayed and the manufacturer charges you more and more money for the product. At least we will finally have a president that will take that issue to task. Be glad Boeing isn't making our locomotives.
He said earlier it is 1 mm off. You can't see that?
Something not mentioned yet is the growing uncertainty of delivery of product from China in general. Have been watching the confirmation hearings today and Mr Tillerson has been questioned about relations with China as they continue to engage in island building in the South China Sea which has been determined as illegal in Hague.
Tensions with Taiwan and the good possibility of Trump being favorable towards Taiwan will be another 'irritant' to the China regime. Things may radically change with China in the upcoming months and all our trains may get stuck there for who knows how long?
I'm going to post this as a new topic so as not to hijack this thread so please comment there for clarity. Thought I would mention it here because of how this relates to expecting delivery of these handsome locomotives as well as any new upcoming releases.
William 1 posted:He said earlier it is 1 mm off. You can't see that?
Who can't?
"Atlas....why did you add the "eye brow" and nose grab irons after the York Demos did not have them? So if you are going to make new shells....please remove them. Details are much easier to add for later versions, instead of trying to remove, fill, and match paint colors."
Please leave those details off the engine. I was happy that you were doing a pretty much as delivered pre-1960 version. I will be VERY disappointed if the replacement shells have the eye brow and nose grabs. Lionel and 3rd Rail have both done F7's that way. It's your chance to be both different and original Atlas.
I also want to commend you on not releasing these engines until correct. Not all importers are so conscientious.
One disappointing issue with the eye brows and post 1960 look is that a prototypical modeler wouldn't be able to run the engines with the '51 - '53 3rd Rail Super Chief cars which had an observation. The observation was removed around 1957. The Atlas F7's didn't show up until 1960. Modeling the classic Super Chief has been a real pain. The most accurate engines I can think of are still the Lionel F3's from around 10 years back.
Santiagop23,
I truly respect your modeling skills and passion for accuracy and details. I admire the magnificent work you did on your Rio Grande F-units.
But for me, 1mm difference between the front and rear trucks on the Atlas F7's fall in the range of acceptable variance. Considering that thickness of a dime is 1.35mm I can live that. To put in scale terms and explain in better for our forum members (most of whom are not on the metric system): A dime is .053 inches thick. In O-Scale terms (.053 x 48 = 2.544 scale inches). So the difference between the gap on the front and rear trucks on these units is 2.544 scale inches.
This is one nit that I choose not to pick. 
If I am missing something... PLEASE let me know. Thanks.
I looked at some of my Atlas F's yesterday and all of the A's I checked had the problem. I never noticed the 1mm difference before but when I looked, it became pretty annoying. It is not so much the distance but the angle of the body that is visually the problem.
john handlogten posted:I looked at some of my Atlas F's yesterday and all of the A's I checked had the problem. I never noticed the 1mm difference before but when I looked, it became pretty annoying. It is not so much the distance but the angle of the body that is visually the problem.
Yes, you can definitely see it on the Burlington 9960C posted by Santiagop23 that the body sits a bit higher on the front end of the A unit.
Joe
SantafeJim, thank you for the kind words. Again, I love Atlas, and this is not a deal breaker for me either, but unless we point stuff up we O scalers are going to continue to get engines that need so much work to bring up to certain standards.
I'll probably get a atsf set when they re run it, im sure they'll look beautiful.
Well at least the 1mm isn't as bad as 4mm like this TMCC E6A 
Even a blind man can see the angle this thing sits at right out of the box.
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LOS,
Did you do some grinding and filing to ease and/or eliminate the 4mm difference? Did it mess with the clearance between the bottom of the pilot and the rail head?
I looked at the pictures and even enlarged them on my iPad and could not see the 1mm difference.
I understand Santaigo that the difference can and should be corrected on the next run. This would not make me not buy this run though.
Your talents are beyond anything I could do so kudos for finding this difference, your amazing.
Dave
Nice looking E6's Doug 
The only discrepancy I saw in the pics was santiagop23 pointing out the front truck brake cylinders appear to be mounted lower than the rear. It should be an easy fix. I am waiting for my a-b-a set to come from the Muffin man. So far the pictures show A big improvement from the Lionel legacy units with their rediculous over added details and those yellow LEDs as marker lights. I may have to sell those-although I like the breakdown b unit.
I hope that Atlas O offers the demo paint scheme for this model. I will be "all in" for that one!
SantaFeJim posted:LOS,
Did you do some grinding and filing to ease and/or eliminate the 4mm difference? Did it mess with the clearance between the bottom of the pilot and the rail head?
No Jim I didn't fix it. RonH just completed his E6's and told me what a nightmare it was taking that thing apart and getting it back together to straighten the frame, and lower the front end. He did a fabulous job. I made the spacer to lower the pilot, where Ron being able to lower them, eliminated the requirement for a spacer. It would/did create a clearance problem on the inside. Same when I lowered my F3's. Had to do some grinding on the shell to clear flywheels and remove part of the cab interior. There's a couple ways to skin a cat with these things.... I usually take the easy route.
Speaking of the passenger pilots discussed above, if you are getting the Atlas CB&Q F3's you may wanna look at my Q F3 passenger pilots for Expo/CZ trains. I built these from P&D parts and will go on my Atlas Q F3's soon.
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SANTIAGOP23 -
Like all of your work these are OUTSTANDING !!!
If I was getting the "Q" I would be begging you to build me a set.
My payment for the Atlas F7s was refunded. After seeing the grab irons being added to the sides of the nose and eye brows, I'm thinking I'm just going to cancel my order. I'm done just "accepting" things from any of these manufacturers for the prices they charge. Santa Fe or not, it's still $1500.
Laidoffsick posted:My payment for the Atlas F7s was refunded. After seeing the grab irons being added to the sides of the nose and eye brows, I'm thinking I'm just going to cancel my order. I'm done just "accepting" things from any of these manufacturers for the prices they charge. Santa Fe or not, it's still $1500.
Doug,
The "addition" of those grab irons may very well be the reason that they were rejected by Jerry Kimbel (who is an avid Santa Fe modeler). The new/corrected bodies should be OK.
Well I sure hope so and did email Jerry last week. Haven't got a reply but I'm sure he was flooded with emails from those of us a little particular about our Santa Fe stuff.
Laidoffsick posted:Well I sure hope so and did email Jerry last week. Haven't got a reply but I'm sure he was flooded with emails from those of us a little particular about our Santa Fe stuff.
Interesting... it would be nice if Atlas-O reps would chime in here -- just to explain exactly what they didn't like about the F7 Santa Fe A-units shipped from their overseas factory that ultimately caused them to hold off shipping to consumers.
David
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Laidoffsick posted:Well I sure hope so and did email Jerry last week. Haven't got a reply but I'm sure he was flooded with emails from those of us a little particular about our Santa Fe stuff.
Interesting... it would be nice if Atlas-O reps would chime in here -- just to explain exactly what they didn't like about the F7 Santa Fe A-units shipped from their overseas factory that ultimately caused them to hold off shipping to consumers.
David
David,
I agree, this topic is going on 8 days and not a peep from Atlas other than to say indirectly they are delayed. Not good customer relations.
Bill S. said today that the grab irons were an issue. Added to the Santa Fe F7A engines where they did no belong. Talked him about returning my two Santa Fe U23B #6324 and 6330 that both lost sound.
SantaFeJim posted:SANTIAGOP23 -
Like all of your work these are OUTSTANDING !!!
If I was getting the "Q" I would be begging you to build me a set.
I appreciate the kind words! Thank you
Obviously the main discussion of this thread has been the delay of the Santa Fe F7s, has any body received there F7s yet in the other Rd names Atlas has brought in ?
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Railrunnin posted:If your big problem is a toy train being delayed a couple months, please get on your knees right now and thank the good Lord for your blessings.
...
Before anyone reads more into my post(s) than was originally stated (as some of you obviously love to do), please allow me to cross a few T's and dot some I's for those jumping to conclusions.
I don't CARE that Atlas-O ran into a glitch and needs to delay shipment of these locomotives. There are far more serious issues we ALL will deal with in life. I can't even remember when these locomotives were announced, so another 3 or 6 months isn't gonna make a difference. I'm not even criticizing Atlas-O for holding shipment of the locomotives until they receive the replacement shells. It's better they do that rather than ship replacement shells directly to consumers. I'm sure Atlas-O is working the issue to its best ability, as we'd all prefer they "get it right the first time" for consumers.
All that being said, I simply stated Atlas-O and the dealers get to take revenue when the product is right and ready to ship. Nothing more and nothing less is implied. Does that help you feel any better?
David
Touch a nerve David?
Funny thing is my reply was not directed at anyone in particular, merely stating it is stupid how a toy train being delivered late can bunch some people's panties into a wad. It's only been that way for the last twenty years ...
But feel free to make any other assumptions.
Paul
Hi Guys,
I lov all of above dissertations. After all has been said and everything has been discussed the past several days, here is my bottom line!!!
WHEN WILL MY 4 DRG&W DIESELS BE RESTING UPON MY THREASHOLD???
My best regards,
Tommy
I'm also hoping that four Rio Grande units will cross my threshold soon, ready to join the F-3's already at work.
Its been 2 weeks since Steve announced the Atlas situation with the SF units, I would think by now the remaining F7 rd name units would have been shipped to dealers/ customers . just saying !
Very odd situation to say the least -- especially if everything is currently sitting in NJ. And all seems unusually quiet on the Atlas-O front as well. 
The last update to the website shipping matrix appears to be 1/16/2017 for a track/railjoiner accessory piece. Surely these F7's are more high profile than that. 
David
I am getting impatient. Paid for my Rio Grande ABBA a month ago when they were just arriving at Atlas O.
Two sources have told me that each new F7 unit has been opened and inspected. That would be a sight to see. Engines, boxes, and shipping cartons opened, then repacked securely to send them on their way. I know how long it takes me to carefully open and unpack an engine, then re-pack it safely. I can't imagine doing it with hundreds of engines.
Supposedly some F7s headed to the west coast yesterday, January 23, 2017.
Just got my email from Mr. Muffin that my Milw Road F7's are being shipped to me today.
Received an email from Steve asking to confirm address for shipment. Looking forward to seeing the Amtrak Units pull into the station this week.
Paul
Just paid Steve for my Amtrak units, can't wait.
Miketg
Anyone speak with Atlas at Amherst about what was wrong with the SF units?
John Rowlen posted:... Two sources have told me that each new F7 unit has been opened and inspected. That would be a sight to see. Engines, boxes, and shipping cartons opened, then repacked securely to send them on their way. I know how long it takes me to carefully open and unpack an engine, then re-pack it safely. I can't imagine doing it with hundreds of engines.
...
While I applaud efforts to do a quality review like this, have we heard why they're scrutinizing each locomotive unit like this here in the states? Seems more productive to have a QA person who works for Atlas check these locomotives over in the factory BEFORE they're packed. What am I missing here?
Of course, the silence on Atlas-O's end is deafening and doesn't help at all. The month of January has pretty much come and gone already!!!
David
My Milwaukee Road ABA set is on the way from Steve...psyched to see 'em!
David when you predicted we wouldn't recieve the F7s until May or June I felt that that was a very good prediction and I agreed with you. I am just happy that mine should arrive this week a minimum of 3 months early.
Question, when Atlas does this quality check do they inspect the locomotive just for cosmetic imperfections or do they also put it on the track and put it through its paces to make sure the motors, gears, lights, and electronics are working properly?
