Big Boy Rumor

Well, it is now in TRAINS magazine:

http://trn.trains.com/en/Railr...UMKS_l5SVhQ.facebook

This WILL be interesting!

 like id said the one in CA is the prime candate for the restoration....wow Id called that one write.. 

I posted that link to Trains a page and a half ago.....Well the 4014 back in steam...or another 4000 holy cr@!   Time to serve crow....gulp.  So here is the $$ question, who will have ownership?

I say I dont give a darn whos owns it!!  Just want to see that beast run after 50 years of collecting dust..and hope to get a ride in the cab!!

Yes you did, some people don't read everything before they comment. The crow of course was my idea at the bottom of page 2.

It has to end up in the hands of the UP. They have the facilities, the experienced people, the money, and most important the track. The big question now is the compensation to get someone to give their's up.

let alone if they need parts  for restoration or parts if bigboy breaks down..there going to need a donor bigboys for parts.. 

I don't care who owns it either, just curious and interested to hear how it all plays out.

Yes Elliot I saw your earlier post....I read it. And before this runs wild, it was an observation and a remark pointing it out, not a dig, a rip, a busting of chops just an observation.  I would think UP would want ownership from a control stand point and with regards to the $$$ that will be spent....again it will be interesting to see how this all goes....either way it is sure to be an exciting occasion for many.

Sorry Chris, I kind of figured you had read it.

This fits pretty well with what we have heard today.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

I'm going to bed. When I get up, maybe it'll be Christmas.

One final thought: This is being billed as a "public relations gesture". Maybe this is where all of those licensing fees, we modelers have been forking over all these years, are going. 

I could live with that.

No big deal Elliot, that's the problem with the internet...you can't hear the tone of voice and such, thats why I wanted to clarify my statement also. Some good reading there...I like their site.  Hears another thought, can you imagine a triple header with the 844 and 3985?....Now that would be an awesome sight.

I had always said it was just a matter of time before they brought one of those things back to life. What I don't understand is all the snickering and incredulousness. Has this really been that bad of a foamer topic in the past?

The best deal in history.

Folks like Rich and Hot Water have been down in the trenches of rail preservation for decades. for every victory, there are 100 defeats. As for myself, I'll believe this when that 4-8-8-4 completes its first excursion. Rail preservationists and disappointment are like ham and eggs.

Yes, it has, along with the NYC Hudson hidden in a barn in Indiana.

The 4018 in Dallas was supposed to be restored to operation for a movie in 1999.  Some info about that pipe-dream is here:

http://www.trainweb.org/jlsrr/...18/bigboy%204018.htm

A lot can happen between now and whenever a first steam up would occur.  With any park locomotive, nothing is certain until it's taken apart and thoroughly inspected.

Rusty

Years ago I heard a story from a U.P. Engineer that when #4023 was being moved in Omaha, Steve Lee tried convincing the higher ups to let him have it for restoration.

Don't know if it's true..just a something that's been back in my mind.

Actually there has been a lot of "smoke blown up somebody's butt" on this subject! First, the UP doesn't actually have "an Engineering Staff", especially one that knows ANYTHING about a steam locomotive, let alone a 4000 class.

Second, those "professionals" in the "big steam business" all tend to agree that the 4014 in LA County is one of the WORST of the eight 4000 class locomotives saved.

Also, those of you interested in the 9000 (4-12-2), also on display with the 4014, should know that the 9000 is a plain bearing locomotive, and she had quite a bit of axle bearing troubles on her trip west to LA. In fact, three of the 12 main crown bearings gave so much trouble that the weight had to be taken off them due to overheating. Those of you interested can crawl under #9000 to this day, and find those particular crown bearings STILL UP ON BLOCKS!

...More like Scrapple and eggs!!

KD

Here is #4017 at the museum in Green Bay. Does anyone know what kind of shape she's in?

Here is a listing of all the engines and some observations about their condition. By no means are these "professional observations" but they do give you a general idea

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

thank you, Chris!

thats another prime canadate..I know Ca was threre first choice because it s in less humid weather and closer distance.. next ones where the ones kept inside..you also got to remember there going to need some donors bigboys for parts for the rebuild and when they get her running if she breaks down you need parts for replacement for the repair work too..

Wow Chris!!! This site is great. I'm a newbie so sharing is wonderful. Much appreciated.

Steve

Hot Water, that's an interesting comment considering that Union Pacific is one of the nation's largest railroads, and they run the 844 and 3985. And considering that your former long-term employer EMD has gone down the toilet in market share for new locomotives.

I used to work in the engineering department of Union Pacific Railroad in Omaha and Union Pacific has been one of EMD's largest customers through the decades. Perhaps a little statesmanship would be in order next time.

I'm beginning to get a little overstuffed on popcorn. I may have to switch to scrapple! 

Call me an amused observer...

It will be exciting if it happens, although it's very surprising this idea got any traction at Union Pacific. It's a big corporate expense, and they already have to finance two large steamers, not to mention a Centennial and the E-9s. There were even rumors UP might scotch their steam program.

They could say they have the world's largest steam engine running (largest in some ways, but not all, of course), but 99.8% of the public doesn't know the difference between the Challenger and the Big Boy. The management and board of directors at Norfolk Southern don't think it makes any business sense to have even one active steam locomotive in a steam program, nor does any other railroad, yet UP is ready to pony up for another, and a massive investment like the Big Boy? I know the UP has an ego, but this is unexpected.

Could be that this BB will be made operational for this event, and then be put back into hibernation, but who knows.

OK, maybe I'm totally confused in the interpretation of this, but NS just finished operating somewhere in the vicinity of 6,000 miles behind NKP 765 and SR 630 this year.

They are simply leasing as opposed to owning and rebuilding their own, but I'd say NS is well committed to steam at the moment.

Kevin

The ownership issue is not as big an issue as many are making it out to be, The 4449 is NOT owned by the Friends of the 4449, or by Doyle either, The 4449, the SP&S 700 and the 197( currently under restoration to operating condition) are all OWNED by the City of PORTLAND, OR. I don't know all the details, but the city and the respective groups that maintain and operate those locomotives do seem to be able to work together, with some Excellent results. I can understand how the UP MIGHT, prefer to own which ever Big Boy is possibly restored, but it is in no way a requirement for a project like this.

 The trains article states that the locomotive would be converted to oil burning, yes in the past UP tried converting the 4005 to oil, and for reasons not released that I know of, they were not happy with the results. The 4005 oil conversion was documented as having only used ONE burner, whereas the Challengers used THREE burners, why only one burner was never said to my knowledge, might have been a single much larger burner than the three used in the Challengers. I would imagine that an oil burner, or set of muliple burners could be built that would be suitable, after all it is the HEAT produced, not the fuel that is important, with enough MONEY almost anything is possible, and building an oil burner is definitely in that realm.

 In the past the UP has been dead set AGAINST a Big Boy ever running under it's own power again, but time has a way changing almost everything, there have been changes in UP management over the years, possibly the attitude regarding a Big Boy with a fire in her belly running on home rails has changed as well, I for one HOPE so, it could happen, and I will wait and see. It would be a long term project and even if it did get started, another future change in management could kill it again before it is finished.

 Lets Hope for the Best, and that this project comes to fruition, but don't prepay for your first ride excursion ticket yet.

Doug

I can't see the UP putting all this money and time into a 4000 that they do not own....UP likes the control and I don't blame them.  As for the earlier conversion of the 4005 yes they used only one burner from an FEF I believe....I have heard everything from it didn't provide enough heat to the conversion could not be justified because it offered no real savings.  

     The UP may have an ego but they are also the only class 1 with their original name, the only class 1 with an active steam program, the only class 1 with a locomotive to have never been retired, plus operating the largest steam locomotive, the 4000's were UP's feather in the cap if you will, if this goes through they will hands down be the leader in steam operations.....not to mention operating the largest steam.  Now maybe NS doesn't want to foot the entire bill and such but they are running a steam program with the TVRM and spending $$$ on it.  Now just because CSX, BNSF choose not to means nothing, UP wants to and does, they see a value with it.    

Sure don't know where you got your information but, those Challengers that were converted to oil burning for passenger service had only ONE BURNER. When 3985 was converted from coal burning to oil burning, back in 1989/90, original UP mechanical dept. drawings where used, and the burner plus the oil bunker and associated piping for the tender where ALL "borrowed" from oil burning Challenger #3977, which is on display at North Platte, Nebraska.

Having fired 3985 for more than 15 years as an oil burner, I am here to tell you that she has only ONE BURNER!

I'm beginning to get a little overstuffed on popcorn. I may have to switch to scrapple!   

How about a Big Boy Excursion Set and/or a Freight Set with a Scrapple Car?

Maple Donuts would be appropriate, too - two York staples.

stick to popcorn, Scrapple causes heartburn.

If PRR didnt scraped the S1 ,the Bigboy wouldnt be the worlds largest steam engine still left..this is a Very hot topic on all train and model train websites!!

Of course there are those who say the C&O Allegheny is the largest steam locomotive.

Hot water:

     Having fired the 3985, how much more difficult would it be to fire a 4000?  Also, is there any trackage left that could handle it's tremendous weight-772,000 lbs? Are the bridges, clearances, etc. able to handle it?  I am a Big Boy fanatic ( including AC's, Yellowstones etc.) and I would love to see it run.  

Heaviest, and most powerful maybe.

OK, lets take your questions in order:

1) The 4000 class where well noted for the better steam capabilities over the 3900 class Challengers, however THAT was burning coal in BOTH. The 3985 was quite a bit easier to fire as a coal burner than as an oil burner. Thus, I suspect a 4000 on the "lighter" oil we have today, even with twin burners, would NOT be a fun time, with a heavy train on a long ascending grade.

2) The weight vs todays trackage would NOT ba a problem, since it comes down to axle loadings. There are many freight cars today, plus diesel electric units, that have axle loadings HEAVIER than a 4000 class steam locomotive.

3) Clearance is the REALLY BIG issue with a 4000! the boiler overhang on curves is tremendous, and todays lines, outside of the original UP between Cheyenne and Ogden, are NOT conducive to handling a 4000.

4) Concern Southern Pacific Cab-Forwards, the only one remaining 4-8-82 (#4294) is NOT in real good shape, even though it inside the California State Railroad Museum. The ONLY yellowstone locomotives remaining are in Minn. and aren't going any place! Now a C&O H-8 would be a different story, since their axle loadings approach 80,000 lbs. and the two remaining aren't going anyplace either. Too bad there isn't an SP AC-9 remaining.

I heard the Elby's Big Boy is coming back to Wheeling, WV.

Larry

Living in Ogden I don't see a problem with that

Although dragging it from LA to Cheyenne could be an adventure

Who is the 3rd party supposed to be involved? As long there is no tax dollars involved in the rebuilding, running, storage, maintenance, etc. then I'm in for the Union Pacific and other private entity's to spend their dollars as they wish.