Big Boy Rumor

Well, as much as I love the Big Boy, I'm going to sit back and wait, probably a long time, to see what happens.

Would I Love to see her under steam? Absolutely, and I'd pay money to ride in the cab. Ride behind her? You bet, but 4000's were Freight engines, I'd weep to see a pure passenger consist there.

And Ogden to Cheyenne sounds fine to me. Not too far from where I grew up to either one (speaking of remote places).

Ogden to Cheyenne would be a two day trip, with an over-night stay in Green River/Rock Springs, WY. Would be well with it!

The press release posted by Superwarp at the top of this page is a perfect example of the WRONG way to publicize the news about this.

All the little behind-the-scenes details of the negotiations should not be disclosed on a public forum. They should get the deal done, finalize EVERYTHING, and THEN announce to the public what IS going to happen. Instead they are publishing what they HOPE will happen, without any deal being struck.

This piecemeal approach to PR is amateur hour at its finest. 

It does seem like they don't even have the ducks yet, let alone line them up in a row.

Maybe they'll move the 4014 a few feet and ring the bell, just like what happened with the 4018 in Dallas to great fanfare.  Then everybody goes home.

Rusty

Well Rich, this is EXACTLY what happens when "somebody" from the UP Steam Crew goes out and "discusses" a potential "plan" or "idea" with an open floor meeting involving the members of the R&LHS!

Just dumb!!!

I don't understand why any party in the mix would want to discuss this prematurely.  There is a lot at stake here, for Pomona their star attraction and for the UP a lot of flippin $$$$, time and effort.  Now someone is spilling the beans about whats going on and quite frankly it's nobodys business what is going on.  I would think the UP would want this kept under wraps until a deal is made and until Pomona can rest assured that they will get plenty back in return.     

I don't know the players as well as you do Jack, but it certainly seems that things are not being handled very professionally.

If I may break my arm by patting myself and my fellow 765 crew mates on the back for a moment, here's how we handle it in Fort Wayne. Right now - TODAY - I know where the 765 is going to be on NS in 2013, including several trips around Horseshoe Curve. But you will not see anything in public about the 765's 2013 schedule until EVERYTHING is finalized with Norfolk Southern and NS has given their approval to go public with the details.

I understand that publishing the 765's 2013 schedule does not reach the level of interest and excitement that bringing a Big Boy back to life will generate, but the principle should be the same. You don't announce anything publicly until is it a DONE DEAL.

It's sort of like making and eating sausage. You can certainly enjoy the end product, but you don't want to see it being made. 

Well said, Rich! Treat yourself to a plate of scrapple - with syrup!

YUM  YUM

I think restoring a Big Boy is a Big Waste of money. The Challenger should be on the

fast track for "on the road again", they were, IMO, the finest steam locomotives

the UP had.

Ed M

UP has been silent  The loose lips all seem to belong to the people in California and specifically the original author of the email that was sent out.

That makes sense to me but there is supposedly a third party also pushing for the Big Boy restoration idea.

Sounds like a classic case of putting cart before to horse.

If U.P. agrees to restore the Bigboy I wonder if that failed movie project might resurface again.

This entire affair smacks of the "floating a trial balloon" strategy.  Just speculation on my part but most of this sounds like someone is trying to push someone else into a corner using the court of publicity/public opinion as a bludgeon.  Look for winners, losers, and who comes out looking bad if this "trial balloon" eventually sinks and you may have an idea who the various "someones" are.

Or, as Rich said, this could be a real case of amateur hour in terms of getting a project off the ground.

In either case, professionalism seems to be missing.  Makes me wonder how well the project would be managed if it were to move forward.  Stockholders, creditors and members ought to be asking some tough questions before it is too late.

Poppyl

Not really. The new manager of the steam program WENT to the R&LHS and made a "proposal" in an "open forum" meeting of the membership. Thus, the "UP's proposal" was presented to EVERYONE n the room!

I have known the gentleman for more than 35 years, who was at the meeting that the UP manager attended, and sent out the original eMail, and believe everything he stated. Bottom line; the new manager of the UP Steam Shop should have NEVER made his "proposal" to an open floor member's meeting!

Big Boy again???  Yeah, mebby the one at 38th and Peach, in Erie, Pa!  I have to admit...this is the best one yet.  Way beyond the Greenbrier affair, and waaay beyond just about anything I've ever heard !  Can you imagine all the lawyers, politicians, and insurance companies that would be lined up to harpoon this thing if it ever really had a chance of getting traction???  Good news... I haven't stopped laughing for better than thirty hours now !!   Just the cost, which will be truly outrageous, is the tip of the iceberg here.  Bottom line...Amtrak will turn a profit before any of this comes to light.

We'll remember you stated THAT!

All this talk about cost.  Look how much was wasted on the last election.  Maybe the same people will donate to this cause.  Besides it's not you money they are spending.  Let those that believe have their dream.

Jim Miller

Havre de Grace MD

38 and peach erie PA??LOL..My home town was fairview PA..did you ever get to see N&W run there excursions threw Erie  with J611 and 1218 in the early 90's?..I dont miss peach st what a hecktic up by the millcreek mall..might be the best thing if they ran the bigboy threw peach st ..lol

It's not like taking a model locomotive out of the box after 50 years.

Dreams don't pay the bills.  Cost is a factor.  No matter how much the estimated cost is for a restoration to operation, it will cost more.

You don't know how good or bad things are on a steam locomotive until you take it apart.  Everything comes off and has to be inspected, renewed if need be or replaced.

Notice buried in all this hype, assuming it does happen, the "target date" is 2019.  Could be done sooner, or later.  A lot can happen between now and then.  A management change could scuttle the whole steam operation.

Rusty

Yes indeed, Mr. Wales!  I saw the whole N&W steam show at one time or another from 19th st. in Erie.  And what a show it was, proving once again that Nobody ever boiled water like N&W....NOBODY !   FWIW, didja see the 611 pulling her excursion train east on Conrail at Dock Jct.  No pilot engine...just pure N&W excellence!

Well Rusty, you don't have to help with the rebuild do you. 

yep thats where they picked people up for there excursions..Got tons of pics of both of them,even got to ride in the cab of the J611 it was hot but fun! got to toote the whisel too acouple of times..wished they still do those runs.. but after bob clyderson first pres of northfilk and souther passed away so did the steam program..Rusty,, boilers have to be rebuilt every 7 years if I remember wright..theres alot of work that has to be done on her.. replacing all bearings,building and putting in new boiler header tubes..I know whats involved in the boiler prosses ,Id used to work for Reily stoker Erie PA,,they build boilers and burnners since the late 1800's.. to bad they closed shop in 2000..

for what it's worth.....(I'm going to take this as a serious post)

www.21stcenturysteam.com  <-- Norfolk Southern Steam Program (with public trips).  Yep, it's back and using everyone's favorite Berkshire.

As far as boilers go, steam engines are under FRA unless insular.  Mandatory teardown and ultrasound work to be completed every 15 years OR 1472 days under pressure, whichever comes first.

Kevin

I think we are missing the biger news of this thread, "765 is going to be on NS in 2013, including several trips around Horseshoe Curve." Or did that get mentioned before?

I would rather see the mighty 1218 and J 611 back in service! Just a waste to let them sit.. I know the 1218 was going threw her rebuild in 1992 until Bob claytor the press of norfolk and southern passed away.and cenceled the resto in late 94 The 1218 most of the work is done accept the boiler and fire box isnt finished. the first restoration after getting her out of steam town in 85. Got her finished in in jan 16,1987 and Bob did the driving breakin in march 26,1887..I got the video of that drive and Bob wasnt holding her back at all..was high balling her bigtime..

Well, it looks like everything that could be said about this subject has been said here... from the hopeful dreamers to the avid naysayers.  So now let's all just wait and see what happens.

Josey, what you have posted here is pure foamer fantasy. The 1218's boiler and firebox now have to comply with CFR 230, which came into effect after the engine was removed from service. That means that NONE of the boiler work is "done." It could easily take $1 million or more to bring the 1218 back to service. 

One more thing...in the United States we don't "drive" steam locomotives. We "run" them.

Um... no, really I can't.  Do the insurance agents, lawyers and politicians stop the UPRR from running the current largest operable steam locomotive in the world?  Didn't think so. Would the problem be the lease vs. ownership?  Steve S. didn't seem to have a problem insuring a big MILW Northern before he had the pink slip.  There are a hundred ways this could go wrong, but lawyers, politicians and insurance agents aren't going to stop the UPRR from repairing and operating a privately owned locomotive on the private property that is the Union Pacific.

a million or 2? thats a drop in the bucket with these companys...with all the money they make..is this what your talking about..http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol4/pdf/CFR-2004-title49-vol4-part230.pdf.....by the way guys..how do i post links on this site..so you can just click on to it?

A couple 30 second Tv adds cost that much and only run a couple weeks.This thing could run for ever. Hope all goes well and it someday breaths fire once again.

i still say that shouldnt matter..UP is a very big company..proubley bigger then PPR..

UP has the $$$$....don't worry about that.

I don't know if this is the "official way", but I just separate the link from the rest of the text (by hitting "Enter"), and the link becomes highlighted, and you can then click on it.

I didn't say the UP doesn't have the resources. 

It also doesn't mean the UP steam department would get a blank check.   Everything depends on what's found once the locomotive is disassembled and inspected.

And any change at Corporate could quickly change the situation.

But, it's all a moot point until the locomotive shows up on the property.

Rusty

Superwarp; thank you for the info.  Hope it gets accomplished.

In the mean time I'll order my Big Boy with extra fries and a chocolate shake, por favor!  OTOH, Ed Bageley said the Big Boys were good for years...they're good forever!  And while yunz are at it, I'll take some butter for my popcorn....remembering this; that those politicians, lawyers, and insurance companies are all socialists - who will be going after the symbolism of the Big Boy and those greedy capitalists at UP as much as anything else.

So trying to get something useful from this thread before it deteriorates anymore

Did any of the Big Boys go out of service due to crashes or wearing out before steam ended?Or did they all last until the end of normal steam operations on the UP and end up being scrapped (except for those saved for display)