Steamer posted:

Horrors! aMarx1829 tender

When I had a layout up I always had some Marx 3/16ths cars being pulled by a Flyer prewar UP 4-8-4 - I converted a couple of those Pennsy and State of Maine 4 wheel cars by pulling the original wheel/axle sets, inverting the frame and attaching 3/16ths trucks - they broke up the GAEX/Pennsy brown/UP/NYC Pacemaker 3/16ths boxcars nicely...

More Marx Mayhem...

Been reworking another Marx 7" boxcar. Masked off the roof and painted it satin black. Doors were painted brown. Drew the new sides on the computer and printed them out. They were glued on with rubber cement.  The frame was converted to 8 wheels.IMG_20200328_114029IMG_20200331_174406IMG_20200331_174218

Attachments

Images (3)

So I mentioned in the post that's a half dozen or so above this one that I was waiting on an parcel. It arrived today. I can now say that for the time being, I'm finished collecting trains. I told myself that I would stop when I got this locomotive set. (And this is also the reason I purchased the Marx 21's). I've been after these guys for the better part of a decade, watching auction listings come and go, both on eBay and other places, always just out of my reach. I know they're a little beat up but all the pieces are present. I just want to stare at them for a while. 

I probably paid too much, (and definitely paid too much for shipping ) but they're here now. IMG_20200401_171606IMG_20200401_171620IMG_20200401_171637

Attachments

Images (3)

Those look great to me.   I tend to have a lot of varied interest in many types of trains, but those are on a list somewhere lol.

 

Steam wolf:  Those RI ‘s are BEAUTIFUL what a find!  Congratulations some things are worth waiting for

Don McErlean

SteamWolf posted:

So I mentioned in the post that's a half dozen or so above this one that I was waiting on an parcel. It arrived today. I can now say that for the time being, I'm finished collecting trains. I told myself that I would stop when I got this locomotive set. (And this is also the reason I purchased the Marx 21's). I've been after these guys for the better part of a decade, watching auction listings come and go, both on eBay and other places, always just out of my reach. I know they're a little beat up but all the pieces are present. I just want to stare at them for a while. 

I probably paid too much, (and definitely paid too much for shipping ) but they're here now. IMG_20200401_171606IMG_20200401_171620IMG_20200401_171637

Some of the nicest litho done on a toy train. Love mine.

Steve

Last edited by Steve "Papa" Eastman

Guys - thanks. They were certainly a 'pounce on it' find. Did they ever have a set with those two? Or was it just the locomotives only? 

I impulse bought a set of those at a local train shop a few years back. Still in the box and with the instructions. Very nice set. You'll be happy with them. Shame they didn't produce more items like them.

Steamwolf those look great! I really like those maroon swinging pilot assemblies.   

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT.....I didn't realize the units you were showing were from Unique Art, I just assumed they were Marx because I ddin't know any better.  My comments below were based on that assumption.  END OF EDIT.

I bought a Santa Fe version a year or so ago with intent to repower it.  It's one of many projects I may never get around to.  

20200402_06355120200402_063606

I am super impressed by the lithography on these F units.   I wonder though is the swinging pilot just how the Rock Island units came,  or is that an extremely well done modification?

Congrats on a beautiful acquisition. 

Attachments

Images (2)
Last edited by jhz563

Marx and Unique Art cooperation with the tooling on these units? The stampings look very similar although the trucks are totally different.

Jim O'C posted:

Marx and Unique Art cooperation with the tooling on these units? The stampings look very similar although the trucks are totally different.

I'm interested too. How does the Unique Art pull compared to the Marx 21? There are a few of these available, but the prices for the current listings are totally out of line with recent sales.

George

I'm not sure how the UA compares to the Marx units. The Marx 21 power unit with the weight over top the motor is certainly heavier than the UA ones, but the UA has traction tires.

Also, I was cleaning the shells and motor out of the UA, underneath the Rock Island 'keystone' on the front of the locomotive is the split to insert the plastic nose piece. I'm not sure if UA collaborated with Marx on this or did their own thing, it's certainly a bigger shell but I don't suspect the pulling power will be any better than the Marx.

Edit -> I'll do a side by side picture comparo between the two power units when I get home from work. 

Last edited by SteamWolf

I think when UA unleashed those Rock Island units they were in head to head competition with Marx. Any collaboration between the two would have been treason. Eventually Marx won the war and bought out UA and removed them from the American market. Not sure what happened to these big diesels, but Marx shipped the tooling for the other UA stuff to Mexico.

To me, the UA and the Marx 21 have some significant differences even in the shells.  This seems especially so in the very forward nose section where the UA loco's have a distinct "housing" for the headlight, you can see the "bump" where the bulb is inserted and the number boards are printed to appear that they protrude from the side.  Whereas the Marx 21 hood is just flat with a hole below the front edge for the bulb and the numbers are lithographed as if they were flat.  At least that is the way they look in the pictures, I have rarely even seen the UA loco's IRL so I am just speculating through the pictures.

I don't think that UA ever made a specific set to go with these.  On the few (rare) occasions that I have seen them they have always been separate items and the only box I have seen them in was just a two item cardboard box designed to only hold the loco's.

In the book "Marx Trains, Vol II" by Matzke and published by Greenberg, the Chapter on Seven Inch Cars by Larry Jensen talks about the relationship between Marx and Sammy Bergman who owned UA.  In his view, the emergence of the UA gauge O trains in1949 was a complete surprise to Marx and very unexpected given their friendship.  This was especially so in the RI diesels as they competed directly with the then newly introduced Marx 21 (candidly I think the UA locos are much nicer).  This emerging rivalry appeared to spur the initiation of work on creating the seven inch cars in January 1949 as direct competitive response to the UA trains.  In the end, Marx won and bought out UA and it was rumored sent the tooling for the trains to Mexico. 

They are beautiful.

Don McErlean

Handy Andy :  Read your post with great interest.  You said you "drew" the new sides on your computer.  I was wondering how you did that?  They look very finished even to the RR logo, I know I could never do that "free hand" so I was wondering is there some software you use or some program of artwork.  If indeed you did this free hand you have my admiration for sure!

Don McErlean

OK I guess this is my day for posting to this thread...thanks to everyone who got this back from "Miscellaneous" it is now where it belongs.  Today was my first chance to experiment with some items I got off the bay.  The first of these is a 1939 (as best I can date it) passenger set that is identified in the Greenberg AF Prewar O- Gauge book as being set 301 from 1939.  It is an unusual reference and it seems to imply that it was the only set that used this group of cars and loco.   The engine & tender were listed as type 403 although the engine carries the number 401 below the cab window and the tender is separately shown as type 402.  It is a 2-4-2 sheet metal boiler with brass trim. The tender and everything else has type X couplers (a rather odd knuckle type that does not open).  The cars are (using the nomenclature in the book) Type (E) Enameled Cars that were  uncatalogued but were listed by AF as number 235 for the Pullman, 234 for the Baggage and 236 for the observation.  The distinction appears to lie in the decals applied to the sides. So anyway here are some pictures (by the way it does run and rather well).

Flyer set 301 LocomotiveFlyer 301 Consist editedFlyer set 301 full train

Attachments

Images (3)
Don McErlean posted:

OK I guess this is my day for posting to this thread...thanks to everyone who got this back from "Miscellaneous" it is now where it belongs.  Today was my first chance to experiment with some items I got off the bay.  The first of these is a 1939 (as best I can date it) passenger set that is identified in the Greenberg AF Prewar O- Gauge book as being set 301 from 1939.  It is an unusual reference and it seems to imply that it was the only set that used this group of cars and loco.   The engine & tender were listed as type 403 although the engine carries the number 401 below the cab window and the tender is separately shown as type 402.  It is a 2-4-2 sheet metal boiler with brass trim. The tender and everything else has type X couplers (a rather odd knuckle type that does not open).  The cars are (using the nomenclature in the book) Type (E) Enameled Cars that were  uncatalogued but were listed by AF as number 235 for the Pullman, 234 for the Baggage and 236 for the observation.  The distinction appears to lie in the decals applied to the sides. So anyway here are some pictures (by the way it does run and rather well).

Flyer set 301 LocomotiveFlyer 301 Consist editedFlyer set 301 full train

Don,

Don't jinx this thread, I don't believe it was ever moved. However, the weekend thread was moved.

I have the same set, but with a different engine/tender.  Mine came with a gunmetal gray 401 with nickel trim and a gray streamline type tender.

The tender, which is original, has unusual decals, as this tender should typically have the large PRR Billboard decal.  I can only guess that they ran out of the billboard decals the day this tender was labeled.

I believe the gray 401 with nickel trim is a late engine, as in 1940 Gilbert began using nickel trim on the black 401 engines.

NWL

I have a similar set as well.  Same black engine, but it has A.F. on the boiler and no number under the window.  Notice too that the engine has a sheet metal coupler on the front.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Last edited by Greg J. Turinetti
Don McErlean posted:

OK I guess this is my day for posting to this thread...thanks to everyone who got this back from "Miscellaneous" it is now where it belongs.  Today was my first chance to experiment with some items I got off the bay.  The first of these is a 1939 (as best I can date it) passenger set that is identified in the Greenberg AF Prewar O- Gauge book as being set 301 from 1939.  It is an unusual reference and it seems to imply that it was the only set that used this group of cars and loco.   The engine & tender were listed as type 403 although the engine carries the number 401 below the cab window and the tender is separately shown as type 402.  It is a 2-4-2 sheet metal boiler with brass trim. The tender and everything else has type X couplers (a rather odd knuckle type that does not open).  The cars are (using the nomenclature in the book) Type (E) Enameled Cars that were  uncatalogued but were listed by AF as number 235 for the Pullman, 234 for the Baggage and 236 for the observation.  The distinction appears to lie in the decals applied to the sides. So anyway here are some pictures (by the way it does run and rather well).

Flyer set 301 Locomotive

Don,

Nice set.  I think this is your set in the catalog and it does list the numbers of the cars.  Your engine is actually a 2-4-4 just as it appears in the catalog.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Last edited by Greg J. Turinetti

NWL: Your set really interesting. It seems more than coincidental that these two sets seem to be unique because of how AF used their decals. The unique thing about my pass cars ( uncataloged according to G’berg) was the placement of the singular American Flyer decal centered under the windows. Maybe they were having sort of either process or supply issue with their decals. Who knows?  

All the data I could find on my set points to 1939 from the perspective of the 403 combination loco and tender in black and the single American Flyer decal below the windows on the cars  

Don McErlean 

Greg thank you for the catalog and you are correct the loco is a 2-4-4 not a 2-4-2 which was a mistake. Indeed your catalog does show the set number as 301.  Thanks for posting. 

Don McErlean

Don McErlean posted:

NWL: Your set really interesting. It seems more than coincidental that these two sets seem to be unique because of how AF used their decals. The unique thing about my pass cars ( uncataloged according to G’berg) was the placement of the singular American Flyer decal centered under the windows. Maybe they were having sort of either process or supply issue with their decals. Who knows?  

All the data I could find on my set points to 1939 from the perspective of the 403 combination loco and tender in black and the single American Flyer decal below the windows on the cars  

Don McErlean 

Don,

Actually the single decal under the window is how the late Gilbert cars were decorated.  The curley-cue knuckle type couplers on these cars also points to 1939.

NWL

For those of you that were curious, this is how the Marx 21 and UA 2000 stack up together. They are very different in quite a few ways. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves, sorry some of them are dark:

IMG_20200402_184049IMG_20200402_184109IMG_20200402_184136IMG_20200402_184145IMG_20200402_184354

 

It's also interesting to note that the Marx power unit was supposed to be placed at the very head of the train and facing forward, ahead of the dummy. The UA power unit was supposed to be placed behind the dummy, back to back with the lead unit so the motor is in the middle. My lead UA doesn't have a coupler on the pilot, so this is only a thought. 

Attachments

Images (5)
Last edited by SteamWolf

posted this on fri photo,,,but ,I found this on the ives section on $bay,thought it was just unfinished and I have an extra motor,,,,got it and the frame is brass,my original thought was to paint it black,but I like it,,,its like a pilot model,,,,one headlight is wired,,to nothing,no markings anywhere altho I didn't take the cab off,,,,any thoughts guys?IMGP3527IMGP3523IMGP3524IMGP3525IMGP3526

Attachments

Images (5)
terry hudon posted:

posted this on fri photo,,,but ,I found this on the ives section on $bay,thought it was just unfinished and I have an extra motor,,,,got it and the frame is brass,my original thought was to paint it black,but I like it,,,its like a pilot model,,,,one headlight is wired,,to nothing,no markings anywhere altho I didn't take the cab off,,,,any thoughts guys?IMGP3527IMGP3523IMGP3524IMGP3525IMGP3526

Beautiful piece! I might be tempted to paint the cab but leave everything else au naturel.

Terry Hudon:  What you have is a version of the Ives (as made by Lionel) 1694 loco, a New Haven electric.  It was introduced as part of the " Ives Line" which was actually  produced by Lionel in 1932. It was an expensive engine introduced as the Great Depression deepened, hence it was  not a sales success.  Ives had gone  bankrupt in 1928 with all assets jointly purchased by Lionel and American flyer.  In 1930 Lionel bought out American Flyer and became the sole owner. Lionel continued an "Ives Line" but it became a mixture of both Lionel and Ives designed items but most if not all were now produced at the Lionel plant in Irvington.  The 1694 introduced in 1932 didn't last and to conserve company resources it was discontinued in 1933.  The original had a painted frame and cabin unlike yours which appears to be bare metal.  IAW the Greenberg book on Ives, most of the passenger sets headed by the 1694 were discounted and redistributed through  Canadian and British markets.

One word of caution, in response to collector demand, Williams Reproductions produced an superior replica of this engine in 1972.  It is possible that you also have an early version or even a prototype of the Williams loco. It is really handsome in either case.

Don McErlean

 

SteamWolf posted:

For those of you that were curious, this is how the Marx 21 and UA 2000 stack up together. They are very different in quite a few ways. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves, sorry some of them are dark:

IMG_20200402_184049IMG_20200402_184109IMG_20200402_184136IMG_20200402_184145IMG_20200402_184354

 

It's also interesting to note that the Marx power unit was supposed to be placed at the very head of the train and facing forward, ahead of the dummy. The UA power unit was supposed to be placed behind the dummy, back to back with the lead unit so the motor is in the middle. My lead UA doesn't have a coupler on the pilot, so this is only a thought. 

Wow, never knew the Unique Art train was so large !

I always thought the Marx diesel was large ,especially for a Marx ,but I'm just really impressed with the Unique Art. 

mackb4 posted:
SteamWolf posted:

For those of you that were curious, this is how the Marx 21 and UA 2000 stack up together. They are very different in quite a few ways. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves, sorry some of them are dark:

IMG_20200402_184049IMG_20200402_184109IMG_20200402_184136IMG_20200402_184145IMG_20200402_184354

 

It's also interesting to note that the Marx power unit was supposed to be placed at the very head of the train and facing forward, ahead of the dummy. The UA power unit was supposed to be placed behind the dummy, back to back with the lead unit so the motor is in the middle. My lead UA doesn't have a coupler on the pilot, so this is only a thought. 

Wow, never knew the Unique Art train was so large !

I always thought the Marx diesel was large ,especially for a Marx ,but I'm just really impressed with the Unique Art. 

I was pretty surprised at this as well. It's certainly more scale sized I think, although just as heavy as the Marx. 

Don McErlean posted:

Handy Andy :  Read your post with great interest.  You said you "drew" the new sides on your computer.  I was wondering how you did that?  They look very finished even to the RR logo, I know I could never do that "free hand" so I was wondering is there some software you use or some program of artwork.  If indeed you did this free hand you have my admiration for sure!

Don McErlean

Don,

I drew the basic car side with the ladder and such in MS Paint. Then copied it into MS PowerPoint. In PowerPoint I did the lettering and made the logo. Yes it's freehand, but I have had lots of practice since most of the buildings on my layout were also drawn on the computer.

My first Tinplate set,Lionel Classic #44 freight set,, found on Ebsy 1/2 original retail. Brand new, ready to get oiled.  O gage version. I have a Standard  Gauge set on order.20200408_070007

Attachments

Images (1)
Jushavnfun posted:

My first Tinplate set,Lionel Classic #44 freight set,, found on Ebsy 1/2 original retail. Brand new, ready to get oiled.  O gage version. I have a Standard  Gauge set on order.20200408_070007

Very nice.  Isn't that the Lionel pre-war classics repro set?  I am making that guess based on the blue hopper.

It’s not tinplate but it is old. Loki is helping me test the Lionel Z TrainMaster I just bought online. 

Attachments

Videos (1)
Watch out, Loki!

4 screws and knobs off, Pop the cover and look at rollers/windings. Rollers must roll, never skid, windings show no sawing or heavy wear. 

Rollers can sometimes crack and it was just shipped

And I trust MY eyes more than the guarantee. The guarantee is just the fallback plan.

An experienced hand might feel all 4 for "bump" ease/consistency.and try to notice any significant changes over time and/or in time to "save it" again.

I love my old Z   The insides are pretty cool with the arm/gears/shafts to reach under the winding bottom, etc.

There is a rare KW with a similar gear set up. (maybe a pre-production prototype vs "rare", but I had one as a kid)

Well guys on the Weekend Tinplate pictures post I described a new French Hornby locomotive that I had gotten and Fatman and French Trains helped me pin it down to postwar type AVO.  However it came with 6 Hornby type 1 coaches and that was too long a train plus 3 were LNER and 3 were LMS so I clearly couldn't run them together (that would be like a PRR sleeper on the 20th Century - pre PC).  So my RR needed some new power.  The solution came today with an auction win of 3 Hornby electric locomotives (all in good to fair condition).  The good part is that all 3 have the 20 volt motor and my ZW can handle that.  All 3 worked beautifully including the reversing mechanism which on these is a remote transformer controlled 2-positon reverse that is activated by taking the voltage to zero thus you get (forward-stop-reverse-stop-forward).  The 3 loco's have all been touched up and in one case repainted (poorly) and all lack any specific RR identifications or numbers.  The one I am posting today appears to be in close to its original matt finish livery and may not have been refinished but it has no RR decals or designations on it.  Because its green, I would guess (note guess) that its SR.  Here is what my research says...

In accordance with my Hornby reference book it appears to be a Type 101T Hornby tank engine (the 101 tank is what the M3 tank became postwar)...this one is postwar and was likely made between 1950 -1954 although the 101 was made from 1949 and the M3 was actually introduced (in simpler form) in 1931although cylinders and drive rods were not added until 1936. I can date mine to at about 1950 due to some details in the openings in the back-head to accommodate clockwork controls (slots vs rectangular holes) , modifications to the back-head to provide clearance to mount both electric and cw motors, and in how the couplers are attached to the frame...all this pushes the date of mfr of my loco to at least 1950 and this loco was not offered post 1954.  While the other 2 locos are about the same, their finish is much less professional.  One is in the black goods livery scheme and is a fairly good but likely post factory spray job while the other is dark green and badly brush painted.  Yet all operate well.

Here is the loco, I will need to find some SR transfers to put on it or at least some proper number transfers

Hornby Green 101 Loco

Here he is pulling a consist of No 1 Hornby LMS coaches.  The engine ran beautifully, reverse worked well, and it had no trouble with the Hornby coaches on my very level layout.

Hornby Green 101 Loco and Coaches

 

Well that's my day today, luckily this is still Easter Holiday for my job so I got to stay home and play today.  Work tomorrow. 

Best Regards

Don McErlean

Attachments

Images (2)
Don McErlean posted:

Well guys on the Weekend Tinplate pictures post I described a new French Hornby locomotive that I had gotten and Fatman and French Trains helped me pin it down to postwar type AVO.  However it came with 6 Hornby type 1 coaches and that was too long a train plus 3 were LNER and 3 were LMS so I clearly couldn't run them together (that would be like a PRR sleeper on the 20th Century - pre PC).  So my RR needed some new power.  The solution came today with an auction win of 3 Hornby electric locomotives (all in good to fair condition).  The good part is that all 3 have the 20 volt motor and my ZW can handle that.  All 3 worked beautifully including the reversing mechanism which on these is a remote transformer controlled 2-positon reverse that is activated by taking the voltage to zero thus you get (forward-stop-reverse-stop-forward).  The 3 loco's have all been touched up and in one case repainted (poorly) and all lack any specific RR identifications or numbers.  The one I am posting today appears to be in close to its original matt finish livery and may not have been refinished but it has no RR decals or designations on it.  Because its green, I would guess (note guess) that its SR.  Here is what my research says...

In accordance with my Hornby reference book it appears to be a Type 101T Hornby tank engine (the 101 tank is what the M3 tank became postwar)...this one is postwar and was likely made between 1950 -1954 although the 101 was made from 1949 and the M3 was actually introduced (in simpler form) in 1931although cylinders and drive rods were not added until 1936. I can date mine to at about 1950 due to some details in the openings in the back-head to accommodate clockwork controls (slots vs rectangular holes) , modifications to the back-head to provide clearance to mount both electric and cw motors, and in how the couplers are attached to the frame...all this pushes the date of mfr of my loco to at least 1950 and this loco was not offered post 1954.  While the other 2 locos are about the same, their finish is much less professional.  One is in the black goods livery scheme and is a fairly good but likely post factory spray job while the other is dark green and badly brush painted.  Yet all operate well.

Here is the loco, I will need to find some SR transfers to put on it or at least some proper number transfers

Hornby Green 101 Loco

Here he is pulling a consist of No 1 Hornby LMS coaches.  The engine ran beautifully, reverse worked well, and it had no trouble with the Hornby coaches on my very level layout.

Hornby Green 101 Loco and Coaches

 

Well that's my day today, luckily this is still Easter Holiday for my job so I got to stay home and play today.  Work tomorrow. 

Best Regards

Don McErlean

I use to get my transfers from Wessex Transfers, but they are no longer in business.  Let us know where you get your transfers/decals

Tom,

@Don McErlean  If these are the three locomotives that sold on the "bay" on the 6th of April ( from Connecticut ) then these are Hornby clockwork bodies fitted with, I think,  Marx power units

Hornby always had "Spade" pickups such as below ( I am pretty sure you already know this tho lol )

A trio of fun units nevertheless I thought of having a go at them , but postage was waaaaay too much for this Aussie

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×