Have been looking for the 1st year 1938 version 2660 crane car and found an un restored original, also bought 831 and the maroon top 655 also un restored from 1933-34 .
Not shown is the 655 tuscan version 1939-1940 rubber stamped in same condition as above .
click to enlarge
@StevefromPA- Great photos and I really love the Dinner. Neat idea to protray the Skyline tower and a "refurbished" apt house, gives more uses for a great bldg.
I looked up the platelayer's hut in my Hornby reference. It is certainly pre-war. It was first offered in 1930 but was never returned to the line post 1941. There were 3 versions, centered mostly around how the door was treated. 1930-33 the door was hinged and opened. In 1934 the door was just enameled onto the front sheet by masking off and painting the space that was left blank for the opening door. Finally from 1936 on the lithographed door regained the paneling detail of the opening door. Therefore, I believe your hut was made between 1934 and 1936 due to the fact that its door is non-opening and just plain green.
Great accessory by the way. It was not all that common in its day because it was quite expensive for being the smallest building in the Hornby line.
Also, some dating information can be obtained from the box. The box "Printer's Code" is typically stamped on the end or on the flaps. It takes the form of ..."MW-1234 5M 140" This would indicate a batch of 5000 (5M) boxes printed in January 1940 (140). The meaning of MW is lost to history but likely meant a given printer used by Meccano under contract. (Note information taken from "The Hornby Companion Series, The Hornby Gauge 0 System" by Chris and Julie Graebe.)
Thanks for posting Steve. Best Wishes
Don
I left early for York today, because I went to a Stout Auction. They are 3 hours from home and I figured, why drive back home when I was leaving for York on Saturday. Anyway, I went to the auction to buy a group of trains that contained an unusual American Flyer 3190 from 1931.
First, here is a photo of the common 3190
The above engine features a cast iron boiler, 2-4-0 wheel configuration, die cast side rods, and a manual reverse unit, with lever in the cab.
The unusual engine that I was after is similar to the engine pictured below
Note that this engine uses the die cast 3300 boiler from 1931, which was American Flyer's first large die cast engine. Although one might say that the above engine is a 3300, it is not. The 3300, pictured below, differs in many ways
The 3300 features a 2-4-2 configuration, with the above 3190 not including any means to connect the trailing truck (ie there are no holes in the motor frame to allow the truck to be attached).
The 3300 features automatic reverse and a red cast iron cab weight, which has a red light mounted in the firebox area. Due to the 3190 featuring a rear mounted manual reverse, there is no room for the cast iron cab weight and therefore, no light in the firebox.
Note that the 3300 has 2 pieces of copper boiler piping per side, where the 3190 only features the forward copper boiler piping. Additionally, the brass sand dome on the 3300 is made to accept the rear piece of copper piping, but the brass sand dome on the 3190 does not include holes for the rear copper piping.
Lastly, the unusual 3190 actually has a boiler stamping stating it is a 3190. The photo below shows the remains of the 3190 rubber stamping.
The one thing that has always puzzled me is what type of side rods came on this engine. The 3300 engines came with these side rods
The above side rods are die cast and are typically missing from engines when you find them today. The one thing that I noted with the 3300, is that there is a funky piece for attaching the side rods to the rear drive wheel. The funky piece presses into the drive wheel over the rod that connects the two wheels and then the main rod screws into the funky piece. I know that there is a bored out hole in the rear drive wheel to accept the funky piece being pressed in.
The drive wheels on my unusual 3190 are presently in poor condition, but I could tell that they were not bored out and whatever drive rods were on the engine, were screwed into the rear wheel.
One of my unusual 3190s came with homemade side rods, as shown below
The above side rods appear to closely match the die cast side rods of the 3300, but still left me wondering, until today. Here is the unusual 3190, I picked up at the Stout Auction, with the main side rod still in place.
As you can see, the side rods are the same ones used on the 3300, but they are missing the funky piece that connects the side rods to the rear drive wheel and the side rods are screwed directly into the rear wheel. They are also missing a few pieces, primarily the piece that goes between the two drive wheels. However, I have those.
Eventually these side rods will be removed from this engine, cleaned up, and added to the nicer unusual 3190 that is in my collection.
NWL
My only other purchase at the Stout Auction yesterday.
I offer a 100% original Hamiltonian diner car (has wide / big windows found on diner cars in other sets). Well used and missing parts, but as I said 100% original.
I actually bought this on behalf of a friend, who spotted it, so it is mine until maybe Monday morning when he picks it up at York and pays me for it.
As for the red painted Hamiltonian diner car, these were not part of the Hamiltonian set that one bought at the retailer. My friend, who I purchased for, indicated that these diner cars were some sort of special order car that one had to send in a "coupon" in order to get. Note that there are no number plates on this car, but rather 4 American Flyer plates (2 on each side) and 2 Hamiltonian plates (1 per side).
NWL
@Nation Wide Lines posted:My only other purchase at the Stout Auction yesterday.
I offer a 100% original Hamiltonian diner car (has wide / big windows found on diner cars in other sets). Well used and missing parts, but as I said 100% original.
I actually bought this on behalf of a friend, who spotted it, so it is mine until maybe Monday morning when he picks it up at York and pays me for it.
As for the red painted Hamiltonian diner car, these were not part of the Hamiltonian set that one bought at the retailer. My friend, who I purchased for, indicated that these diner cars were some sort of special order car that one had to send in a "coupon" in order to get. Note that there are no number plates on this car, but rather 4 American Flyer plates (2 on each side) and 2 Hamiltonian plates (1 per side).
NWL
An update to this. The above car is marked "Sold as Shopworn" It is reported that another known red diner car is also marked "Sold as Shopworn" so apparently these cars were sold out of the Factory Store.
The person who I bought this for did a careful examination of the car and noted several unusual parts that were original to the car, but not normally featured on a car like this. My friend was very happy with the car and plans on cleaning and replacing the missing parts.
Another group of 3
Back in May or so I posted a picture of three Modern Marx C&NW cattle cars - the prototype, the version with embossed sides, and the version with punched sides. So now I have another set - this time it is for the Burlington - the prototype, the production version with smooth printed sides, and the production version with punched sides.
@Robert S. Butler posted:Another group of 3
Back in May or so I posted a picture of three Modern Marx C&NW cattle cars - the prototype, the version with embossed sides, and the version with punched sides. So now I have another set - this time it is for the Burlington - the prototype, the production version with smooth printed sides, and the production version with punched sides.
Robert another great post. I still can’t believe the detail of the printed shading and shadows of the side punch openings.
While most all of my York purchases were modern and "steel" focused, I did make one tinplate "Iron" purchase.
Recently I was able to buy a "train set" from the original owner. It was all American Flyer equipment and most of it was from the 1930s. Much of it was still in its original boxes. One of the items was the #91 Fast freight station from 1930-1931
This is a fairly common tinplate station. I have several and this one came with a not commonly found box.
There are still treasures to be found.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Just arrived home (Australia) from our trip to Europe and, in particular, Switzerland. This is the home of my Buco O Gauge tinplate trains from the 1950's. The Swiss tradition, and company, is still alive and going strong.
Picked up these two new "Buffet" wagons from the small Buco Spur O GmbH factory in Bauma (a small town N/E of Zurich) while I was there. Bought #10 and #11 of the limited production run. Each one cost me around $240.00 Australian (about $160.00 US), so they certainly aren't cheap when compared to Lionel and MTH offerings.
However, they are full tinplate......,and I just love them!!!
Peter.......Buco Australia
Tinplate Point of Origin
Not too long ago I managed to get a nice example of the tinplate Marx Pacemaker Boxcar to add to my series. This one filled in the #174592 spot. What made the car even more interesting was the discovery of its point of origin on the underside. As you can see it was not part of a Marx set - it started life out on a shelf in Woolworth's - with an ID of 11-4 and a take home price of 49 cents.
Perhaps from shelves like these (the F. W. Woolworth's display at the former National Christmas Museum):
I was lucky; we had both a Woolworth's and a G. C. Murphy's in town when I was a kid.
PD
This was a Turkey Day purchase on the bay. One should never list anything on the bay on a major holiday, but I am glad they did. Although the windup mechanism does not work, it was priced right! This is a c. 1914 American Flyer set. Note the Chicago car is on the 1107-style frame.
NWL
NWL - what a great addition to a Holiday celebration! Great find.
Best Wishes
Don
Very nice NWL! That is the first one of the mixed version of body/frame I've seen in red. All of the others I have seen were green.
Another tinplate cookie building, but with a twist. Arriving from Jolly Ole England, a tinplate Halloween cookie house!
And this one comes equipped with cut outs and a tea-light included. The bottom opens instead of the top with the tea light screwed on.
jhz- that house will go great with your "Halloween" layout!
Don
@Robert S. Butler posted:Very nice NWL! That is the first one of the mixed version of body/frame I've seen in red. All of the others I have seen were green.
I have seen both the red and the green versions previously.
Here is another installment from the "train set" . The 2020 Water Tank (cataloged from 1922 - 1933).
I really like this box style. Even with the water marks it still looks great.
Even though it is missing its string and weight I think it is a keeper.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Hey Greg, that 2033/4033 block signal pictured on the box looks remarkably similar to the Lionel 78/078. I presume they were made/sold by one and also purchased/marketed by the other. Not the first time you see this cross-pollination, especially during the Ives transition period. Water tower looks pristine; unusual given the box staining.
PD
@pd posted:Hey Greg, that 2033/4033 block signal pictured on the box looks remarkably similar to the Lionel 78/078. I presume they were made/sold by one and also purchased/marketed by the other. Not the first time you see this cross-pollination, especially during the Ives transition period. Water tower looks pristine; unusual given the box staining.
PD
pd,
For a time during the mid to late 1920s American Flyer purchased a number of Lionel products and rebranded them as American Flyer items. This included Standard Gauge freight cars as well as accessories, including the 2033/4033 block signal that you noted.
NWL
There is your answer pd. NWL do you know the dates that the pictured box was used?
Here is another Lionel rebranding
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Greg,
As your box references "Over 5 1/2 Million Sales" that dates it to prior to 1928, when the "Over 6 Million Sales" logo was being used. I believe the Flyer accessories from Lionel first appeared in the 1926 catalog, so it would seem the 1926-1927 era.
Here are some other Lionel accessories that Flyer sold
Note the Flyer number on the bottom
One cannot believe the panic that sets in when one cannot find some very rare items, which they know that they have... Turns out they were in plain sight all of the time, just overlooked as I mistook them for the later reproductions. These were sitting at the back of the layout and are now in one of the display cases.
As the previous couple of posts have been about Lionel produced items for American Flyer, here is a trio from 1926 only.
All three are stamped as follows:
Flyer showed these items in a catalog supplement in 1926 only. Flyer also sold the larger Villa and Mansion buildings (I have seen one of them on an auction before, which sold for crazy money) and Flyer cataloged the Lionel number 92 signal tower building (John DeSantis had one of these, which I saw shortly after he bought it).
As for my three, I gave one to a very good friend and I am left with only two of them.
NWL
Hello guys, I posted this on the "other" Buy / Make Anything cool...and realized that the interest and expertise is likely here so I am going to post it to this site as well. This was a fun acquisition for me, relatively humble as items go, but it was inexpensive so irresistible. It was originally advertised by the seller as Marx, but review of my reference material could not turn up any signal of this sort. However a page from the 1932 American Flyer catalog showing accessories, sent to me by (I believe) Greg J. Turinetti shows this very same crossing warning as the Model 222 although with a black base. Mine has a red base and I don't know if that means it was manufactured for someone else. IAW that product sheet, the 222 was made both with and without the manual rod to initiate the action. My rod is missing so I don't know if it came that way or is just been lost over the years. Anyway here is what I am currently calling my American Flyer Model 222 Banjo ( wig-wag) Crossing warning . Note to Greg, NWL, & others with further expertise, if this is not AF and you know the origin I would welcome your comments. Thank you.
Here is a short video showing the wig-wag action.
Best wishes everyone.
Don
@Don McErlean posted:Hello guys, I posted this on the "other" Buy / Make Anything cool...and realized that the interest and expertise is likely here so I am going to post it to this site as well. This was a fun acquisition for me, relatively humble as items go, but it was inexpensive so irresistible. It was originally advertised by the seller as Marx, but review of my reference material could not turn up any signal of this sort. However a page from the 1932 American Flyer catalog showing accessories, sent to me by (I believe) Greg J. Turinetti shows this very same crossing warning as the Model 222 although with a black base. Mine has a red base and I don't know if that means it was manufactured for someone else. IAW that product sheet, the 222 was made both with and without the manual rod to initiate the action. My rod is missing so I don't know if it came that way or is just been lost over the years. Anyway here is what I am currently calling my American Flyer Model 222 Banjo ( wig-wag) Crossing warning . Note to Greg, NWL, & others with further expertise, if this is not AF and you know the origin I would welcome your comments. Thank you.
Here is a short video showing the wig-wag action.
Best wishes everyone.
Don
Don that is the American Flyer signal. They made it in various color combinations. Yours is likely a later variation, which did not have the rod to move the sign.
NWL - THANK YOU for responding. I am improving on recognizing early American Flyer but I'm still an amateur compared to you and others on this forum. It's great to pin down the manufacturer of this item, it makes it more fun to collect.
Best wishes
Don
Thanks NWL; I didn’t realize there was that much Lionel stuff marketed by Flyer as part of their product line. Was this stuff catalogued by Flyer? I’ll have to pull a few and check it out.
For all the hyper-aggressive competitive practices back then, it’s amazing they could agree to jointly market/sell stuff. Tough times have a way of forcing folks together, I suppose.
Don,
Here are some of the other variations that NWL mentioned...
With and without rod.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
@pd posted:Thanks NWL; I didn’t realize there was that much Lionel stuff marketed by Flyer as part of their product line. Was this stuff catalogued by Flyer? I’ll have to pull a few and check it out.
For all the hyper-aggressive competitive practices back then, it’s amazing they could agree to jointly market/sell stuff. Tough times have a way of forcing folks together, I suppose.
In 1926 there was a catalog supplement that showed the buildings, other accessories, and wide gauge cars. In 1927 and later, the items (accessories only) were shown in the catalogs until the early 1930s. However, the buildings and wide gauge cars were not sold after 1926, so they never appeared in the catalogs.
NWL reminded me that I have a rebranded Lionel lamp post too. Mine has a different style of stamping on the bottom. I had to go digging through the photo archive. I can't believe how blurry the photos are. My apologies,
I actually have two of these. One is sitting on my desk in the train office.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Thanks for that, Greg. I'm especially fond of orange-paint on toy trains, and those look great!
BTW, your streets look good. Are those made from bits of asphalt roofing? I recall guys back in the early days using that method.
PD
Yes PD that is exactly what they are. When we had our previous house re-roofed I used the back side of some of the leftover shingles for my streets. I had read an article about street material somewhere and I liked the way they looked. I will do the same thing when I finally get to building the new layout.
Orange you say,
Any other colors you like?
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Lol, I have lots of Flyer orange freights, Greg:
But no locos or passenger cars 
PD
@Greg J. Turinetti - Thanks for showing me the other variations of my Banjo wig-wag crossing warning and then the view of your streets with some of the same signals in place! Mine, as I said, is the last variation on the right in your first photo. Glad to confirm that its American Flyer.
Oh @pd and Greg - here are some of my "orange" early AF.
Box Car
Automobile Car
Lexington coach and Paul Revere Observation
Chicago, Milwaukee, and St. Paul passenger car and matching RPO
Best wishes everyone
Don
Since you guys are posting orange items, here are a couple of unusual ones.
c. 1918 - 1112 boxcar
1116 PRR gondola
later 1115 boxcar
3007 gondola
c. 1931 3016 - 6.5 inch gondola
c. 1931 - 3207
There is also a Wide Gauge orange gondola from 1931, but I don't have one.
NWL
Wow, those are great, NWL!
Did the 3013 four-wheel sand car (gondola) ever come in orange? I have a rusty one that's missing 50% of its paint...was thinking of an orange repaint.
PD
@pd posted:Wow, those are great, NWL!
Did the 3013 sand car (gondola) ever come in orange? I have a rusty one that's missing 50% of its paint...was thinking of an orange repaint.
PD
To my knowledge they did not make a 3013, which would be a 4 wheel car like the 3016 above. However, these orange gondolas are very rare. I would say to check the bottom of your orange 3013, as if it is original, it should have a rubberstamped number on the bottom. It is my understanding that the orange enameled gondolas are from 1931 only, and I know my 3016 is in a 1931 set and the 3207 has the 1930-31 type trucks on it.
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