Delighted by Prewar

nice I love pre war O gauge

Your post speaks to me. I have a large 3-rail O-gauge layout in the basement, and always put up a couple of O-gauge loops around the tree. This year, both loops have Lionel prewar trains. I, too, run the sets that belonged to my dad as a child. He got a Winner Lines freight in 1932 so I have the same former Ives NYC gon, Baby Ruth box, and caboose as you. There's a 1940 O-27 passenger set with 1668E Torpedo loco and former Ives 1690/1691 cars. My favorite prewar is the 291W set from 1940--the semi-scale cars in the 2900 series. Over the years I've added a box, hopper, and two tanks to the original two freight cars, so it's quite a respectable train. Those 1940s accessories find their home here, too. In fact, this reminds me, I need to go to the attic to retrieve the AF water tower that belonged to my dad.

I don't think I get the same enjoyment from them I did as a kid, but then, I didn't just do loops back then. With no permanent layout, I made a new track plan every year, in the same room as the tree, but separate. I wired up all the switches, and ran it like crazy because I could only run trains about a month a year.

@Ken Wing posted:

Your post speaks to me. I have a large 3-rail O-gauge layout in the basement, and always put up a couple of O-gauge loops around the tree. This year, both loops have Lionel prewar trains. I, too, run the sets that belonged to my dad as a child. He got a Winner Lines freight in 1932 so I have the same former Ives NYC gon, Baby Ruth box, and caboose as you. There's a 1940 O-27 passenger set with 1668E Torpedo loco and former Ives 1690/1691 cars. My favorite prewar is the 291W set from 1940--the semi-scale cars in the 2900 series. Over the years I've added a box, hopper, and two tanks to the original two freight cars, so it's quite a respectable train. Those 1940s accessories find their home here, too. In fact, this reminds me, I need to go to the attic to retrieve the AF water tower that belonged to my dad.

I don't think I get the same enjoyment from them I did as a kid, but then, I didn't just do loops back then. With no permanent layout, I made a new track plan every year, in the same room as the tree, but separate. I wired up all the switches, and ran it like crazy because I could only run trains about a month a year.

Thank you for sharing this, Ken. I can tell that it's a rabbit hole I could easily (and happily) go down. Love the memories of your early layouts! If you have time, share some pics of your current prewar trains around the tree. Happy holidays!

Good stuff, Kevin. Thanks for sharing. I really like those passenger cars you picked up.

I have my grandfather's 259 and 226e in original condition and a 258 he painted red (and chopped the tender to a slope back) to match a set of red dorfan passenger cars. I believe the red set was the christmas tree looper. My grandfather passed about 15 years ago and my dad is in a nursing home after a bad stroke at 60 years old. I'm going to visit him this weekend (4hr drive each way) with my wife and boys and will be bringing the 226e freight set along so he can see it run again. When I inherited the all the trains from him none of them ran. That's what got me into trains. The Christmas layout went onto saw horse in the basement and I eventually made a modest permanent layout.

Such great stories.  Thank you for sharing with us.

This is why the tinplate/prewar/postwar trains appeal to me. My Visionline stuff looks awesome against the start of my steel mill but these oldies just look perfect under a tree! I'm rocking an older 0-4-0. I'm not sure when it was made but it has the puffing smoke unit and I think it's just awesome chugging along on its little loop under the tree. Thanks for sharing!

I love the pre war equipment too!  Still on my want list.  Best, Dave

@CoastsideKevin You can find many bargains in the prewar world. Craftsmanship was often very good.

Tom

How many Christmases and Christmas trees that engine has seen!  Very cool!

Just think.... prewar in a realistic setting also works!  Also... there is something special about the smell of Evergreen and Ozone!

@PRRick posted:

Good stuff, Kevin. Thanks for sharing. I really like those passenger cars you picked up.

I have my grandfather's 259 and 226e in original condition and a 258 he painted red (and chopped the tender to a slope back) to match a set of red dorfan passenger cars. I believe the red set was the christmas tree looper. My grandfather passed about 15 years ago and my dad is in a nursing home after a bad stroke at 60 years old. I'm going to visit him this weekend (4hr drive each way) with my wife and boys and will be bringing the 226e freight set along so he can see it run again. When I inherited the all the trains from him none of them ran. That's what got me into trains. The Christmas layout went onto saw horse in the basement and I eventually made a modest permanent layout.

Great story. I was able to share my attic layout with my dad when he was in his 90s before he passed. After he had diligently stored our trains for me for 40 years, it all finally came full circle.

@BillYo414 posted:

This is why the tinplate/prewar/postwar trains appeal to me. My Visionline stuff looks awesome against the start of my steel mill but these oldies just look perfect under a tree! I'm rocking an older 0-4-0. I'm not sure when it was made but it has the puffing smoke unit and I think it's just awesome chugging along on its little loop under the tree. Thanks for sharing!

One hundred percent! 👍

@PRR8976 posted:

@CoastsideKevin You can find many bargains in the prewar world. Craftsmanship was often very good.

Tom

For sure. I’m amazed the paint is still glossy after 90 years

Added the hopper into the consist tonight!

And a couple more views..

This is the first video I ever took with my new camera. It took me several days to figure out how to get it from the camera to the computer. Then I had to learn how to get it under 100MB to upload it here.

@CoastsideKevin posted:

A couple of years ago, I inherited my father's 259e from the 1930s, and over the past few years I have put it in service around the Christmas tree.

I gradually collected a few freight cars for it, as you see here:

I have been really wanting to find some passenger cars to go with it, and this year I picked up a set from Trainz that I am very pleased with.

Although I have a reasonably sized O gauge layout in my attic, I have to say I just love this little set! At night, I shut off the lights and watch it go around the tree, and it brings back wonderful memories of being a kid and the delight I felt watching trains go around our tree.

Such a great hobby with its limitless variations!

Happy holidays, everyone.

Very cool, pre and post war have a special place…..

@Ken Wing posted:

This is the first video I ever took with my new camera. It took me several days to figure out how to get it from the camera to the computer. Then I had to learn how to get it under 100MB to upload it here.

Nice job - looks great!

Guys...Pre-War does not need to go around a Christmas tree...it looks good anywhere.  It's typically robust, easy to operate, easy to fix and reliable.  Pre-war locomotives come in many forms and made from cast iron, die cast metal & sheet metal.  Principal types are steam and electric outlines and power is mostly electric by the 1930's and clockwork or battery in the 1920's or earlier (most homes did not have electricity much earlier than 1920).

Lionel 238E from 1936-1938

American Flyer 3110 from 1928-1929

American Flyer - die cast Type X from mid 30's

American Flyer cast iron type 16 about 1931.  This is clockwork.

The most powerful Lionel 0 gauge loco , the 2 motor 256 from 1924-1930 Lionel did not make another 2 motored locomotive until the F3's of the post war period.

As you can tell, I am mostly a pre-war collector although its getting more and more rare.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Guys...Pre-War does not need to go around a Christmas tree...it looks good anywhere.  It's typically robust, easy to operate, easy to fix and reliable.  Pre-war locomotives come in many forms and made from cast iron, die cast metal & sheet metal.  Principal types are steam and electric outlines and power is mostly electric by the 1930's and clockwork or battery in the 1920's or earlier (most homes did not have electricity much earlier than 1920).

Lionel 238E from 1936-1938

American Flyer 3110 from 1928-1929

American Flyer - die cast Type X from mid 30's

American Flyer cast iron type 16 about 1931.  This is clockwork.

The most powerful Lionel 0 gauge loco , the 2 motor 256 from 1924-1930 Lionel did not make another 2 motored locomotive until the F3's of the post war period.

As you can tell, I am mostly a pre-war collector although its getting more and more rare.

Don

Great point, Don. I'll be running my little 259e on the big layout for sure.

Love your collection - great stuff!

Don, to your point about easy to fix--I agree. My dad's 1668E torpedo pilot truck was derailing at the one switch in the layout unless speed was very low.  The copper spring meant to press the axle down on the track was no longer performing that function. My dad had previously removed the front truck, and the deformed retaining ring wasn't going to go back on. After disassembly, I measured the diameter needed for the retaining ring--$1.42 for two 3/16" e-rings at Lowes. I bent the flat copper spring with pliers so it applied downward pressure on the pilot truck axle. The first e-ring flew off into the basement--even a magnet couldn't find it. I held my finger over the second as I installed it. Now it runs great.

Contrast that with spending several hundred dollars for circuit boards that require an anti-static bracelet to install, and hoping it will work out in the end, because you have no idea what's going on inside that controller or sound board.

Besides how i love the way they look I also like the way they are so easy to repair. I have rewound the armatures put new gears and wheels on them and they run great. Good for another 100 years .

@CoastsideKevin ; @Ken Wing ; @jim mcclain - Thank you all for your comments. Kevin glad to hear you will run your 259E on the "big layout"...Ken and Jim great stories on repair and they well illustrate my point about being able to keep the trains running ourselves.  Thank you all for taking the time to comment.

Don

Back to Don's point about easy to fix--I recently retrieved an old AF station platform from my parent's house that just needed new bulbs. Then I saw my Lionel one was much dimmer. The bulbs had not burnt out yet, but were quite black inside. I replaced them with new, so now much brighter. I have two 45 Lionel gatemen. One didn't work. I took it apart. Nothing wrong, just needed some lubrication. Still working on a Marx crossing bell that hasn't worked in decades, also recently retrieved from my parents. The guts work, but I need some insulating washers for the hot post. Having fun, and also very much wanting to honor the heritage of my dad and others who owned these before me.

Almost all I know about electricity and such I learned from model trains. The knowledge has served me well in and out of the hobby. Still hopeful to increase my sons' and grandsons' engagement.

@Ken Wing - Thanks for the comment Ken.  Good luck on the Marx crossing bell...normally whatever Marx lacks in detail or scale or prototypical appearance it makes up in reliability and robust operation.  I have almost never picked up a Marx engine that with a little cleaning and lubrication will run!  I will relate a story.  2 years ago I set up my (expensive) Lionel train set around the tree.  Classic Christmas eve problem...engine makes 1/2 loop, stops and refuses to do anything.  I panic but remember that summertime I had purchased an old Marx 400 plastic steamer, so out it comes from storage.  Well little lube, apply power and off it goes.  I noted that the Marx steamer was not only older but at $10 considerably cheaper than my fancy Lionel.  Even cooler, I discovered all the really cool stuff with the Lionel loco was actually in the tender...so not only did the trains run but I still had whistle, bell and chuff for steam.

Happy Holidays

Don

Don, not sure what your issue is with the Lionel locos. Both the Lionel locos in my video above were born in 1940. Torpedo has run most years since. The 226E had many years in storage before I bought it, and hasn't run every year since, but has always worked for me, except one year I had to replace the E-unit. I've never experienced your "classic Christmas Eve problem." My older sister owned a Marx steamer that always ran well, but fast. My younger sister owned Marx F-3 AAs that never ran well--not enough weight on the drivers, I think. There are several folks on this forum for whom Marx was and remains the foundation of their trains and layouts.

@Ken Wing - Ken perhaps my experience of the engine failing on Christmas eve after I had just purchased the set (at no small price) was coloring my text.  I too have many pw and pre-war Lionel locomotives all of which run very well.  However this was my first experience with a "modern" Lionel loco and as I said it was disappointing.  My experience with the pre-war locos is like yours, they are reliable and work well.  If they don't the problem is normally easy to fix .   Anyway thanks for your comment.

Don

I have only two modern Lionel locos, a 4-4-2 steamer and an FT A-B-A set. Both differ from pre- and postwar in not starting when you first turn on the juice, or even the second time, but reliably start up on the third time. The 4-4-2 also sometimes plays its bell or whistle when passing over a switch. Don't know why either happens. I've just lived with it so far.

@Ken Wing posted:

Back to Don's point about easy to fix--I recently retrieved an old AF station platform from my parent's house that just needed new bulbs. Then I saw my Lionel one was much dimmer. The bulbs had not burnt out yet, but were quite black inside. I replaced them with new, so now much brighter. I have two 45 Lionel gatemen. One didn't work. I took it apart. Nothing wrong, just needed some lubrication. Still working on a Marx crossing bell that hasn't worked in decades, also recently retrieved from my parents. The guts work, but I need some insulating washers for the hot post. Having fun, and also very much wanting to honor the heritage of my dad and others who owned these before me.

Almost all I know about electricity and such I learned from model trains. The knowledge has served me well in and out of the hobby. Still hopeful to increase my sons' and grandsons' engagement.

I love this point. I also consider myself the steward of these and will pass them on to my son in time. And I too learned a lot about wiring and electricity, much of it I put to use in the amateur radio hobby I picked up in my teens.

Kevin WK6V

@Don McErlean posted:

@Ken Wing - Thanks for the comment Ken.  Good luck on the Marx crossing bell...normally whatever Marx lacks in detail or scale or prototypical appearance it makes up in reliability and robust operation.  I have almost never picked up a Marx engine that with a little cleaning and lubrication will run!  I will relate a story.  2 years ago I set up my (expensive) Lionel train set around the tree.  Classic Christmas eve problem...engine makes 1/2 loop, stops and refuses to do anything.  I panic but remember that summertime I had purchased an old Marx 400 plastic steamer, so out it comes from storage.  Well little lube, apply power and off it goes.  I noted that the Marx steamer was not only older but at $10 considerably cheaper than my fancy Lionel.  Even cooler, I discovered all the really cool stuff with the Lionel loco was actually in the tender...so not only did the trains run but I still had whistle, bell and chuff for steam.

Happy Holidays

Don

Clever fix by using the modern tender with Marx engine!

I find myself at somewhat of a loss when a circuit board goes out on my modern trains. That's the beauty of pre and postwar trains - I can usually figure out how to repair them.

Kevin, I decided my 156 station wasn't bright enough. My 1949 instruction book said to use 6-8v bulbs. I had 14V in there. Nothing below 12v at the LHS. I've ordered 7.5v bulbs from McMaster Carr. Will let you know how they work. Also realized I was supposed to use a red bulb in my postwar 45 gateman since it does not have the red acetate lens in the base like the prewar one. Haven't addressed that yet. Have not yet gotten the Marx bell to work. Rings like crazy when taken apart and hooked to power, but haven't figured out what the issue is yet when assembled. Now have to choose between "Marx is easy to fix and Ken is an idiot," or "Marx can be challenging to fix."

@Ken Wing posted:

Kevin, I decided my 156 station wasn't bright enough. My 1949 instruction book said to use 6-8v bulbs. I had 14V in there. Nothing below 12v at the LHS. I've ordered 7.5v bulbs from McMaster Carr. Will let you know how they work. Also realized I was supposed to use a red bulb in my postwar 45 gateman since it does not have the red acetate lens in the base like the prewar one. Haven't addressed that yet. Have not yet gotten the Marx bell to work. Rings like crazy when taken apart and hooked to power, but haven't figured out what the issue is yet when assembled. Now have to choose between "Marx is easy to fix and Ken is an idiot," or "Marx can be challenging to fix."

Haha, I would definitely go with “challenging to fix!”

I also had need for several red bulbs, and I found that a couple of coats of red fingernail polish does the trick. Much easier to find than red bulbs. That said, there are red and green bulbs on eBay that fit the 022c controllers. They are screw based, but I also found BA9s in red and green for my postwar block signals.

Good luck!

The 7.5v bulbs came today and work great. The 156 station is now as bright as the AF one. I found a red bulb among my stuff in the basement. Had some chipped paint. Used a red marker, but also found if I screwed it in differently, the side with good paint was up, so postwar gateman good, too.  Finally got the Marx bell working. Needed to fabricate a couple of insulated washers, replace a binding post, and add a length of wire on the bottom. My wife hates it, even though I set the tension on the contractor so that it only rings for the loco, not the whole train. I was inspired by all this success to build a bell and whistle controller. Haven't tried it yet, because I need to disassemble the tender and lube the whistle, which has not been used in years. Meanwhile, nothing around the house is getting done.

Meanwhile, nothing around the house is getting done.

I am familiar with this situation!

The tender whistle works after a fashion. Built in 1940, it is tired. I suspect it worked better in the beginning. I also installed my Lionel crossing gate today, so 2023 is all about accessories. I ordered two more contractors on ebay. When they come, I'll wire the second gateman to the layout. The only other thing not done (which I'm not going to) is to wire up a kill section so the automatic stopping station stops the train. I decided I want a new red bulb for the postwar gateman anyway.

This thread helped inspire me to get all this done, so thank you @CoastsideKevin for kicking this off.

Like you I'm caught up in Pre-War Trains too. My first was my Fathers Lionel 261 that ran around the Christmas Tree for as long as I can remember. I guess because I played with it so much, one Christmas I got my own set of American Flyers and I was hooked on trains. When I retired I started a model RR and at one of the train shows I found some beat up Lionel 259E's, I thought that it would be nice to restore, I did restore it and two others plus many cars to go with them. For the Holidays I'm running the old 261 and all my other Pre-War trains, Lionel 1668 and all my 259E's. I just love to see these almost 100 year old trains still puffing along the tracks. I also made a passenger set of Lionel 610 & 612 cars with his family's pictures in the windows. Called the Ryder Express.

Did the 1668 originally have a clear lens insert in the headlight?

I don't know if it had a Headlight. It would be nice if it did....I'm sure you could find one to fit. I did a little searching but didn't find any with a Headlight.

My wife gave me a 3 car pre-war set a while back for a birthday present.  I have been putting together a small layout just for them, at the wiring stages now.  I hope to post pics here in a while as I have documented the build from step one.  But first, I have to replace the drivers that have the zinc pest problem, with a new set I got from the TrainTender.

@gene maag my 1668E has a headlight, which also lights up those red class lights. I can't remember if it ever had a lens when I was a kid.