FASTRACK SWITCH TRACK ISSUES

The metal rod is not functional. It just represents the prototype connection. If you have no recourse on returning them, the best fix is to buy the switch stand from Lionel or a dealer. I have changed 3 LEDs, but it's not easy. The switch stand is.

Order the 6102045126 from Lionelsupport.com. (LINK HERE) They are having 50% off parts through midnight tonight. I already ordered 2 of these for the same reason.

 

Here is how to change the led. Here is the switch stand

Its the one thing I hate about Fast Track switches. Have to dissemble trackage to get to switch to repair bad LEDs. Wonder why they didn't just make it a drop in from top? Maybe that was to easy. Had to pull up a lot of buildings and wires for the lighting inside them and a lot of trackage to get to 3 switches lights that had burned out, (one was a bad factory cold solder connection).  Now I just let them stay out.

What happened to the warranty? This should cost you nothing.

Thank you for all of the responses.  I have read that the rod is not functional and have been told to order new switch stands.  I have also read that these LED's go out all the time.  On the subject of the metal rod.  In the case of the two that don't work at all, it's not the rod being absent but that the switch stand is bad?  In the case of the lights, it's just easier to order new stands and install them?

According to Lionel, parts such as bulbs are not covered.  If I can get Lionel to respond to my email, I may ask them if I can order the switch stands I need to fix the ones that are not working free of charge.  I'll keep you posted on that one.

LED not warrantied? ....Boo! Hiss! 

Worthy of a nasty letter of reprimand and shying from purchase imo.

I'd convert MTH or other dwarf signals and photograph it to drive it all home 

   It's not an "oh well" issue to me when they choose the lamps and install them not to be replaced reasonably when they likely could have.

(Nearly as bad as as $1,200 automotive headlamps... Yep! $1200 each)

That's ridiculous! Do you hear me Lionel; RIDICULOUS !!!

The rod is for show only and a real pain to put back in. In my opinion, it is much easier to change the stand. In the PDF above , it tells how to check for voltage to make sure the led is blown

John from upstate, thank you, that explains volumes, and may I ask, PDF?  Am I missing something.

Oh and to Leo, I agree, that is ridiculous.  I may have read that wrong, but I am almost sure things like bulbs and traction tires are not covered under warranty.  Even at that, so they aren't a warrantied item, at least have the decency to replace defective parts out of the box.  And based on what the person told me in reply prior to this, for Lionel to even dream that the bulbs are expected to last the lifetime of the product is like saying we at whirlpool believe that our washers and dryers will never wear out so don't expect us to fix anything for free because our policy is clear, they are indestructible and it must have been your fault.

Keeping with the main theme of this thread, but having another question i'd like to field the forum, so as not to start another thread, have any of you ever had a problem getting your Lionel Locomotive programmed to work with DCS?  I watched Eric's Train video on YouTube that covered this step by step, did what he said, but for the life of me I can't get that lionel locomotive to respond to the remote.  It is supposed to work like or as much as it can, like the MTH locomotives, right?  I can't even get mine to start.  I appreciate all the help with the switch track.  In case you are new to this and like me have to take forever to get to the train track portion of your layout, understand that owners manuals leave stuff out.  I may have missed it, but Eric, not the DCS manual told me that I had to switch the locomotive from Run to Program (run to pgm) in order to get this ball rolling.  Then Eric, not the manual, told me I had to switch it back to run the train.  So if you have time and ability to test this stuff early, do so.  Stores frown on returns after 30 days.

In the fourth post of this thread I posted a PDF file on how to change the led. In that file are instructions on how to check voltage to the led. It's highlighted in blue.

I have 24 fastrack switches on my layout, never had a single issue with LED’s.  I would question the fact so many don’t work.  It is over exaggerated they go bad all the time. Perhaps your switch stand is not installed correctly and causing poor contact.  Also they have a year warranty, so why not contact Lionel?  

I have 22, and 5 went out. If they don't work even after I take them off the switch, I figure they are bad. I never said they go bad all the time, but some of us have had problems.

How are your switches powered?  Track or external Direct wiring?  Perhaps that is the cause of people with burned out LED’s? 

‘Mine are all powered by track (default).  Are people overpowering their switches?

Mine are 5 years running

Sean

Thank you.  As for the warranty thing, the switches are warranted, but I read the bulbs, traction tires and something else along those lines, are not covered by warranty.  I have contacted Lionel but no word yet.  Thank you for the information, I will check the switch stands as you advised.  Good to know that someone out there has had good luck with their switch track.  I have 18.  I was surprised by the outages as well.  I too power my track pieces using track.  One terminal hooked to the TIU in my case, I run remote, and then what looks like a never ending line of straights, curves, switches on switches, and more straights and curves until I finally have a complete layout.  Distance doesn't seem to be the problem.  I have four switches on one side of my ovals, and all four work true to form.  On the opposite side, four switches, only one has a working lamp, but all four switch correctly.  I have two switches in one area that don't work at all, but the remote lights work.  I love model railroading.

I would call Lionel as I noticed the e-mail response is super slow.  I know they are lights but technically not bulbs, they are LED’s .  Also tell them they were dead on arrival.  They should be covered.  Also check the copper contacts where switch stand connects to switch, just to verify they are actually bad and not just a bad connection.

Mine are powered separately by a Type V transformer at 14 volts, while the track is at 19 volts for DCS. I will say that once I fixed the bad ones, I haven't had any more trouble in about 4 years.

Were they bad right out of box or died later?  I wonder if right out of box are bad connections?

May I say that I am grateful to both of you for your sound advice.  As both of you know from experience, having a problem with your train track is not the same as having a problem with your furnace or your satellite dish.  I can call my furnace guy or Directv and get those repaired or maintained, but I'm on my own when it comes to the track and in most cases, shipping and handling becomes the only way to contact your guy to fix it.  At least in this case I have found a pool of people who can help me decide what to do.  Thanks to all of you for your advice, and record straight, I like Lionel and MTH equally, but I've had bad experiences when trying to return items or get broken items repaired, and Lionel sort of got grouped into the mix as being a possible candidate.  I'm going to troubleshoot first and then go the order the new stands route.  I will call Lionel as suggested. 

Bad right out of the box, never lit the first time.

An actual bulb or tire is a bit different. They are expendable.

An led is a component and a more permanent piece than a lamp.

  I assumed you knew for sure their stance (bad news bears) Placement has a lot to do with opinion here too. Reasonable replaclacement is the real point on warranty for me here. A lamp is a large part of the visual allure and is very much part of overall funtionality of the piece. If I can fix it for two bucks ok. If its more I think they should cover me.

My rant is unfounded if you assumed too.

Yardmaster96 posted:

May I say that I am grateful to both of you for your sound advice.  As both of you know from experience, having a problem with your train track is not the same as having a problem with your furnace or your satellite dish.  I can call my furnace guy or Directv and get those repaired or maintained, but I'm on my own when it comes to the track and in most cases, shipping and handling becomes the only way to contact your guy to fix it.  At least in this case I have found a pool of people who can help me decide what to do.  Thanks to all of you for your advice, and record straight, I like Lionel and MTH equally, but I've had bad experiences when trying to return items or get broken items repaired, and Lionel sort of got grouped into the mix as being a possible candidate.  I'm going to troubleshoot first and then go the order the new stands route.  I will call Lionel as suggested. 

If you don't have a local dealer that will stand behind their train product sales, then, calling the manufacturer should be your first move, especially if something doesn't work out of the box.

SandJam posted:

 

Mine are 5 years running

Knock on wood.

The information I am getting is helping.  Thanks to this thread I know now where to find the replacement parts, that the rod is just for show, and, I didn't know this and thank you, the LED's are not bulbs and as I was told, the lamp is an important part of the switch so the lionel warranty should cover the problem.  I have a pretty good idea of how I am going to proceed from here and it is thanks to all of you for your advice and input.  I'll let you know what happens.

John

There is a flaw in many of the command Fastrack switches that cooks the LED's in the switch,  This flaw may have been in the non-command ones as well, I can't say.  I replaced a bunch of LED's in my command switches before I found out why they were dying.  The fix is, of course, a new LED and also a series resistor to limit the current.  Apparently, they were pushing them too hard.

I have replaced a number of surface mount 220 ohm resistors which are in series with the LED(s). There are two of them in the earlier FT switches and if they don't pop, they do sometimes look overheated.

Chuck, change them to 470 and the LED's will last longer.

Gunrunner John

Good information for me to use when or if I finally call Lionel about this.  I hate to think that something so expensive would have such a blatant flaw.  I just emailed a service tech at a train store I have dealt with and she said voltage overload is a killer of LED's.  My track is connected using 16 gauge wire to an MTH TIU.  I used 16 gauge because another train store guy told me that's what he uses in his layouts.  Another said he was using 22 gauge on his and had no issues with dead spots or power bleed.  Only one track piece, the specifically bought terminal track that is more expensive than the regular 10 inch track because of two lousy 22 gauge wires, is the only track piece that is "wired for sound" as the saying goes.  One piece is wired to the base 1L box that i'm not sure is working correctly either.  But I have no blocks of wired track that lead back to anything to account for distance or weak links in the chain.  Could it be that my wire of choice is overloading the system?  And to anyone else reading this reply, I'm new to this stuff.  This is my maiden voyage into electricity and train track. So feel free to not only dumb down your explanations back to me, if you want, stupid them down.  I need to know if what I am doing is correct or over the top or not enough.  I've spent 6 months building the train room for my layout and now the train and track are serving up all sorts of problems, and I don't have a furnace guy or an appliance guy I can call to come look at it.  It's up to me to research this and figure it out on my own.

Hopefully with help from experienced people.  That's why I am here.  I need help.

Thanks to all who have helped and taken the time to give the information I currently have gathered.

While 14 gauge wire would be preferable, you should not have an issue with 16 gauge wire to power your track, assuming everything is wired correctly and you are running at the correct voltage (18v for command control). Since you're running your switches off track power they should only "see" the voltage that you are putting into the track, unless you have a short or something not wired correctly. I don't think you said what transformer you are using, but I assume it is set for the correct voltage.

Not having power drops should also not affect the switches - in fact, just the opposite, in that they may not be getting enough voltage without power drops around the layout.

You talked about using a TIU, but also a FT terminal strip which uses a barrel connector. It might help if you could explain how everything is wired on your layout; i.e., what goes into what.  

One thing I would do is invest in an inexpensive digital volt meter (dvm), which will allow you to test for voltage around the track and at the switches to see what your layout is doing.

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Chuck, change them to 470 and the LED's will last longer.

Good idea. I’ve lost more resistors though than LEDs. Either one is better off with 470 ohms though. 

Running the switch on auxiliary power is probably a great idea however. Maybe down around 12 vac they would still work well.

Richie

All good points and thank you for the advice on the wire gauge.  You mentioned explaining how I have the track and the wiring set up.  Actually I'm glad you opened that door because I am, even with the issues I've been having, quite proud of my rookie layout for what it's worth.  I have 3 oval tracks.  The outer most is a main line the middle is a main line and the inner most oval is a yard track where I have set up 5 tracks that turn left or turn right into the center of the room and act as drop tracks for the engine and its rolling stock to sit while other engines pretend to pull freight to fictitious destinations as they continuously go around and around over and over again.  I have 5 locomotives representing the five class 1 railroads in the US.  I read about other railroaders hooking up each track to the TIU separately so as to be able to control each track individually.

In my case I have interconnected all 3 ovals and the parking area tracks as one giant daisy chain of track that ultimately form the ability for any engine to use any track or parking area and return to the main line tracks going either direction.  This being the case I have used on 10 inch straight piece, again the store bought terminal section that costs more because it has the wires attached, discarded the factory wires, assembled my own red and black 16 gauge wires, and painstakingly managed to run them from the terminal track to the TIU fixed out 1 ports.  Behind the OUT port 1, is of course the IN port 1.  Hooked to that set of holes is the 180 watt "brick".  I had to do some creative engineering to be able to do that, but thanks to Joey at Nick Smith Trains, I was able to cut off the special plug it came with, find the red wire equivalent, which is the one with the writing on it that requires a microscope to see, and wired one of those "banana" terminals to the end of each split off wire.  So to answer the question what transformer am I using, my TIU is not powered to a transformer, it's powered by a brick unit directly.

From the TIU computer port I have my Base 1L Lionel box attached.  Until I figure out these switch track and get them working correctly, I have yet to wire those to the two AIU units I had to buy.  The AIU units are attached to the TIU and each other, but no SW stuff yet.  I plan to use 26 gauge wire for that since the ports are so incredibly small.  Other than that, I have one wire, a white one, 16 gauge, that runs from the U connector on the Base 1L box to the ground rail on a nearby 10 inch track piece.  That's all there is to it.  Due to how I have to switch the trains from one oval to another and space available in a 20x20 room that has four columns holding up the garage floor, that's right, my train room is under my garage.  Not in my garage, under my garage.  I did have to get creative with how the switches are connected.  I have left hand and right hands working in close proximity making sure the train has the ability to cleanly get off one track to another to another before it has to park.

No really, it's under my garage

Well it sounds like you have a brick going into Fixed 1 on the TIU and then out to a terminal section of FT, which should be fine; although with 3 ovals and ?? feet of track, I'm not sure how much power is making it's way to the outermost points of the layout. In addition, that brick has a very fast acting short control, so it's unlikely that's where your issue is. It's not clear to me whether the AIU's are hooked up or not, but I would leave them out of the equation for now and just control the FT switches using the manual switch controller and track power until you get them straightened out and find out why the switch LED's are blowing.

Get that dvm and check your voltages on both sides of the TIU; at the terminal section; and around the track and at the switches. That's a good way to find out if excess voltage is burning out the LED's. Also, run your hand all around the FT track surface of all 3 ovals and make sure there are no hot spots.

Richie

I agree with you that all issues with the switches should be worked out before attaching them to the AIU's.  As I mentioned, they are hooked to the TIU, but no switch is hooked to the AIU's.

As for distance, I can't even answer ?? feet of track.  The room is 20x20 give or take.  It was an old water cistern under the garage but we finally got city water to the country and abandoned it.  I was able to use all but about 12 inches of space out from each wall except for the back of the room where I built the cabinet in which I set my operations center, (TIU, AIU's, Base 1L, Grandson's train transformer, Brick).  So 20 inches of space is not tracked back there.  Four 15 foot straights connected by curves, so at the most the most distant part of the layout is 15, 16 feet from the TIU and terminal piece.  Two sets of four switches are maybe 12 feet from the terminal.  The switches in the front of the room near the entry door are 15 feet from the terminal.  But, two active switches in the back of the room where the cabinet is located, are working, but have dead lights.  The set of four on the left side of the room as you face the back of the room are all working and lit.  The set of four directly across the room, same distance from the cabinet, all work, but 3 are dead lights.  The two that don't work at all, one doesn't have the cosmetic rod, the other, the rod fell out and I don't think I got it back in correctly.  But, I have been told the rods are cosmetic and don't have any functional use.  Not all of my track is connected, due to distance issues and parts on order to remedy these issues.

As I have eluded to, this is still a work in progress, but, due to circumstances I have been able to finally test some train related issues...….many train related issues.

Well, you are in deep now, so, there may be some backtracking to do.

The first issue is that you'll have to adjust the track plan/connections to isolate the center rail for DCS blocks. You have three loops at an estimated loop of 60+ feet. I would say that you could break each loop into 4- 15' blocks. The best way to do this with FasTrack, is to use the 1 3/8" piece to create the blocks by removing the center jumper wire. There is also a 5" Block track that has removable jumper for both hot and common. So, it depends on what will easiest for you to retrofit these tracks. Adding one at each end of the straights will do this for you.Then, each block will get its' own hot wire at the beginning of a block connected to one of the terminals under the 1 3/8" piece. (4 per loop) The MTH terminal block board provides a way to get all of these power drops. The terminal board then connects to the TIU. One of the 50-1014 at each side of center of one 50-1020 in the center will work.

Secondly, most that are running both command systems connect the common wire of the Base 1L to the TIU common (black) out at the TIU.

Finally, while you eliminating electrical issues, it is a known issue that FasTrack switches can create interference with the DCS signal. Replacing the track power jumper with a choke will eliminate the possibility of this happening. This one should work

Now, back to where you are now. Rolling a lighted car around should help you find if and where you have power issues. These can be track related and are sometimes easily fixed by taking out a 5" or 10" piece near the dead spot and turning it around and reinstalling it.

Having only one power feed (terminal track) on each loop shouldn't be a problem to test track connectivity and switch operation or run conventional and Lionel command.

So, power up the layout and roll a lighted car around and see what you find.

Moonman

Tons of thank you for the information.  One thing you just did was inform me that the smaller track pieces are for more than just those nagging issues of "how the heck am I going to fill this gap."  I have several spots on my layout where after I used all the 10's, and inserted a switch or two, the track was 1 3/4 inches away from completing a full oval. In some cases 6 3/4 inches, and in a couple of cases because I'm completely out of 10's right now, I had a 27" gap and a 90 5/8" gap.  I did the math and found my gaps need to be a bit wider to equal out to the parts I have to choose from.  I had no idea those smaller pieces were also block pieces.  I kept reading about blocks on your layout.  I thought they were for the reason I mentioned, you started at one spot and after your finished a complete oval, you were 1 3/8, 1 3/4, 4 1/2, or 5 inches short.  I did wonder how Lionel came to the conclusion you needed those specific measurements.

Also, and this is for clarification.  You recommend I take the white wire I used to hook the Base 1L to the track, and trade hooking it to the track for direct connection to the black wire on the TIU.  Easy enough to do, especially with the way I have the black wire attached to the TIU, but wanted to make sure I was reading you correctly.

I have a lighted caboose.  I know, Flashing Infrared Lights are now put on the last car of every train to tell the signals you've passed the crossings, or maybe something new has been developed, but I use a caboose.  When I slowly push the car around the track, do I watch for flickering or total lights out at the weak spots.  To me, and this is just my thinking, dead spots would cause the engine to suddenly just stop. 

Moonman

Sorry one more question

The terminal block connects to the TIU.  Do I use the same Fixed In port I am already using to attach the brick, or do I use the same Fixed Out port where the track is currently being attached?  Do I use or can I use another attaching point on the TIU?

Please advise and thank you.

Yardmaster96 posted:

Moonman

Sorry one more question

The terminal block connects to the TIU.  Do I use the same Fixed In port I am already using to attach the brick, or do I use the same Fixed Out port where the track is currently being attached?  Do I use or can I use another attaching point on the TIU?

Please advise and thank you.

Yes, brick in on Fixed 1, Fixed 1 out to terminal board, then terminal board to track connections - one pair of hot/common to each point.

Yardmaster96 posted:

Moonman

Tons of thank you for the information.  One thing you just did was inform me that the smaller track pieces are for more than just those nagging issues of "how the heck am I going to fill this gap."  I have several spots on my layout where after I used all the 10's, and inserted a switch or two, the track was 1 3/4 inches away from completing a full oval. In some cases 6 3/4 inches, and in a couple of cases because I'm completely out of 10's right now, I had a 27" gap and a 90 5/8" gap.  I did the math and found my gaps need to be a bit wider to equal out to the parts I have to choose from.  I had no idea those smaller pieces were also block pieces.  I kept reading about blocks on your layout.  I thought they were for the reason I mentioned, you started at one spot and after your finished a complete oval, you were 1 3/8, 1 3/4, 4 1/2, or 5 inches short.  I did wonder how Lionel came to the conclusion you needed those specific measurements.

I have attached a FasTrack lengths combination for you. measure the gap, then check for a combination of pieces. There are some were there is no combination.

Also, and this is for clarification.  You recommend I take the white wire I used to hook the Base 1L to the track, and trade hooking it to the track for direct connection to the black wire on the TIU.  Easy enough to do, especially with the way I have the black wire attached to the TIU, but wanted to make sure I was reading you correctly.\

Well, it's the track wire from the Base 1L that goes to an outside rail. Connecting it to the Black Out terminal on the TIU ensures that the signal gets to all the connections that go from the TIU.

I have a lighted caboose.  I know, Flashing Infrared Lights are now put on the last car of every train to tell the signals you've passed the crossings, or maybe something new has been developed, but I use a caboose.  When I slowly push the car around the track, do I watch for flickering or total lights out at the weak spots.  To me, and this is just my thinking, dead spots would cause the engine to suddenly just stop. 

The caboose is fine, Flickering is not as important as dimming or no lights. Flickering may suggest dirty track or the caboose wheels or rollers are dirty.

 

Most command locos have a "keep alive" circuit that keeps an engine's processing active over short, fast, loss of power.  A flicker is nothing.

There are solutions to lessen or eliminate car flicker if it bothers you. Lots of threads... or start another

A caboose is a good test lamp, but not a great one.

Moonman

I looked at the 50-1014 and saw what you are talking about.  Locations 1-12 have, for ease of terminology in my case, a red screw and a black screw.  At the bottom there is a very large red screw on one side and a very large black screw on the other side.  That's where you attach the board to the TIU Fixed Out port.  Am I correct?

Also, I am going to change how I set up the Base 1L wire from the U connection.  I just need to make sure I am on the right page with this.  I can run the Base 1L wire from the U connection on the box to the black wire leading into the Fixed In or out port.  I assume based on how it is hooked up now, it would be the out port wire since that is the wire leading to the same track that I just unhooked from.  However, if I attach the TIU to a terminal block, would I run that wire to the ground screw on the block or can I run it to the ground wire connection at the out port.  So long as this wire is connected to the ground wire leading to the track in whatever way it leads there?

I know, a lot to swallow.  Hopefully I haven't frustrated you too much.  You are helping me in ways that I can never repay.  If I haven't said thank you enough, please know I do appreciate your time and patience.  This forum is about all I have to go on when it comes to train tech support.  I don't know if the rest of the forum has the same ignore me issues that I do with actual train stores, but for all the help they are when you can get a person to answer you or talk to you, they are very bad about answering emails, and I leave more messages than I get voices on the other end of the phone.

John

Adriatic

Good information on the caboose issue.  I'll be sure to clean the track once I finally get all of it hooked together.  One thing though.  When I was slowly running it around the track, the light inside pretty much stayed on as bright as it can shine.  However, when I reached one of the switch track, at about the mid point way through the switch, the light went dead.  I pushed the car a bit further, light came back on.  I rolled it backward, light went dead and then almost immediately as it continued backward, it came back on.  Do I have a dead spot in my switch, a bad wire, or a dirty track?

Thanks

John (or yardmaster if we are using our made up names) A line from Avengers Infinity War

Yardmaster96 posted:

Adriatic

Good information on the caboose issue.  I'll be sure to clean the track once I finally get all of it hooked together.  One thing though.  When I was slowly running it around the track, the light inside pretty much stayed on as bright as it can shine.  However, when I reached one of the switch track, at about the mid point way through the switch, the light went dead.  I pushed the car a bit further, light came back on.  I rolled it backward, light went dead and then almost immediately as it continued backward, it came back on.  Do I have a dead spot in my switch, a bad wire, or a dirty track?

Thanks

John (or yardmaster if we are using our made up names) A line from Avengers Infinity War

Yardmaster96 posted:

Moonman

I looked at the 50-1014 and saw what you are talking about.  Locations 1-12 have, for ease of terminology in my case, a red screw and a black screw.  At the bottom there is a very large red screw on one side and a very large black screw on the other side.  That's where you attach the board to the TIU Fixed Out port.  Am I correct?

Yes, you have it

Also, I am going to change how I set up the Base 1L wire from the U connection.  I just need to make sure I am on the right page with this.  I can run the Base 1L wire from the U connection on the box to the black wire leading into the Fixed In or out port.  No in, out only.

I assume based on how it is hooked up now, it would be the out port wire CORRECT since that is the wire leading to the same track that I just unhooked from.  However, if I attach the TIU to a terminal block, would I run that wire to the ground screw on the block or can I run it to the ground wire connection at the out port. Still the out on TIU with the common to the Terminal Board(s) 

So long as this wire is connected to the ground wire leading to the track in whatever way it leads there? Yes

I know, a lot to swallow.  Hopefully I haven't frustrated you too much.  You are helping me in ways that I can never repay.  If I haven't said thank you enough, please know I do appreciate your time and patience.  This forum is about all I have to go on when it comes to train tech support.  I don't know if the rest of the forum has the same ignore me issues that I do with actual train stores, but for all the help they are when you can get a person to answer you or talk to you, they are very bad about answering emails, and I leave more messages than I get voices on the other end of the phone.

No problem, you are not the first starting out that was helped by others. That was me at one time.

John

 

Yardmaster96 posted:

Adriatic

Good information on the caboose issue.  I'll be sure to clean the track once I finally get all of it hooked together.  One thing though.  When I was slowly running it around the track, the light inside pretty much stayed on as bright as it can shine.  However, when I reached one of the switch track, at about the mid point way through the switch, the light went dead.  I pushed the car a bit further, light came back on.  I rolled it backward, light went dead and then almost immediately as it continued backward, it came back on.  Do I have a dead spot in my switch, a bad wire, or a dirty track?

Thanks

John (or yardmaster if we are using our made up names) A line from Avengers Infinity War

The switch is a problem. It would best to remove it and replace with some straights. Then, you can work on it somewhere comfortable.

it sounds like this is one the problems.

Is this a used switch?

What type?

Oops! Here is the FasTrack combo length chart that I forgot.

It's a maybe IMO. A single roller caboose, or "bad luck" in the spacing of rollers in design could be the cause. Too many different designs exist to guarantee a switch will be trouble free for everything that may roll across it. Carl's suggestion to remove it for now is a good one. Sort of a reverse process of elimination. Get the basics right then worry about additions working, one by one. (I may have missed something as well. I haven't been following super closely as Im not intimately familiar with the sw. build like Carl is. My strength is general troubleshooting, and associative methods similar to other areas of electronics Ive had experince with [wide variety, nothing extremely "deep" compared to an engineer, but enough to feed myself and call a few (major&minor) mistakes in my fields ..degree or not, we are all human ])

oh, "the leds".  I recalled another thread similar to this from the past now, but don't recall how it was handled... might have been the replacement thread. I do not have anything definative to add for dim led.

I'm guessing the cause of the leds going 100% bad here is coil activation related spikes.  I'd likely try a tvs to stop it.  A preventative fix with no proof of it's success ever; but wouldn't hurt to try.

  In my trades, I was replacing an led of one kind or another weekly out of about 50- 500 total.  The life expectancy of an led is based on a prefect scenereo. Issues lead to more issues; led being taken out by a less than prefect situation is far more likely than the situation remaining perfect enough to reach max life expectancy. Because I've replaced so many,  I still like bulbs best for the simplistic nature... and the type of light emmited when it is for illumination of our surroundings. 

I have several bits of advice to reply too in this one so bear with me.

Moonman.  Thanks for the help, again, and thanks for the track piece list.  I'll get back you on that one.

As for removing the switch that briefly deadened the light in my caboose, I can't really remove that switch because it is fastened to butt to butt with a second switch that allows the train to divert off of the outer most track to the middle track, then go straight or divert again to the inner most oval that leads to the parking tracks.  Because the outer most and middle tracks are both main line routes, simply put you can make two trains go in the same or opposite direction around and around for hours, I had to hook a right hand turn directly to a left hand turn, then butt another right hand turn to the back of that one so the train could snake through to the inner most or "yard" oval as I call it.  Now I didn't add and 1 3/8 or 3/4 blocks, I just married them directly to each other when I did this.  Should I have maybe added said blocks to give the transitions a bit more flexibility.  What I am trying to ask is, the direct connect scenario seems to be a bit "cramped".

One thing I should mention, and I should have mentioned way back when I started this thread.  My track is currently fraught with gaps.  I may have mentioned this.  I have been pulling my hair out, pushing, pulling, sliding, cursing, adding and subtracting, measuring, and consuming copious amounts of alcohol trying to figure out how to make these **** straight stretches come together as one long stretch of completed track.  Room dimensions, curve diameter, lack of knowledge as to how to set up a functional layout, and the ever popular how it looked in my head versus how it is mapping out on the floor, have caused me to become intimately familiar with the 5, 4 1/2, 1 3/4, and 1 3/8 blocks.  Pieces I did not posses when I started this.  They are shipped.  Shipped....not here.  So in place of track I currently have post it notes with "use one 5 and one 1 3/8 here" etc etc.

So if you are wondering how I can be so familiar with the specialty lengths, but not know anything about how they work or why they were designed to work the way they do, it's because I thought I could 10 inch the living hell out of this layout and all my lengths would fit together like a perfect oval puzzle.  WRONG.  But thanks to all of you and a little help from Jack Daniels (line from chrismas vacation, I really don't drink), I'm learning.  Long story short but probably not the case, my LED problem could be due to not having a complete connection track as of yet.  I've already derailed once because I got enamored with my engine speeding around the outer most track only to have it violently stopped by a missing 4 1/2 inch piece.

Your approach to the track assembly is ok. Now, just use a tape measure on the gaps and then look at the chart to find what tracks will fill the gap.

Some items that will throw you are the switch through lengths. O48, O60 and O72 are different lengths that are fractions.

Putting the switch track end to end on the through without the 1 3/8 half-road bed (for O60 & O72)) pieces is ok. It comes out shorter in total length. Same for the diverging or turn-out.

Snaking the switches to get from outermost to the innermost loop is ok. The fitter pieces really help with center rail to center rail spacing or moving the loops in relation to one another.

One issue that will get you is that the O60 turnout will not replace an O60 curve. I don't know why it was designed that way. It makes the O60 kind of an orphan.

My concern is that the center metal piece of the problem switch may be dead. The roller is fine on any of the rails getting power. The wheels get common. It sounds like you are describing when the roller is on the center piece it is dead.

Check the position of the roller when the caboose lights go out.

You'll have to remove the offending switch to diagnose and repair it.

So, check the exact position of the roller.

Moonman

I have finally gotten all of my gaps measured and with some minor adjusting managed to get all of them divisible by Lionel.  I'll let you figure that one out, will explain if you are curious.

As for the turnout dimensions, or gauge, or arc, whatever it is referred to, I use 072 across the board.  Now, for the "you can't do that" or the "you shouldn't be doing that".  I used 072 curve to create the Union Pacific parking track that is as I explained, one of five parking area tracks that spin off the third or yard track oval.  I had to.  It's the DDA40X.  I call it the stretch limo.  It has to have no less than 072 to turn.  The thing looks like a jacked up mobile home going through the switches.  It reminds me of those New York ladder trucks where one firefighter has to steer the rear to corner at intersections.  Anyway, I used a 10 inch straight directly off the turnout to force the issue of alignment with the opposite end where the left hand switch was waiting to match up.  I then curved 072 three times to get the straight away started.  I didn't use 072 curve on the others.

My CSX ES44AC by MTH is a Railking design.  Being Railking it is rated for 036 curve.  At least in Lionel's stable it is 036.  Realtrax equivalent is even narrower than that.  So the CSX parking track begins at the turnout with an 036 curve to bend it close to the columns, then fans out a bit using 060.  All I can say is that it has been tested and the engine doesn't do anything funky when it navigates the turn.  Since the rest of my engines are rated in MTH jargon for 048, I used the 060's to begin their turns.

As you are probably aware, turn arc makes a big difference in how much floor you cover in a full or partial curve.  You'd like to keep the tracks all nice and tucked in neat and pretty with just the right amount of space to allow two trains to meet harmoniously with no sideswipe, but when you have to use the 60's, 72's and 84's, your curves determine actual layout space.  So my gaps are more an inability to keep the layout tight, than they are inability to purchase custom lengths.

As for the dead spot, I will wait until my gap tracks are on site and installed and I have a complete layout before I do a full blown test of the electricity flow.  Your information regarding the terminal board was golden.  I can do a lot with that, now that I know how it works.

I do want to pass something along, that I think is still true today.  I only say this because I bought my switch track in April and I received what I received.  I watched a tube video made by one of those hand models, (you never see his face, just his hands), travis I think, who explained why switch track jam up when you exchange sides with the lamp stand.  He showed us that a manufactures defect that China either doesn't know about, knows but can't change it due to contractual issues, or knows but really doesn't care since Lionel is also probably aware of it but won't go to the trouble of telling China to fix it, is the culprit.  RH or LH, doesn't matter, when you change the lamp stand from the factory spec side over to the opposite side, the opposite female connection slide has a (and I apologize this isn't an attempt to be crude or funny), a nipple.  The factory side is a clean square, smooth all around, but the opposite slide connection point has a nipple on the corner.  Travis said he has repaired every switch he bought.   The fix.  Trim off the **** nipple and sand it down smooth.  Now when you install the lamp stand on the opposite side, the missing nipple doesn't cause the slide to get crimped down when you tighten the screws.

Wonder what else Lionel knows about that China isn't allowed to fix?

  I'm a bit "out of it" from low blood sugar and can't recall if I mentioned it or not; deep reading a real chore at the moment; but leaving a way for track to expand a little is prudent. The rails do get warm and expand some when in use. Too tight and buckling pressure can occur.

A volt/ohm meter may help a lot.  Harbor Freight often has coupons for a free one with any purchase. Finding another useful item is pretty easy. It's not professional quality,(few items there are), but good enough for the majority of work we do in the hobby. Better than a caboose  ...at times

Yardmaster96,  Has Lionel responded to your inquiry about warranty coverage?  AS several posters have stated, LEDs are electronic components, not bulbs.  When properly applied LEDs have a theoretical life of as much as 100,000 hours. This is the reason it is not designed to be easily replaced by the user and a reason Lionel should cover the failure.  This problem appears to be an issue of infant mortality of the LED component, a misapplication of the chosen LED, or a mis-design of the circuitry.  Again all reasons the warranty should apply.  If Lionel does not intend to warranty LEDs they should state a specific exclusion, since LEDs are not bulbs

Good to know and thank you for the information.  My plan once I have the track completely connected is to see just what switches have LED issues, and see what switches have mechanism issues.  Once I am sure there is a problem with the switch stand and not the way I have them attached or low voltage, I am going to contact lionel by phone and discuss a possible solution that involves them sending me the number of replacements I need to fix my problem and then see where it goes from there.  My goal is to get those replacements free of charge, free of shipping because they were defective out of the box.  Something tells me before they will do that, I will have to perform some sort of electrical engineering feat and prove they are dead and that my layout didn't kill them.

I'm still looking for a good Ohm meter or multimeter.  Will probably get one, but for now, my best friend has one. 

Yardmaster96 posted:

Moonman

I have finally gotten all of my gaps measured and with some minor adjusting managed to get all of them divisible by Lionel.  I'll let you figure that one out, will explain if you are curious.

As for the turnout dimensions, or gauge, or arc, whatever it is referred to, I use 072 across the board.  Now, for the "you can't do that" or the "you shouldn't be doing that".  I used 072 curve to create the Union Pacific parking track that is as I explained, one of five parking area tracks that spin off the third or yard track oval.  I had to.  It's the DDA40X.  I call it the stretch limo.  It has to have no less than 072 to turn.  The thing looks like a jacked up mobile home going through the switches.  It reminds me of those New York ladder trucks where one firefighter has to steer the rear to corner at intersections.  Anyway, I used a 10 inch straight directly off the turnout to force the issue of alignment with the opposite end where the left hand switch was waiting to match up.  I then curved 072 three times to get the straight away started.  I didn't use 072 curve on the others.

That isn't a problem making the track that way.

As for the dead spot, I will wait until my gap tracks are on site and installed and I have a complete layout before I do a full blown test of the electricity flow.  Your information regarding the terminal board was golden.  I can do a lot with that, now that I know how it works.

The FasTrack switches will get power as long a one end has hot & common. The gap on one end shouldn't matter.

I do want to pass something along, that I think is still true today.  I only say this because I bought my switch track in April and I received what I received.  I watched a tube video made by one of those hand models, (you never see his face, just his hands), travis I think, who explained why switch track jam up when you exchange sides with the lamp stand.  He showed us that a manufactures defect that China either doesn't know about, knows but can't change it due to contractual issues, or knows but really doesn't care since Lionel is also probably aware of it but won't go to the trouble of telling China to fix it, is the culprit.  RH or LH, doesn't matter, when you change the lamp stand from the factory spec side over to the opposite side, the opposite female connection slide has a (and I apologize this isn't an attempt to be crude or funny), a nipple.  The factory side is a clean square, smooth all around, but the opposite slide connection point has a nipple on the corner.  Travis said he has repaired every switch he bought.   The fix.  Trim off the **** nipple and sand it down smooth.  Now when you install the lamp stand on the opposite side, the missing nipple doesn't cause the slide to get crimped down when you tighten the screws.

Wonder what else Lionel knows about that China isn't allowed to fix?

You have to take that with a grain of salt. Model train products that have issues are typically in just one production run. The FasTrack switches have had a couple of them through the years. I haven't opened a new switch, so it may or may not have the offending molding "nipple".

Taking the switch off of the layout and removing the base cover for bench testing will usually lead to discovery of the problem. The are all not difficult to resolve.

 

Yardmaster96 posted:

I'm still looking for a good Ohm meter or multimeter.  Will probably get one, but for now, my best friend has one. 

Any of harbor Freight's are suitable for model train work and troubleshooting. They are usually $8 - $15. Then, search Craigslist for a used Fluke. takes a while to see one that is inexpensive.

Yardmaster96 posted:

I'm still looking for a good Ohm meter or multimeter.  Will probably get one, but for now, my best friend has one. 

I have an assortment of meters, from expensive Fluke bench meters to the little Harbor Freight clamp-on multi-meter.  Any of them are suitable for most of the things you'd do with model trains unless you're designing circuitry or doing precision measurements.

I actually like the little HF meter for it's convenience and the ease of a quick current measurement when working on the bench.

6 Function Mini Clamp Meter

I bought a fluke 87 for $100 years ago at a ham fest. Great buy!

I have an ancient Fluke 77 that served me for around 15 years, but the ohms are now out of calibration and there's no easy or cheap way to fix it.  The voltages still work fine and are within a couple percent, but I had to finally retire it for a newer meter.

My most commonly used meter nowadays is the Fluke 117, though I go to the bench 8012A to measure low ohm parts.

The Harbor Freight clamp meter GRJ posted above is a nice one at a good price. While you are there getting yours, take this Coupon for a free Digital Multimeter and get one of those too.

I really appreciate the assistance in my search for a meter, but I have to be honest and I'm a bit embarrassed to say this, but I have not a clue how you use one of those things.  Brett used to get his out and hook up the leads and turn the dial to some setting and touch wires and get either a positive look on his face and say, well that's not the problem, or a pained look and say, that's not good.  This is why I don't want to spend anymore money on a tool I wouldn't know if I was using it right or not.  So if anyone feels like giving me a quick tutorial on how to use a volt meter or multimeter and if the two are different, I would greatly appreciate the help.

Do a search on youtube for something like 'how to use a multimeter' or 'using a multimeter'. They are also sometimes called DM, DMM, volt meter, current meter, etc. There are probably several out there that will not only explain but illustrate their uses. The video instruction is probably better than trying to explain in written text anyway.

Most multimeters purchased new should come this instructions. I have one more expensive meter that has instructions that I still refer to occasionally. 

Good advice, actually did that. Found one on a video where a guy was showing us how to fix a continuity issue.  He showed me how to test for continuity, then how to fix the problem if the center rail doesn't go beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.  One problem though.

I switched to how to test voltage.  The first thing I need to know is do I put the black lead to the ground or common rail and the red lead to the center rail.  If so, what's good?  What's bad and what's "this is what you ultimately want the meter to read for best case scenario".

There are many others here more qualified and able to describe this much better, but I'll give it a try. For measuring voltage I think it's good practice to use red for the positive (center rail) and black for common (outer rail). Our O gauge three rail trains are almost always AC so it will read the same either way. This is called polarity and it does matter with DC voltage. Red is positive and black is negative or common. Of course the meter inputs are marked and the leads need to be connected to the meter accordingly.

Probably the most important thing to remember when using a meter is to select the proper meter dial setting and range for the voltage, AC, DC, resistance or continuity, current, etc. that you are trying to measure. Measuring voltage with the meter set to resistance (continuity) will either blow the meter's internal fuse or ruin the meter if it isn't fused. Don't ask me how I know this...(but mine was fused). 

You put the black lead to the outside Rail, and the red lead to the center rail.  There is no good or proper voltage it should read.   It just reads the voltage your transformer is applying to the track depending upon where the transformer handle is set or what power supply you're using.  A good test would be to test your voltage across the posts of your transformer with a handle set to a certain position, and then test the actual track voltage when set at the same position. It should be fairly close to what the transformer is putting out.  You can then go around your track sections using the meter connected to the outside rail and the inside rail as described above and test each section and see if it's getting the same, or near the same voltage is the previous. Or in your case you may just be concerned with the switch / switches.  Voltage will go down the further you get away from the transformer connections unless you have multiple feeds to your track.

Train Nut

Thanks for the advice, hadn't thought of that approach.  I'll do that after I get my computer work done and see what I get.  Thanks to both replies telling me that I need to put the black to the ground and the red to the center.  Makes sense

So, getting to the crux of the biscuit, go to the offending switch and test all the rails and finally the red to center metal piece with the black to an outside rail on the through track.

The inside rails at the V of the turnout are isolated for non-derail. leave those out of the testing.