First Super-Chuffer install that really needed the smaller Super-Chuffer II board.

Here's is a Lionel 2-8-0 Consolidation that I just installed a new smoke unit, Super-Chuffer II, and the Chuff-Generator.  This is the first install for the Super-Chuffer II that I've done that actually required the smaller form-factor of the SC-II.

The Super-Chuffer II is actually crammed into the tiny space under the smoke unit, it's the only place that it would fit.  If I put it under the Odyssey board, it hung over the edge and looked ugly as you can see that area from the side above the drive wheel.  The Chuff-Generator was a similarly tight fit, that's the only place I could mount it, and I had to hog off the cast in mounting post on that side for it to fit.  The MTH smoke unit I usually use had no chance of fitting, so I used a LionChief Plus smoke unit. 

This is pretty well packed now.

Lionel 2-8-0 SC-II Upgrade N1Lionel 2-8-0 SC-II Upgrade N2

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Original Post

The LC+ smoke unit is actually working pretty well, produces a nice quantity of smoke.  I use a couple pairs of series diodes to slightly drop the voltage and I'm using the stock 16 ohm resistor, it actually tests out as a 17 ohm resistor.  The big sin is not keeping the smoke unit wet if you're using it, when they get dry, they get hot!

Well, if you have a clean slate, you can go either way, DCS or TMCC.  If the Odyssey board wasn't there, I could have put the MTH smoke unit in this one, all the DCS electronics goes in the tender for DCS upgrades.  For this upgrade, I had to work with the remaining space as I wasn't changing the control system.

Dennis, you'd need the full Cruise Commander if you remove everything.  You'll also need the RailSounds Commander if you want sound.

If you run TMCC and DCS, the DCS upgrade for steam ends up being cheaper than the TMCC if you want all the features of chuffing smoke, etc.  The DCS upgrade kit for $200 or so has all of that.  For TMCC, after you do the CC and RS Commander, you have to add the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator (or equivalent).  In either update possibility, you'll have to change out the mechanical for a fan driven unit if you want command controlled smoke and synchronized chuffing.

Dennis Holler posted:

So if all the electronics have been removed except the motor, would I still use the Cruise commander M?

Hey Dennis,

If you removed all of the electronics, and only have the wiring and motors, the cruise m is NOT for you. The Cruise M is a drop in replacement for engines already equipt with TMCC. You should look into the Cruise Commander and a matching sound board. Or a DC Commander if you don't want cruise but I wouldn't, go for the Cruise.

Edit: John beat me to the punch 😁😁

Daniel Gonzalez

Funny you should ask.  I just finished a K-Line Hudson, and I'm working on a K-Line K-4 now.  I use the MTH smoke unit, and for TMCC I change the resistors for one 20 ohm resistor.  I create a mount using 1/16" fiberglass sheet, it's quite strong.  I boost the stack up slightly with a large washer for spacing.  Here's the mod in pictures, note that I had to shave the post of the smoke unit for the screw head.

Obviously, for great looking smoke control, I recommend the Super-Chuffer, but I guess I'm kinda' prejudiced.

This is a PS/2 upgrade, but the mounting of the smoke unit is identical for TMCC or PS/2.  The great part about most of the scale K-Line with the mechanical smoke unit is the mount is the same for all of them.

K-Line Fan Driven Smoke N1K-Line Fan Driven Smoke N2K-Line Fan Driven Smoke N3K-Line Fan Driven Smoke N4K-Line Fan Driven Smoke N5

BTW, here's the Hudson I did on the rollers after sticking the boiler on, but I didn't have the pilot wheels on yet.  This was the TMCC upgrade with the same smoke unit and mounting technique.

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Thanks, it took several for me to work out the best scheme for K-Line stuff.  I done probably a dozen or so smoke upgrades, finally decided to make a few of the mounting plates so I didn't have to design them for each upgrade.

John, I have a lionel 6-28072 that had the old puffer smoke unit in it, I used a lioncheif fan smoke unit, I put a 27 ohm resistor in it ( the original was burnt up) I wired it to the original TMCC blue wire, and I used a MTH PS1 board to drive the fan (it was laying around) its powered directly to track power through a micro switch that is triggered from the original smoke piston lever...Its ok, but it lacks the oomph of what your super chuffers seem to do...question is, if I get a super chuffer II will that do away with my PS1 lever set up I have? I only get one chuff per rev, and getting the timing right was a real chore....thanks!...………………………..Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

harmonyards posted:

John, I have a lionel 6-28072 that had the old puffer smoke unit in it, I used a lioncheif fan smoke unit, I put a 27 ohm resistor in it ( the original was burnt up) I wired it to the original TMCC blue wire, and I used a MTH PS1 board to drive the fan (it was laying around) its powered directly to track power through a micro switch that is triggered from the original smoke piston lever...Its ok, but it lacks the oomph of what your super chuffers seem to do...question is, if I get a super chuffer II will that do away with my PS1 lever set up I have? I only get one chuff per rev, and getting the timing right was a real chore....thanks!...………………………..Pat

Hi,

If you want more prototypical cuffs, you would need the super chuffer II and a chuff generator which uses a tachometer strip on your flywheel instead otf the mechanical switch. He sells both and are actually designed to work together for the best results.

Hope this helps!

Daniel Gonzalez

Danial is correct.

 The Chuff-Generator allows for programmable chuffs/rev, and the Super-Chuffer manages the smoke fan and does Rule-17 lighting and automatic cab light control. Using the Chuff-Generator, there is another neat option, you can have automatic ground lights, they're on until you reach around 10 scale MPH, and then they go off. Obviously, all of the lighting features are optional, you don't have to use them if you don't want to.

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Alex M posted:

John 

When I get 2-8-0 s or Atlantics for upgrades , I  cringe  Lol 😂 

Alex 

Alex,

From the video you sent of my 3rd Rail PRR H6 2-8-0 you upgraded, it looks like you did a fantastic job installing the SCII in it. Can’t wait to pick it up at York.

Ron

 

TCA, TTOS, NCT, LCCA, PRRT&HS

 

Volunteers don't get paid, not because they are worthless, but because they are priceless!  Author Sherry Anderson

I was surprised that everything fit into the 2-8-0 shown.  I couldn't fit the MTH smoke unit in, but the LC+ smoke unit works pretty well, and it even left space for me to tuck the SC-II under it.

The 3rd Rail one should be easier, the electronics is all in the tender!  The Lionel one above had the motherboard, R2LC, and the Odyssey driver board already crammed in there!

Hay John,

I noticed that you put a Lion Chief Plus  Smoke Unit into the Consolidation. You may or may not remember that I discussed with you that I wanted to put a smoke unit into a Lionel Camelback # 771 and I believe you told me that you couldn't get one into the smoke box area, of one that you were doing, because there isn't enough room. Since you installed the aforementioned smoke unit, can you possibly give me the dimensions of it so I can check to see if it might fit into the camelback? By the way, great job on the consolidation. I've got a weak spot for the consolidation's, it is the locomotive that I became a fireman on at the New Hope & Ivyland Railroads #40.

Well, I can't give you the dimensions right now as I've already shipped that one, and I don't have the LC+ smoke unit on hand right now.

You can kinda' see roughly the dimensions from the picture, as I recall, it's right around 1" wide, 1.2" long, and roughly 1.2" tall.

The smoke unit we discussed was probably the full sized MTH unit, it's quite a bit larger than the LC+ model.  The MTH unit is my preferred choice as I get the best results with it, but it doesn't fit into many small steamers, the above Consolidation is a perfect example.

John J. Giuliano posted:

Hay John,

I noticed that you put a Lion Chief Plus  Smoke Unit into the Consolidation. You may or may not remember that I discussed with you that I wanted to put a smoke unit into a Lionel Camelback # 771 and I believe you told me that you couldn't get one into the smoke box area, of one that you were doing, because there isn't enough room. Since you installed the aforementioned smoke unit, can you possibly give me the dimensions of it so I can check to see if it might fit into the camelback? By the way, great job on the consolidation. I've got a weak spot for the consolidation's, it is the locomotive that I became a fireman on at the New Hope & Ivyland Railroads #40.

IMG_20180929_122211IMG_20180929_122208IMG_20180929_122204IMG_20180929_122152IMG_20180929_122316IMG_20180929_122254IMG_20180929_122242

Hi, I have one I'm going to use soon. Took these photos and I hope they help.

Included some of my daughters hands being extremely helpful while I did this.

Let me know if you need more.

Thanks!

Daniel Gonzalez

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I wasn't too far off, my height included the motor and terminals as you have to have space for those.

Good pictures, and I think that answers the dimension question.

Hay Daniel,

Thanks for the pics, it helps a lot. If I can impose on you for one more photo, I need also from the bottom of the motor, to the top of the PCB to check to see if there is enough depth for said unit. Again, Thanks for taking the time to do this for me. I just had to edit my topic and just realized that the motor & PCB are in the photos already. Sorry!

    Steam Forever

         John

       

CAPPilot posted:
Alex M posted:

John 

When I get 2-8-0 s or Atlantics for upgrades , I  cringe  Lol 😂 

Alex 

Alex,

From the video you sent of my 3rd Rail PRR H6 2-8-0 you upgraded, it looks like you did a fantastic job installing the SCII in it. Can’t wait to pick it up at York.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I was surprised that everything fit into the 2-8-0 shown.  I couldn't fit the MTH smoke unit in, but the LC+ smoke unit works pretty well, and it even left space for me to tuck the SC-II under it.

The 3rd Rail one should be easier, the electronics is all in the tender!  The Lionel one above had the motherboard, R2LC, and the Odyssey driver board already crammed in there!

John,

Your engine is a H9, while the one Alex did for me was a H6. The H6 was a smaller engine in real life, and 3rd Rail's H6 is definitely smaller than their H9/10.  I assumed the H6 would have also been a hard one to get everything I wanted in it (the works).  Alex had to wait until your SCII was available to get it all to work.  Bottom line is your SCII is a great product and allows upgrades to engines that previously could not get "the works".  

Ron

 

TCA, TTOS, NCT, LCCA, PRRT&HS

 

Volunteers don't get paid, not because they are worthless, but because they are priceless!  Author Sherry Anderson

Don’t you just love those forward mounted motors in those  Kline engines?  Gave me fits installing TAS turbo smoke units in my two Kline Berkshires long ago.   John, nice solution for mounting the smoke unit.  I’ll have to remember that one.

Gary, the MTH smoke unit is not quite as long as the TAS or Lionel rectangular smoke unit, so it fits in front of the motor with about 3/16" to spare.  It's tight getting the plate and screws in there, but with a little grinding, you can do it.

For the one I show, there was a big chunk of casting in the boiler that I had to totally grind out, there were a lot of diecast metal chips flying around!

John J. Giuliano posted:

Hay Daniel,

Thanks for the pics, it helps a lot. If I can impose on you for one more photo, I need also from the bottom of the motor, to the top of the PCB to check to see if there is enough depth for said unit. Again, Thanks for taking the time to do this for me. I just had to edit my topic and just realized that the motor & PCB are in the photos already. Sorry!

    Steam Forever

         John

       

Hey John,

I will take some tonight, haven't had a chance to touch the layout this weekend.

Just wanted to make sure you know I was not ignoring you.

Thanks!

Daniel Gonzalez

John,

you state you swap out the MTH resistors for a twenty ohm resistor.  Any reason for that value?  I know any lower and you will surpass the current rating of the triac on R2LC board.  You also don’t want it to low as the smoke unit will run to hot.

That value was determined experimentally.  I monitored the temperature of the smoke triac on the bench for about 15 minutes with various values, track voltage at 18 volts.  I picked the lowest value that kept the triac package temperature below 70C, it ran around 65C with the 20 ohm, but went up to around 80C with the 18 ohm.  That also keeps the power in the smoke unit in the 6-7W maximum range, which yields nice smoke, but I haven't had any issues with cooking them.  Obviously, if you run without fluid for any length of time, then you will likely cook something!

With the MTH units, you obviously remove the two 16 ohm resistors.  I put the 20 ohm resistor in the holes closest to the stack about 1/4" away from the PCB straight down.  I make sure it's well embedded in the wick material but not buried totally, the top must be exposed.

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