Help on reset of Atlas Engine with EOB.

 I have a few EOB engines. Not sure on this. I think they all exhibit this. Sort of a built in heavy momentum feature when running in 128 step mode.

 You could try running it in 32 step mode.

 Engine#, Direction, Aux1, Aux1,Aux1, you should hear the horn blow, press 1 and the horn should blow again. 

 When EOB first came on the market. It was designed to be able to run with the DCS remote. By pressing the Boost to speed up or the Brake to slow down. Each button push was one speed step. DCS early on didn't support TMCC for 128 speed steps. Just 32. A later release of software corrected the problem.

 I believe the reset Atlas mentions. Is sometimes the engine gets confused. The directional lighting sometimes doesn't match the direction the engines moving. Aux1 and pressing 0. Resets the engine in forward. 

Dave C is correct. That slow momentum is built in. I don't like that feature but we have to live with it or go with ERR products. 

Rod Miller

I have one EOB equipped engine, and still using a CAB-1 has the issue with the heavy momentum. It's a shame since it's a great engine, just doesn't get any track time because of that. 

Thanks,. I can live with it. It just makes it an issue when lashed up with one of my legacy CBQ GP35s. I had it set at 32 but did the same thing.  Tomorrow I will try it with one of my Odessy 1 GP30 units. It was one of those purchases where you pull the trigger quickly and without second thought. CBQ SD40 hardly ever show up on the bay. Kadee install will be next week once I can identify which screws are for the shell. 

Once again thanks

suzukovich posted:

Thanks,. I can live with it. It just makes it an issue when lashed up with one of my legacy CBQ GP35s. I had it set at 32 but did the same thing.  Tomorrow I will try it with one of my Odessy 1 GP30 units. It was one of those purchases where you pull the trigger quickly and without second thought. CBQ SD40 hardly ever show up on the bay. Kadee install will be next week once I can identify which screws are for the shell. 

 

Once again thanks

I hear that.

If it's GP30 '935' it won't work.

I only have a CBQ U30, and finding a match is so hard. 

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

suzukovich posted:

Thanks,. I can live with it. It just makes it an issue when lashed up with one of my legacy CBQ GP35s. I had it set at 32 but did the same thing.  Tomorrow I will try it with one of my Odessy 1 GP30 units. It was one of those purchases where you pull the trigger quickly and without second thought. CBQ SD40 hardly ever show up on the bay. Kadee install will be next week once I can identify which screws are for the shell. 

 

Once again thanks

I hear that.

 

If it's GP30 '935' it won't work.

I only have a CBQ U30, and finding a match is so hard. 

Wow small world. I have 2 LionelCBQ GP30s #945 and 947 and talk about hard to find. I also have CBQ/C&S U30C#981. In fact you will hate me , I actually had two. Used the other one for my CBQ U30B project when issues with signal and Odessy system became insurmountable. I like to get my hands on the GN unit another rare bird.

There are EOB adjustments, part of the information, usually provided when EOB, when it  was new. Done with a handheld Cab1 controller and first issue TMCC command base.

32 speed steps.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+1   A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 1.

128 speed steps.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+2  A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 2.

Cruise Off mode.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+3   A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 3.

Pre-Pulse.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+5+# (# can be any number 1 thru 8) A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1,  a coupler sound after 5, and after the #.  The scale is linear, meaning, 1 is the lowest setting and 8 is the highest setting. The lower the last digit, the slower the first speed step will be.

Background Pulse.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+4+# (# can be any number 01 thru 20) A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1, a coupler sound after 4, and after the #.  The scale is linear, 20 is the lowest setting and 01 is the highest setting.  The last digit is used to smooth-out the slow end performance and eliminate any jerking.

This information should be available as part of the permanent post section,  TMCC Legacy forum. Gun Runner John and others,  have done a very good job of supplying  most all available information that has accumulate over the years.

Foggy head remembers momentum adjustment, straight TMCC    Eng, ##, (L, M, or H), bottom of Cab1, under the small door, then hit Set.

I could be wrong and often. Mike CT

Mike CT

Good morning. To insure I am understanding this prepulse sets how slowly the engine starts out and would fix the issue?

Background pulse sets how fast the engine takes to get to desired speed and smooths out the jerking?

Momentum does what exactly. According to what I understand all it does is sets the effort level of the engine sound.

Doug

suzukovich posted:

Mike CT

Good morning. To insure I am understanding this prepulse sets how slowly the engine starts out and would fix the issue?

That would be were I would start.    Another option would be to turn the cruise off completely.

Background pulse sets how fast the engine takes to get to desired speed and smooths out the jerking? Yes 

 

Momentum does what exactly. According to what I understand all it does is sets the effort level of the engine sound. Older TMCC locomotives without any of the later cruise controls  can be adjusted using the Momentum keys.  I have done several Atlas SW9 as a consist.  If they were not playing well together, I would adjust each engine to the same momentum then re-create the consist.  Usually it worked better.   A lot of straight tmcc multiple engine set ups, usually depended on how well the units were a mechanical match, IMO.   TMCC momentum, from the Cab1 remote, appeared a lot like speed steps, it only applied (was noticeable), early start-up, movement. 

 

Doug

 

Mike 

I got some me time right now so I will go and try it. I get back with you. 

Thanks

Doug

Almost forgot. Do I need to set the engine on program when I do this?

suzukovich posted:

Almost forgot. Do I need to set the engine on program when I do this?

No   Best wishes with your project, off to church, will be back in a couple of hrs.

Mike CT

At one time I had 6 Atlas SD40's and I preferred running all of them in 128-speed step mode with my CAB-1L. Once I got LEGACY I ran them in TMCC mode (32-speed steps) with momentum set to "High" and they ran just as slow as they did in 128-speed step mode with a CAB-1L, which I liked. 

As mentioned above, you can adjust the EOB parameters to fine tune your engine. I've found that there is a lot of inconsistency with EOB engines and sometimes reassigning different values to the Chuff Rate, Pre-Pulse and Background Pulse was necessary for smoother running, especially at slow speeds. Some engines didn't require any adjustments at all and the factory default values sufficed.

Eventually, three were scrapped and used for parts because they were lousy runners and the other 3 worth keeping received full ERR upgrades. If you're serious about keeping this locomotive for the long haul then an ERR upgrade is the way to go. They run smoother and sound way better than they ever did with the TAS boards.

Now it's exhibiting the same issue as my Odessy one U30Cs time to pull the shell and check gear alignments between motors and trucks. Fun day ahead.

Mike CT posted:

There are EOB adjustments, part of the information, usually provided when EOB, when it  was new. Done with a handheld Cab1 controller and first issue TMCC command base.

32 speed steps.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+1   A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 1.

128 speed steps.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+2  A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 2.

Cruise Off mode.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+3   A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1 and after the 3.

Pre-Pulse.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+5+# (# can be any number 1 thru 8) A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1,  a coupler sound after 5, and after the #.  The scale is linear, meaning, 1 is the lowest setting and 8 is the highest setting. The lower the last digit, the slower the first speed step will be.

Background Pulse.  Eng+##+DIR+Aux1+Aux1+Aux1+4+# (# can be any number 01 thru 20) A horn will sound after the 3rd Aux1, a coupler sound after 4, and after the #.  The scale is linear, 20 is the lowest setting and 01 is the highest setting.  The last digit is used to smooth-out the slow end performance and eliminate any jerking.

This information should be available as part of the permanent post section,  TMCC Legacy forum. Gun Runner John and others,  have done a very good job of supplying  most all available information that has accumulate over the years.

 

Foggy head remembers momentum adjustment, straight TMCC    Eng, ##, (L, M, or H), bottom of Cab1, under the small door, then hit Set.

I could be wrong and often. Mike CT

 

Just to ad a wrench to the works, depending on what Firmware EOB you have  the Pre-Pulse and Background Pulse may have different setting ranges.  Like Mike posted you may have a choice of setting them from 1 to 20 for both, some may only have a 1 to 8 range for both  or a mix as Mike posted, even some won't have, one of the Pre-Pulse or Background Pulse won't be adjustable.  Sorry I forget which one it is.  As the EOB evolved and the motor whine was discovered, Mike Reagan went through many Firmware upgrades to try to correct the noise.  

If you try to adjust your EOB outside its adjustment range you won't hurt anything, it just won't change.

Like others have said, if the engine is worth it to you, convert to ERR cruise.

You might try looking in the TMCC/Legacy Reference Materials Forum. I believe I recall seeing some TAS/EOB manuals or documentation in there a while back, but didn't research it. I am not at all familiar with the TAS/EOB stuff, just thought the forum link might provide some additional help. 

rtr12 posted:

You might try looking in the TMCC/Legacy Reference Materials Forum. I believe I recall seeing some TAS/EOB manuals or documentation in there a while back, but didn't research it. I am not at all familiar with the TAS/EOB stuff, just thought the forum link might provide some additional help. 

I was in there. Couldn't find what I was looking for. Back to the garden now.  Thanks

I find that EOB engines don't typically play well in MU configurations with other types of electronics, they're OK when run alone.  I don't find the slow startup too objectionable, but I would like to be able to control it like the TMCC/Legacy momentum settings.  I only have a couple of EOB engines, I do prefer the ERR cruise operation.  If I need a slow start, I just don't crank the big red knob that fast.

Well so much for that I guess. I really thought I had seen a lot of TAS/EOB info in there (or somewhere anyway?), but the old memory just ain't what is used to be.

suzukovich posted:

rtr12 posted:

You might try looking in the TMCC/Legacy Reference Materials Forum. I believe I recall seeing some TAS/EOB manuals or documentation in there a while back, but didn't research it. I am not at all familiar with the TAS/EOB stuff, just thought the forum link might provide some additional help. 

I was in there. Couldn't find what I was looking for. Back to the garden now.  Thanks

How could you have missed them, it's a pretty large post!

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...98#38737272468876998

gunrunnerjohn posted:

suzukovich posted:

rtr12 posted:

You might try looking in the TMCC/Legacy Reference Materials Forum. I believe I recall seeing some TAS/EOB manuals or documentation in there a while back, but didn't research it. I am not at all familiar with the TAS/EOB stuff, just thought the forum link might provide some additional help. 

I was in there. Couldn't find what I was looking for. Back to the garden now.  Thanks

How could you have missed them, it's a pretty large post!

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...98#38737272468876998

I didn't see in the thread what I was looking for.  I go through it again but didn't see anything about fine tuning EOB.. Kind of funny I have 2 Atlas GPs that start out fine.  

The tuning instructions are in the installation manual.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I find that EOB engines don't typically play well in MU configurations with other types of electronics, they're OK when run alone.  I don't find the slow startup too objectionable, but I would like to be able to control it like the TMCC/Legacy momentum settings.  I only have a couple of EOB engines, I do prefer the ERR cruise operation.  If I need a slow start, I just don't crank the big red knob that fast.

Other then the slow start. It ran fine mu to the legacy GP35. What I did have to do was kill the power after the Mu was set in the DCS remote. When power returned all sounds and both the engines ran well together. On the other hand GP7/9s didn't play well with others.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The tuning instructions are in the installation manual.

OK I didn't look in that one since I wasn't installing. Dummy me.

Spent the morning trouble shooting and repairing.  John the installation manual was a great help. 

Pulled the shell yesterday and found the following.

No grease in the trucks, Rear motor The fly wheel had been pushed down to the extent that it was binding on the motor and touching the wires leading into the motor from the board . 

  Next was the fact that the flywheel literally pulled right off. I found this out while reinstalling the motor when realigning the worm gear. I started turning the fly wheel. As soon as I hit resistance the fly wheel turned but not the shaft. The fly Wheel also has a built in tach Tape.  This was a brand spanking new engine. 

The fix: Obviously greased the worm gear.

Put some epoxy in the hole of the flywheel and reattached insuring plenty of clearance from the motor and aligning it centered to the tach reader. then let it cure overnight.

Remounted the motor into the truck. When I tightened the screw that holds down the motor mount. All the way motors and wheels would not turn. Back off a half a turn wheels move. Issue worm gear not aligning with the gear in the truck.

The fix: I decided to look at the washer thing that the worm gear end sits in. I pulled it out and on a whim I reinstalled with the flat side up. Remounted the motor and tightened the screw and no issue. everything move freely. Now here is the weird part. The front truck washer thing was left in its original position with flat side down.  There were no issues with the truck assembly.

Reassmbled the engine and tested.

Set it at 128 step no jerking or binding at 1-5 SMPH forward and reverse.

Set it at 32  step some jerking(odessy Jerk) but not really noticeable.at 1-3

Ran the engine for half an hour in 32 no issues but still had the very slow start speeding up gradually to set speed of 9,  

Same for 128 no issues with slow start.

Engine seams happiest running at 128 Step. Ran for an hour pulling about 20lbs of rolling stock. No issues.

Next is to fine tune the EOB as soon as I can figure out where I put my CAB1. Hopefully by Thursday when Mario's kadee mounts arrive and are installed, I will have found my remote. Also at that time I will re mu with legacy GP35 to confirm both will operate smoother in 128 step. Otherwise there weren't any issues with the mu together and ran fine.   

Running Happy now with dummy MTH SD24.

  Running happy mued  with Legacy GP35 day of arrival before repairs.

EOB installation manual, a lot of information.  Operation instructions begin on page 32.  Initial testing page 28.