How do you support your upper level

Looks like you already have the upper layout supported by 2 x 4's, which should be sufficient, although I think I'd add a few more in different locations, including the corners of each upper section.

I would screw the 2 x 4's on to the main layout from the bottom up and then use 90 degree metal angle braces to secure the upper layout to the 2 X 4's. The 1/4" luan is a little thin to hold a screw, but I think you'd be OK using 3/4" long screws into the upper layout which will protrude into the foam, as well. The 2 X 4's will support the weight of the upper section and the screws are really only there to keep it from moving around.

To lift off an upper section, simply unscrew the braces, either where they go into the 2 X 4's or the upper section.

Unless you're planning on dancing on it, the support is sufficient.  What it appears to me is the actual deck that is being supported doesn't have the rigidity to remain flat and true.

I'd consider rebuilding the second level with 1/2" plywood and 1x4 sides and cross supports.

I like your back drop. The blue sky and great looking clouds. Did you do that yourself? How did you do the clouds?

RAY

Thank you gentlemen. The current 2x4s are temporary. I’m contemplating pvc pipes that can be more like columns. In the foreground on the lower level will be a 3 track station with a head house above; using the 30th station in Philadelphia as an example. That middle section John can be tightened down. Alas, no dancing on the upper level.

@Ray of sunshine posted:

I like your back drop. The blue sky and great looking clouds. Did you do that yourself? How did you do the clouds?

RAY

Ray, my 14 year old granddaughter, who has a natural artistic gift, did the clouds. We had stencils for a frame work but after she became comfortable with it then it was more freehand. We used some different shades of rattle cans. I just had to stand and watch. It was enjoyable watching her get into it.

Jay

I installed an upper level along three sides of my L-shaped 15x19 feet layout. I used standard 1x12--inch lumber stock supported by MTH Elevated Trestles placed approx. 18-inches apart and parallel to the two outer edges of the upper "platforms." The height of the trestles provided sufficient clearance for all the trains in my collection that run on the main level underneath the upper level.  I liked the look  of the trestles -- quite "railroady."

A photo is attached for reference.

Mike M.   LCCA 12394

My former layout I used 8" tall 1 inch diameter wooden dowels screwed into the 1st level ½" plywood with double ended furniture screws and glued the dowels to the plywood for extra strength and rigidity, for the second level I used ½" plywood cut out to follow the track, and screwed the plywood to the dowels with phillips head wood screws with a lock washer between the plywood and dowels where it didn't show. If you wanted to have the second level removable I would suggest cutting your dowels in half, drill out both centers about 2 inches deep with a ⅜" diameter drill bit, then glue a 3½" length ⅜" dowel into the bottom dowels, then sand the remainder of the exposed dowels so they slip in but don't stick into the top half of the dowels, and use quick disconnect connectors for your wiring to the second level. For your foam on your layout I would drill out your foam where you want your dowels with a 1" diameter Forstner bit or 1" hole saw so it doesn't destroy your foam like a regular spade drill bit would.

2by4's and plywood.

Scott Smith

Thank you gentlemen for the additional insights. One of my talented friends created this for me; it extends the 10’ length. We’ll use a piece of foam board to carve a stone wall upon to cover it fully.

I support my upper level in part using PVC pipe.  I run the wiring through the pipe.

That’s my plan as well Steve, thanks.

My upper level is 1/2 plywood, and due to the post locations, the plywood sagged. I added strips of 1/2 oak underneath to increase the rigidity. It worked.

@Mike M posted:

My upper level is 1/2 plywood, and due to the post locations, the plywood sagged. I added strips of 1/2 oak underneath to increase the rigidity. It worked.

I had a similar sagging issue and solved it similarly only I used scrap oak flooring.  I attached girder to the elevated roadbed sides.  The girder hides the oak, wiring and electronics mounted on the roadbed underside.

Steve, please post a picture because I would like to see how you have hidden your wiring and electronics.

Thanks,

Jay

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

Steve, please post a picture because I would like to see how you have hidden your wiring and electronics.

Thanks

This it what it looks like with some finishing touches on the trolley route.

Upper level city scene supported on PVC pipes painted black shown in the above video.

If you use the L-Girder construction technique as described by Linn Westcott in his book "Model Railroad Benchwork" supporting your upper levels or grades is a piece of cake. 1x4 lumber and 1/2 inch plywood work fine. You can find Linn's book on Amazon. It's a classic.

@triplex posted:

If you use the L-Girder construction technique as described by Linn Westcott in his book "Model Railroad Benchwork" supporting your upper levels or grades is a piece of cake. 1x4 lumber and 1/2 inch plywood work fine. You can find Linn's book on Amazon. It's a classic.

I agree!  Some photos of L-girder.  Quick, easy, & adjustable

A few additional photos…

I used different sizes and pieces of oak to fill in as needed. I used 1/2” oak to keep the profile low. I will likely run power below by routering a slot in the oak. I haven’t decided how to dress up the edges yet, but will likely look like the mock-up in the second picture.

Here is what L girder construction looks like after 37 years.

Jay, it looks like a lot of folks have sent some great examples!  I think you have seen some of mine, but I will look up some specific photographs to post here.

@shorling posted:

Upper level city scene supported on PVC pipes painted black shown in the above video.

Steve, thank you so much for taking the time to share the images of your amazing layout; wow. That is a very appealing looking undertaking. You have great detail and I even spotted Superman monitoring Metropolis. Who is the manufacturer of your buildings?Thank you very much. You’ve provided good insights and additional ideas.

Jay

MikeM, thank you. That oak has a furniture like finish. Very impressive. Triplex, that’s some durable infrastructure, thank you for sharing. Mark, like so many of us, I have followed your progress. I would always appreciate your insights. Thank you.

Jay

Jay, here is mine.  There is nothing special here.  As a former supervisor long ago used to say, ‘quick and dirty’ installation.  With simple hand tools I just cut old 2x4s to length and slid them in, drilling holes, and driving screws where needed.  With both ends of some roadbed supported, I didn’t bother measuring for grades, I just slid the 2x4 to the right place for level or the grade I wanted, clamped, and started drilling.  It works better for me, since I can measure 4 times and still cut wrong.  The places that have them spaced closer are places I used thinner wood for the roadbed.  There are some places I used a shim so I could use up a piece that was a bit too short.  Pretty unscientific!

I don't have an "upper level" as such, but long after the track on my main layout had been laid down, I decided to add an elevated line. Since I had decidedly limited real estate available to add supports, I settled on smallish hardwood dowels, spanned by three-quarter-inch-wide strips of softwood ripped from dimension lumber. I hot-glued the strips between the vertical supports, and painted everything a grayish concrete color. I then attached the track to eighth-inch thick hardboard, with splines of the same material vertically hot-glued under the hardboard between the supports for rigidity, and added a narrow hardboard rail around the outside of the curves:

After testing (as shown above), I've only used the el to run trolleys and other light-weight rolling stock. When on a whim I tried to run my newly-acquired GG-1 on the track (all my other tracks at the time had clearance issues!), the nearest supports promptly came unglued, letting the track sag! So, I can't recommend my el design for heavy consists, but if you don't have room for beefier supports and can run light-weight consists, it might be worthy of your consideration! Good luck!

Thank you Mark and I subscribe to applying the SWAG theory in such situations.

SteveTyler, if you can’t wide go up. I think your track looks great, thanks.

Jay

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

SteveTyler, if you can’t wide go up. I think your track looks great, thanks.

Thanks! Among other benefits, it's given me a chance to add a few more scenes without having to cover or replace already developed real estate:

With your talents Steve, you need a larger layout.

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

With your talents Steve, you need a larger layout.

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, THRR, but the size of my basement, basic physics and (especially!) my wife (otherwise known as "SWMBO"!) would beg to differ!

Steve, I agree with Jay THRR.  However I understand about small spaces.  I could have expanded, but one daughter had stuff in the larger basement room, but finally moved it out this summer.  I’m thinking about making a regular workbench there instead of my rolling cart and layout edge.  👍🏻

You can make a case for further development of your neuronal networks and precluding dementia from creeping in. You would be doing it for reasons of your health.

Jay

That’s a great point, Jay!!

I used 2x2 porch balusters painted gray, 3/8 plywood painted black for the roadbed, and galvanized corner bead (from HD paint/plaster dept) that looks like truss work [WWWWWW] along the roadbed edge. This looks like city elevated train line structure. To deaden the sound I used gray carpeting under the tracks as ballast. The remaining width painted black was for a tarred road on the ramp up to the upper grade.

There is also metal edging that looks like chain-link fence available at Home Depot.

Paul Goodness

Thank you Paul. Using the balusters is great idea; hadn’t thought of that.

Jay

Paul, I hadn’t thought of it as well.  Your total build sounds well though out and would look great!!

Great thread,

I am learning a lot.

Thanks,

John

Paul, can you post some photos please?

Jay

I am sorry but I do not know how to post photos. Also, part of my basement layout has been taken down because it was in the way of a major replacement and upgrade to my electrical service. I built the layout all around the 4 basement walls. Proves once again, it is a bad idea to block access to electrical panels, water heaters and meters, and furnaces. Now that I opened up a pathway to these utilities, I must redesign about 1/2 of my layout. Right now it looks like a bomb hit it. It is embarrassing. Good thing my living room layout is together (but dusty). Maybe this winter I can deal with all this.

Thank you for your interest in my ideas.

Paul Goodness

Paul, I am sorry you had to dismantle part of your layout, but maybe your experience will help someone else who is thinking of building a layout and will keep access in mind.  It is an easy mistake to make, and while I haven’t done that, readers of my posts over the years will recall other mistakes I have made.  That is one of the values of this forum, tell others what worked for us but also what didn’t work.   I hope you will come up with an even better design for your rebuild!!