Last week Norm Buckhart posted pix of the start of the 1937 AAR box cars starting out with GN wood sheathed and plywood cars.
After the last Strasburg meet Rich Yoder firmed up his intention to do a series of Mather cars.
AND I just got lucky and scored a WA Drake 3 dome tank car off of fleabay for some very reasonable coinage.
Great time to be in O scale brass!!! 
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Robbie
score on the drake. I dropped out on that and the reefer. Pricing is very inconsistent -- I watched a carworks hh go for $780 two weeks later, one bid at $404...
yoderer smack series is going to be very keen. The Kennedy doors have never been done and guys will kick themselves for not ordering. Only 20 made.
The Mather cars will also fill a void--- we still need more O/B boxcars....
I would like to see (and purchase) the Erie/Susquehanna horizontal ribbed hoppers but Rich won't even put out a signup sheet to determine interest. Is there any interest in this car in brass?
Ed
Brad, you're right. The prices for brass are all over the map. I control myself and stick to things in my price range as not to jack up the prices and force domestic buyers out of the market.
Erik, Would be nice to have some steam era highway trailers in real 1:48 I have to agree...
And yes Ed, I love the horizontal rib hopper car. I have the Overland one in HO. According to Rich the problem with hopper cars is that you need to have both the outside and inside of the car detailed which runs up the cost real quick... and the trend is to cars that have many different versions to increase the "play value" thus the limited interest in the Erie/Susie Q hopper. Sadly when Rich did the fishbelly hoppers years ago no one suggested the uber-neat Reading WWII era composite versions. These cars were the nutz and stood out well into the diesel era.
The fact that Rich and Norm (and to an extent George Kohs) is keeping the brass car market going means there is still some life left in sales of upper end cars.
As for me I'd love to see some common but never done cars like FGEX wood reefers, USRA hoppers and UTLX X3 tank cars... AND some 36 foot box cars like Fowlers and Southern SU cars.
On that line, anyone up for Canadian NSC end versions of the 1937 box car? These things really stand out! 
Brass is definitely a wild-card. I picked up two brass hoppers for about $250 shipped a couple of years ago. Saw one of them going for $275 on eBay -- more than I want to pay, but it was a really nice car. Got a brass ATSF drover car for $175, but have seen it as high as $350 (seller didn't sell it and hasn't re-listed it). Go figure.
I do like the detail and weight of brass cars and will grab them if they match what I'm looking for and are in the budget -- pretty much what I do with the other stuff I buy.
Paging through so many categories on the auction site, I gave up looking at brass cars,
but have been lucky in finding Bobbye Hall's few O scale brass cabooses in estate
sales, O scale shows(not lately!), etc. Too bad she didn't make all the HO versions
she did, in O. With an occasional look at O brass, all over the map seems to pretty well describe its pricing. Cabooses is about all I look at there, as plastic for them seems to demand repetition of the very few.
It's hard to look at brass cabooses with Brother Love making such nice ones in plastic!!!
It does make me pine for the olden days when PSC was cranking out brass cars and cabooses on a regular basis.
Just think if Pat O'Boyle was still alive how the O brass car market would be with Pat, Rich, Norm and George Kohs !
Hmmm maybe we can get GPM to take some interest in a freight car project. WFEX/FGEX 6xxxx series truss rod reefers anyone? (we need the bigears emoticon here)
I pickup brass freight cars from time to time. So far all have been for the home road. Some of the things I want, don't show up that often and when they do, they can easily go past my comfort zone.
Tank cars are an area of interest for me, not road names but types.
The best thing I've come across in the past few years are the Rich Yoder Santa Fe box and stock cars. Nicely priced and excellent models.
I rather not have to bid on an item, it's always frustrating when you're barely outbid.
Marker,
rich made great models with his atsf project. You should contact him on the acl cars as a few are left. Gary Schroeder weathered his atsf and did a masterful job. I will ask him if I can re post his images
It's hard to look at brass cabooses with Brother Love making such nice ones in plastic!!!
It does make me pine for the olden days when PSC was cranking out brass cars and cabooses on a regular basis.
Just think if Pat O'Boyle was still alive how the O brass car market would be with Pat, Rich, Norm and George Kohs !
Hmmm maybe we can get GPM to take some interest in a freight car project. WFEX/FGEX 6xxxx series truss rod reefers anyone? (we need the bigears emoticon here)
Erik,
what are you and jack going to make? I would participate in the fgex, erie horizontal hopper and the utlx tank cars... I don't really need more engines.
You should contact him on the acl cars as a few are left. Gary Schroeder weathered his atsf and did a masterful job. I will ask him if I can re post his images.
Brad - I would be grateful if to see Gary's weathering. I lost touch a couple of years ago when he was having internet problems. Love his work.
Rich picks some very interesting cars to produce, and a nice guy. The ACL ventilated cars are a good example of something I am curious about. It's a nice, unique car, but would it have been found on a freight train in the Colorado/New Mexico area? That's always a question I ask when I buy a brass freight car.
We have to think of things in O scale that have never been done but are neat and unique.
Problem is that most people funding the projects are hesitant to do in brass what's already done in plastic even when the plastic versions are mediocre.
Or things that are all boring black like the common UTLX X3 tank cars.
George Kohs mentioned PFE reefers for a future project. PRB did SFRD cars. Would be nice if we could get some FGEX cars next.
Maybe you could put a bug in Jimmy's ear that the WFEX/FGEX truss rod reefers were some of the last truss rod cars running and there's pictures of them with AB brakes.
Marker,
shoot me an email. I will send you the mail from Gary . I believe many of the boxcars could have traveled west. I believe rich has a shot of an acl in la.
You should contact him on the acl cars as a few are left. Gary Schroeder weathered his atsf and did a masterful job. I will ask him if I can re post his images.
Brad - I would be grateful if to see Gary's weathering. I lost touch a couple of years ago when he was having internet problems. Love his work.
Rich picks some very interesting cars to produce, and a nice guy. The ACL ventilated cars are a good example of something I am curious about. It's a nice, unique car, but would it have been found on a freight train in the Colorado/New Mexico area? That's always a question I ask when I buy a brass freight car.
I don't know of any western roads with "watermelon" cars so I would suspect by this that when these cars were in vogue most of the melons grown in the US were grown in the south.
Once again I'm not an expert but I would suspect that ventiator service for melons would happen if shipped to the midwest or southwest during the warm fall and summer seasons when the ambient temps in the car could rise.
Okay, I might sound really stupid here but let me just throw it out there. Even though I do World War 2 era, I would like to have some nice double stack auto loader cars that could fit nice 1/43rd scale diecast cars. Not the Walmart junk, but the nice stuff. I know I know, the 1/43rd is out of scale, 10% to big if I understand the math, but hey that is all there is. I would like to have a few auto loaders with cool 1960s muscle cars or Trans-Am and Can-Am cars loaded on them thereby combining multiple hobbies. I don't know if they would fit on true 1/48 scale rail cars but maybe, just maybe, they could be made slightly oversize to accept 1/43rd scale cars?
I have never seen these cars, although admittedly I have never really looked hard.
(let the tomato throwing begin)
Erik,
I would be in for six Erie and four Susquehanna horizontal rib hoppers... Ed and Robbie, will you two take ten apiece? Erik, lets see some budgetary pricing with them painted and weathered... What trucks would they have?
thx
At 100 we'd be talking something with multiple versions and that would encompass things done generically in plastic.
Like USRA single sheathed cars in tons of modernized variations (AB brakes, upgraded roofs, etc)?
Or 1923 AAR cars (the pre-1932 X29 and clones). Between 3 of us PRR guys we would probably buy at least 40 PRR X29s plus another dozen clones if done in by Boo Rim. They'd have to be with the different side sheathing patterns used, etc, tho.
All of the X3 tanks might meet the 100 for all variations requirements too.
Can't speak for FGEX/WFEX cars but Bill Welch is the expert and hopefully his book comes out soon.
I'm enjoying this O scale brass thread. I used to collect brass HO locomotives several decades ago; a collection long sold. I'm restarting in the hobby, in O scale, and have perused several websites selling O cars and locomotives.
Could forum members list some preferred vendors/importers? I realize this will take much research on my part but I'd like to start out on the right track. Thanks.
Tank you...tank you very much.
I'm enjoying this O scale brass thread. I used to collect brass HO locomotives several decades ago; a collection long sold. I'm restarting in the hobby, in O scale, and have perused several websites selling O cars and locomotives.
Could forum members list some preferred vendors/importers? I realize this will take much research on my part but I'd like to start out on the right track. Thanks.
Well, lets give it a start.
Since you met Rich Yoder this past Strasburg show we can say his cars are top notch. ACF watermelon cars should be delivering soon and Mather cars are next up.
Norm Buckhart's Protocraft cars are also top notch, being built by Boo Rim who is one of the premier builders.
Kohs cars are astronomically priced but almost museum quality. Hard to find and high priced but if you find a fave go for it!
Pacific Limited cars, whicn were imported by the late Pat O'Boyle, also command premium prices. Some are very unique cars and they are generally very accurate (tho I don't think the much-revered 1932 ARA car is his best effort). His "older" cars, the single and double sheathed cars are fantastic cars but they were only done in "as built" form which limits their use. All in all some very desirable models and VERY well researched.
Steve Grabowski's Keystone Model Works PRR gondola and hopper cars are also awesome cars and usually fetch a premium price. He has some models in stock yet.
The "older" imports are Precision Scale. Some are really good and some are older and lesser quality but still unique. Pretty much variety in price depending on the car and the rarity/demand. PSC did LOTS Of cars over the years.
Other smaller imports are the HobbyHill brass ACF wood reefer and two types of tank cars. A tad more less often seen and sometimes premium priced. The WA Drake tank cars are also nice models and they command a premium when seen. And Division Point imported cabeese and SP/UP GS gondolas.
Let's see, we also have some other miscellaneous cars that are seen occasionally such as the Hallmark/I&I B&O wagontop hoppers, Hallmark PRR gondolas or some of the Overland models. Nice models that are occasionally seeen.
The oldest "vintage" commonly seen are Max Gray cars. Less details than the more modern cars and often bargain prices but very sturdy construction.
Enough info for a quick start?
Rule 292's overview hits the mark. I'd add US Hobbies in with Max Gray as they were done by the same builder. NJ Custom Brass and Alco Models also did a few cars I'd put in the same class as PSC. For PRR cabin cars add Weaver's N5c and the Nd, Nda from Car Works.
We should also add to the list the custom built (in the US) Bob Parri brass cars.
Ed Rappe
Well, lets give it a start.
Since you met Rich Yoder this past Strasburg show we can say his cars are top notch. ACF watermelon cars should be delivering soon and Mather cars are next up.
Norm Buckhart's Protocraft cars are also top notch, being built by Boo Rim who is one of the premier builders.
Kohs cars are astronomically priced but almost museum quality. Hard to find and high priced but if you find a fave go for it!
Pacific Limited cars, whicn were imported by the late Pat O'Boyle, also command premium prices. Some are very unique cars and they are generally very accurate (tho I don't think the much-revered 1932 ARA car is his best effort). His "older" cars, the single and double sheathed cars are fantastic cars but they were only done in "as built" form which limits their use. All in all some very desirable models and VERY well researched.
Steve Grabowski's Keystone Model Works PRR gondola and hopper cars are also awesome cars and usually fetch a premium price. He has some models in stock yet.
The "older" imports are Precision Scale. Some are really good and some are older and lesser quality but still unique. Pretty much variety in price depending on the car and the rarity/demand. PSC did LOTS Of cars over the years.
Other smaller imports are the HobbyHill brass ACF wood reefer and two types of tank cars. A tad more less often seen and sometimes premium priced. The WA Drake tank cars are also nice models and they command a premium when seen. And Division Point imported cabeese and SP/UP GS gondolas.
Let's see, we also have some other miscellaneous cars that are seen occasionally such as the Hallmark/I&I B&O wagontop hoppers, Hallmark PRR gondolas or some of the Overland models. Nice models that are occasionally seeen.
The oldest "vintage" commonly seen are Max Gray cars. Less details than the more modern cars and often bargain prices but very sturdy construction.
Enough info for a quick start?
Rule 292's overview hits the mark. I'd add US Hobbies in with Max Gray as they were done by the same builder. NJ Custom Brass and Alco Models also did a few cars I'd put in the same class as PSC. For PRR cabin cars add Weaver's N5c and the Nd, Nda from Car Works.
We should also add to the list the custom built (in the US) Bob Parri brass cars.
Ed Rappe
Bob Parri cars are handmade classics.
Almost forgot Pecos River Brass (PRB). Great Santa Fe reefers, stock cars and gons and some of the very few modern era (along with Overland) modern brass cars. Pricey stuff when you can find it but nice quality.
Also nice are The Car Works PRR flat cars and container cars, cabins and trolleys. Also niccely detailed quality stuff.
Anything else we forgot?
Rob
Glad you remembered PRB's Santa Fe's reefers - they model the very unusual ATSF door and ice hatch details. I especially like the "wrong way" hatch covers that open to the center of the car.
Here are a few more:
Steve Grabowski custom built (in the US) PRR N5c cabin cars and X29 box cars. One of his X29's is listed on eBay today. They were very nicely built.
Sunset imported PRR TM8 tank cars and N5 cabin cars in the 1980's. More recently under the 3rd Rail brand Sunset imported war emergency and B&O round roof box cars, B&O round roof covered hoppers, a chlorine cylinder flat car, an offset side twin hopper, and several cabeese. With the exception of the cabin cars I find the 3rd Rail freight cars to be on the "cluncky" side. The absence of one of the prominent ribs on the B&O round roof box car goes down as one of the classic freight car model screw ups. If you want a brass B&O round roof box car go for Overland's or Hallmark's. From a value perspective I prefer Weaver's plastic model.
Westside imported models of a 4 truck flat car and a heavy 200T wreck crane.
And on the very bottom of my brass quality and accuracy rating list, the cars (and a few locomotives) imported in the 1950's by International Model Products.
I'd bet there are a couple we've still overlooked.
Ed Rappe
Since you met Rich Yoder this past Strasburg show we can say his cars are top notch. ACF watermelon cars should be delivering soon and Mather cars are next up.
Norm Buckhart's Protocraft cars are also top notch, being built by Boo Rim who is one of the premier builders.
Kohs cars are astronomically priced but almost museum quality. Hard to find and high priced but if you find a fave go for it!
Pacific Limited cars, whicn were imported by the late Pat O'Boyle, also command premium prices. Some are very unique cars and they are generally very accurate (tho I don't think the much-revered 1932 ARA car is his best effort). His "older" cars, the single and double sheathed cars are fantastic cars but they were only done in "as built" form which limits their use. All in all some very desirable models and VERY well researched.
Steve Grabowski's Keystone Model Works PRR gondola and hopper cars are also awesome cars and usually fetch a premium price. He has some models in stock yet.
The "older" imports are Precision Scale. Some are really good and some are older and lesser quality but still unique. Pretty much variety in price depending on the car and the rarity/demand. PSC did LOTS Of cars over the years.
Other smaller imports are the HobbyHill brass ACF wood reefer and two types of tank cars. A tad more less often seen and sometimes premium priced. The WA Drake tank cars are also nice models and they command a premium when seen. And Division Point imported cabeese and SP/UP GS gondolas.
Let's see, we also have some other miscellaneous cars that are seen occasionally such as the Hallmark/I&I B&O wagontop hoppers, Hallmark PRR gondolas or some of the Overland models. Nice models that are occasionally seeen.
The oldest "vintage" commonly seen are Max Gray cars. Less details than the more modern cars and often bargain prices but very sturdy construction.
Enough info for a quick start?
Rule 292's overview hits the mark. I'd add US Hobbies in with Max Gray as they were done by the same builder. NJ Custom Brass and Alco Models also did a few cars I'd put in the same class as PSC. For PRR cabin cars add Weaver's N5c and the Nd, Nda from Car Works.
We should also add to the list the custom built (in the US) Bob Parri brass cars.
Ed Rappe
Rob
Glad you remembered PRB's Santa Fe's reefers - they model the very unusual ATSF door and ice hatch details. I especially like the "wrong way" hatch covers that open to the center of the car.
Here are a few more:
Steve Grabowski custom built (in the US) PRR N5c cabin cars and X29 box cars. One of his X29's is listed on eBay today. They were very nicely built.
Sunset imported PRR TM8 tank cars and N5 cabin cars in the 1980's. More recently under the 3rd Rail brand Sunset imported war emergency and B&O round roof box cars, B&O round roof covered hoppers, a chlorine cylinder flat car, an offset side twin hopper, and several cabeese. With the exception of the cabin cars I find the 3rd Rail freight cars to be on the "cluncky" side. The absence of one of the prominent ribs on the B&O round roof box car goes down as one of the classic freight car model screw ups. If you want a brass B&O round roof box car go for Overland's or Hallmark's. From a value perspective I prefer Weaver's plastic model.
Westside imported models of a 4 truck flat car and a heavy 200T wreck crane.
And on the very bottom of my brass quality and accuracy rating list, the cars (and a few locomotives) imported in the 1950's by International Model Products.
I'd bet there are a couple we've still overlooked.
Ed Rappe
Yep, forgot about the Westside F-200 flat car, a gorgeous and often-low priced model albeit with "Bettendorf double truck" lettering on the sideframes.
I forgot the New Jersey Custom Brass "NJ Custom Trash" cars. Unfortunately, as low quality as they are, they are the only PRR X31/X31b and Milwaukee Road Horizontal Rib Side box cars available in brass.
Also noteworthy are any of the On3 UTLX "Gramps" tank cars such as PFM. Sweeties and relatively easy to make into standard gauge cars. I'm blessed to have one from the collection of the late Stan Windrim of "Whew, I needed a few scotches on the rocks after trying to assemble the plastic springs into those San Juan trucks" fame. 
Car & Locomotive Shop: the finest Trainmasters and RS-11/12 ever made!
Berlyn Locomotive Works 20 ton gantry crane [a working model!]
Oriental Limited: NW-2, SW-1,7/8 & 9 diesels and a smattering of freight cars.
their diesels are very nice models with good drives. I have all of those listed and am pleased
NJ Custom Brass Rib side boxcars [not perhaps the best brass model, but an interesting sight on the layout]
I'm enjoying the education. I truly appreciate those taking the time to post.
Erick
Talking passengers - you da man! Recommend you kick off a fresh thread.
Ed Rappe
Talking passengers - you da man! Recommend you kick off a fresh thread.
Excellent idea, for me there is a lot to learn. O scale passenger cars over the years have immense refinements. Trucks, modeling accuracy, interiors, have all changed. Erik has posted pictures in the past of passenger equipment of which I had never seen.
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One of the significant things I'm learning is what to expect when buying older rolling stock. It's a huge education to someone that has not spent a lot of time in scale.
I need to go to meets, but it's very hard for me.
Outstanding, most appreciated and huge Thank You guys! This is a great education!!
I had started buying brass O in the 90's as more of a collector with no designes on running and purchased a few of the PRB cars. At the prices of $300+ per car I may have got 1 a year. They were special in that the fineness of the detail work was a hit over any plastic at that time or even now. But they sit boxed in a closet never to be run now that Atlas entered the market with very presentable cars at a far cheaper price range. I may get an itch to sell the three I have as they are like jewelery sitting in the jewel box just waiting to look good making an appearence. It is like a hoarder and just knowing one has the product is fulfilling. I have collect more big UP engines in brass than I have in brass cars.That is funny in a way as one would think one engine and many cars. Guess I should have done an engine facility to diplay all of them .
Phil
Phil
Phil,
email me with what you might want to sell...
I would like to see (and purchase) the Erie/Susquehanna horizontal ribbed hoppers but Rich won't even put out a signup sheet to determine interest. Is there any interest in this car in brass?
Ed
Ed,
I have been down the same road. I don't understand why Importers are so reluctant to list suggestions. Put the thing on the website for 6 months or so and see what happens. If there are few or no responses, eliminate it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
My other pet peeve is not redoing a project. If the demand is there, WHY NOT? It's done all the time with locomotives, so why not cars?
Simon
Is it possible that these importers do things with profit in mind? Maybe a re-run is not in the cards if they lost $ the first time around?
If there is profit in high-dollar freight cars, and the big-name importers are ignoring the potential, then it is an opportunity! Bill Davis did it for trucks - Rich Yoder seems to be having fun with his pet projects. Plenty of room for another supplier?
As for a brass education, there was a brass book once published, I think I once talked
to the writer/publisher? at a show, (Brown Book?). but I understood there was little
or no "O" in it. This is the kind of history that gets/got written up in RMC and NG&SLG, but is not all in one place. And I have no idea who could put one together,
but wish somebody would.... I was looking for this info years ago, to see what cabooses might have been produced in brass. Of course, it would be out of date
as soon as published, but you'd have a baseline.
Sorry Brad, I can't find your E mail. i click on the star and little points to an E mail. tried a tweet, nada. Ieven have trouble to post tothe sight pictures and wish I could.
I have a white trinity tank car #60000 model 4461P. GATX, 40' airside 4631 U.P.and lastly a greenville box 60'DD painted DTI Md. # 4133 A car number 25034. I believe these have been on my shelf for close to 15 yrs about the time Atlas started producing it master line.
Phil.
Heck, I am lazy, I just went to the computer and looked up the numbers
http://www.brasstrains.com/Cla...-Dome-Tank-Car-60000
Can't find anything on the other 2 cars but found this nice refer FS
Is it possible that these importers do things with profit in mind? Maybe a re-run is not in the cards if they lost $ the first time around?
Obviously, I don't expect someone to rerun a loser. If you go to the Importer's website and look at past projects, most, if not all, say "sold out".
I think one of the flies in the ointment might be that a second run would probably require higher retail prices per unit to be successful, and some folks might balk at that idea. As in: "Why can't they cost the same as the first ones?" (Spoken in a petulant tone.)
I have also heard, the Importer does not want to offend the collector element, which in my opinion is hogwash.
Simon
As for a brass education, there was a brass book once published, I think I once talked
to the writer/publisher? at a show, (Brown Book?). but I understood there was little
as soon as published, but you'd have a baseline.
Correct. It was indeed the Brown book, and the bulk of it was HO (makes sense, since there is way more of that than "O").
In my opinion, it would be a monumental task to compile a remotely accurate documentation of what is out there, and you would need the cooperation of those that Imported the stuff, and some of those folks are no longer with us.
If you attend all the shows you can, lurk around on the Net, and watch Evilbay diligently, you will slowly start to get an idea of what is out there.
I always figured if you can't find what you want for sale somewhere, it doesn't do you a whole h*ll of a lot of good just knowing it exists.
Simon
Start with that neat set of books that Bill Davis sells. Those are the earliest, and they are well documented.
I'd like to add to the discussion of cars it would be good to see in O-scale. As far as I know, the PRR X25 boxcar has never been done in O-scale. Between 1914 and 1919 PRR built over 11,000 X25's and X25A's(double-door); as late as 1947, there were still 9,161 X25's and 1,950 X25A's on the roster. So it was a prevalent car in the US car fleet; thus also good for non-PRR modelers.
The X25 was PRR's first steel box car; it was a bit taller than the later X29; it had end sills and a fishbelly centersill; and the doors opened to the left - very distinctive.
There was an article on these classes by Ted Culotta that appeared in #22 of the PRRT&HS "The Keystone Modeler" and issue 1 of Prototype Railroad Modeling.
What books on what subject "that Bill Davis sells"? I am looking at an excellent
Ted Hikel thread of the history of Mountain and Mohawk locos now running on the forum which seems to capture and exceed, by including prototype info, what I would
like to see for O brass including cabooses. If done for locos, why not for cabooses?
Somebody has this info squirreled away, or knows the sources from which they could
compile it.
Boy would a run of x25's be swell. The welded door variant especially
Boy would a run of x25's be swell. The welded door variant especially
I would love to see a run of x25 cars; this was the "lost car" that Pat O'Boyle was to do before he had problems with (WBM?) and then health issues.
Even more significant would be a run of X29's of every variant and with patch panels. Between 10 of us an entire run of 100 cars could be pre-ordered.
Those were the most common steam era boxcars in the US after the NYC variants.
We usually hear the "100 car" number bantied around. Even though the market is saturated with plastic and gerneric X29's I would venture to say that an accurate run of X29 and variants (including close ARA 1923 "cousins") would easily sell 100 cars.
I would love to know the price spread for 50 versus 75 versus 100 since some cars like the Erie horizontal rib hopper have limited numbers on most steam roads. A run of 50 might sell well but 100 might be a challenge unless it were a Kohs-like museum piece.
The only issue with the X25 is that it uses the X23's "fishbelly" underframe which might make for complexity and additional cost.
Maybe we need to review the Culotta Essential Freight Cars series and look at common cars that have never been done accurately. 
Boy would a run of x25's be swell. The welded door variant especially
If you really want to see them, you could fire off an E-mail to Rich Yoder (nudge, nudge). Worst case is you get a "Go Fish!" in response. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Simon
Or maybe Norm Buckhart at Protocraft
Start with that neat set of books that Bill Davis sells. Those are the earliest, and they are well documented.
Do you mean the Max Gray spotting Guides?
I think at least in the beginning brass importers made many models that they wanted to own too. It seems to me that OMI produced a bunch of UP models to my pleasure. Trying to get a importer to do research, dyes, and seek production with many trips abroad is asking a lot for a 100 car run and wanting to pay some $300+ I would think by now a brass model would be asking about 400-500. each meaning a total investment of $40,000. Seems like a lot of work for such a return as most stores who stocked the models only had a 30% markup. Sometimes I think postage was more than the profit on getting these models.
Phil
Boy would a run of x25's be swell. The welded door variant especially
If you really want to see them, you could fire off an E-mail to Rich Yoder (nudge, nudge). Worst case is you get a "Go Fish!" in response. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Simon
Or maybe Norm Buckhart at Protocraft
Unfortunately both are in the middle of big projects, Norm with the 1937 car and Rich with the O-17 Watermelon cars and then the Mather cars.
The market might be limited for another boring PRR steel box car... but I still suspect there are enough hard core brass buyers that a dead accurate model with versions not done in plastic or brass may be a big seller.
I suspect that Pat O'Boyle was interested in X25 cars since he already had the underframe from the X23 and R7 done... unfortunately the project never made it to fruition.
I would prefer to see x25's done before another attempt at x29's. That being said, I believe the Erie hopper car project being discussed would also be a swell project.
Brad
Do you brasser's run these cars, for display or use for personal mod's and alterations?
Do you brasser's run these cars, for display or use for personal mod's and alterations?
I haven't turned a wheel in probably 30 years on a model RR! But someday I hope to add to the "has a P:48 layout" crowd.
I plan on running them all and I buy things that fit my era and locale.
Brad has Pacific Limited X23 PRR cars he would like one just like the one at Parksley at the Eastern Shores RR museum.
Robbie---you are tough! I run my cars; busy decaling and painting a slew of models including a personal fav: the Overland Palace Poultry car! I'm partial to wood boxcars and hope to find an importer to do the XM varients... of course the x25 is also a great model to pursue.
I have about 8 psc x29 that I have painted and decaled for the roads that operated them: CNJ, Maine Central, B&O, PRR etc. I have also used a couple for the Canadian mini box as I like the spans the world herald [though the model is not accurate]...
I am not what one would call a "runner", but I do have four test loops. I have an eclectic collection ranging from 75 year old Scale Craft through modern PSC, with lots of Max Gray and USH in between. While I appreciate the accuracy of the more recent PSC cars, and would love to have unlimited bucks for some Pacific Limited GS gondolas, I am happier running the older wooden and brass kits.
I have a complete set of Harriman passenger cars, but prefer to run, and indeed to admire, my hand-built Walthers cars. Just me.
Robbie---you are tough! I run my cars; busy decaling and painting a slew of models including a personal fav: the Overland Palace Poultry car! I'm partial to wood boxcars and hope to find an importer to do the XM varients... of course the x25 is also a great model to pursue.
I have about 8 psc x29 that I have painted and decaled for the roads that operated them: CNJ, Maine Central, B&O, PRR etc. I have also used a couple for the Canadian mini box as I like the spans the world herald [though the model is not accurate]...
Just think if someone did accurate ARA 1923 flavors of an X29 car you could have the right cars for CNJ decals!
I am hoping that Norm does 1937 cars with CP and CN specific details since CN had 18000 of them and CP had 9500+!
When Rich does the Mather cars we'll be well on our way with the missing pieces being filled in for wood cars though there are tons and tons of other good wood cars missing yet.
I always figured if you can't find what you want for sale somewhere, it doesn't do you a whole h*ll of a lot of good just knowing it exists.
I would, respectfully, disagree. Over the years a number of items were announced / advertised that never reached the production stage, and it is helpful to know that those items don't exist so that the search of a potential buyer can be redirected to a 'second choice' or Plan B, especially if that alternate item is hard to find [ or in some cases, hard to find at a non-atmospheric price.....]. Opinion, based on experience.
Best rgds, SZ
I run a several hundred car roster divided about 50/50 brass vs. plastic, along with a small mix of wood and resin body cars. In selecting what models to acquire I care less about the materials the car is made of and more about prototype fidelity, and how the car will fit my circa 1952 PRR theme.
I would like someone to do some PRR box cars that have not been previously offered. An X25's would be nice, but I'd also like to have several X26 and X29 rebuilds. The have the under frames of the original cars but with the taller. wider body dimensions of a postwar ones. The side sill and underbody details make them quite distinctive in a train heavy with AAR design box cars.
Ed Rappe
Do you brasser's run these cars, for display or use for personal mod's and alterations?
I always figured if you can't find what you want for sale somewhere, it doesn't do you a whole h*ll of a lot of good just knowing it exists.
I would, respectfully, disagree.
Best rgds, SZ
Disagree all you like. If you can't find an item for sale, you can't buy it, and plan "B" doesn't change that.
Simon
But don't you think it is useful to know that a certain item does NOT exist, and that
it is therefore a waste of time even to look for it? If I know in advance (from some sort
of credible inventory of models that have been produced in the past) that no one has
ever produced or imported a model of a particular engine or car, then I'm not going to
go out searching for it. In that case, I can devote my energy to looking for a second choice (Plan B) item that I know has been made and may, therefore, actually be available somewhere.
Let's suppose that years ago people knew for sure that there was no Holy Grail, then they
would't have wasted so much time and effort looking for it!
I always figured if you can't find what you want for sale somewhere, it doesn't do you a whole h*ll of a lot of good just knowing it exists.
I would, respectfully, disagree. Over the years a number of items were announced / advertised that never reached the production stage, and it is helpful to know that those items don't exist so that the search of a potential buyer can be redirected to a 'second choice' or Plan B, especially if that alternate item is hard to find [ or in some cases, hard to find at a non-atmospheric price.....]. Opinion, based on experience.
Best rgds, SZ
I always figured if you can't find what you want for sale somewhere, it doesn't do you a whole h*ll of a lot of good just knowing it exists.
I would, respectfully, disagree.
Best rgds, SZ
Disagree all you like. If you can't find an item for sale, you can't buy it, and plan "B" doesn't change that.
Simon
But don't you think it is useful to know that a certain item does NOT exist, and that
it is therefore a waste of time even to look for it? If I know in advance (from some sort
of credible inventory of models that have been produced in the past) that no one has
ever produced or imported a model of a particular engine or car, then I'm not going to
go out searching for it. In that case, I can devote my energy to looking for a second choice (Plan B) item that I know has been made and may, therefore, actually be available somewhere.
Let's suppose that years ago people knew for sure that there was no Holy Grail, then they
would't have wasted so much time and effort looking for it!
Certainly a lot of the fun of the train hobby is searching for that elusive car that is rare and very seldom seen for sale... kind of like when the real ones lose a car, lol!
What's probably more important here is the fact that one of the premier importers was planning on doing an X25 box car, a car never done in O scale, and had done a significant amount of research for the car. I don't know where all of that research went but it was rumored to have went "somewhere" and whomever has it supposedly wants a significant amount of money for it.
PRR boxcars seem oblivious to the "just another boxcar" crowd but for those who model for accuracy the mere fact that the PRR (and NYC) had more boxcars than others railroads had cars in their entire fleet should make at least a fair number of folks interested in an accurate model of one of these common cars.
Of course, at $300+ a pop YMMV.
M. David Vaughn owns the pacific limited name and pats files.... We speak somewhat regularly and their is interest in locating a builder to finish pats projects.
the usra clones, prr x25's and a run of usra s/s and d/s are the three we have discussed.
But don't you think it is useful to know that a certain item does NOT exist, and that it is therefore a waste of time even to look for it? If I know in advance (from some sort of credible inventory of models that have been produced in the past) that no one has ever produced or imported a model of a particular engine or car, then I'm not going to go out searching for it.
So what credible inventory is it that you use?
Simon
I like the idea of oblivious box cars. Most of mine are like that - they, and I, have no idea what is going on.
You guys will soon excommunicate me. A good number of my PRR box cars are just re-decalled All-Nation. I do have a Mini-Scale under restoration, and it indeed is somewhat accurate.
I like the idea of oblivious box cars. Most of mine are like that - they, and I, have no idea what is going on.
You guys will soon excommunicate me. A good number of my PRR box cars are just re-decalled All-Nation. I do have a Mini-Scale under restoration, and it indeed is somewhat accurate.
What you like is what you like, and it doesn't offend me one way or the other! Now bring on the inquisition! (Just Kidding Bob!)
Simon
I like the idea of oblivious box cars. Most of mine are like that - they, and I, have no idea what is going on.
You guys will soon excommunicate me. A good number of my PRR box cars are just re-decalled All-Nation. I do have a Mini-Scale under restoration, and it indeed is somewhat accurate.
No excommunication. Plenty of room for heretics with old train cars!
I always admired the late John Armstrong AND the late Ed Reutling for their love of old models. They enjoyed building a model of a railroad in the same manner that I and others enjoy rivet counting and having lots of different and accurate rolling stock.
So what credible inventory is it that you use?
You raise an excellent point; in my opinion, deciding what is or isn't credible has to be based on experience.
Here's an example from the SZ files, Case History 7895:
A. In the early 1980's ads by the importer for a small series of 0 scale passenger cars appeared in the major mags, complete with retail pricing.
B. In 1984 a fully illustrated book showing production covering many manufacturers, especially 0 scale, was published; these cars were illustrated.
C. Some years later, the manufactuer, on the occasion of their Nth Anniversary, published a booklet listing production to date; these cars were listed.
But the cars were never produced. Between 'B' and 'C' appearing I cajoled [ or nagged, if you will ] a friend who collected the brand to write to the manufacturer asking about these cars, plus a few similar mysteries; he received a very nice reply from someone with the institutional knowlege to provide definitive answers.
So: Do you stop using Reference B, which used the photos of that manufacturer's same cars that were produced but in HO ? No, it's still a valuable source -- especially where 0 scale only mfgs are concerned ! But Reference C has to be treated with a lot of skepticism. One learns -- just like internet sources.
Regards, SZ
So what credible inventory is it that you use?
You raise an excellent point; in my opinion, deciding what is or isn't credible has to be based on experience.
Regards, SZ
I agree 100%!
Simon
A lot of conversation points to the lack of what has been produced in brass. I was wondering if some place there could be a site where individuals could ad to a list of what they own, No names, just to point to out these did sale at one time. Maker, model, roads. No registering to get on but just listing what one knows. Be nice if it could be on this website. It could be broken down into importers, (manufacturers), yr?etc and then we would almost know what is out there and maybe even prices they sold for.
Phil
A lot of conversation points to the lack of what has been produced in brass. I was wondering if some place there could be a site where individuals could ad to a list of what they own, No names, just to point to out these did sale at one time. Maker, model, roads. No registering to get on but just listing what one knows. Be nice if it could be on this website. It could be broken down into importers, (manufacturers), yr?etc and then we would almost know what is out there and maybe even prices they sold for.
Phil
Sounds like a good crowd source exercise,
IMO it shouldn't be a list of what people own - but a list of what we know has been actually built. Unless the list is for brass collectors, why restrict it to just brass cars. When assembling a freight car roster it's useful to know what's been previously commercially offered - regardless of material - regardless of kit or built up. In response to Simon's point I've found if it's been offered commercially eventually it will show up on a meet table, estate sale, or eBay. Knowing what's been produced helps me know what, where, and how to search for - it just may take awhile to find it. I'd recommend against listing current pricing as in our very small market it's just too variable. Original MSRP would be of historical interest.
Ed Rappe
A BRASS database alone would be a monumental task. The idea of a cooperative listing sounds nice in theory, but how do you ensure accuracy and keep the "gremlins" away. As far as dollar values, unless it is original list price, I see NO point in that because values will become irrelevant sooner or later. What is HOT today is many times NOT tomorrow. Knowing production numbers would be far more valuable, but where are you going to get them.......the Importer, obviously, but some are not so forthcoming as far as giving out information. Hate to be negative, but I just don't see it happening.
I just don't think you can circumvent the "experience" thing.
Simon
I didn't say that I have, or know of, a "credible inventory," only that if such an inventory could be produced, then it would be very useful.
There's a Kohs NCY Hudson on ebay for $11,995. Probably overpriced and speculating. But, even at a lower price, I don't get it. I've seen Kohs pieces at shows etc and sorta checked them out. But, I don't get it. Help me understand why anyone would pay that kind of money. No disrespect intended. Pure, honest question. Thanks in advance.
There's a Kohs NCY Hudson on ebay for $11,995. Probably overpriced and speculating. But, even at a lower price, I don't get it. I've seen Kohs pieces at shows etc and sorta checked them out. But, I don't get it. Help me understand why anyone would pay that kind of money. No disrespect intended. Pure, honest question. Thanks in advance.
Just a guess but: 1) they want it, and 2) they have the money.
There's a Kohs NCY Hudson on ebay for $11,995. Probably overpriced and speculating. But, even at a lower price, I don't get it. I've seen Kohs pieces at shows etc and sorta checked them out. But, I don't get it. Help me understand why anyone would pay that kind of money. No disrespect intended. Pure, honest question. Thanks in advance.
Asking price does not always equal "getting" price. . I have a few Kohs cars and Kohs, like Glacier Park Models and KEY Imports, are the current state of the art.
I don't own any Kohs or Key locomotives simply because they aren't made in P:48. I would love to have two, tree, a pair of Kohs GG1's in P:48 but I suspect it would cost thousands to convert just one loco.
Anyhoo, I'm in the process of setting up a "O scale brass list" in Yahoo Groups. It would be nice to have like minded folks discussing the topics. Ultimately it would be nice to have a standardized database with Manufacturer names, model numbers, approximate run dates and quantities as well as pictures and descriptions.
Omitting even original selling price might be a good idea.
I agree with the statement:
Just a guess but: 1) they want it, and 2) they have the money.
That's why someone buys a Rolex or Vacheron Constantine, even though a Timex
does the job. And why would someone want it? -- craftsmanship, rarity, satisfaction
of ownership, evidence of ability to pay, etc. etc.
A BRASS database alone would be a monumental task.
It would keep some folks off the streets from stealing hubcaps for a while,
The idea of a cooperative listing sounds nice in theory, but how do you ensure accuracy and keep the "gremlins" away.
Actually, I and a few others set up just such an effort to replicate the Model RR Magazine Index and that effort exists over on a Yahoo group....
As far as dollar values, unless it is original list price, I see NO point in that because values will become irrelevant sooner or later. What is HOT today is many times NOT tomorrow.
Prices change with every variable including phase of the moon.....
That would also be useful - no doubt about it.
There's a Kohs NCY Hudson on ebay for $11,995.
1st listing was at $17,995, 
It's been dropping....
Probably overpriced....
Ya' think?
why restrict it to just brass cars. When assembling a freight car roster it's useful to know what's been previously commercially offered - regardless of material - regardless of kit or built up.
There have been over 200 different O scale freight car models tooled and produced in plastic since the 1990s. When you add road names/paint schemes the numbers are well into the thousands. For all road numbers multiply again.
For brass freight cars the number of different freight car designs might be higher but the total number of road names/paint schemes might not.
IMO it shouldn't be a list of what people own - but a list of what we know has been actually built. Unless the list is for brass collectors, why restrict it to just brass cars. When assembling a freight car roster it's useful to know what's been previously commercially offered - regardless of material - regardless of kit or built up. In response to Simon's point I've found if it's been offered commercially eventually it will show up on a meet table, estate sale, or eBay. Knowing what's been produced helps me know what, where, and how to search for - it just may take awhile to find it. I'd recommend against listing current pricing as in our very small market it's just too variable. Original MSRP would be of historical interest.
Ed Rappe
I tried starting a spreadsheet on one of the Anthracite Roads web sites of accurate O scale rolling stock.
One of the biggest problems is quantifying what constitutes "accurate". To me the San Juan Car Company kits are dead-nutz accurate and my Pacific Limited Seaboard Air Line 1932 car scores only an 8 out of 10 since it has single layer etching that poorly represents the built-up nature of the actual car.
It would be great to chronicle what cars have been done over the years and come up with a scale to rate their accuracy in not only dimensional accuracy but fidelity to prototype and the accuracy of details.
I know from my own efforts how difficult of a task it is to develop photographic evidence of every car I own as well as some semblance of fidelity to the numbers of the prototype, i.e. having lots and lots of H21s and X29's since they WERE the predominate box and hopper cars of my era/area.
Ultimately this would be a great thing, but for now I'd prefer to get away from the computer and start painting and lettering the fleet... and adding to it with accurate, common cars such as X25's and the like.
Bumpety bump... Yoder ACL Cars are here!!!! Meeting Rich at 1 to pick them up!
Rob,
please post images of the acl models!
Rob,
please post images of the acl models!
Unfortunately I'm on the road but the cars are GORGEOUS! Really nicely done and from first glance seem very accurate.
ANOTHER winner from Rich! 
ANOTHER winner from Rich!
Master Yoda has the knack.
Rob,
please post images of the acl models!
B Smith,
"""That's why someone buys a Rolex or Vacheron Constantine, even though a Timex
does the job. And why would someone want it? -- craftsmanship, rarity, satisfaction
of ownership, evidence of ability to pay, etc. etc."""
Thanks for narrowing my reasons for owning a Brass model, models,
Phill
I didn't say that I have, or know of, a "credible inventory," only that if such an inventory could be produced, then it would be very useful.
So we are using a mythical inventory.
As my old Daddy always said about IF: If the old bullfrog had wings, he wouldn't have to drag his behind on the ground.
You are a bit too concerned with what has NOT been produced rather than what has. I look at everything out there I can, and the more I look, the more I know about just exactly what IS out there, and if I stumble across "Plan B", well I'll buy it if I'm able, and I won't give a second thought to "Plan A" because it might be a ghost. Do I know it all? The answer: A resounding NO! But the more I know of what is there, the more likely I am to make an "informed" choice, and magical inventory or not, you can't buy what ain't there!
Simon
Simon -- I really don't know what you are going on about here. You seem to have
deliberately misconstrued my point, which is no more complicated than suggesting
that it could be interesting and useful to have a comprehensive and well-documented list of models produced over the years in O-scale.
What your daddy said about the bullfrog may be true, but there is no analogy to the
matter in question.
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