Lionel or MTH railking

That's pretty much the way I see it.  We don't control or regulate the brand preferences of anyone on this forum, and I suspect that the vast majority of participants here actually enjoy a number of different brands--Lionel, MTH, Williams, Weaver, Atlas, 3rd Rail, RMT, and more.

Perhaps there are simply more MTH operators on this forum, for whatever reason, but I kind of doubt that is the case.  

Layout features I receive for the magazine display what is pretty much an even distribution of motive power brands (and rolling stock), although I really don't pay much attention to that unless the author elects to mention it in the text or captions, and/or if he or she discusses the control system(s) used.

From the advertising perspective of the magazine, Lionel is certainly one of our major advertisers and you can darn well believe we are grateful for their consistent support.

Product reviews are selected on the basis of what is available (and new to the market), with little regard for who made the item.  And "Smoke Signals" listings are available to any firm or supplier willing to supply the image and info.

So, if one brand or the other receives (seemingly) more discussion on the forum, it's likely the result of those who own one brand or the other being more motivated to write about their experiences.  It's certainly not an intentional bias because anyone is welcome to write whatever he or she feels so long as the initial and ensuing discussion remains civil.

Not since I joined 13 years ago coming on tomorrow, but for the past year or so, yep. 

One aspect of Lionel vs. MTH that hasn't been addressed to a great degree is that Lionel presently seems to be interested in and continues to grow the O gauge market here in United States as shown by the introduction of both the LionChief and LionChief Plus lines as well as a new top of the line transformer, while MTH to a steadily increasing degree seems to be abandoning who made them what they are today and in turn is now "chasing the money" so to speak with their prominent foray into both the European and HO markets - turning their attention and resources away from the United States and o gauge. That's a situation even MTH fans find it difficult to dispute.

One aspect of Lionel vs. MTH that hasn't been addressed to a great degree is that while Lionel seems to be consistently interested in and continues to grow the O gauge market in United States as shown by the introduction of LionChief         Well i don't see it that way i think Lionel is trying to play catch up  and LionChief don't work  with TMCC/Legacy where Mth starter sets will work with full dcs

" Well i don't see it that way i think Lionel is trying to play catch up  and LionChief don't work  with TMCC/Legacy where Mth starter sets will work with full dcs"

As has been pointed out previously, contrary to popular opinion, LionChief and LionChief Plus locos will operate just fine in the TMCC/Legacy environment. Or DCS for that matter.  Or conventional (though not on the same block or loop as a conventional loco).  There is no incompatibility in any way. 

These systems are essentially command locos, each with their own specific controller.  With which other locos,  whether from Lionel or anyone else does what is effectively a simple and inexpensive command handheld remote come with each and every loco and set?

If Lionel is playing catchup, they have now passed and perhaps lapped the competition, because they have created the least expensive, by far, sets and locos that can operate in command mode simultaneously on the same block/loop as any other command loco.

The least expensive LionChief sets and locos are more like $100 less costly than anything in command mode made by anyone, to reiterate a point that seems to require repeating . 

Railking may be the best bargain among RTRs but the question wasn't specific to RTR sets.  Since Lionel suspended the Lionmaster line (which I thought was fantastic), Railking is just about it whenever I want semi-scale with all the bells, whistles and sound, etc. (e.g., I just ordered the Triplex).  They are good locos and many are a lot of fun.  But I am mostly into scale now, and I end up buying about twice as many Lionel as MTH, even though the Lionel usually costs a bit more - I think I get my monies worth. 

Not sure where you get your pricing from, but some of the comparable sets are only $30 less.  Sure some are approaching $70 but your not getting anything close to the quality and performance of a PS-2 or 3 engine.  Whenever a customer came in looking for a starter set and I demonstrated Lionel set and a MTH set, they always chose MTH.  They would listen to a trainsounds diesel set and then a PS-2 diesel and it was a no brainer.

Lionchief is orient towards children, and you still don't have full Command capability, coupler action, synchronized smoke and sounds, speed control, etc... G

Charlie Ro is advertising LionChief sets for as low as $150.  I understand they are a relatively low cost retailer, but not atypical of many Lionel dealers. Perhaps I'm wrong, but do you or other dealers have any current production PS3 sets for $180 or $220? I don't believe there are many or even any PS3 sets by MTH with retail prices within $100 of the $150 price.

Ro is advertising LionChief Plus locos at just over $300 for steamers and just over $200 for diesels.  I don't think there are many, if any RailKing PS3 locos within that price range. You're picking the worst case comparisons for Lionel and the best case for MTH, not unreasonable given that you are an MTH authorized service station, per your signature.

I'm sure you can reasonably convince buyers to buy MTH at higher prices for their added value.  I'm equally sure other dealers can sell two Lionel sets for the price of one MTH set, or one Lionel set plus extra track instead of an MTH with a single loop, and make that case for value.  Different strokes for different folks.

As for LionChief being primarily for children, I didn't realize that was a crime .

LionChief Plus will have coupler function and speed control, and both LionChief and LionChief Plus have full command capability to the same extent as TMCC/Legacy/DCS if one defines command control as fully independent control of each loco in terms of speed, direction, sound.  Not sure what you believe is lacking in command capability.

Time will tell whether the approach will work.  MTH sets are designed to get a person started and expose them to DCS with full features.  Up until this year with the LCF sets you had no comparison in a Lionel set.

If a person looked and ran the MTH SD-70 with ditch lights, smoke, ramp up sounds, dual couplers, volume control, speed control against the Lionel GP-38 set with Train sounds and the cheap can motors there was no comparison.  The price difference at a LHS was about $30 for those 2 set.  Same with Steam.  That MTH set should have been compared to a Lionel Premium set.

I still think the flaw is the train only works with its remote.  Once a person gets involved and expands some there is a limitation that comes with LCF sets that don't exist with other manufacturer sets.  If the expansion into Legacy/TMCC or DCS occurs the train pretty much goes on the shelf, or gets relegate to the tree. 

So I don't think Lionel has lapped MTH.  MTH is focused at the hobbyist.  Lionel is a bigger company and some of their products are focused at the toy market or niche applications.

Some one coming to a forum for information is probably looking for a deeper involvement in the hobby than the annual train layout. If LCF is predicated to be so good, I would think all the Conventional equivalents would be dropped from the catalog.  I am ready to be convinced otherwise, but I am waiting for the technical post on how guys modified the PE LCF set and got it to work on their CAB-1.  At that point I will sell my conventional version and buy one.   G

Three comments:

Lionchief sets currently on the market are clearly aimed at "youth" as real "market starter" sets (those positioned to get people into model trains): I think Lionel worked very hard to get price down and young appeal up.  

I think MTH offered (last time I looked) slightly better value for the money when it comes to diesel RTR sets, some of which are pretty appealing.  Over the last five or so years I've bought Lionel (3) and MTH (3) starter sets, but only steam - a good way to get materials when you are starting out/expanding/building grandkid layouts - and my opinion of value and quality is colored by the fact that all three Lionel locos are still running fine while none of the MTH are.

Threads like this always devolve into pointless argument which solves nothing and goes no where much.  Both companies seem to be prospering and that means they are doing it right - apparently there are no Blackberries or Eastman Kodaks in this industry.  

Grown men argueing over a childs starter set

The minute Lionel were to make them Legacy compatible there would be a thread on "who wants to spend twice as much on a remote system as they do on a set"?

Let lionel worry about it, if its a bad idea you guys can pick one up on blowout and that will compensate for the poor design.

This set caters more to "non train" parents and kids who would think we were all crazy for spending what we do on a toy train that goes in circles when for a couple hundred bucks for an i phone, the internet can take you anywhere.

I don't understand why folks on the forum "assume" everyone  else likes trains, the fact is , nothing could be further from the truth.

I think there seems to be a potential consensus that for the family on a tight budget,  or someone who isn't sure they want to go whole hog in the hobbyist direction, the Lionel LionChief or future LionChief Plus lower cost sets may represent better value.  For those looking for a deeper, more permanent,  long term commitment to a hobby, the more expensive MTH PS3 sets, which ultimately will require DCS purchase for full functionality,  may represent better value.  In that sense the debate has produced some insights that might be useful to a beginner. 

Both companies are in business to sell their products and I believe it would be interesting if we had an idea on the sales figures for their starter sets.

Jerry