Lionel Releases Strasburg #90

@Prr7688 posted:

Alright, were within 10 days... who here's a betting man?

With all seriousness, the 1960s/2020 "Strasburg Egg" version moved from a 6/24 delivery date to "Sold Out" on LionelStore website - not sure if that is an automatic thing that the website does or it someone at Lionel manually does it at time of arrival.

The Lionel Store website has 7/14 date for the rest of them... Charles Ro has a 7/10 date.

The only real way to tell is when they goto instock status, but that's not gonna happen since they are all sold out

As the old saying goes:

"I'll believe it when I see it."

Is this gonna also be offered lettered for its original home road, the Great Western? In this version?

@colorado hirailer posted:

Is this gonna also be offered lettered for its original home road, the Great Western? In this version?

Yes, it was first offering in the catalog on the page spread in the catalog that shows the locomotives

I'm curious as to why some of us plan to spend such big bucks for this locomotive.

I was thinking it would go for $400, $600 tops.

Is its appeal that it's a detailed model of the tourist train near the York train show, and that people feel nostalgic about it?

My interest in #90 is tied to its interesting location and history, on its original home road, a Colorado high plains sugar beet hauler short line that happened to be one of last to offer passenger service on  a combine that's in the Golden museom,  and on assorted Great Western cabooses.  It was the largest power for a standard gauge short line in a state famous for a variety of narrow gauge roads. I would spring that $600 for it, but 3x that?   In Sweden they were printing kronor bills on toilet paper to protest inflation....implying the money was worthless..

Unless one has money to burn, which many hobbyists have, but a low percentage of us have, it's unthinkable to spend over $1,000, and unwise to spend over $600, for this, IMO.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I'm curious as to why some of us plan to spend such big bucks for this locomotive.

I was thinking it would go for $400, $600 tops.

Is its appeal that it's a detailed model of the tourist train near the York train show, and that people feel nostalgic about it?

$400-$600 for a Baldwin Standard Decapod made of new tooling? While I fully agree the price tag on these engines is much too high at $1900, $400-$600, when the Moguls, which are smaller engines, and older tooling, sit at $800, I can't see any way Lionel or anyone else could justify a $400-$600 price tag on an O Scale Baldwin Standard Decapod with Legacy.

And I think the appeal is indeed nostalgia. I know it is for me.

@MissingME&WV posted:

$400-$600 for a Baldwin Standard Decapod made of new tooling? While I fully agree the price tag on these engines is much too high at $1900, $400-$600, when the Moguls, which are smaller engines, and older tooling, sit at $800, I can't see any way Lionel or anyone else could justify a $400-$600 price tag on an O Scale Baldwin Standard Decapod with Legacy.

And I think the appeal is indeed nostalgia. I know it is for me.

Point well taken, Missing ME&WV. However, IMO, the Moguls you mention are also priced way too high.

For those the have harnessed the powers of capitalism or otherwise can afford these expensive models, I salute you for your financial success. If I was as well off financially, I would gladly pay high prices as a contribution to this cottage industry as an act of generosity.

As always, an interesting discussion.  Capitalism still works, I think???  Mike CT.   

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I'm curious as to why some of us plan to spend such big bucks for this locomotive.

I was thinking it would go for $400, $600 tops.

Is its appeal that it's a detailed model of the tourist train near the York train show, and that people feel nostalgic about it?

I think this one is a little different (although I agree the price is very high as I was hoping about 400 less or so.).   Although we have not seen the actual model yet to verify anything, it is supposed to be a very accurate replica of the actual 90 many of us here in the area have ridden behind many times.  Brass hybrid of course makes it more expensive and then the real actual recordings of the sounds and the special ghost whistle.  I mean why do people pay 2600 or more for a big boy?  It's just what you like I suppose.  I will guarantee this, once they sellout, you will see them on eBay for double! lol.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Unless one has money to burn, which many hobbyists have, but a low percentage of us have, it's unthinkable to spend over $1,000, and unwise to spend over $600, for this, IMO.

I have a few points, despite not (yet) having ordered a Strasburg 90.

1) It seems the going rate for a large, O-scale steam locomotive model is $1,200-2,000.

2) While not branded Vision Line, it seems to me that this model is/will be the epitome of what Lionel has said the Vision Line will be.  An extremely detailed, exceptionally accurate, scale model of a prototype that has not been modeled before in O-Scale.

3) Even going back a decade, the top of the line from Lionel exceeded $1k.  This is (or at least has been pitched as) one of the highest tier models from Lionel.

4) I think for many railfans Strasburg is more than just a tourist line near York.  Strasburg brought back steam long before anyone else, and has continued to operate a professional and successful heritage operation for decades.  It seems to me that Strasburg is the closest that America has to the UK's Bluebell.  While the multiple operational steam locomotives is part of the draw, 90 is clearly the queen of the fleet. 

It's no worse than a $500 command base that doesn't include a handheld😉

Adjusted for inflation, the price for #90 isn't too far off from what Lionel charged for the scale 700E Hudson in 1937.

Just like in 1937, it's a big price for one item. I'm going to wait and see how the first run goes. If there are no QC issues, I'll consider ordering one if/when there is a second production run.

Looks like Charles Ro has pushed back their expected availability by two months.... maybe we will see these this calendar year? @Dave Olson @Conrail6358

https://charlesro-com.3dcartst.../store_l2231030.html

@BlueComet400 posted:

Adjusted for inflation, the price for #90 isn't too far off from what Lionel charged for the scale 700E Hudson in 1937.

Just like in 1937, it's a big price for one item. I'm going to wait and see how the first run goes. If there are no QC issues, I'll consider ordering one if/when there is a second production run.

It was 1938 and back then it was $75 which was very high.  Adjusted for inflation in 2023 would be $1553.

But the average Lionel set in the Sears catalogue ranged form $9.95 - $13.95 which would be an average of $207 - $267 in 2023.

The argument has prevailed for quite some time on the forum that Lionel trains today are the same bargain they were in the old days.  The math doesn't add up.

Use the inflation calculator and see for yourselves.

John

@Prr7688 posted:

Looks like Charles Ro has pushed back their expected availability by two months.... maybe we will see these this calendar year? @Dave Olson @Conrail6358

https://charlesro-com.3dcartst.../store_l2231030.html

Well it seems the recently released L1 Mikado got the same date bump too,  but they are already at dealers.

@tom21pa posted:

Well it seems the recently released L1 Mikado got the same date bump too,  but they are already at dealers.

Interesting development.... it seems to me that not all dealer have received their L1s yet, just a select few?

@Prr7688 posted:

Interesting development.... it seems to me that not all dealer have received their L1s yet, just a select few?

Makes sense. You would think there would be more buzz about these, yet I've only seen 2.

Maybe Lionel is holding them to inspect the gearboxes.

Well, since l am not Scrooge McDuck, diving in and out of piles of greenbacks,  l am a little disappointed that what l value something for may be less than others, but that applies to other pricy choices l might drool over. too.  No castle in the Dordogne, no 16 cylinder Marmon in my garage, tsk, tsk, times are obviously tough for me, but when electronics fail and a used #90 shows up on the market, that a competent repairman can conventionalize, l will be a happy clam. (Might take a while)

I have an L1 on order through Ro and my credit card has not been charged yet.  Nor have I received any shipping notice yet. So it would appear that their web site is correct. The A5s are also pushed back.  They were due out beginning of July and now show August.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I'm curious as to why some of us plan to spend such big bucks for this locomotive.

I was thinking it would go for $400, $600 tops.

Is its appeal that it's a detailed model of the tourist train near the York train show, and that people feel nostalgic about it?

For me, this is a locomotive that I hoped someone would make since the first time I visited Strasburg 40 years ago, in addition to the history of the Strasburg Railroad. It is the first tourist train I ever rode on. I also lived about 45 minutes away from Strasburg and I spent a lot of time there either taking a ride, just relaxing watching the trains come and go and visiting hobby shops in the area along with the Choo Choo Barn.

I wasn’t thrilled with the price of the model. I ordered it at the expense of several other engines I wanted to buy. But I’m banking on it being a good quality model that I’ve wanted for years and no one else is making it or planning to, so the options are limited.

And I already have a set of Strasburg passenger cars from MTH a few years ago in anticipation.

@Traindiesel posted:

And I already have a set of Strasburg passenger cars from MTH a few years ago in anticipation.

I have the cars, they're struggling along with #89 pulling them, but maybe we'll double-head it with #90 when it comes out.   Then I can put the other five cars on the train, the #89 Mogul can't pull all twelve of them up the grade.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I'm curious as to why some of us plan to spend such big bucks for this locomotive.

I was thinking it would go for $400, $600 tops.

Is its appeal that it's a detailed model of the tourist train near the York train show, and that people feel nostalgic about it?

In the late 90's, my Father and Mother took the family on vacation to the Amish country in PA and we (at my insistence) made Strasburg one of our stops.

After we arrived, my father went for a walk and come back about 15 minutes later. He then told me he had an early birthday present and I was not only going on the train - but I would be riding in the cab of #90.

Somehow my Dad talked to the "right person" and managed to find common ground to let me have this experience. Dad was very good at this sort of discussion.

While everyone else filed into the rail cars to enjoy the ride and lunch, I climbed into the cab and was quickly put to work shoveling coal. They Engineer and Fireman were both fine gentlemen and were enjoying showing off their engine.

I had a ball on that ride and the memory of the sounds, sights and smells are very much alive. Much like the engine seemed alive while it was being fed coal, and various valves and levers were coaxing her next move.

Long way around to answering your question Arnold - but that is why I'm getting this engine.

I'll leave the discussion of what things should cost for someone else.

And thanks Dad.

Paul

We all have our limits on what we can afford or justify. For some, the price of #90 is a stretch, for others, it's pocket change, and then there are those for whom it is simply out of reach. Calling the purchase "unwise" is a bit harsh IMO unless you know the buyer's financial situation.

I was ready to buy #90, but have decided to wait and see how the first run goes. For now, my new Legacy #89, along with my Canadian National (soon to be Strasburg) #86, will do the job of pulling the MTH woodsided cars on my layout. If production run #1 goes well, and if/when they do a second run, I'll re-visit buying #90.

@BlueComet400 posted:

If production run #1 goes well, and if/when they do a second run, I'll re-visit buying #90.

No guts, no glory John, you should go for it.

Heck, if I didn't go in on #90, I'd never forgive myself. Seeing this beauty in person made me want one even more. Given the fact that there hadn't been any O Scale offerings(that I know of), would have really made me kick my pants. If it runs, that will be great, if there's problems, it will have to get fixed(whichever way that would go). I'm in, that's what matters to me.

It feels like this engine is never going to arrive....

I’m getting the feeling right now that if 90 does get released this year, it’ll be during the Christmas sweep…

"But the average Lionel set in the Sears catalogue ranged form $9.95 - $13.95 which would be an average of $207 - $267 in 2023."

I don't think this is an entirely accurate comparison for various reasons.  Sears was the lowest of the low end.  Catalogued sets from Lionel (as opposed to Sears) were more like $20-25 at the low end for most of the 1950s, so double that inflation adjusted number at the least.  The products then were made with very inexpensive labor in the USA (versus inexpensive labor in China today), with no regulations/costs for safety and environmental impact, which would be relevant if made in the USA today and have some relevance in China.  In addition, the product in the last century was made in quantities perhaps 10-100 fold higher than today, so some benefits of mass production/economies of scale, albeit still hand assembled.

Finally, the product today contains electronics not even dreamed of mid-20th century, including sound and command control.  So something of an apples to oranges comparison in many ways.

It's like comparing an automobile of that period with no electronics, modest reliability, no safety equipment with a similar automobile today.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No guts, no glory John, you should go for it.

Sorry John.........I'm going to wait; especially now that Lionel is going to produce Black River & Western #60. Who knows? Both locos might arrive at the same time, which would be fitting, considering #90 and #60 are both ex-Great Western RR locos.

The #60 might arrive first!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The #60 might arrive first!

I know you're joking, but it might become a reality.

I am glad Lionel is taking the time to do things the right way, what bothers me is the lack of communication regarding the release. After the initial "ship" date passed, they should have been communicating every update to dealers. That would be the more professional thing to do.

To add to the conversation I intend to.purchase the engine and reletter renumber and weather it for my RR.

Don, I bet that will look great running on your layout.

Folks need to remember that all model train stuff is a small niche market, I say 'model' to differentiate from train 'sets' intended for kids to play with and abuse, as opposed to those of us who like to run things more sanely.  I have nothing against train sets, I have several and love to run them on my minimalist empire along side more detailed and expensive things.  But...considering the population of the US and those in that number that are into O gauge stuff, and those that want to buy a particular engine, car, or consist, you have to charge a lot to make the endeavor of  design and  tooling up to make a 'thing' interesting to just a handful of people, worthwhile.  I'm sure if the #90 ran in a Sears and Roebuck Lionel display layout at Christmastime today, if both existed as they did when I was a kid,  they would be cheaper and they would sell to a more diverse market than to just a bunch of old timers tinkering in their basements (if you have a basement).  Another option if you really wanted this model was to find another 2-8-0 and change it into the Strasburg #90.  Trainz has a candidate for sale right now for $117.

Charles Ro has the 'expected availability' as Sept. 10th... one week from today.

I don't think this expected date will come to fruition - has anyone heard an updated date?

@Prr7688 posted:

Charles Ro has the 'expected availability' as Sept. 10th... one week from today.

I don't think this expected date will come to fruition - has anyone heard an updated date?

Now 11/10.... but you clearly can't trust any of those dates.

I forgot, did I pre-order this?  Wait, way back in the distant past I think I may have!

I don't know why some folks want to keep looking at the dates? They don't mean anything really. When you hear that there in stock, then I'd worry about it.