MTH vs Lionel Legacy recommendation

I have to agree, going from PS/1 to PS2/3 was a big jump, and it's no different than Lionel going from conventional to command.  After all, when Lionel introduced TMCC, you had to buy extra hardware to run conventional equipment with their TMCC system.  MTH had a box that ran conventional equipment, including PS/1, without buying anything else.+

In either case, if you already had a conventional transformer, you could run either system with no added equipment for conventional operation.

@H1000 posted:

Proto 1 is strictly a conventionally operated system. Proto 2 & 3 can also be operated conventionally which essentially makes them backward compatible. What backward compatibility is missing?

Agreed, This argument rings hollow at this point.  You cannot operate a conventional Lionel engine with TMCC without additional components.  MTH made a decision to leave PS1 as conventional engines and not provide upgrades to PS2.  It's not like PS1 engines stopped operating when DCS was released.  In fact the TIU provided variable channels to operate PS1 locomotives with a remote.

BTW, Atlas has licensed DCS from MTH to improve their sound sets.  I'm betting they choose to do this because Lionel wouldn't license Legacy...  Good for them because Atlas models definitely need better sound sets.

If your a brand loyalist and will only buy one or the other your missing out on many fine models.

@MichRR714 posted:

Agreed, This argument rings hollow at this point.  You cannot operate a conventional Lionel engine with TMCC without additional components.  MTH made a decision to leave PS1 as conventional engines and not provide upgrades to PS2.

That's not really true either.  The PS/2 upgrade kit was specifically targeted at the PS/1 locomotives, though they worked with other brands as well.  When you read the PS/2 Upgrade Kit documentation, there are multiple references to the PS/1 models and how to upgrade and what to modify.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's not really true either.  The PS/2 upgrade kit was specifically targeted at the PS/1 locomotives, though they worked with other brands as well.  When you read the PS/2 Upgrade Kit documentation, there are multiple references to the PS/1 models and how to upgrade and what to modify.

John, My reference was that there were and are people that expected MTH would make their PS1 engines command capable engines without expense to them.  That obviously didn't happen and I certainly understand why.

@MichRR714 posted:

Agreed, This argument rings hollow at this point.  You cannot operate a conventional Lionel engine with TMCC without additional components.  MTH made a decision to leave PS1 as conventional engines and not provide upgrades to PS2.  It's not like PS1 engines stopped operating when DCS was released.  In fact the TIU provided variable channels to operate PS1 locomotives with a remote.

BTW, Atlas has licensed DCS from MTH to improve their sound sets.  I'm betting they choose to do this because Lionel wouldn't license Legacy...  Good for them because Atlas models definitely need better sound sets.

If your a brand loyalist and will only buy one or the other your missing out on many fine models.

I agree that arguing about PS1 is a bit strange to me, you could upgrade a PS1 to PS2/3 with the upgrade kits that were out there (not easily), the same way when Lionel went to TMCC you could upgrade it (once ERR came out with its board kits, Lionel itself never offered any upgrade kit as far as I know until they bought ERR).

This point has been fought over ad infinitum, and in the end you are taking a pig in a poke with either of them. Neither of them has particularly good support these days and in the end you rely on third party people to possibly be able to fix it, that they can get the parts and so forth. If it breaks down the road, you may find that your only option is to run conventional or perhaps swap it to TMCC via ERR boards or maybe some dead rail system.  If you like one systems sound better than the other, great, if you like Lionel because they still have a remote offered, that is great, but arguing over reliability or service sounds like a wash to me. Nice part, if you like the way the engine looks, you can always use ERR boards and still have command control.  It would be awesome if MTH would license PS3 to ERR and Lionel allow them to do legacy boards (I never did figure out, I am sure one of you knows, does ERR get its boards made from someone else, or do they get them from Lionel/Lionel's supplier?).  Having that would go a long way to feeling better (at least me), the electronics is the part most likely to fail and be impossible to get.

@bigkid posted:

Lionel itself never offered any upgrade kit as far as I know until they bought ERR).

Well, that's not entirely true, though it was only selected models.  Lionel had TMCC upgradable models you just dropped the R2LC and Railsounds board in and you had a TMCC engine.