Nail Guns

I’ve owned a lot of nailers and still do.  Porter Cable framing nailer, PC finish nailer, PC brad nailer, Kobalt pin nailer, DeWalt cordless finish nailer, etc.  

However, I didn’t use any of them on my layout.  I like screws for structure and they’re better for disassembly should that day come.  That said, if you’re in the market, pneumatic tools are pretty darn cheap now and I really haven’t used a brand I hated.  I would get a 18v cordless finish nailer to avoid lugging the compressor through the house. Those are handy.  I had good look with my DeWalt Ni-Cad but that’s old school now.  The lithium ion version gets high marks.

Thanks Mike.  One thought I have is to make L girder construction quick and easy, tacking the two pieces together; a lot like doing molding work around the house.  Facia attachment might be another good application.  Keep it coming.

Blessings

Earl       

I have a DeWalt air powered brad nailer that comes in very handy for repairs around the house and woodworking projects.

I have built over 30 layouts and have never and would never consider using nails on a layout.  I do not care how carefully you design and plan, at some point you will want to change something.   You can remove screws all day dong without disturbing track work or scenery but if you try to pry nails, anything close to where you are working is subject to be disturbed.

For layout building, I strongly recommend a good cordless torqueless screw gun ( I guess they are called impact drivers).  With one, you can drive a screw almost as fast as you could nail - and take it out again faster!  All without fatiguing your wrist. (and believe me, at 74 it makes a huge difference).

Goodluck with your decision and your new layout build.

Don

I'm no expert, but based on what experience I have, I certainly agree with Don (and Mike), and would definitely use screws rather than nails.

OK, here goes.

I have used nail guns all of my working life. So much of my opinion maybe out of date here. A favorite saying my old boss told me, is to look at the price of nails before you buy. Some guns seem like a great deal but the nails can be overpriced. I remember deals many years ago where if you bought a few large cases of nails, they gave you the gun!

 The main thing I tell people is to buy quality guns. The cheap imported ones have cheap metal nail drivers that mushroom out or thin and allow for double nails to jam them up. Unfortunately if you use the guns a lot, they'll all need rebuilding after time. So the big name quality guns are also easy to get parts for. I'm saying you can usually get what you pay for. So if it's some off brand at a lower price, I myself, steer clear.

 Some newer brands have opened my eyes up to their great performance. I bought a Porter cable gun and have been pleased with it. I used to stick to maybe three or four main brands depending on the type of gun (Spot nails, Senco, Duofast, and ???etc.).

 Now I would strongly suggest people use the nail guns just the way any contractor would. They speed the job up. They can even make it more economical like using staples to hold the sub ply down. In combination with glue, the hold can last forever. Drywall screws can sheer off or have the heads snap off in some instances. So I have always decided on the fastener, looking at what stress and direction of stress will it go thru. My favorite is screws or bolts in combination with framing nails on main supports. That's how the main center beam is built carrying the load of our house on it!

 If your not going to climb up on the layout, some of this is overkill. I have more experience building general home stuff than layouts themselves. So my guns were purchased for home remodeling. They come in real handy for any job that needs doing. I have also built speaker cabinets for R&R shows with them. Even some furniture.

Personally I recommend Screws. I use star tip screws. Depending on what size wood you're putting together would determine length, I used 3" for putting two 2 x 4's together but 2" to go thru my 23/32 plywood into 2 x 4's. 

Screw gun, drill driver, my choice.   At least, if you're an electrician.   Without an air compressor, two batteries, one always charging, IMO  Mike CT.  Drill driver, while not the best, has the ability to hammer drill, masonry materials.   Note  Edit/Add:  These plastic boxes provided with the Dewalt kits, IMO, are one of the best containment systems, I've experience in my 40 years as a contractor.  

Driver tips and drill bits to 1/4" always available. 

Larger bits on the work bench. 

Hole saws to 2 1/2".   Larger hole saws, rough on drill motors, IMO.  

Safety meeting of day.  Know your limits, and abilities.  Eye protect a must.  

I'm for screws for layout building also. I have two DeWalt cordless drills (12v and 18v), that are always nearby.
I'm also an electrician and have been using cordless tools for over 35 years going back to my first Makita pistol grip 9v drill (still have it, still works). The multi-tool kits sold at the big retailers are great if you are just getting started.
 @Mike CT  My corded 3/4 HP Milwaukee drill was for the big stuff. I also have a nice Metabo 1/2" hammer drill for hole saws and light duty masonry drilling.

I have a few pneumatic nail guns and mostly use them around the house for trim and case work. I don't use them too often so I bought them at Harbor Freight. Nails and brads have a coating on them that tends to stick to wood when they are driven. Very hard to remove without collateral damage.

Screws have threads and drills have reverse on them for a reason.

Bob

Overwhelmingly, I use screws and recommend them.  But there is a place where nails, brads actually, are useful.  That is in the placement of Vinylbed (or its newer variant Flexxbex) sub-roadbed.  There I use brads, a hammer, and a nail set.  I would love to be able to do that quickly, without risking nearby track with multiple hammer blows to small target (the nail set).  Any recommendations?

Thanks,

George

I prefer to screw stuff together, if there's ever a chance I may someday disassemble it for various reasons.  However, I also have an 18-gauge pneumatic nail gun that I also use occasionally, that greatly speeds up assembly time for certain things.  Picked it up several years ago at Harbor Freight Tools for next to nothing, plus a box of every length nail and staple offered for it.

For layout construction use, I almost always screw framework, leg, and brace assemblies together.  But depending on the situation, I may elect to nail down plywood table surfaces as opposed to screwing them down.  Especially if I choose to glue items together (that has included occasional small framing members, too), then nailing them makes far more sense.  It's goes much faster and easier than drilling and screwing.

I see where some folks build L-girders by gluing and screwing the members together, waiting for the glue to dry, then going back through and removing the screws.  That's certainly doable, but if one has an air nailer handy, they could simply glue and nail the members together and not have to worry about removing the nails. At the same time the L-girders would be almost immediately usable.

Paul, those were my thoughts also.  I have always used screws for constructing layouts but had in mind the ease of making L girders and attaching small pieces like facia and trim that are part of layout building. And as you mentioned the same goes for table surfaces.   I was looking for advice before I purchased a nailer.  I have heard that the battery operated ones are slow and prone to jamming.  I've seen some Porter package deals on pancake compressors and air nailers.  I have a world of tools already, a nailer just wasn't one of them and its seemd like a good addition to the arsenal.  Thank you everyone for your advice and your cautions.  This is what this forum is all about. 

Earl        

Earl, I forgot to mention another cordless option.  My brother bought this Ryobi finish nailer.  We used it last year for base & case all over this house including hanging 10 doors.  It never missed a beat.  I'm not a Ryobi man myself but that thing worked well.  Good luck.

I agree with everyone that has suggested the use of screws.  Right or wrong I live and die using drywall screws for my train tables.  If you are just starting with a new layout, I can not impress, especially if you will be doing the construction yourself, obtaining a good assortment of clamps.  I always found myself at the opposite end of a piece of 8' 1x something.  Clamping one end while working with the other end will save on the use of cuss words.  Specifically hand clamps. 

Also, Nails will start working there way out after time. 

Hi Bill,

I am not an advocate of using nails on train tables as discussed above.  However I have done a great deal of framing in my lifetime and I can assure you that one of the attributes of nails used in Nail guns is they are coated with a glue.  The hi-speed that a nail from a gun being injected into wood melts the glue and then the glue sets.  I can assure you that a framing nail set with a gun is close to impossible to be extracted unless using a standard crow bar.  That is my experience anyway.

Most of my nail guns are Hitachi/Metabo. They are great tools and the framing nailers shoot a good range of nail sizes to make them useful for framing and decking work.

I bought one to reinstall baseboard (apprx 800') when remodeling the house and I bought a brad nail gun to remodel some cabinets. Haven't used either since, but they do make a job go fast. Don't think I would use them much on layout benchwork.

I use both, screws mostly, but the air nailer works better for the facia boards.  I used porter cable air guns.

@RSJB18 posted:

I'm for screws for layout building also. I have two DeWalt cordless drills (12v and 18v), that are always nearby.
I'm also an electrician and have been using cordless tools for over 35 years going back to my first Makita pistol grip 9v drill (still have it, still works). The multi-tool kits sold at the big retailers are great if you are just getting started.
 @Mike CT  My corded 3/4 HP Milwaukee drill was for the big stuff. I also have a nice Metabo 1/2" hammer drill for hole saws and light duty masonry drilling.  .................................................................

Bob

Usually these larger drills come with operational warnings.    Safety meeting of the day.  They can brake bones.  

A two speed drill.  There is a lot of torque used in low.  Small black handle/manual switch, top of picture, switches between the two speeds.   The drill also reverses, lower electrical switch, on the red handle. 

Open auger bits clear chips/cut hole debris, much better than standard wood bits.  IMO, Mike CT

I have this one Mike. 900 RPM on high speed and a 1" nail eater bit can chew through 2x4's in no time.

yes- the utmost respect must be given to the ability of these to snap a wrist.

Bob

We tried both. Then had to move something. Lost all the time saved and more.

Nails are forbidden. Do not bring them into the train room.

Yes, screws for main construction but nothing wrong with using a nail gun for the edging. I use 1/8" luan plywood cut 6" tall for my edging and the nail gun made the work go fast and easy. I already had a "hot dog" compressor, so my choice was air and, at the time, electrics were just getting going. If you already have a compressor, I would stick with air. If not, I would consider an electric, depending on price and your future anticipated use. I have an inexpensive Rigid (HD house brand) finish air nailer which suits my needs. It will shoot anything from a medium brad to a 2.5" finish nail.

In addition to edging, the nail gun is also useful to temporarily attach or hold something in place (especially if you're working alone) that will be permanently screwed in later.

I have Ryobi one tools (cause the batteries have been great).  I have a finish nailer and a brad nailer (among many others) and I can say that 1) the chance that the nail will go in straight and to the set depth is MUCH higher than a hammer and 2) that with the ribs and the glue on the fasteners 10 minutes or so after inserting them it is almost impossible to get them out.

Having said that, I'm the the screw crowd.  A battery drywall screw gun has a colllar that keeps the screw centered and the depth set to increase the chance that the screw will end up where you expected it.  Also, if not doing drywall I use deck screws.  They are either coated or stainless to fasten wood to wood and are designed to last a long time out in the weather.  The coated ones can be difficult to remove if the coating is also used to hold them in place.