Not really too hard. Pretty easy if you have alligator clip jumpers. Hardest part is usually having or stacking the batteries. (fresh 9v is my go to or a lantern batt.  @6v or two 6v - to + for 12v makes it easy...( a car battery etc )

Scrap wire inserted into the plug temporarily etc.... You just need to verify the motor spins ok for now. Then  the multi-meter, and maybe soldering iron gets put to use for board exploration ( don't panic! For simplicities sake, the diodes are just a one way check  valves, transistors just tiny relays, and capacitors a holding tank.) 

None of it is really hard, it just gets complicated because there is a lot of items. Focus on the basics and the finer detail can be learned later. It's all pretty logical; and the more basics you learn ,the more you'll realize it.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Ameens "lost post" is right. The "remove one wire" bit was before I saw for sure the motor had a plug.  The goal was isolating the motor.  

Isolating items for tests you can leave at least one connection in place. But two or more in place may lead in a circle thru other items, to the other leg(s) giving false reads (or in this case short out in the board before the motor can even try to use the power)

It depends on how things are connected. Some times it isn't needed, but you have to look and check.

 Mostly it's just as easy to pull a leg or two off the board once the iron is warmed up. 

 And while on my mind, solder wont stick to stainless steel. So stainless tools are my preference. My best come from manicure kits. But the fishing box, the dentist and doc.s all contributed too 😁.  Even SS tweezers work out well. Zircon encrusted is ok too. 😏 (it's not just for dental floss harvesting from your pygmy pony's saddle anymore 🙃)

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Adriatic posted:

Ameens "lost post" is right. The "remove one wire" bit was before I saw for sure the motor had a plug.  The goal was isolating the motor.  

Isolating items for tests you can leave at least one connection in place. But two or more in place may lead in a circle thru other items, to the other leg(s) giving false reads (or in this case short out in the board before the motor can even try to use the power)

It depends on how things are connected. Some times it isn't needed, but you have to look and check.

 Mostly it's just as easy to pull a leg or two off the board once the iron is warmed up. 

 And while on my mind, solder wont stick to stainless steel. So stainless tools are my preference. My best come from manicure kits. But the fishing box, the dentist and doc.s all contributed too 😁.  Even SS tweezers work out well. Zircon encrusted is ok too. 😏 (it's not just for dental floss harvesting from your pygmy pony's saddle anymore 🙃)

Ok now that I at least know what’s going on what should I do first and where do I get the tools needed. I want to take this step by step so the first step and stuff needed to complete the first step 

TheRoyalHudson988 posted:
Ok now that I at least know what’s going on what should I do first and where do I get the tools needed. I want to take this step by step so the first step and stuff needed to complete the first step 

You will need to raise the engine from the track in a way where it still gets power yet it does not move. Like this:

If you don't want to bother buying these track rollers, use alligator clips and clip them on the motor leads. Like this:

Cut one of the wires that go from the electronics board to the motor to ensure you don't short out the board. Assure you cut the wire in a manner that allows for easy reconnection. Cut the wire in halfway, or if you can solder, rip it off the motor end. Make sure that the motor is isolated from all the other components.

No electricity from your test setup should go to any other item on your layout. This includes the transformer, the track, the electronics board, and the smoke unit.

Next, get a 9v battery and connect the two alligator clips to the motor and see if it rotates. This should look just like the setup in the picture above, except there should be a 9v battery instead of those two small batteries, and the wood is unnecessary. If you can get your hands on a DC transformer that would be even better since 10v - 15v dc will be even better. Don't give up if the 9v doesn't move cause it to rotate since it is very likely it is not enough power.

Note: You don't have to rip out the motor when you do this, just make sure the motor is isolated.

This operation will require some electrical know how, but it is relatively easy to master, and it will help you in the long run, if and when other more complicated things need repair. If you have any questions make sure to ask them before you test since not knowing what to do can cause a lot of damage to the engine.

Sorry if this all sounds scary, it really is not, but I want to make sure safety is put first and that you don't lose an engine.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

Yes, it will. The motor in most modern O-Scale equipment runs on DC the electronic board changes the current that comes from your transformer from AC to DC so that the motor can run. If you apply AC directly to the motor that guarantees your motor will burn out.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

Yes, it will. The motor in most modern O-Scale equipment runs on DC the electronic board changes the current that comes from your transformer from AC to DC so that the motor can run. If you apply AC directly to the motor that guarantees your motor will burn out.

But my motor doesn’t work at all so what will this do?

Unless you've tested the motor with this same method, we can't tell for certain whether it's broken or not without bypassing the electronics board. The board may have a burnt component, which is why we want to test the motor directly so that we can narrow down what to replace.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

Late to this thread but Trainz has Lionel part 6208613103, the reverse unit for the Docksider, in stock for $23.99. See https://www.trainz.com/product...e-unit-pcb-docksider

swede

After posting, I tried the link and it didn't work. I then went to the Trainz website and searched for "Lionel 6208613103 Reverse Unit PCB /Docksider" and was able to get to the proper ad. 

rrswede posted:

Late to this thread but Trainz has Lionel part 6208613103, the reverse unit for the Docksider, in stock for $23.99. See https://www.trainz.com/product...e-unit-pcb-docksider

swede

Yeah, this is the route that will most likely be taken. We just want to make sure that it is the board and not the motor.

@TheRoyalHudson988 Yes, the motor is connected by a plug so you won't have to cut anything. Just make sure that the motor is isolated from the board.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

I agree with testing of the motor before making any purchase. Although I have not had the experience, there have been instances when the motor failed or was in failure and caused the board to fail. Mosfets can get extremely hot. The fact that the motor can be isolated by disconnecting a plug makes the testing that much easier.

If TRH988 does not have access to a DC power source to test the motor, or want to rig up a DC battery source as suggested, a spare DC phone charger or something similar can be used.

swede

rrswede posted:

Late to this thread but Trainz has Lionel part 6208613103, the reverse unit for the Docksider, in stock for $23.99. See https://www.trainz.com/product...e-unit-pcb-docksider

swede

After posting, I tried the link and it didn't work. I then went to the Trainz website and searched for "Lionel 6208613103 Reverse Unit PCB /Docksider" and was able to get to the proper ad. 

Now way you actually found a part? Wow I thought they stopped I’m so happy. 😃

AmeenTrainGuy posted:
rrswede posted:

Late to this thread but Trainz has Lionel part 6208613103, the reverse unit for the Docksider, in stock for $23.99. See https://www.trainz.com/product...e-unit-pcb-docksider

swede

Yeah, this is the route that will most likely be taken. We just want to make sure that it is the board and not the motor.

@TheRoyalHudson988 Yes, the motor is connected by a plug so you won't have to cut anything. Just make sure that the motor is isolated from the board.

Ok so I just in plug it to separate it right? Just asking so it doesn’t break anymore than it needs to

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

Unless you've tested the motor with this same method, we can't tell for certain whether it's broken or not without bypassing the electronics board. The board may have a burnt component, which is why we want to test the motor directly so that we can narrow down what to replace.

Ok I understand 

Time vs effort, at $24 I'd strongly consider that board. (after your confirmation of the motor not being damaged -the possible root cause for board issues). You may need both motor and board, save on shipping finding out now😉

After finding a bad motor, you may find the board still works. Scorched parts may or may not lead long lives after an overheating it's hard to say for sure.

Other engine boards controlling dc motors in other loco types may fit, and be a better choice, better motor responses, better sounds etc..  But the price of those will usually be higher.     The lowest buck repair is the bridge rectifier, but, no dirrection change (except adding a sw. on loco), and possibly no sounds (depends on sound board and how it functions, as stand alone or how its tied to the main board beyond a simple power feed.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





  • So unplug the motor, jack up the engine by the ends so wheels can spin or lay it on its side, jump 9-15v dc power to the motor plug. Also turn it by hand at the flywheel feeling for tiny parts inside clicking or hitting vs smoothness . It may encounter some magnetic pull in spots too, that would be normal. Clicking and sharp hang ups  of mechanical issues inside would not be normal. (brush arms)
  • to check very well, if you use a power supply and run it for while jacked up that's even better. 
  • Why-Sometimes brush arms can seem ok, but change shape once things warm up causing mechanical issues inside  the can motor. Rare but happens.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Don't toss the old board if you buy another. Other things can be used off of it eventually, or it may be repairable as a spare, or possibly even "hopped up" so it becomes better than the originals. Three options of three price ranges and three periods of time.... how fast you want it done is a factor too.  Mostly folks want it done yesterday. I usually am happy with "eventually" and learning a thing or two.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Adriatic posted:

Don't toss the old board if you buy another. Other things can be used off of it eventually, or it may be repairable as a spare, or possibly even "hopped up" so it becomes better than the originals. Three options of three price ranges and three periods of time.... how fast you want it done is a factor too.  Mostly folks want it done yesterday. I usually am happy with "eventually" and learning a thing or two.

What about those ERR boards can I just use that or is that just for sound only 

TheRoyalHudson988 posted:
Adriatic posted:

Don't toss the old board if you buy another. Other things can be used off of it eventually, or it may be repairable as a spare, or possibly even "hopped up" so it becomes better than the originals. Three options of three price ranges and three periods of time.... how fast you want it done is a factor too.  Mostly folks want it done yesterday. I usually am happy with "eventually" and learning a thing or two.

What about those ERR boards can I just use that or is that just for sound only 

Yes, you can use those, although that will cost more. If you are looking for coupler, sound, light, smoke, and motor control, prepare to spend around $200. I would just go for the original board must more cost effective, unless you specifically want TMCC or cruise control.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

AmeenTrainGuy posted:
TheRoyalHudson988 posted:
Adriatic posted:

Don't toss the old board if you buy another. Other things can be used off of it eventually, or it may be repairable as a spare, or possibly even "hopped up" so it becomes better than the originals. Three options of three price ranges and three periods of time.... how fast you want it done is a factor too.  Mostly folks want it done yesterday. I usually am happy with "eventually" and learning a thing or two.

What about those ERR boards can I just use that or is that just for sound only 

Yes, you can use those, although that will cost more. If you are looking for coupler, sound, light, smoke, and motor control, prepare to spend around $200. I would just go for the original board must more cost effective, unless you specifically want TMCC or cruise control.

I’m going to be moving to TMCC and legacy soon I mean I have the things needed to to that. But I’m just gonna keep her in conventional just for a little longer until that big day comes. By the way do they sell O gauge locomotive rollers on amazon?

That tool will help you countless of times. The more tools you have the better.

The next step requires you to isolate the motor electronically. Make sure the board and the motor are unplugged form each other. We don't want to ruin the board trying to test the motor. Once done you will have to find some alligator clips or a solid pair of wires. 

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

That tool will help you countless of times. The more tools you have the better.

The next step requires you to isolate the motor electronically. Make sure the board and the motor are unplugged form each other. We don't want to ruin the board trying to test the motor. Once done you will have to find some alligator clips or a solid pair of wires. 

So do I just unplug it with my hands or do I need something special so I don’t break it 

TheRoyalHudson988 posted:

So do I just unplug it with my hands or do I need something special so I don’t break it 

Use your hands to delicately remove the plug. Do not use the wires to pull on the plug. Make sure you grasp the plug itself and tug gently. 

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

AmeenTrainGuy posted:
TheRoyalHudson988 posted:

So do I just unplug it with my hands or do I need something special so I don’t break it 

Use your hands to delicately remove the plug. Do not use the wires to pull on the plug. Make sure you grasp the plug itself and tug gently. 

Before I go ahead and do that just double checking. Are you sure I use my hands because that sounds a little scary😰😨

Make sure power is off to the entire layout. Use your hands gently and try to release all the static in your hands by touching a metal surface before pulling it the plug out. It shouldn't be too scary, and you should get used to it. You will be doing this a lot more in the future if you want to further your reach in this wonderful hobby. 

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

Make sure power is off to the entire layout. Use your hands gently and try to release all the static in your hands by touching a metal surface before pulling it the plug out. It shouldn't be too scary, and you should get used to it. You will be doing this a lot more in the future if you want to further your reach in this wonderful hobby. 

It sounds less scarier then it was before you explained it and thank you for doing that . And I want to make a business on doing these type of things so it looks like I must do this. 

Is that really bare wire at the connector?  If those two touch, it would likely take out the reverse board!

Attachments

Photos (1)

Test the motor using a 9v battery. Connect the two wires from the battery to the two wires on that motor. Make sure the two wires do not touch in any way. Keep the engine on the rollers and check whether the motor spins. We need to make sure the motor runs, otherwise, you need to replace the motor, not the board.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

See how the insulation is stripped from the wire towards the plug? That's quite dangerous to the board and the motor. It could be the reason why it's malfunctioning. If it's been like this for 12 years, that's most likely why your engine stopped working.

~ Ameen(formally known as AmeenTrainGuy)

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