Great looking carpentry!
Peter
Looks great, Chris! Are you putting cleats in at the top of the risers? It looks like not. I have read some folks do that so you aren't drilling down parallel into the grain of the riser. I don't think it is necessary if you drill a pilot hole so the riser doesn't split. Any thoughts on that from anyone?
3/32" predrilled pilot hole with a #1 square drive trim screw for end grain attachment works for me.
For inclined risers I chop saw the mounting face of the cleats to match the grade angle so as not to pull a flat spot. The flat spot can manifest it's self as a very slight vertical "S" curve. When a loco under strain hits a flat spot it can stall on the subsequent "S" bump as the incline continues.
That is with average quality 1/2". You will not flex 3/4" Birch. Even at that, when not angle cutting riser cleats consider toeing in your screw into the high corner of the cleat.
Tom Tee,
That sounds good. Avoiding the flat spot is something that many modelers would overlook! I had forgotten about it until you brought it up. I would probably have cut and secured a bunch of risers, then realized I went through the same problem on my last layout. I certainly can learn from mistakes, then forget and have to relearn all over again. Thank you!!
MaxSouthOz posted:"still a lot to do" The Master of Understatement, Chris.
But I still reckon that this part is one of the most enjoyable.
Ha ha....yeah just a bit of an understatement...
Mark Boyce posted:Looks great, Chris! Are you putting cleats in at the top of the risers? It looks like not. I have read some folks do that so you aren't drilling down parallel into the grain of the riser. I don't think it is necessary if you drill a pilot hole so the riser doesn't split. Any thoughts on that from anyone?
Thank you Mark, no I am not using cleats. I first make sure that the top of the riser is perfectly flush with the bottom of the sub roadbed and then I pre-drill with a countersinking bit and when driving the screws I make sure to just snug up the screws, you don't want to over tighten them and create a depression. With using the 3/4 sanded-ply and pre drilling I am not having any problems this way. And also as Tom has stated above, cutting your risers to match the incline is a great idea, you always want to have the top of that riser matching up to the sub roadbed perfectly to avoid flat spots/valleys that can occur.
Peter- Thank you..I enjoy the carpentry part of the build a lot.
Chris,
Excellent! Once I thought about it, I never saw the need for the cleats; but I am no carpenter either. I always drilled with a countersink bit in the past. I know some folks have used drywall screws, and didn't bother countersinking holes. To get the screwtop flush, I wonder if that pulls the roadbed down a little too tight as you warned against.
Mark Boyce posted:Chris,
I know some folks have used drywall screws, and didn't bother countersinking holes. To get the screwtop flush, I wonder if that pulls the roadbed down a little too tight as you warned against.
On my old layout in areas that I had used 1/2" ply that is exactly what happened, it basically "cupped" a small area around the screw head but that said I also didn't pay much attention to making sure the tops of the risers were level at that time 
. This time around I chose 3/4" ply which is much stronger as you know, and that coupled with pre-drilling and countersinking and insuring a level top to my risers has given me a perfectly flat sub roadbed surface that is properly supported and will allow me to run my wiring in a very easy to reach location. That 3/4 ply weighs just slightly less than a 59' Cadillac but it was worth it to me.
I'm blown away by your progress. Really enjoying this thread and learning a lot.
Thank you.
Yes Chris that confirms what I was thinking. Buy the '59 Cadillac for good roadbed! :-)
Thanks guys.
Mark if I'm ever able to buy a 59 caddy it won't be for roadbed....
Chris, a thought if I may. looking at your shelf frame work was a flash back for me. i was requested to rewire an existing layout with shelves positioned such as yours will be. My first thought was, 'nice". but I soon soured on them. The shelves were somewhat OK for working in one static place, but them were a real restriction for following or pulling wire. Plus they required my back to assume uncomfortable (READ PAINFUL) positions getting in and out and I could not use my rolling chair.
For under layout storage I use stackable shelving with custom cut pillars to efficiently use the vertical space on each level sitting on furniture rollers so as to provide a clear floor space for under layout access. 4 pieces of 1 1/2" dowel available in 1' increments at HD act as a male plug to hold the plastic tubes on the dollies.
I really like your removable foam panel idea in the foreground.
The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed. That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.
Consider using deck construction screws instead of drywall screws. Drywall screws can snap making adjustments a pain.
Tom Tee posted:The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed. That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.
Tom, I've had to move entire risers so cleats are at least something to consider. Chris's layout plan looks nice and simple and on one level so his risk of this would be way less than my situation. Like you mentioned, I also put every shelf stack on wheels and has saved me many times.
Chris, it looks like great progress. You'll be ballasting track in no time. Thanks for sharing all of this with us.
Tom and Christopher,
Great advice from you both that makes good sense to me. Yes, I forgot about driving the screws from underneath!! Thank you!!
Tom Tee posted:Chris, a thought if I may. looking at your shelf frame work was a flash back for me. i was requested to rewire an existing layout with shelves positioned such as yours will be. My first thought was, 'nice". but I soon soured on them. The shelves were somewhat OK for working in one static place, but them were a real restriction for following or pulling wire. Plus they required my back to assume uncomfortable (READ PAINFUL) positions getting in and out and I could not use my rolling chair.
For under layout storage I use stackable shelving with custom cut pillars to efficiently use the vertical space on each level sitting on furniture rollers so as to provide a clear floor space for under layout access. 4 pieces of 1 1/2" dowel available in 1' increments at HD act as a male plug to hold the plastic tubes on the dollies.
I really like your removable foam panel idea in the foreground.
Hi Tom,
The storage shelving that you saw in my earlier photos is only for that area, the rest of the layout that will incorporate additional storage will strictly be for my engines and rolling stock and will only be built deep enough to hold those and as such I will be building those very differently....you'll see when I get to that point...
As for the wiring.... Removable sections of scenery at junction points, turnouts and for access to the tortoise switch machines ect where needed ......and for the rest of the wiring....well lets just say that I have a plan....I could tell you but.....
Tom Tee posted:The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed. That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.
Consider using deck construction screws instead of drywall screws. Drywall screws can snap making adjustments a pain.
When I attached my risers I made sure that the screws were outside the profile of the track and ties so if in the future the need comes to move a riser or replace one all that will be needed will be to remove a small amount of ballast say the size of a quarter...ish in order to unscrew it from above or to install one in a new area and so on, and in order to keep track of where those screws/risers are after the scenery goes in I've taken a photo of each and every one and I am printing all of these out to be kept in a binder down with the layout. As for adjusting the grades once the track is in and I'm testing everything, it's no harder for me to unscrew the riser from the bench work and adjust up or down then to unscrew from the bench work and/or the cleat. If an adjustment is needed down the road for some reason after the scenery is in, the same applies, unscrew the riser from the bench work and raise/lower as needed. If I need to install/move a riser the same applies....not really a big problem.
Oh I also don't use drywall screws, I use deck screws.
christopher N&W posted:Tom, I've had to move entire risers so cleats are at least something to consider. Chris's layout plan looks nice and simple and on one level so his risk of this would be way less than my situation. Like you mentioned, I also put every shelf stack on wheels and has saved me many times.
Chris, it looks like great progress. You'll be ballasting track in no time. Thanks for sharing all of this with us.
Thanks Chris, yes the layout is a single level.
Chris, You have the assembly of your roadbed and wiring well thought out! I think it will work quite well!!
Mark Boyce posted:Chris, You have the assembly of your roadbed and wiring well thought out! I think it will work quite well!!
Well time will tell... But I hope so.
