New Layout Build- Final tie coloring added (Pics added 4-15-17)

Chris.

I'll say one thing you won't have any worries about standing on it!

Good solid job the way baseboards should be built. Thanks for posting. Roo.

Great work!

It seems that carpentry has no secret for you!!

Impatient to see the progress on this layout!!

jpv in France

Looking good!

Peter

Very nice work Chris. 

Looks great and I can't wait to see more pics. Hand laid track again?

It's a nice job your doing Chris! Bench work is a fun phase for me...always enjoyed it even back in the 1960's when my Father helped me build still using a handsaw and common straight slot screws and a hand screw driver to put it all together...the good old days

Good Luck!

Bob

Congratulations!  Getting started is the hardest part.

How did you find that many straight 2x4's?

Cheers,

Ed

Fantastic!  Assuming a ten foot width, a quick guesstimate suggests a total layout perimeter of 132 feet or 1.2 O Gauge miles.  What seems like a large space shrinks rapidly when attempting a quasi-prototypical layout.  Please show us your track plan!

Hmm, nice and strong! Now, for some termites.....

Thanks guys!

Malcolm- All of the turnouts will be and a good portion of the rest, some will be Atlas or ME.

Bob-I know what you mean, I enjoy it also.

Ed-I have a buddy that's a general contractor...

Rapid Transit Holmes-Thank you, the width at the far end is 12 feet, length is 44 feet. There is also another portion that will be 22'X12", the layout is a "L" shape.  I will put up a track plan here when I get a chance, I put it up in another thread I started a couple weeks ago...I just hand drew one which works for my mind...

Chris,

   Very nice sir, drive on, with your construction!  Wish I had that kind of space to leave up a permanent layout!

PCRR/Dave

Chris, the benchwork is fantastic!  Keep the photos coming!

Thanks guys...heading down to plug away at some more of it.

Chris,

Fantastic benchwork!! I have a 50ftx17ft area with water heater,furnace in the way,yes sump pump area too. The full area width is 25ft,but it has a 4 tier shelving all the way around. So far,I'm working on one 50ft run. My wife has the rest of the area pretty full as we had to have a place for the things from her house which also includes the living room,garage,& most other rooms. 

O scale,in my eyes,fills that area up pretty fast. JMO.

Al Hummel

Looks great so far. I will be following along to watch your progress. I like these build threads.

Alan Hummel posted:

Chris,

Fantastic benchwork!! I have a 50ftx17ft area with water heater,furnace in the way,yes sump pump area too. The full area width is 25ft,but it has a 4 tier shelving all the way around. So far,I'm working on one 50ft run. My wife has the rest of the area pretty full as we had to have a place for the things from her house which also includes the living room,garage,& most other rooms. 

O scale,in my eyes,fills that area up pretty fast. JMO.

Al Hummel

Thank you, 50 feet....now that's a great space to work with!. ... I know what you mean about the Mrs. mine seems to acquire things at a rapid rate...  You are right about O scale...it eats space fast, but I love it.  

rtr12 posted:

Looks great so far. I will be following along to watch your progress. I like these build threads.

Thanks, I'll post updates often, I always like build threads to.  I always like seeing how folks get to the finished product...not that they are ever finished but you know.... 

Great start Chris. When you get to wiring let me know :-)

N&W Class J posted:

rtr12 posted:

Looks great so far. I will be following along to watch your progress. I like these build threads.

Thanks, I'll post updates often, I always like build threads to.  I always like seeing how folks get to the finished product...not that they are ever finished but you know.... 

Sounds great, I will be following along. I agree with your thoughts on the build threads too! Plus, I learn a lot along the way. Good luck!

The Bench work reminds me of the "Great Southern" Lorell Joiner's masterpiece. I was a great fan of his Railroad still have all his articles right back to 1977 showing how he built his Bench work. Look forward to your progress in the future.

Roo.

railroad-guy posted:

Great start Chris. When you get to wiring let me know :-)

Oh you better believe I will.

Ok guys, today's project was building the swing out section.  I began by building another section of bench work on the far wall that I would use as the pivot point for the swing out.  Once that was done I built the actual swinging section and it was attached to the fixed bench work with a piano hinge, to carry the weight of the section itself I added legs with wheels attached to allow for it to swing around.  I need to add bracing to those legs for stability and tweak things a bit but overall it functions perfectly.  I built it this way as it was easier for 1 thing and 2 fits with the open grid idea just fine.  More updates coming.....  I also will make a video soon showing this opening/closing ect.

Piano Hinge attached to next section of bench work. 

New bench work section with swing out built and in place, this is all open grid and the track will be on risers on the bench work and swing out section.

My old bent level represents loosely where the track will be, below it eventually will be a field/pond. 

A shot from the new section looking back 

Same view slightly different angle

Partially open, legs are in temporarily for a test, I will fit them properly tomorrow and add bracing to them.

And open, when the 2X4's are gone it will be able to swing a bit further, the legs are just in there temporarily for a test, I will fit them properly tomorrow and add bracing.

Another over all shot

Thanks Tom,

If I need to ever make any changes by the circuit breakers I will be able to without too much trouble. There is more room there now than what the pictures appear to show.  I had to have enough room for me and I'm not a small guy....I like my cheeseburgers....

Hey Chris I bet it works kinda like this 

Clem k

Yes, it sure does.  

This is great seeing you back on track again. The quality of the benchwork looks great. I'm sure the rest will be great as well judging from your previous layouts.

Looking great Chris!!

christopher N&W posted:

This is great seeing you back on track again. The quality of the benchwork looks great. I'm sure the rest will be great as well judging from your previous layouts.

Thank you Chris.  I am really excited about it all!  

Thank you BOBBYD. 

TomTee- The National Electrical Code mandates a 36" X 36" clear space, from the floor to above the panel, for clearance to work in the panel. Not a problem if it's less, unless you are having work inspected.

Chris- looking good so far.

Bob

RSJB18 posted:

Chris- looking good so far.

Bob

 

Thank you Bob.

Here are a few more update pics, these are from the lower portion of the L.  Bracing has been added for the back drop and more will follow.  I will add a few more photos later this evening.

Just a few more...bench work is 98% completed.  On to finishing the masonite for the back drop and the lift up tomorrow. 

What a super space, grand progress!

Looks like we get to live vicariously through Chris.  Such is the plight of an O Scaler with no available space.

Thanks for sharing Chris.

Jay

Looking good.

If for any reason you think you ever might want that ceiling to "disappear" by painting it black, now would be  a good time.  Don't ask me how I know this <g>.

...gregg

Thanks guys.

Hokie71- I'm glad I have the space, but it will fill up quick.

JAYC- I do that every time I see some of the other excellent layouts on this forum...

Gregg, thank you...I'm going to leave the ceiling alone, black would look good but the Mrs would tend to disagree with that....

'Fascinated by this benchwork! very fine and accurate; a great work! 

jpv in France

Thank you.  The bench work on my old layout was OK but the height was wrong  (for me anyway) and it was pieced together, these sections may be separated if need be.  And by comparison this one is much nicer overall.  I'm putting the rest of the masonite up now and then I'll be moving on to cutting plywood for the sub roadbed.

Finished up around the dang Lally column....I swear there is always 1 ya know...  bench work is complete, lift up section is built I just need to put it in place tomorrow.  Just a few more pics of the corner by the column and a long shot...thank fully there is plenty of room for the track to pass.

Time to start cleaning up so I have room to work on the plywood.....

Really looks nice! Can't wait to see it with the plywood installed. It's going to be a nice big layout! 

Oh yeah...it's big....  it's going to be open grid for most of the layout with plywood subroadbed supported by risers for grade/elevation changes. And more interesting scenery.  And thank you very much.

I love this part of the building of a layout. 

I enjoy it also, it went very quick.  Having a plan really helps things move along.

Chris as a retired contractor I must say that I'm really impressed with the quality of your bench work.  What are your plans if any for the ceiling?

wild mary posted:

Chris as a retired contractor I must say that I'm really impressed with the quality of your bench work.  What are your plans if any for the ceiling?

Thank you very much.  At this point I haven't made up my mind yet on the ceiling, I would like to paint it black but the Mrs. isn't too crazy about that idea.   

I had no problem convincing the Mrs for my black ceiling joists - she had already painted the walls of our bedroom black .

If you are really interested in painting and need to convince the Mrs, search for "black basement ceiling" on Google and click on the images tab.  It's amazing how good the family rooms and living areas look in a basement.

Here's a shot of mine looking down the track with some of the ceiling in view.  It really just disappears and does not cause any closed in feeling.  It actually makes the room feel taller.  Mine is about 60% complete (all hand brushed after I laid the floor and built the layout -   NOT a fun project).  The best solution would have been to spray it before the layout and the floor.

N&W Class J posted:

wild mary posted:

Chris as a retired contractor I must say that I'm really impressed with the quality of your bench work.  What are your plans if any for the ceiling?

Thank you very much.  At this point I haven't made up my mind yet on the ceiling, I would like to paint it black but the Mrs. isn't too crazy about that idea.   

Chris I've been married for 52 yrs today.  The secret to getting your wife to come around to your way of thinking is to make it appear as though it's her idea.  Time to get creative.  I've had plenty of practice.

Gregg Laiben posted:

I had no problem convincing the Mrs for my black ceiling joists - she had already painted the walls of our bedroom black .

Really?  Sounds interesting...I like it.

If you are really interested in painting and need to convince the Mrs, search for "black basement ceiling" on Google and click on the images tab.  It's amazing how good the family rooms and living areas look in a basement.

I will do that just so she can see the end result...great idea by the way.

Here's a shot of mine looking down the track with some of the ceiling in view.  It really just disappears and does not cause any closed in feeling.  It actually makes the room feel taller.  Mine is about 60% complete (all hand brushed after I laid the floor and built the layout -   NOT a fun project).  The best solution would have been to spray it before the layout and the floor.

Yes that is exactly what I would like to do and the look that I'm after...everything up there just disappears and lets you focus down on to the layout.  Thanks for the photo that looks really nice!

wild mary posted:

Chris I've been married for 52 yrs today.  The secret to getting your wife to come around to your way of thinking is to make it appear as though it's her idea.  Time to get creative.  I've had plenty of practice.

Ha ha....that is so true.  I think I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with, I think Gregg is on to something with showing her some photos of basement ceilings and such that are already painted that way.  It's very obvious in my photos that the floor joists and duct work really stick out like a sore thumb and now is the time to paint it before I move any further, even the masonite that I have up already that is painted doesn't matter as it is just what I will be attaching my backdrops to so over spray is a non issue.....well I'm just going to have to plant the seed in a creative way and see what happens....

The only problem with that method is, once she tells me it's her idea she'll keep hounding me to get it done.  I'll think she's nagging me and think of hundreds of excuses why I can't do it.  Apparently, there's no fool proof plan when one of the duo is a fool!  No. not you Chris!!

Jay

Well the bench work is complete.  I have hung some more masonite for the back drop and built the lift up section and installed it, most of the hinges and structure will be hidden by scenery when I get to that point.  Next will be the storage shelving and hopefully painting the floor joists above.  After that I will be sanding and filling the holes in the masonite and then drawing and cutting out the plywood sub roadbed.

I see a dehumidifier in your last photo. in order for your swing away and lift up sections to stay reliably true, you'll have to ensure a low variation in the humidity level in your basement. all your lumber looks to be kiln dried so you're in a good place to start. but a good plan to deal with seasonal humidity swings is important.

great progress!

Thank you.  Yes it is kiln dried and the basement is at a consistent humidity level.  I have had lift ups on my earlier layouts and it never became an issue but thankfully it is not a "wet" basement and the dehumidifier does a great job when needed...I do  have a few spares just in case....  

Lookin' really great Chris.  I can smell the fresh cut wood from here.

Jay C posted:

The only problem with that method is, once she tells me it's her idea she'll keep hounding me to get it done.  I'll think she's nagging me and think of hundreds of excuses why I can't do it.  Apparently, there's no fool proof plan when one of the duo is a fool!  No. not you Chris!!

Jay

Jay in 52 yrs of marriage I have yet to figure out that part.

wild mary posted:

Jay C posted:

The only problem with that method is, once she tells me it's her idea she'll keep hounding me to get it done.  I'll think she's nagging me and think of hundreds of excuses why I can't do it.  Apparently, there's no fool proof plan when one of the duo is a fool!  No. not you Chris!!

Jay

Jay in 52 yrs of marriage I have yet to figure out that part.

Too funny I was going to say that I haven't figured it out either.    Well good news I just got done showing the Mrs. some pics and she actually is pretty cool with it now that she has seen the final look....shockingly..... so I have to give the credit to Gregg...thank you sir.  And now I just added another item on my to do list.....  guess I'm another fool to add to the list....lol....

Wow.  Impressive work in such a short time.  You must have a well thought out and detailed design and construction sequence.  I admire the neat and orderly progress and attention to the big picture and the details.  Love the swing out section.  Very cool.

Thank you.  I did have a plan that I worked off of but my 2 boys were a huge help with it all.  They really helped speed things along.

You've gotten a lot done. Looks great Chris. Can't wait to see the track go down.

Ralph

Chris, What you have done looks great!  Your access roll out looks simple but efficient.  I'll look forward to seeing your progress.

Ralph4014 posted:

You've gotten a lot done. Looks great Chris. Can't wait to see the track go down.

Ralph

Thanks Ralph, I'm excited as well.

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris, What you have done looks great!  Your access roll out looks simple but efficient.  I'll look forward to seeing your progress.

Thank you Mark, the roll out works very well.

Glad to have helped you convince the Mrs.   I got a quote from a pro painter to spray mine.  He was quoting 2-2.5 days of taping and wrapping every item in the basement, red paper on the floor, covering walls and about 3 hours of actual painting.  That was when I decided I would brush it myself.  That was my second mistake. 

Good luck, your work is inspiring. 

Gregg Laiben posted:

Glad to have helped you convince the Mrs.   I got a quote from a pro painter to spray mine.  He was quoting 2-2.5 days of taping and wrapping every item in the basement, red paper on the floor, covering walls and about 3 hours of actual painting.  That was when I decided I would brush it myself.  That was my second mistake. 

Good luck, your work is inspiring. 

Thank you Gregg....I'm going to spray it all after I put down my drop clothes and block off the vents ect....

Old Goat that fabric looks good also....a very simple creative idea.....

I posted a short video of the progress to date, if you like you can view it here.  Thanks guys.

I just realized you are O Scale Chris on youtube.  Really enjoy your videos, especially the FEF one you did last summer.  Can't tell you how many times I watched it!

Your bench work was done so quickly-I'm impressed!

N&W Class J postedld Goat that fabric looks good also....a very simple creative idea.....

Chris,

Forumite Cape Cod Northern did good.  The black landscaping material is ideal for basements with insulation between the ceiling joists and helps reduce airborne matter.

Keep up the good work and photos.

OG

86TA355SR posted:

I just realized you are O Scale Chris on youtube.  Really enjoy your videos, especially the FEF one you did last summer.  Can't tell you how many times I watched it!

Your bench work was done so quickly-I'm impressed!

Great catch Aaron! 

I've watched Chris's hand laid track videos a bunch of times.  Those are a great resource - thank you.  Now have to check out your weathering video for the MTH water column.

...gregg

Really nice video, Chris!  It really gave me a good idea of how much space you have and oriented me to the different views on your photos.  I'll keep watching!  I'm sorry if I missed you saying earlier, but how high is the top of the benchwork?

86TA355SR posted:

I just realized you are O Scale Chris on youtube.  Really enjoy your videos, especially the FEF one you did last summer.  Can't tell you how many times I watched it!

Your bench work was done so quickly-I'm impressed!

Thank you, that is a great engine, needless to say I will be selling it soon.  The bench work did go up fast but I had some great help from my 2 boys...really sped things up a ton.

Old Goat posted:

Chris,

Forumite Cape Cod Northern did good.  The black landscaping material is ideal for basements with insulation between the ceiling joists and helps reduce airborne matter.

Keep up the good work and photos.

OG

Yes he certainly did, and it worked perfectly....thanks again.

Gregg Laiben posted:

Great catch Aaron! 

I've watched Chris's hand laid track videos a bunch of times.  Those are a great resource - thank you.  Now have to check out your weathering video for the MTH water column.

 

...gregg

I'm really happy that you enjoyed those videos Gregg, there will be many more coming in the near future.  More on hand laying track, wiring, DCC and so on.

Mark Boyce posted:

Really nice video, Chris!  It really gave me a good idea of how much space you have and oriented me to the different views on your photos.  I'll keep watching!  I'm sorry if I missed you saying earlier, but how high is the top of the benchwork?

Thank you Mark.  That it the one thing with photos...they just don't do a good job of conveying the dimensions and orientation and such.  The top of the bench work sits right now at 49 inches for most of the bench work, but most of the track work will be on risers so the final track height will vary from say 50 inches up to 55 inches approximately.  

Chris, that's about the height I have had before and will again.  I thought something looked familiar!!

Yeah my old layout was just too low and I always felt like a bird flying over everything.

Worked on some of the storage space underneath the layout today as well as some more back drop work.

Patching some of the holes.  I'm not too worried about the final appearance as 1/3 to 1/2 of it will get covered during the scenery process and the rest with backdrops from backdrop warehouse.

Final section of masonite at this end was installed....

Painted....

Lower storage shelf framing installed...the Mrs. has a few things Aaaa Hemm to put in here...

13 years old and he's tired......

Really enjoying your progress updates and the tips.  Can't wait to see more.  

Thank you....I'm having fun.

Very tired indeed! it also shows that the pieces of wood are solid!

It's a fantastic work! 

jpv in France

jpv69 posted:

Very tired indeed! it also shows that the pieces of wood are solid!

It's a fantastic work! 

jpv in France

 

Thank you, yeah he is just exhausted...  And yeah it's solid, and frankly over built but I got the 2X4's incredibly cheap so I put them to use.  

Chris,

Thanks for the photos!  It's looking very good!  With the storage shelves, what will your approach to wiring be?  I want to use the underneath of my layout for storage, and with an open Lgirder approach, I can do a lot of wiring from above, as I did in the past.  My concern is once covered with scenery, how will I easily trouble shoot problems with storage shelves.  I have thought of making roll out pallets for storage, but don't know yet.

Mark, my guess is the shelves are spaced so he can remove enough items to then lay on the shelves when he needs to work underneath, just like you would laying on a dolly under a car. I get dizzy doing that these days, so I also intend to use some kind of rolling shelf platform if I decide to add storage.

Layout is looking good Chris, I like the storage idea, and if you ever have to trouble shoot anything you have a 13 year old to help you move somethings around.

Mark, you can build the same thing, you would just have to move everything by yourself.

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris,

Thanks for the photos!  It's looking very good!  With the storage shelves, what will your approach to wiring be?  I want to use the underneath of my layout for storage, and with an open Lgirder approach, I can do a lot of wiring from above, as I did in the past.  My concern is once covered with scenery, how will I easily trouble shoot problems with storage shelves.  I have thought of making roll out pallets for storage, but don't know yet.

Hi Mark,

          As Dave stated the shelving is spaced out so that I can lay on it if need be but the track is going to be up on risers in this area so the wiring will be done right underneath the track on the side that faces the viewing isle.  Once the scenery begins I am going to make removable sections so that I can access a big portion of the wiring in that area as well as other areas while standing or even sitting on a stool.  I am going to use pink rigid foam insulation for these panels, and while there will be some shrinkage over time I am only using it in the front where I would need to " pull it out" and there are ways to compensate for the shrinkage that will occur.  My main goal here is to be sure that I can access as much as possible on the entire layout after the scenery is in.  The insulation can be painted and carved to form some amazing terrain variations and will lend itself perfectly to my needs, it's not cheap which is why it will only be used as access panels at areas of wiring junctions and turnouts ect.

mike g. posted:

Layout is looking good Chris, I like the storage idea, and if you ever have to trouble shoot anything you have a 13 year old to help you move somethings around.

Mark, you can build the same thing, you would just have to move everything by yourself.

Thank you Mike.  The storage shelves will also be built in other areas of the layout, but in those cases it will be for storing locomotives, passenger and freight cars that are not in use and those will be just deep enough for that stuff so they will not be as deep as these storage shelves are.  I am planning on making plexi-glass "doors" to protect the equipment not in use from damage or the small hands of my nephews.  I am also going to incorporate a built in work bench area for modeling projects, weathering ect.   

N&W Class J posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris,

Thanks for the photos!  It's looking very good!  With the storage shelves, what will your approach to wiring be?  I want to use the underneath of my layout for storage, and with an open Lgirder approach, I can do a lot of wiring from above, as I did in the past.  My concern is once covered with scenery, how will I easily trouble shoot problems with storage shelves.  I have thought of making roll out pallets for storage, but don't know yet.

Hi Mark,

          As Dave stated the shelving is spaced out so that I can lay on it if need be but the track is going to be up on risers in this area so the wiring will be done right underneath the track on the side that faces the viewing isle.  Once the scenery begins I am going to make removable sections so that I can access a big portion of the wiring in that area as well as other areas while standing or even sitting on a stool.  I am going to use pink rigid foam insulation for these panels, and while there will be some shrinkage over time I am only using it in the front where I would need to " pull it out" and there are ways to compensate for the shrinkage that will occur.  My main goal here is to be sure that I can access as much as possible on the entire layout after the scenery is in.  The insulation can be painted and carved to form some amazing terrain variations and will lend itself perfectly to my needs, it's not cheap which is why it will only be used as access panels at areas of wiring junctions and turnouts ect.

Chris,

I like how you are thinking.  I actually stated something similar in the topic on my layout design which anyone can access in the link in my signature.  That is exactly what I was thinking of to make wiring access built into the scenery.  

Now all I need is a thirteen-year-old around to help with the work!    On second thought, maybe I am better by myself; we went through the thirteen-year-old stage more than once!  

Dave,

I am with you, laying on a dolly doing work is something that I'm not interested in doing anymore either.  sitting on a roll-around seat I have isn't so bad.  As you know, I want to have some shelves for extra rolling stock, so Chris' layout construction is interesting me.

Thank you both for addressing my questions.  Working together across the miles, I'm sure all of us will build better layouts than in the old days when we did all our thinking solo.

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris,

I like how you are thinking.  I actually stated something similar in the topic on my layout design which anyone can access in the link in my signature.  That is exactly what I was thinking of to make wiring access built into the scenery.  Now all I need is a thirteen-year-old around to help with the work!    On second thought, maybe I am better by myself; we went through the thirteen-year-old stage more than once!  

Dave,

I am with you, laying on a dolly doing work is something that I'm not interested in doing anymore either.  sitting on a roll-around seat I have isn't so bad.  As you know, I want to have some shelves for extra rolling stock, so Chris' layout construction is interesting me.

Thank you both for addressing my questions.  Working together across the miles, I'm sure all of us will build better layouts than in the old days when we did all our thinking solo.

Hey great minds think alike .  I just like the idea of being able to get at things later, a simple idea and it will work great for both of us.    I must say with regards to your last statement that truer words have never been spoken.  The sharing of ideas, problems, solutions and different approaches to this hobby is what makes it great, there are so many ways to build, model and problem solve.  I have no doubt that if we put our heads together we can all build some great layouts.

So great seeing you building a layout Chris! 

Industrial Models posted:

So great seeing you building a layout Chris! 

Thank you, I'm having fun with it.  I just ordered some track for the areas that I will not be hand laying and I'm working on the sub roadbed currently.

Don't forget to drill some large holes through your braces now for all the wiring we will be doing :-)

I have a plan for that, I think it will make things a bit easier...underline think.

Chris...finish off that space where you photo'ed your son laying...make it as nice as possible, and use it as a hiding place for yourself for when the little lady figures out how much this all costs. Remember the Seinfeld show, and how George built a hiding space inside his desk ...took naps in there etc...go for it buddy...

Bob

And don't forget to get a helmet if she has any rolling pins or skillets!! 

flanger posted:

Chris...finish off that space where you photo'ed your son laying...make it as nice as possible, and use it as a hiding place for yourself for when the little lady figures out how much this all costs. Remember the Seinfeld show, and how George built a hiding space inside his desk ...took naps in there etc...go for it buddy...

Bob

Ha ha....yeah tell me about it...thank god I got all the 2x4's cheap.......

rtr12 posted:

And don't forget to get a helmet if she has any rolling pins or skillets!! 

Maybe a lock on the basement door to....

Spent some time beginning to cut out the sub roadbed, much more to do and right now what I have cut out is just laying on the benchwork.  It will get put on top of the risers shortly as I wanted a nice long section for leveling/grade purposes. 

I began leveling the sub roadbed today, there is still a lot to do but I'm off to a good start...  More supports will be added since I have plenty of wood left...

"still a lot to do"     The Master of Understatement, Chris.  

But I still reckon that this part is one of the most enjoyable.

Great looking carpentry!

Peter

Looks great, Chris!  Are you putting cleats in at the top of the risers?  It looks like not.  I have read some folks do that so you aren't drilling down parallel into the grain of the riser.  I don't think it is necessary if you drill a pilot hole so the riser doesn't split.  Any thoughts on that from anyone?

3/32" predrilled pilot hole with a #1 square drive trim screw for end grain attachment works for me. 

For inclined risers I chop  saw the mounting face of the cleats to match the grade angle so as not to pull a flat spot.  The flat spot can manifest it's self as a very slight vertical "S" curve.  When a loco under strain hits a flat spot it can stall on the subsequent "S" bump as the incline continues.

That is with average quality 1/2".  You will not flex 3/4" Birch.  Even at that, when not angle cutting riser cleats consider toeing in your screw into the high corner of the cleat.

Tom Tee,

That sounds good.  Avoiding the flat spot is something that many modelers would overlook!  I had forgotten about it until you brought it up.  I would probably have cut and secured a bunch of risers, then realized I went through the same problem on my last layout.  I certainly can learn from mistakes, then forget and have to relearn all over again.  Thank you!!

MaxSouthOz posted:

"still a lot to do"     The Master of Understatement, Chris.  

But I still reckon that this part is one of the most enjoyable.

Ha ha....yeah just a bit of an understatement... 

Mark Boyce posted:

Looks great, Chris!  Are you putting cleats in at the top of the risers?  It looks like not.  I have read some folks do that so you aren't drilling down parallel into the grain of the riser.  I don't think it is necessary if you drill a pilot hole so the riser doesn't split.  Any thoughts on that from anyone?

Thank you Mark, no I am not using cleats.  I first make sure that the top of the riser is perfectly flush with the bottom of the sub roadbed and then I pre-drill with a countersinking bit and when driving the screws I make sure to just snug up the screws, you don't want to over tighten them and create a depression.  With using the 3/4 sanded-ply and pre drilling I am not having any problems this way.  And also as Tom has stated above, cutting your risers to match the incline is a great idea, you always want to have the top of that riser matching up to the sub roadbed perfectly to avoid flat spots/valleys that can occur. 

Peter-  Thank you..I enjoy the carpentry part of the build a lot.

Chris,

Excellent!  Once I thought about it, I never saw the need for the cleats; but I am no carpenter either.  I always drilled with a countersink bit in the past.  I know some folks have used drywall screws, and didn't bother countersinking holes.  To get the screwtop flush, I wonder if that pulls the roadbed down a little too tight as you warned against.

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris,

 I know some folks have used drywall screws, and didn't bother countersinking holes.  To get the screwtop flush, I wonder if that pulls the roadbed down a little too tight as you warned against.

On my old layout in areas that I had used 1/2" ply that is exactly what happened, it basically "cupped" a small area around the screw head but that said I also didn't pay much attention to making sure the tops of the risers were level at that time .  This time around I chose 3/4" ply which is much stronger as you know, and that coupled with pre-drilling and countersinking and insuring a level top to my risers has given me a perfectly flat sub roadbed surface that is properly supported and will allow me to run my wiring in a very easy to reach location.  That 3/4 ply weighs just slightly less than a 59' Cadillac but it was worth it to me.     

I'm blown away by your progress.  Really enjoying this thread and learning a lot.

Thank you.

Yes Chris that confirms what I was thinking.  Buy the '59 Cadillac for good roadbed!  :-)

Thanks guys.  

Mark if I'm ever able to buy a 59 caddy it won't be for roadbed....

Chris, a thought if I may.  looking at your shelf frame work was a flash back for me.  i was requested to rewire an existing layout with shelves positioned such as yours will be.  My first thought was, 'nice".  but I soon  soured on them.  The shelves were somewhat OK for working in one static place, but them were a real restriction for following or pulling wire.  Plus they required my back to assume uncomfortable (READ PAINFUL) positions getting in and out and I could not use my rolling chair. 

For under layout storage I use stackable shelving with custom cut pillars to efficiently use the vertical space on each level sitting on furniture rollers so as to provide a  clear floor space for under layout access.  4  pieces of 1 1/2" dowel available in 1' increments at HD  act as a male plug to hold the plastic tubes on the dollies.

I really like your removable foam panel idea in the foreground.

The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed.  That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.

Consider using deck construction screws instead of drywall screws.  Drywall screws can snap making adjustments a pain.

Tom Tee posted:

The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed.  That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.

Tom, I've had to move entire risers so cleats are at least something to consider. Chris's layout plan looks nice and simple and on one level so his risk of this would be way less than my situation. Like you mentioned, I also put every shelf stack on wheels and has saved me many times.

Chris, it looks like great progress. You'll be ballasting track in no time. Thanks for sharing all of this with us.

Tom and Christopher,

Great advice from you both that makes good sense to me.  Yes, I forgot about driving the screws from underneath!!  Thank you!!

Tom Tee posted:

Chris, a thought if I may.  looking at your shelf frame work was a flash back for me.  i was requested to rewire an existing layout with shelves positioned such as yours will be.  My first thought was, 'nice".  but I soon  soured on them.  The shelves were somewhat OK for working in one static place, but them were a real restriction for following or pulling wire.  Plus they required my back to assume uncomfortable (READ PAINFUL) positions getting in and out and I could not use my rolling chair. 

For under layout storage I use stackable shelving with custom cut pillars to efficiently use the vertical space on each level sitting on furniture rollers so as to provide a  clear floor space for under layout access.  4  pieces of 1 1/2" dowel available in 1' increments at HD  act as a male plug to hold the plastic tubes on the dollies.

I really like your removable foam panel idea in the foreground.

Hi Tom,

     The storage shelving that you saw in my earlier photos is only for that area, the rest of the layout that will incorporate additional storage will strictly be for my engines and rolling stock and will only be built deep enough to hold those and as such I will be building those very differently....you'll see when I get to that point...  As for the wiring....  Removable sections of scenery at junction points, turnouts and for access to the tortoise switch machines ect where needed ......and for the rest of the wiring....well lets just say that I have a plan....I could tell you but.....

Tom Tee posted:

The benefit of using cleats is the ability of driving screws up into the bottom of the subroadbed.  That way you will always be able to adjust the grade with out disturbing the track.

Consider using deck construction screws instead of drywall screws.  Drywall screws can snap making adjustments a pain.

When I attached my risers I made sure that the screws were outside the profile of the track and ties so if in the future the need comes to move a riser or replace one all that will be needed will be to remove a small amount of ballast say the size of a quarter...ish in order to unscrew it from above or to install one in a new area and so on, and in order to keep track of where those screws/risers are after the scenery goes in I've taken a photo of each and every one and I am printing all of these out to be kept in a binder down with the layout.   As for adjusting the grades once the track is in and I'm testing everything, it's no harder for me to unscrew the riser from the bench work and adjust up or down then to unscrew from the bench work and/or the cleat.  If an adjustment is needed down the road for some reason after the scenery is in, the same applies, unscrew the riser from the bench work and raise/lower as needed.  If I need to install/move a riser the same applies....not really a big problem.   

Oh I also don't use drywall screws, I use deck screws.

christopher N&W posted:

Tom, I've had to move entire risers so cleats are at least something to consider. Chris's layout plan looks nice and simple and on one level so his risk of this would be way less than my situation. Like you mentioned, I also put every shelf stack on wheels and has saved me many times.

Chris, it looks like great progress. You'll be ballasting track in no time. Thanks for sharing all of this with us.

Thanks Chris, yes the layout is a single level.

Chris, You have the assembly of your roadbed and wiring well thought out!  I think it will work quite well!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris, You have the assembly of your roadbed and wiring well thought out!  I think it will work quite well!!

Well time will tell...  But I hope so. 

More sub roadbed work this week, making progress steadily towards completion.   These are views looking towards what will become some type of industry..  And the curve preceding it.

Two last shots: the place where you made the video for ME flex track tool, right?

jpv in France

Great looking Chris, question- where you go over the lift up section with the 2x4 is that a small hump or is that added into the grade?

jpv69 posted:

Two last shots: the place where you made the video for ME flex track tool, right?

jpv in France

Yes it is.

mike g. posted:

Great looking Chris, question- where you go over the lift up section with the 2x4 is that a small hump or is that added into the grade?

That's just grade, I see what you're looking at but there isn't a hump there...it looks like it in the photo but it's smooth.

Thanks for the info Chris! Great job you have going there!

Looking good, Chris! Looking good! 

Nice progress Chris!

Thank you guys...

Chris:

The bench work looks like it would support an elephant.  Good work.  I notice that you have not put in a suspended ceiling.  I chose not to put one in because I had fits with rodent infestation in the previous house.  It was a little disconcerting to look up at the light panels and see chipmunks and mice running across the light panels.  A friend, with experience in the stage set business, suggested that I have all the joists painted flat black.  I followed his suggestion and hired a professional painting company to spray the ceiling.  All the bare wood seemed to disappear.  Now, unless I call their attention to it, visitors are not aware that the ceiling is unfinished.

Wes 

Yeah I had seriously considered it, but I made the command decision to not paint the ceiling.  As for the benchwork, yes indeed a elephant can sit, walk, jump stand on it without any issues...

You were in my basement and I did not paint the ceiling. I also thought about it but to be honest when running/switching or just watching you don't notice it.

railroad-guy posted:

You were in my basement and I did not paint the ceiling. I also thought about it but to be honest when running/switching or just watching you don't notice it.

I agree, I never did...it could be purple...  I just decided that I liked how bright it is in my basement and decided to leave it that way.

You are not alone, I left my ceiling in 'all natural plain wood' too. It's the 'look' I am used to seeing. 

Wes,

Did you paint the ceiling after the RR had been started?  If so, how did you protect the RR?

Thanks,

Ed

rtr12 posted:

You are not alone, I left my ceiling in 'all natural plain wood' too. It's the 'look' I am used to seeing. 

Thanks, yeah I like how bright my basement is now, but mostly I just didn't want to spend the $$$ on the paint and such.  I would rather put it towards other things like the order I need to place with ROW for more switch parts...

Well the sub roadbed is complete.  I finished it up yesterday and have spent today vacuuming up about 400lbs of saw dust.  Here are a few quick shots of the layout.  Track work will begin this week.  I'll put up some shots of the other end in a while.

looking better and better.

Keep going.. I can almost hear the trains coming....

Brian

Thanks Brian.

Here are some pics of the other end of the layout.....

Chris...I see about a dozen sheet of plywood stacked on edge there...where's that destined for?

Bob

Chris,

You have certainly made great progress!  You will have a nice long run for trains!

flanger posted:

Chris...I see about a dozen sheet of plywood stacked on edge there...where's that destined for?

Bob

That will be used for a work bench area that will incorporate a homemade spray booth for airbrushing, and the rest will be for more under the layout storage for storing cars and locomotives. 

Mark Boyce posted:

Chris,

You have certainly made great progress!  You will have a nice long run for trains!

Thanks Mark, yeah it will be a nice run.  Starting on the track next week...can't wait. 

Well done!

I follow this thread since the beginning; it's for me an instructive experience of woodworking; this layout can only be fantastic, really! I'm waiting for what's next.....with impatience....!

jpv in France

jpv69 posted:

I follow this thread since the beginning; it's for me an instructive experience of woodworking; this layout can only be fantastic, really! I'm waiting for what's next.....with impatience....!

jpv in France

Thank you.  It's been a lot of fun...

wowie, that's become quite the layout space!

Thank you, yeah it's becoming a monster..lol...

N&W Class J posted:

Thank you, yeah it's becoming a monster..lol...

Cookin' right along there, N&W 611!

What is the radius (if two tracks = radii) of this turn at the end of the long hall?

Thanks,

MF

D&H Penn Division Layout in P48

Penn Division posted:

Cookin' right along there, N&W 611!

What is the radius (if two tracks = radii) of this turn at the end of the long hall?

Thanks,

MF

D&H Penn Division Layout in P48

Thank you, it's 60".  Smaller than I would like but that's what the space will allow. 

N&W Class J posted:

Thank you, it's 60".  Smaller than I would like but that's what the space will allow. 

Now and then a man's hands are tied, and he must do whatever it takes to realize success!

MF

Penn Division posted:

Now and then a man's hands are tied, and he must do whatever it takes to realize success!

MF

Very true.  I like the challenges of building a layout and I enjoy the process.  Now compared to the work you are doing it pales in comparison...and I must say that I really enjoy the work/modeling you are doing...inspiring to say the least.

You don't mess around, Chris! Looking great! 

You're so right, Penn Division's work is world class! 

N&W Class J posted:

Very true.  I like the challenges of building a layout and I enjoy the process.  Now compared to the work you are doing it pales in comparison...and I must say that I really enjoy the work/modeling you are doing...inspiring to say the least.

Chris,

Thanks so much for the accolades about my work. But don't sell yourself short my friend, you're doing just fine!

MF

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

You're so right, Penn Division's work is world class! 

Most kind, Santiago, but you're no slouch. That CB&Q motive power of yours is nothing to turn your nose up at...great stuff.

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

You're so right, Penn Division's work is world class! 

It truly is!  And thank you, no playing around here.

Penn Division posted:

Chris,

Thanks so much for the accolades about my work. But don't sell yourself short my friend, you're doing just fine!

MF

Thank you, I really appreciate it. 

Santiago, Penn Division is right, your work on those CB&Q units is spectacular!

Many thanks, guys. 

WOW!!! Your layout benchwork is AMAZING!!!

My total layout area is 25'x50',with 2'7" shelves in width on the north 44' run that will house my yard & a few industries. The shelf is 37&1/2" high from the floor. The east end has 2'5" wide shelves,same approximate height. I have about a 10' run of shelves 3' wide on the south end then it's water works,i.e. sump pump,water heater,etc.,then I have about another 16' run of shelves 3' wide finishing up the south wall. The shelves on the west end are 3' deep but I can only run about another 10' on that end as desks & furniture take up the rest of that run. So I plan about a 44' run on the north end of the basement,then make a 50' radius curve heading south. I plan to use the south shelf mentioned last for a short industry. The south shelfs will house something. I plan on making a straight run east & west that'll house mainline tracks. My basement's full,but I'll work "over" the obstacles as lumber becomes available.

My "thing" here in my area,is that it looks "cramped" compared to yours,Chris,and I thought you had a shorter area,correct me if I'm wrong. What am I missing? I'm trying to view my layout from my mind's eye while you have a table top laid out. 10 60' grain hoppers fill up a yard track & it makes me think O is going to look "out of place" in  my area. Am I just being paranoid?

Al Hummel

Alan Hummel posted:

WOW!!! Your layout benchwork is AMAZING!!!

Thank you, it's been a project but I'm very happy with it.

My total layout area is 25'x50',with 2'7" shelves in width on the north 44' run that will house my yard & a few industries. The shelf is 37&1/2" high from the floor. The east end has 2'5" wide shelves,same approximate height. I have about a 10' run of shelves 3' wide on the south end then it's water works,i.e. sump pump,water heater,etc.,then I have about another 16' run of shelves 3' wide finishing up the south wall. The shelves on the west end are 3' deep but I can only run about another 10' on that end as desks & furniture take up the rest of that run. So I plan about a 44' run on the north end of the basement,then make a 50' radius curve heading south. I plan to use the south shelf mentioned last for a short industry. The south shelfs will house something. I plan on making a straight run east & west that'll house mainline tracks. My basement's full,but I'll work "over" the obstacles as lumber becomes available.

Sounds like a good plan that should offer some really nice modeling.

My "thing" here in my area,is that it looks "cramped" compared to yours,Chris,and I thought you had a shorter area,correct me if I'm wrong. What am I missing? I'm trying to view my layout from my mind's eye while you have a table top laid out. 10 60' grain hoppers fill up a yard track & it makes me think O is going to look "out of place" in  my area. Am I just being paranoid?

Paranoid?...No, it tells me that you're thinking.  O Scale will definitely chew up space quickly and as such some "modifications" are in order.  In my case I won't be running 100 hoppers full of coal with a Y6 and a Class A on the point with a Y6 pusher,  maybe 30 hoppers on a good day...it will look the part.  I don't think you'll have anything to worry about with your set up.  If need be widen a shelf by a few inches here and there, play with the design a bit in relation to the operations you wish to have.  My tabletop portion is for a bit of a yard and a engine servicing area and is roughly 30 feet long and about 6 feet in depth so it will work well.  The overall length of the layout is 44 feet by 23 feet.  I am also incorporating areas where I can expand in the future if I choose.

Al Hummel

Al,

I agree with Chris; I think you will be fine, and am glad you are thinking it through.  I think you have plenty of space for the rolling stock you want to run.

Now, if you look at my topic that I have a link to in my signature (I'm on the iPhone now, or I would put a link here) I weighed the options, and decided against designing a plan that would let me run my Premier J 611 and 18" passenger cars.  My space is only 11 1/2 ft x 11 1/2 ft.  I even decided against running my J on my Ceiling Central RR in the next room, not because I was afraid of it falling off the track, but because I was afraid of dropping it when on a ladder trying to place it on and off the track.  The cars were sold last week, and I'm going to sell the J as well.  I don't have money to leave several hundred dollars just sitting on the shelf.  Ha ha!!

Again, I think you have the space like Chris said for your plans.

Well tonight I began organizing all the cr@!...er stuff I have so hopefully now I can figure out what I have and what I need to get...  Also began cutting down the homasote in to manageable sized sections.

I'm green with envy, layout and parts repair in the same place. I had to laugh, viewing your last pictures on a small kindle screen, I thought a few empty brewski bottles had made the scene.... on closer inspection, mega steam!

hokie71 posted:

I'm green with envy, layout and parts repair in the same place. I had to laugh, viewing your last pictures on a small kindle screen, I thought a few empty brewski bottles had made the scene.... on closer inspection, mega steam!

Lol....there were a few bottles...just out of camera view...  Yeah it works well, I have a chair that is the perfect height for working there...no bending required.

I am assuming the introductory run when finished will be a J, maybe the Pocahontas special?

Have to do some planning for the  grand opening!

Possibly...or a nice coal drag headed by a Y6b.....started putting roadbed down today.

I have begun installing the cork roadbed on the layout.  I am using staples to hold it down until the glue drys and then I come back and pull them out so that I can sand down any uneven spots in the cork...not many but there are a few.