Mark, your such a great husband ! A six foot lift out would be kind of heavy, but doable! LOL
Yes it would be heavy unless it was just a bridge. Still unwieldy, I think. I’m not very agile.
Mark Boyce posted:Yes it would be heavy unless it was just a bridge. Still unwieldy, I think. I’m not very agile.
LOL Me either Mark!
Dave, thank you for your help. I agree, it would work out fine.
Dave, I only got a chance at the computer right now to download the new file. Yes, I struggled for a long time to get that track join, and it evaded me until I ran out of time. I like the shortened file name too!! It is now the latest and greatest!!! Thank you again!
Mark.......I love it!
Peter
Thank you Peter!
While I am on here I will say I was just organizing my collection of prototype photographs of the area (old rails and current bike trail). In the near future, I will post photographs and point out what areas of the layout will correspond with them. This will be loosely based on the real Blackwater Canyon from Parsons up to Thomas. Now with added room, I can simulate the run from Parsons over to Elkins; Elkins being the partially hidden loop underneath Thomas, the town on the hillside. More to come. 
Hey Mark - I like the new plan and bigger room a lot. The big yard will make a huge difference for your railroad. Can't wait to see how things develop. I have plans (OK dreams) to add a yard and reversing loop one day. I would prefer to keep more engines and rolling stock out on the layout since I like to change up stuff frequently. I just have to approach the CEO with the right story.
Bob
Bob, Thank you. I like the yard as well. Last year Dave proposed some yard tracks under the one turnback loop. Some folks advised it would be hard to get to to place cars on and off, which I agreed. Having it right out in the open is great!
Always glad to help Mark.
like the new layout plan Mark, looks good !!
Thank you, Brian!
Got myself mixed up there. I didn't realize I was posting in Richie's thread, so I'm back to the right thread with the latest version. I also made a minor change to the upper loop because I thought it was too close to the lower loop and I was afraid there wasn't enough room for a wall/cliff when landscaping.
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Dave, yes it is easy to get sidetracked onto a different topic. I know I have done it before too! The extra room between the upper and lower loops is much better indeed! I do like the difference for the yard lead! Thank you!
I added a 3D view and made a slight change to the file, so download it again to get the latest version.
I see Mike's file, Dave. I think you are as mixed up as me when I try to work on two things at the same time.
Thank you for your efforts!!!
Mike, Mark, same, same. I think it's fixed.
Mark"
How wide are your main line curves? I'm very glad for you that you have additional space! I'm trying to understand the drawing and space. Also, I don't like the yard in the middle of the layout. Too me it makes the rest of the layout look smaller, because the track is just circling the yard. Still, that may be the "best" option given the space. I do like the run and reverse at each "end." Maybe give the yard area some more thought?
The curves are all O42 and the switches are a combination of Ross #4 and Ross/Gar Graves O42 because of their respective footprints. The defining factor is that Mark doesn't want to have to duck under for access hatches, climb on the layout, etc. As earlier versions showed, the yard started alongside the passing siding, but that interfered with the reach along the back wall. And the yard was just a thought to avoid using drawers to store all his rolling stock.
John, Thank you for your comments. I do agree the yard is right in the middle of things. I see many layouts where modelers have a yard on a peninsula in the middle, like this, but I think their focus is usually not the same as mine, where I want to focus on a train winding through small towns and climbing the mountain. Dave's comment above shows he has a good concept of what I am thinking; and the drawbacks in my mind of some other designs, one being the construction of or purchase of some kind of drawer system for rolling stock. He first proposed a yard on the main table parallel to the blue track, but that proved too deep to reach the pink track for re-railing and detail work. One thing to keep in mind is, I don't like handling engines and rolling stock. With my arthritis, I seem to break off the details I love, and am afraid of dropping an engine. If I had room for larger curves, and thus larger steam locomotives, I don't know if I would get any regardless. A scale 4-8-4 was so awkward and heavy, I was afraid I would drop it, so I sold it. One other negative of the yard in this position is that it makes for a big obstacle for following a train with a remote in hand. One thought is, since I have had success with the roll-out section, to make the yard detachable and roll it out into the 36" reserved walkway once I am running a train. That may prove to not be feasible when I want to change trains when operating, but it is an idea.
I sort of view the stacked "run and reverse" as an open "staging" area like what is hidden on many layouts. I could park a train there while running another. Yes, if I don't hand swap out cars, it will be the same train running back again, but If we design something like that, it will take up too much space and shorten an improved but still short run. I know, that is the spot talked about for drawers with rolling stock to swap out.
Another Forum member emailed me with an idea for a variation drawn on paper and sent as a .pdf, since he uses a different application than SCARM. I fiddled with the idea adapting one of Dave's recent versions, and am not ready to post here. He has a slightly different concept, which I am not sure I want, but why not draw it out and see what it looks like? I'll post that when it is ready with my comments and he can comment as will if he desires.
As always, I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you.
Mark
Good luck on the the possible expansion. I like the yard where it is. It makes it easier to work with adding cars / engines.
The new plan looks great, Mark.
I found these pictures and few others on this informative site on the Blackwater Canyon: http://www.wvbike.org/bct/history.html You probably know most of it or have been to the site, but I thought I would share with others that are interested. It is a great section of railroad to model and I think your plan will allow you to capture the essence of the railroad running through a beautiful section of God's creation.
Marty, Thank you! You stated the big plus of having the yard there I think. Ease of use. The older we get, the more that becomes a factor that we desire. As Dave knows, at almost 62, arthritis and just bad knees from crawling around on the floor too many years in power and telecom facilities have taken their toll! 
The desk job the last 10 years was a God send!
JD, That is a wonderful site indeed! Thank you for posting!! It is a beautiful section of God's creation indeed!!! I can't recall seeing a photograph of the coaling facility at Thomas before. I added these to my collection that I hope to post from this weekend. I was Thomas back in 1993-95 with two pre-school daughters in tow, and again last August. The recent trip we only spent a few hours one afternoon. We didn't go down to the yard area this time, I just looked from the street. My wife's knees are far worse than mine. I had wanted to bicycle it at sometime, but I will have to wait until retirement to get the knee replacement.
When I post photographs in order of where they fit on the layout plan, I think I will rename my topic title. No longer "130 Square Foot Room!"
I am really overwhelmed that there are 35 members following this topic! I really thank everyone for taking a look even if you don't post any comments!! 
I made a small change to the yard to give better access to the lower left.
Jan
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Jan, I have been thinking of this, and I love it!!
Now, one question, is it better to try to fit the yard lead in as I show circled in red, try to use both as a wye, or use it as Jan shows it.
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I'd vote for the wye track... 
like the yard this way better...
I tried it that way once and liked it, but felt it narrowed the aisles too much. It makes them less than 24" all the way around and that depends on whether or not Mark expands the decking to the full 30". Here's what it would look like with the decking at 30". I certainly think it looks better, but the original orientation has 2 larger areas for moving around. I would probably build it this way, but I'd probably operate from the entrance and only use the aisles to fix problems.
I also like Mark's idea to make it mobile, so it could be moved out of the way for maintenance and landscape work.
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I also think a wye leading into the yard is a good idea. However, there is not enough room without rearranging the main lines. You need 84" of straight track for an O43 wye.
Jan
Nix the peninsula idea. Nix the wye.
Put the yard along the bottom wall between the main lines. where you have plenty of length.
Jan, I am sure you are right about the wye,
CTR, here is not quite what you are suggesting, but similar width. It makes the shelf 42" wide. Now I'm sure we could narrow it some, maybe even 36, but not down to 30" which I was shooting for. Also, I was hoping for some horizontal separation between the two main line tracks. Yes, there will be vertical separation.
However, it is a good idea, because then there would be space to move around. With the peninsula like Jan made it, the aisles are narrow, but I am skinny for almost 62 years old, but I don't want a heavier visitor to feel he or she couldn't squeeze in.
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I like the parallel yard too, but I guess deciding what space limitations one can live with is key? I'm going back to following along...
Mark,
What about putting the yard in between the two main lines rather than "above" them ?
Mark- I like the yard in the middle with a Wye connection to the mains. This gives you better access to the yard and a bonus spot to turn trains around. Your call on the narrow isles though.
A smaller yard on the bottom as @ctr suggests would be an option. I know it would sacrifice scenery that you were planning but the trade off of wider aisles may be worth it. The yard tracks could be longer so you may wind up with the same linear footage of track.
I don't have SCARM on my computer at work but if you swap the main and passing siding (purple lines) so the main is on the top edge, then the yard may work. I'm sure Dave can whip up a plan for us to look at.
Bob
Richie C. posted:Mark,
What about putting the yard in between the two main lines rather than "above" them ?
good idea
Really enjoying all the iterations to this layout!
This may have been suggested before but is there enough room to start the yard lead at the tunnel entrance and slope it down so the yard can be located below the passing siding? And maybe even below the loop on the right?
DoubleDAZ posted:Here's a version with the yard on the main decking.
Me LIKEY!
